Matthewmatosis - The Last of us Part II Review

YukiroCTX · Aug 1, 2020

The Bear said:
I agree that the plot has way too many contrivances that feel forced. Ellie forgetting the map being the worst one.

Map was ok. She dropped the map because she got surprised by Owen when wanting to use the map to point out where Abby was and she was too focused on the realization she killed Mel after and got taken away by Jessie and Tommy.

Kinthey said:
I think part of the problem here is that while in cut scenes Ellie isn't Joel, she absolutely is as much of a killer when we're playing her, ruthlessly slitting the throats of hundreds of people without breaking a sweat.

She is ruthless but again, part of the journey was because of imitation as well, she's so invested in Joel's killers doesn't think much beyond that when things take an unexpected turn, it hits her hard as to realizing consequences. Mel for example, hits her hard because of Dina similar situation but she didn't really take the time process what is actually happening around her with these pointed out earlier because of how driven she was (reason why she splits with Jessie to find Abby instead of Tommy). Owen and Mel didn't want this to happen as she hears the conversation of them arguing too which makes their fates worse. The game design for which the A.I are aggressively violent, For example, first time you encounter either WLF or Spherites or the ending ones, they're hostile to players making the contrast of Mel and Owen's death apparent. I don't think the dissonance is as great as it appears.

OmniStrife · Aug 1, 2020

yuoke said:
Yea it really is. I guess this story is such a jump up from any standard game story they just aren't used to it or something.

Oh please...

Kinthey · Aug 1, 2020

Cerulean_skylark said:
Left Behind was filled with flashback scenes.

One thing he dislikes about the flashbacks is how they're always a reset and now force the player to engage in a scenario completely removed from the main story. I'd say Left behind works a lot better in that regard as all the flashbacks are continuous and form their own separate story line.

spman2099 · Aug 1, 2020

Ryuji said:
Ah yes, the mortality of Ellie, murderer of hundreds without batting an eye.

To be fair, many of those murders were your choice. Many of the enemies are avoidable and you can stealth past a large number of them.

Also, while Ellie is definitely on the rampage, and it is difficult to justify her level of bloodlust as she progressively goes further and further down a very dark path, the people she is "murdering" do tend to attack her first and are, by and large, fascists or zealots. It is hard to feel too much pity for these individuals.

Crossing Eden · Aug 1, 2020

Ryuji said:
"They disagree with me, they must not have understood it". Have you seen the whole review by the way?

Yes I watched the whole review where he mentions that the game should've honored Ellie's anger after switching back to her and that her whole journey meant nothing when it's the exact opposite. On top of listing "the dialogue said that this character who had been bedridden for two days should've acted like a competent killer"

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

I just have so little idea why Naughty Dog created this massive cast of characters they don't remotely care about.

It makes Ellie come off as so much more psychotic that she's so obsessed with Joel compared to literally every other human.

She flat out never mentions Riley.

Lev gets one scene to feel bad about killing his mom, one scene to feel bad about his sister dying, and then is immediately enslaved and we never have any scenes with him afterwards.

Just such a terrible idea to have all these characters the game treats like shit just to move Ellie's plot of being the guy from Hatred along.

Tophat Jones · Aug 1, 2020

My dumbass is in the wrong thread.

Capra · Aug 1, 2020

It's not even a negative review. He stresses that this is just his read and that the story didn't land for him but that it's still a good game with phenomenal animation, music, and voice work. He doesn't pretend to have the definitive opinion on the ending or anything, he just gives his reasons for why it didn't land with him.

People here are acting like he belongs in the garbage pile with all the other garbage people who didn't like the game because MUH JOEL

MillionIII · Aug 1, 2020

Ryuji said:
Ah yes, the mortality of Ellie, murderer of hundreds without batting an eye.

The world of tlou is filled with murderers, if we take into consideration that living in this world means killing people then we can't draw that as a conclusion if a character has morals or a "code", to young characters like Ellie and Lev in the first and second game killing is like eating or sleeping, they are unfazed by it. I think that the setting of the apocalypse helps with characters like Elle, which yes in the real world she would look crazy but to them it's justifiable.

Deleted member 679 · Aug 1, 2020

If anyone is interested in another negative review, even if just to reinforce that the reason people dislike it is exactly why they love it, I really enjoyed Writing on Game's take on this game:

Be warned, he's a lot more bothered by the game's structure than I think most players, even those who disliked the game. So if disagreeing with any point is a deal breaker, don't watch it.

John Dunbar said:
i have not played the game yet so i can't say anything about it specifically, but can people not find different themes and messages in games than others do, including ones not intended by the designers? otherwise criticism itself would be rather pointless.

They MUST believe that they can, because they're doing so themselves. Neil Druckmann mentioned that the ending Matthew wants (and I disagree with) was actually the original ending for more than half of the game's development.

I should say that for more than 50 percent of the production, Ellie used to kill Abby at the end. Which gave a whole different kind of feel to the ending, and then another character would have to stop the cycle of violence. But at some point, through our conversations about Yara and Lev, we came to the realization that it wasn't as honest to Ellie's character that way. Deep down inside there's goodness there. Hopefully she can go forward and build her life.

Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross Open Up About the Biggest Twists of ‘The Last of Us Part II’

After years of secrecy, Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross sit down for a spoiler-filled interview about video games' most ambitious story.

www.indiewire.com

Also, this quote, about the game's themes:

We can make you experience this thirst for revenge. This thirst for retribution and having you actually, like, commit the acts of finding it and then showing you the other side to make you regret it. To make you feel dirty for everything you've done in the game, making you realise "I'm actually the villain of the story."

The Last Of Us Part II: how Neil Druckmann made a masterpiece amidst catastrophe

The Last Of Us Part II is the most ambitious project ever seen on PlayStation 4

www.gq-magazine.co.uk

Or maybe Neil Druckmann didn't get it. And only started to get it, but still failed, halfway through development.

ClickyCal' · Aug 1, 2020

Chromie said:
Great!

I don't mean that sarcastically.

Okay watched it, and I still fundamentally disagree completely about what he said about Ellie killing Abby. Don't agree at all about the flashbacks beind bad. Don't agree about "contrivances". Marlene anyone? Ellie just had a severe panic attack. Of course she left the map. Plus the first game is full of contrivances. Also with him saying the Abby vs Ellie fight should just be a cutscene.

His opinion though, not much else to say, other than basically disagree about a ton of what he said about the story aspect.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Why would Ellie killing Abby violate the themes of TLOU2? Ellie is a psychopath who has no redeeming qualities. Her killing Abby, going back home and still feeling like shit, and then shooting herself probably fits better with the character and world.

Just no to all of that.

KOfLegend said:
Wether you agree or disagree with his take on the game and the story (I personally agree with some of it and disagree with some of it), immediately dismissing one of Matthew's videos, when he's one of the few Youtubers that constantly delivers incredibly well put together Essays/Analysis/Reviews, is...really fucking weird, in my opinion.

I honestly never heard of him before.

Rainy · Aug 1, 2020

Tophat Jones said:
We're learning a lot about the Jazz and Pelicans today that was unclear on Thursday.

Listen, even ND couldn't help the Jazz and Pelicans.

En-ou · Aug 1, 2020

spman2099 said:
I am going to have to give this a watch later. I am interested to hear what he has to say on TLOU2.

Considering how you conducted yourself in a number of TLOU2 discussions, I am not sure you are on firm enough footing to call people out on bad faith arguments...

What? Lol
I'm calling facts.
Besides, I love the game. It can use improvements but great game and must play in my book.

Kinthey · Aug 1, 2020

I think it's a bit weird that people treat Ellie killing Abby as such an impossibility when this was how the story ended for about half of the game's development..

Edit: ah Gbraga with the quotes :)

En-ou · Aug 1, 2020

Kegels said:
or the opposite with people who didnt like the game skipping to the end of reviews hoping reviewers are on their side

i didnt love the game and stopped engaging with the content/reviews a while ago, but im surprised literally nothing has changed in the weeks since. also surprised reviews are still being posted right now where it just feels late to me, would make more sense a few months down the line when feelings have settled and maybe they've revisited the first game over and really mulled over the two

Yes, there are those like that too. The opposite side.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

MillionIII said:
The world of tlou is filled with murderers, if we take into consideration that living in this world means killing people then we can't draw that as a conclusion if a character has morals or a "code", to young characters like Ellie and Lev in the first and second game killing is like eating or sleeping, they are unfazed by it. I think that the setting of the apocalypse helps with characters like Elle, which yes in the real world she would look crazy but to them it's justifiable.

Yes, the world of TLOU is intensely stupid and silly, but this does not really help make Ellie a non-terrible character.

Crossing Eden · Aug 1, 2020

I watched the video before making that post so those of you who feel validated by the dude who put
"the dialogue indicated came before the plot point where the pregnant woman, aka the person Ellie literally stopped her revenge quest for because she needed medical attention, should've been a competent killer in response to watching her girlfriend get murdered," or "it never comes up again that Owen saved a seraphite."

narrator's note: He literally asks the two seraphites that he stopped his dog from mauling to come with him and him telling Abby that story was the one of the reasons she went to go save Lev and Yara.

in his list of problems with the story can stop quoting me with accusations of not watching the video. Kthx. 😃 👍

Azzanadra · Aug 1, 2020

Gbraga said:
If anyone is interested in another negative review, even if just to reinforce that the reason people dislike it is exactly why they love it, I really enjoyed Writing on Game's take on this game:

Be warned, he's a lot more bothered by the game's structure than I think most players, even those who disliked the game. So if disagreeing with any point is a deal breaker, don't watch it.

Eh, as someone who liked the game I thought the Matthewmatosis review was great, but I saw the "Writing on Games" one a few weeks back and thought it was bad.

In general, I think a lot of these "videogame essayists" on youtube are grifters aside from Matthewmatosis, Superbunnyhop, Noah Gervais-Caldwell, and Hbomberguy.

EDIT: If you're looking for more genuine and well-thought out critical pieces on this game, Carolyn Petit's piece was good.

KOfLegend · Aug 1, 2020

Azzanadra said:
In general, I think a lot of these "videogame essayists" on youtube are grifters aside from Matthewmatosis, Superbunnyhop, Noah, and Hbomberguy.

I'd add Joseph Anderson to that list, as well.

Micael · Aug 1, 2020

MillionIII said:
The world of tlou is filled with murderers, if we take into consideration that living in this world means killing people then we can't draw that as a conclusion if a character has morals or a "code", to young characters like Ellie and Lev in the first and second game killing is like eating or sleeping, they are unfazed by it. I think that the setting of the apocalypse helps with characters like Elle, which yes in the real world she would look crazy but to them it's justifiable.

If killing is like eating and sleeping then it makes even less sense for her to not kill Abby at the end, after all what is one more death when killing is nothing, it is not like Ellie gets to hash it out with Abby and gets to see her as a person.

One can't have it both ways, either killing is significant and it makes one a monster, or it doesn't, either way given the previous actions from Ellie, I would say it is not a crazy far fetch idea to wonder why wouldn't Ellie just kill Abby after all the atrocities she has committed already.

Dodgerfan74 · Aug 1, 2020

Gbraga said:
If anyone is interested in another negative review, even if just to reinforce that the reason people dislike it is exactly why they love it, I really enjoyed Writing on Game's take on this game:

Be warned, he's a lot more bothered by the game's structure than I think most players, even those who disliked the game. So if disagreeing with any point is a deal breaker, don't watch it.

They MUST believe that they can, because they're doing so themselves. Neil Druckmann mentioned that the ending Matthew wants (and I disagree with) was actually the original ending for more than half of the game's development.

Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross Open Up About the Biggest Twists of ‘The Last of Us Part II’

After years of secrecy, Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross sit down for a spoiler-filled interview about video games' most ambitious story.

www.indiewire.com

Also, this quote, about the game's themes:

The Last Of Us Part II: how Neil Druckmann made a masterpiece amidst catastrophe

The Last Of Us Part II is the most ambitious project ever seen on PlayStation 4

www.gq-magazine.co.uk

Or maybe Neil Druckmann didn't get it. And only started to get it, but still failed, halfway through development.

Yeah, that last quote is why the game didn't work for me. The second the game cuts away from Abby and Ellie in the theater, it is 100% obvious that's what they're going for which cheapens it and makes it harder to pull off. It doesn't help they do an uninspiring job of it. All of Abby's crew are paper thin cliches. Mel could have been replaced by a cardboard cutout that just says pregnant lady. Ellie shaking after killing Nora had way more emotional impact than anything about Nora and/or her story or character. I'm surprised they didn't force you to play as Nora in a dog petting mission for half an hour.

It's great to see devs take risks. It's less great when they reopen an all-time great ending and kind of fumble through the follow-up.

Crossing Eden · Aug 1, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Yes, the world of TLOU is intensely stupid

We live in an age of social media where people refuse to wear masks during a deadly pandemic just to spite another side of the political spectrum. Like, I genuinely don't know how anyone can say the world of the last of us is intensely stupid when real people act 10000x more cartoonishly evil.

criteriondog · Aug 1, 2020

I liked TLOU II a lot, but I don't think it's perfect game. I have a few flaws with it. But I see a lot of people early in this thread just skimmed to the end so they could defend the game, ten minutes into the thread being made despite the video being 37 minutes long.

It's okay for others to have different perspective on things and not agree with you.

Watch the whole thing people. It's okay to not agree with every single point of someone else's review, or even a major point. It's their opinion.

Eeyore · Aug 1, 2020

Rainy said:
Listen, even ND couldn't help the Jazz and Pelicans.

Josh Hart couldn't even help the Pelicans :/

spman2099 · Aug 1, 2020

I'm only half-way through the video, but he does make some good points about how the player interacts with the world and how dependent on scripted moments the game is. It isn't a problem for me at all, but I can see his point, at least.

That being said, I think the narrative sequences are extremely powerful in The Last of Us Part 2. I think if you were to lose them it would hurt the game deeply. Though, to his credit, I do think he is right that these are (at least partially) the reason for the pacing issues.

ClickyCal' · Aug 1, 2020

Micael said:
If killing is like eating and sleeping then it makes even less sense for her to not kill Abby at the end, after all what is one more death when killing is nothing, it is not like Ellie gets to hash it out with Abby and gets to see her as a person.

One can't have it both ways, either killing is significant and it makes one a monster, or it doesn't, either way given the previous actions from Ellie, I would say it is not a crazy far fetch idea to wonder why wouldn't Ellie just kill Abby after all the atrocities she has committed already.

Because she finally understood what Joel did at the hopsital, out of pure fatherly love. It took until there to get that she was doing the same.

Deleted member 679 · Aug 1, 2020

Azzanadra said:
Eh, as someone who liked the game I thought the Matthewmatosis review was great, but I saw the "Writing on Games" one a few weeks back and thought it was bad.

In general, I think a lot of these "videogame essayists" on youtube are grifters aside from Matthewmatosis, Superbunnyhop, Noah Gervais-Caldwell, and Hbomberguy.

EDIT: If you're looking for more genuine and well-thought out critical pieces on this game, Carolyn Petit's piece was good.

Thank you, I'll read it.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
We live in an age of social media where people refuse to wear masks during a deadly pandemic just to spite another side of the political spectrum. Like, I genuinely don't know how anyone can say the world of the last of us is intensely stupid when real people act 10000x more cartoonishly evil.

Evil in real life is largely about passive aggressiveness and laziness.

Isaac decides he's going to gun down his best soldier during the middle of the last major battle of his war because he wants to shoot a child who weighs 50 pounds and could easily be tied up.

nonoriri · Aug 1, 2020

Azzanadra said:
Eh, as someone who liked the game I thought the Matthewmatosis review was great, but I saw the "Writing on Games" one a few weeks back and thought it was bad.

In general, I think a lot of these "videogame essayists" on youtube are grifters aside from Matthewmatosis, Superbunnyhop, Noah Gervais-Caldwell, and Hbomberguy.

EDIT: As far as more critical discourse for this game's go, Carolyn Petit's piece was good.

I've never heard of this dude before this post and his review was... fine enough, I guess. I feel like it missed the mark in ways that I can't really understand but I think there was thought there and it's well written as a review.

But Carolyn Petit's article is extremely good and it's frustrating how the YT video game essayists are pretty much overwhelmingly white and male and I'm kinda tired of it. I get why queer people and women don't platform on YT but it makes me sad. I feel like I would have loved to see a video essay of what Petit wrote. I think it's an extremely interesting angle of critique that I have not seen addressed by most YTers.

King Dodongo · Aug 1, 2020

Brat-Sampson said:
Matthewmatosis: around 10 mins of complex thoughts on why Ellie not killing Abbey didn't ring true for him personally.

Posters who haven't watched any of said minutes: Obviously he didn't understand the game.

"He didn't say at the end that it had become his GOTG, therefore this guy doesn't understand anything and I refuse to watch his videos ever again"

Holundrian · Aug 1, 2020

Azzanadra said:
Eh, as someone who liked the game I thought the Matthewmatosis review was great, but I saw the "Writing on Games" one a few weeks back and thought it was bad.

In general, I think a lot of these "videogame essayists" on youtube are grifters aside from Matthewmatosis, Superbunnyhop, Noah Gervais-Caldwell, and Hbomberguy.

EDIT: If you're looking for more genuine and well-thought out critical pieces on this game, Carolyn Petit's piece was good.

Solid read thanks for sharing. I wish more stuff like that was more popular instead of the shoddiness that gets pumped out to the MC aggregator on embargo.

Aerial51 · Aug 1, 2020

KOfLegend said:
I'd add Joseph Anderson to that list, as well.

I used to like him, still watch most of his Videos though, but he literally takes forever to get his Point across, and uses way too much Time to explain things the Viewer should already know when they decide to watch a spoilerfilled Review. I didn't bother with his Witcher Video. 4 Hours for a single Game is just straight up insane.
The Dudes Reviews have more Filler then Shounen Anime

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

My favorite part of TLOU2 is where Nora snitches on her friends under torture but apparently never tries to save her friends by telling Ellie that Joel killed Abby's dad and it tore her up for years.

Because the game is Nier Gestalt but everyone speaks the same language so everyone has to be a moron for there to be misunderstandings like in Nier Gestalt.

And if Ellie knows that Joel killed Abby's father, she looks like more of a psychopath.

And if Ellie knows Mel is pregnant, she looks like more of a psychopath.

So no one ever says anything at any point so that Ellie can look slightly better than God of War 2 Kratos.

Crossing Eden · Aug 1, 2020

spman2099 said:
I'm only half-way through the video, but he does make some good points about how the player interacts with the world and how dependent on scripted moments the game is. It isn't a problem for me at all, but I can see his point, at least.

He in general has always had an intense dislike for games that were more on the cinematic side. Especially during last gen where it was nearly impossible to truly express yourself as a player or for stories to naturally create themselves as a result of systems interacting. In general he wanted a more systemic game than TLOU can really end up being without, even more of a huge crunch for the studio. I've seen the same complaint raised about how this game is way more generous with resources. However I think that misses the point of the entire war subplot. Seattle, and cities like it, were DANGEROUS, for years. And still are. And thanks to that, once little pockets of societies start forming the cities are the richest when it comes to resources. The seraphites aren't just fighting in the name of their martyr they want those resources too. Now if the majority of the game took place in the suburbs I'd understand the complaint that things are too plentiful.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
My favorite part of TLOU2 is where Nora snitches on her friends under torture but apparently never tries to save her friends by telling Ellie that Joel killed Abby's dad and it tore her up for years.

"Think about how many people are dead because of him."

AllChan7 · Aug 1, 2020

Overall its a well written review. But I disagree with a majority of it and him wanting Ellie to kill Abby. I think some contrivances are fair criticisms but others feel like nitpicks. And the ending was 100% honest to Ellie's character imo since she regained her humanity and learned to forgive Joel. Had she killed Abby, she'd still have PTSD, be a rekt and likely feel empty. Killing Abby would have done nothing to help her and what she was going through. I get that Ellie killed 100s but every time it was in self defense since Seraphites and WLF were gonna kill her on sight.

I can understand why some feel letdown by the cast of characters but most the characters feel human and real enough for me to buy their motivations. Again, great review but disagree with a lot of it.

ClickyCal' · Aug 1, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
My favorite part of TLOU2 is where Nora snitches on her friends under torture but apparently never tries to save her friends by telling Ellie that Joel killed Abby's dad and it tore her up for years.

Because the game is Nier Gestalt but everyone speaks the same language so everyone has to be a moron for there to be misunderstandings like in Nier Gestalt.

And if Ellie knows that Joel killed Abby's father, she looks like more of a psychopath.

And if Ellie knows Mel is pregnant, she looks like more of a psychopath.

So no one ever says anything at any point so that Ellie can look slightly better than God of War 2 Kratos.

You just compared Ellie to Kratos....think about that for a second.

aevanhoe · Aug 1, 2020

En-ou said:
Every TLoU fanboy is skipping to the end to see if the reviewer is lavishing praise, then responding with the person doesn't understand the story etc, when it's not a 10/10, the usual.

Well, his ending does miss the point completely. There really is no inverting of character behaviour in part 2. And also, I don't like it when reviewers "suggest their own solutions" or imply they have better ones ("....what could've been a better ending") - they don't have to like what they see, of course, they can offer their reasons - but please, don't play script doctors if you want me to take you seriously.

You trivializing that opinion "TLOU fanboys who just want 10/10" is your choice, but I honestly believe this is a bad review. I've seen reviews I disagree with about my favorite games and they were fine - this one is just bad in my opinion. For some reason, people consider it meaningful - I don't see it.

Crossing Eden · Aug 1, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Evil in real life is largely about passive aggressiveness and laziness.

Isaac decides he's going to gun down his best soldier during the middle of the last major battle of his war because he wants to shoot a child who weighs 50 pounds and could easily be tied up.

Did you just assume that they had ANY intention of letting ANY seraphite survive that battle? 🤔

"Wait, fellow WLFs who have killed children. Abby's right. Let's tie this kid up."

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

yuoke said:
You just compared Ellie to Kratos....think about that for a second.

Yes, they are pretty comparable.

Holundrian · Aug 1, 2020

Aerial51 said:
I used to like him, still watch most of his Videos though, but he literally takes forever to get his Point across, and uses way too much Time to explain things the Viewer should already know when they decide to watch a spoilerfilled Review. I didn't bother with his Witcher Video. 4 Hours for a single Game is just straight up insane.
The Dudes Reviews have more Filler then Shounen Anime

The sad thing it's still more substance than something like an ign review at the end of the day.
I've been losing a bit of interest in his recent videos cause he basically summarizes the whole game throughout them, still admire the dedication to mechanically fully explore the games he does though. I think for mechanically intensive games his takes are a bit more compelling like his hollow knight video.

ClickyCal' · Aug 1, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Yes, they are pretty comparable.

No, they aren't at all.

MillionIII · Aug 1, 2020

Micael said:
If killing is like eating and sleeping then it makes even less sense for her to not kill Abby at the end, after all what is one more death when killing is nothing, it is not like Ellie gets to hash it out with Abby and gets to see her as a person.

One can't have it both ways, either killing is significant and it makes one a monster, or it doesn't, either way given the previous actions from Ellie, I would say it is not a crazy far fetch idea to wonder why wouldn't Ellie just kill Abby after all the atrocities she has committed already.

Although many people feel like the terminator when playing it, it is shown through cutscenes that this violence(torture) does indeed affects her, if Abby was just some npc then yes she would kill her without thinking twice, but it is the fact that both of those characters have a vendetta against each other is what keeps them apart and together like magnets, Ellie knows Abby and why she did what she did which makes their fight personal, it's not about putting a bullet through Abby's head anymore, it's about proving her/herself a point.

spman2099 · Aug 1, 2020

So, at one point he mentions the contrivances (which is a fair criticism, as the game does use them on occasion) and then he lists a bunch on the screen and says pause if you want to read the more complete list... but man, what he lists is really, really weak. They all feel like minor pet peeves to me and don't really present any particularly interesting criticisms. It almost feels like posting that list was a shoeshine tactic to make it seem like there were more substantial issues than there actually are. His review would have been better if he didn't include that list at all.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Aug 1, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
Did you just assume that they had ANY intention of letting ANY seraphite survive that battle? 🤔

No, Naughty Dog made Isaac comically stupid, blood-thirsty, and insane because they need Abby to be enslaved at the end of the game so Ellie can find her.

Isaac saying anything other than "my best soldier, a woman who is maybe the strongest human alive, please help me win this final battle" is pretty weird. Isaac IMMEDIATELY going to murdering her is because he's a joke character and a cartoon villain and Naughty Dog had no idea how Ellie could ever find Abby again without slavery.

Deleted member 679 · Aug 1, 2020

Aerial51 said:
I used to like him, still watch most of his Videos though, but he literally takes forever to get his Point across, and uses way too much Time to explain things the Viewer should already know when they decide to watch a spoilerfilled Review. I didn't bother with his Witcher Video. 4 Hours for a single Game is just straight up insane.
The Dudes Reviews have more Filler then Shounen Anime

HAHAHAHAHA, that is absolutely true.

As someone who never finished Witcher 1, I genuinely loved going through the whole story with him, and the ending was quite an experience, even through his video, but it is definitely true that the vast majority of his content is a recap of the games.

I don't personally mind that because I feel like they're well paced, even the longest ones, and it's an approach that I find very interesting, of going through the entire experience and commenting on each individual part.

It's not one I'd use myself, I prefer to choose a specific subject and write about it in a little more depth, but that always does mean sacrificing things I would like to talk about but can't for the sake of the text feeling more focused. Having this platform to just talk about everything in a little more depth than just a twitch reaction is pretty interesting. It does mean I skip most of his videos, though, so there's that. I need to be particularly interested in both the game and his personal thoughts about the game, I can't exactly expect to gain any new insight from it, I just have to want to see where he's coming from.

Even when he has an extreme nitpick that is completely unjustified I find it charming, in a weird way, and enjoy it.

KOfLegend · Aug 1, 2020

Aerial51 said:
I used to like him, still watch most of his Videos though, but he literally takes forever to get his Point across, and uses way too much Time to explain things the Viewer should already know when they decide to watch a spoilerfilled Review. I didn't bother with his Witcher Video. 4 Hours for a single Game is just straight up insane.
The Dudes Reviews have more Filler then Shounen Anime

I do agree that his reviews tend to be on the longer side for no reason at times, but he always has some great points imo. It's why I usually listen to his videos instead of watching them, and usually do so while I'm grinding in a video game, or cleaning up for a platinum. They're always a fun time IMO.

CloseTalker · Aug 1, 2020

The Bear said:
I agree that the plot has way too many contrivances that feel forced. Ellie forgetting the map being the worst one.

this was one of my very few beefs with the game. I had the most exhausting debate in the OT explaining why certain parts of this game were contrived, and some people were bending over so far backwards to justify how it's possible things could have plausibly happened the way they did. It was like someone watching the Final Destination movies and trying to explain how those were all believable natural causes of death.

it's really hard to engage in thoughtful good faith conversation when people feel the need to explain how every possible story issue you have is actually the brilliant way the writers wanted it, you just don't get it.

Aerial51 said:
I used to like him, still watch most of his Videos though, but he literally takes forever to get his Point across, and uses way too much Time to explain things the Viewer should already know when they decide to watch a spoilerfilled Review. I didn't bother with his Witcher Video. 4 Hours for a single Game is just straight up insane.
The Dudes Reviews have more Filler then Shounen Anime

Yeah this is fair. I stopped reading Film Crit Hulk for the same reason. The points made were all so good and well thought out, but I don't need every post to be 20,000 words. A succinct thought is a great thing

AllChan7 · Aug 1, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
My favorite part of TLOU2 is where Nora snitches on her friends under torture but apparently never tries to save her friends by telling Ellie that Joel killed Abby's dad and it tore her up for years.

Because the game is Nier Gestalt but everyone speaks the same language so everyone has to be a moron for there to be misunderstandings like in Nier Gestalt.

And if Ellie knows that Joel killed Abby's father, she looks like more of a psychopath.

And if Ellie knows Mel is pregnant, she looks like more of a psychopath.

So no one ever says anything at any point so that Ellie can look slightly better than God of War 2 Kratos.

Ellie had no idea Mel was pregnant lol
Doesn't make her look like a psychopath but it does make her look like someone suffering from a lot of guilt and frustration. Everything Ellie did was out of loyalty and love for Joel and because she lost her purpose. Ellie just needed to feel like she had a place in the world again and hunting Abby's crew down was the perfect excuse for that even though she was clearly conflicted by her actions

Micael · Aug 1, 2020

yuoke said:
Because she finally understood what Joel did at the hopsital, out of pure fatherly love. It took until there to get that she was doing the same.

I feel like there are quite a few problems with that interpretation.

For one Ellie had kind of forgiven Joel before that, so I don't imagine that part of that forgiveness didn't come from an understanding of why Joel did what he did.

Then given how long the time frame of the game is, I would argue it would have given ample time for her to reflect on it, especially since she literally went to a farm and "had a kid", something that would have likely quite helped with said realisation.

Melee fighting for one life is not a moment for deep introspection and realisation about such things, in fact it would be very hard to think in these sorts of situations.

Finally, I am not quite sure someone realising "Oh my father figure did it all for me" would have quite helped to stop from killing the person that killed said father figure, if anything it seems to me like it would really only serve to help Ellie determination to kill Abby.

aevanhoe · Aug 1, 2020

Luxorek said:
I gotta say, it's a bit comical to see Ellie avatars denigrating this review. Even funnier when you say you didn't even watch it fully and just skipped to end.

Gbraga said:
The irony of The Last of Us Part II fans being unwilling to listen to the other side.

Ryuji said:
"I skipped to the end, it doesn't align with my view on the game, they must not have understood its themes".

Claiming someone who disagrees with something is biased - and at the same time being unwilling to accept their views as valid just because they have different views.

I don't have an Ellie avatar, I watched the review fully and I am willing to listen - and still, I think this was a very poor review. Imagine that, not agreeing with something or someone without even hearing them out. Such irony, considering your posts, don't you think?

coldsagging said:
Matthew puts a hell of a lot of thought and effort into his reviews.

Chromie said:
He does an excellent job of explaining his opinions and views on a game.

I honestly don't see it. Even not taking into account I disagree (and do think he kind of missed the point of the story - but that part is subjective), he doesn't say anything that hasn't been said by critics before. No interesting angles or new analysis, it's a very average review, in my opinion.

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