[May 13, 2024] CNBC: ‘Wealth can be pretty isolating’: Problems that rich people face, according to therapists

[Sawneeks]

One study said happiness peaked at $75,000 in income. Now, economists say it's higher — by a lot.

It turns out that money can buy happiness for most people — although some may remain miserable no matter what.

www.cbsnews.com

Does Money Buy Happiness? Actually, Yes

Making more money is associated with greater happiness and life satisfaction. And contrary to prior research, there is no plateau at $75,000.

www.forbes.com

That is indeed old research by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton and it was kind of debunked or at least disagreed with by Matthew Killingsworth and Barbara Mellers that there was a cap on happiness after 75K. More research found money did improve their sense of control, security, and ability to focus on relationships until 500K a year. More money is associated with more happiness and life satisfaction. Bear in mind, they didnt get many respondents who earn millions a year, so it's not conclusive and I'll see if I can find studies for that subset. There was a minority of ultra rich people for whom the wealth didn't help their mental health (and maybe they were already suffering before the wealth "if you're rich and miserable more money won't help") like going through traumas, but for most, money did improve their well-being.

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Ah yes that does look similar! Let me take a look at both as I didn't know there was a disagreement about it. Thank you.

 

[Altairre]

The lack of sympathy is sad to see. People face all sorts of challenges in life regardless of money.

There are poor people in third world countries who look at people like us (mostly middle class in developed countries) and think how lucky we are and that we have no right to complain.

Click to shrink...

I mean everyone can complain, I'd just rather focus my efforts on improving the lives of people less fortunate than me. Doesn't mean I can't empathize with a specific individual facing these challenges in a specific situation but generally speaking this is a group I'd give a fuck about last because they have a lot more opportunities to get help than others and they are often the reason that others are suffering. Not much more to it really.

When people get upset at folks' inability to sympathize with the ultra wealthy, I instead think about how people in worse circumstances than I am likely do not sympathize with me despite also having problems myself as a human being.

And I'm okay with that.

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Pretty much. As a social worker who mainly works with refugees I generally don't expect those people to give a fuck about my personal issues considering what most of them have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

[Nepenthe]

'big' puts it strongly, more like a definite side eye.

I supposed my issue comes in that it's possible to have empathy and also understand the power dynamic and potential history at play per individual. I figured it would not be such an improbable task to expect empathy for others even in such circumstances.

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I wouldn't even share a side-eye for anyone saying "fuck the rich" because the fundamental immorality of possessing significant wealth is too great for me to ignore. Call me heartless, but I save my energy for people who are in worse circumstances, such as those who also have mental issues and yet can't afford a therapist.

 

[Dice]

I like ERA because I learn new things everyday. For instance, today I learned that mental health doesn't matter once you reach a certain wealth. /s Seriously, do fucking better than those disgusting posts, folks.

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Era's discussions about wealthy people are always super nuanced and thoughtful, I'm not sure what you mean /s

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The lack of sympathy is sad to see. People face all sorts of challenges in life regardless of money.

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Say this to a homeless person, I dare ya.
Or to the cops monitoring them and don't give a shit while letting white collar assholes go.

We've made this world about money, unfortunately. Empathy is one thing and someone genuinely struggling will have my ears and shoulder and all that; but more often I'll have a loooooong list of people to feel sorry for before someone who can literally afford some help.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

There are about a trillion and one living organisms that will long get my empathy before I shed a tear for people who don't even need to blink once at the cost of their college tuition or rent.

 

[Messofanego]

There is a difference between individuals and systems. You can have empathy for individuals and still say "fuck the rich", "eat the rich", "tax the rich", or whatever because you're against oppressive and inequal systems and masses of exploiters. Shaming people for not empathising or sympathising with the ultra rich isn't going to change the political stance.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I like ERA because I learn new things everyday. For instance, today I learned that mental health doesn't matter once you reach a certain wealth. /s Seriously, do fucking better than those disgusting posts, folks.

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Yeah no one is saying this. Everyone's mental health matters. But the context here is that we don't need an article telling us "b-b-but the rich have problems too!" when not only do we KNOW that, but we're in a world where an astonishingly high segment of the population will never have the access of means to get treatment for their own physical health, let alone mental unlike the wealthy- who can literally access the best of the best the world has to offer across all medical fields without flinching at the cost.

It's like walking into village engulfed in famine and letting them know "you know even wealthy people get hungry!". I'm sure they really needed to know that the people profiting off the existence of an impoverished class and the systems that keep them unfathomably wealthy experience hunger too.

 

[Sawneeks]

I wouldn't even share a side-eye for anyone saying "fuck the rich" because the fundamental immorality of possessing significant wealth is too great for me to ignore. Call me heartless, but I save my energy for people who are in worse circumstances, such as those who also have mental issues and yet can't afford a therapist.

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I had a reply but Messo put it better than me.

I wouldn't ever call you heartless, Nep. And I mean ultimately this is just conversation on a forum and less about putting forward actual work for people. Like, sure, if I had to put in hours and work to help people with mental health problems id also likely focus on those who don't have access normally and not the means to do so. But I'm talking more about passing comments on a forum, not real work, where empathy is a lot cheaper to give.

There is a difference between individuals and systems. You can have empathy for individuals and still say "fuck the rich", "eat the rich", "tax the rich", or whatever because you're against oppressive and inequal systems and masses of exploiters. Shaming people for not empathising or sympathising with the ultra rich isn't going to change the political stance.

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And yeah ultimately this won't change a thing lol. I mean maybe someone will be a bit more empathetic which is generally a behavior that grows the more it happens. So I'm ok with that. If not? Well at least I had something to do while I can't sleep.

 

[Sawneeks]

One study said happiness peaked at $75,000 in income. Now, economists say it's higher — by a lot.

It turns out that money can buy happiness for most people — although some may remain miserable no matter what.

www.cbsnews.com

Does Money Buy Happiness? Actually, Yes

Making more money is associated with greater happiness and life satisfaction. And contrary to prior research, there is no plateau at $75,000.

www.forbes.com

That is indeed old research by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton and it was kind of debunked or at least disagreed with by Matthew Killingsworth and Barbara Mellers that there was a cap on happiness after 75K. More research found money did improve their sense of control, security, and ability to focus on relationships until 500K a year. More money is associated with more happiness and life satisfaction. Bear in mind, they didnt get many respondents who earn millions a year, so it's not conclusive and I'll see if I can find studies for that subset. There was a minority of ultra rich people for whom the wealth didn't help their mental health (and maybe they were already suffering before the wealth "if you're rich and miserable more money won't help") like going through traumas, but for most, money did improve their well-being.

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Read over that new study and thanks again for posting it - didn't realize it was something they updated just last year!

It's interesting that general life outlook seemed to dictate whether or not more money lead to massive leaps in happiness. Being unhappy before money = less returns vs those who were in general happy before the increase. I am curious to know how they landed at the $500k number though - it seems like a compromise between the two researchers but I'm not sure why it's that number.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

I think if I were super rich and had a ridiculous lifestyle propped up only by the continued success of business ventures and the free market then I'd be paranoid about losing it all and probably be miserable.

But these people can stop. They can cash out and live a relatively normal life any time they want.

People who say money can't buy you happiness don't know where to shop.

 

[Glio]

Rich people can have mental problems and really suffer from it.

However, I am not Jesus and my empathy is finite, so I prefer to spend it on other people first.

 

[S-Wind]

Why am I not surprised that here on Era there are those who will even virtue signal for the ultra wealthy?

 

[andymoogle]

The lack of sympathy is sad to see. People face all sorts of challenges in life regardless of money.

There are poor people in third world countries who look at people like us (mostly middle class in developed countries) and think how lucky we are and that we have no right to complain.

Click to shrink...

The ultra rich are literally responsible for the destruction of the planet and wealth inequalities. Why should anyone sympathize with them? Also, their "problem" is easily solvable. Give your wealth away. Done. They have basically infinite wealth. Stop hoarding it.

Poor people vs middle class in richer countries is hardly the same. We have the same amount of power in society. Meaning none.

 

[Cudpug]

To test this theory everyone on this forum should receive 100 mill and we can see how many become sadder as a result.

 

[RaphaBE]

Yeah no one is saying this. Everyone's mental health matters. But the context here is that we don't need an article telling us "b-b-but the rich have problems too!" when not only do we KNOW that, but we're in a world where an astonishingly high segment of the population will never have the access of means to get treatment for their own physical health, let alone mental unlike the wealthy- who can literally access the best of the best the world has to offer across all medical fields without flinching at the cost.

It's like walking into village engulfed in famine and letting them know "you know even wealthy people get hungry!". I'm sure they really needed to know that the people profiting off the existence of an impoverished class and the systems that keep them unfathomably wealthy experience hunger too.

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I think your analogy would have more merit if this article was shoved down the throats of, as you put it, villagers engulfed in famine. By all accounts, ERA's demographic is well above the average in terms of income and wealth, so by that logic I suppose none of us should ever complain about anything? (And that's ignoring the fact that the article was written by professionals; not by the rich people themselves.)

Also, as others have mentioned before, nobody is saying that we should feel bad for those rich people - yet there's a difference between thinking "oh ok, whatever" and actively spouting garbage like "Eat shit, rich people" when talking about their mental health issues. In other words, it's completely fine (and normal) to have a limited amount of empathy, but does it really have to be converted into hatred?

 

[echoshifting]

There's a flattening effect that occurs in these topics that can be hard to navigate in conversation. Most folks here seem okay with some scale of wealth being achievable. We can all agree, I think, that the "ultra rich" or "super rich" class should not exist, but we might not agree on the limits. The more I have learned about billionaires, the more they seem like otherworldly beings, another species entirely. They are tough to sympathize with…even the half-a-billies, and my line probably sinks lower if I stop to think about it (a LOT lower). Anyway, my point is, I am more curious about the mental health struggles of upper crust types who still have to keep at least half an eye on the checking account, and it's frustrating that they are so often conflated with alien creatures like Elon Musk. I dare say providing someone like Musk with therapy is potentially dangerous and morally compromised. So many billionaires are manipulative sociopaths

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

There is a difference between individuals and systems. You can have empathy for individuals and still say "fuck the rich", "eat the rich", "tax the rich", or whatever because you're against oppressive and inequal systems and masses of exploiters. Shaming people for not empathising or sympathising with the ultra rich isn't going to change the political stance.

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This is where I am, related to my post before, I wonder just how many of the kids and adults grown into their ultra wealth realize their part of that vicious system and would change if they were educated in the disparity or it would make them feel better or if they're too far gone?

That being said, I also agree that it is very wrong to mock someone's mental health issues because of their wealth. Years back when Elon started to try to buy Twitter, I remember people weoponizing his possible (I don't know if he actually is or not) Autism to mock him, feeling it was okay because he was rich and a prick.

Not only did it make it clear what they actually thought of autistic people and that they turn against you if you weren't "well-behaved" but the way they acted, like making it out his autism made him a bigot, abusive and a prick was really hurtful and shitty and fell into offencive stereotyping. Same with depression or trauma when it comes to the rich, especially actors

 

[Paz]

I absolutely view mental health problems for the richest people I know as being of slightly lesser impact than those of people who are struggling to survive.

Because when you're struggling to survive you don't have the luxury of dealing with your problems, if you stop to do that your entire life can collapse.

I would apply the same logic to the ultra rich, and then some.

Physical and mental health struggles impact us all, but our ability to give those problems attention is limited by the resources we have, and that naturally changes how impactful I think of those problems as.

 

[Heroicpiglet]

pffffffff

 

[echoshifting]

This is where I am, related to my post before, I wonder just how many of the kids and adults grown into their ultra wealth realize their part of that vicious system and would change if they were educated in the disparity or it would make them feel better or if they're too far gone?

That being said, I also agree that it is very wrong to mock someone's mental health issues because of their wealth. Years back when Elon started to try to buy Twitter, I remember people weoponizing his possible (I don't know if he actually is or not) Autism to mock him, feeling it was okay because he was rich and a prick.

Not only did it make it clear what they actually thought of autistic people and that they turn against you if you weren't "well-behaved" but the way they acted, like making it out his autism made him a bigot, abusive and a prick was really hurtful and shitty and fell into offencive stereotyping. Same with depression or trauma when it comes to the rich, especially actors

Click to shrink...

While you aren't responding to me, I did just mention Musk in my post above yours and I'd like to offer a clarifying comment. He is on the spectrum and I do think he should have access to care, just like anyone. What troubles me most is the thought of ultra wealthy/powerful having access to talk therapy, which is effectively a sophisticated system to become who you want to be and to get people to do what you want them to do. The environment is totally different at that level because the patient has such undue influence over the lives of others.

To respond more directly - definitely agree with you regarding the mockery of *anyone's* mental health issues. Apologies for springboarding off your post.

 

[oofouchugh]

Get rid of your money then bitch.

 

[vrietje]

Luckely they have the money to pay a good therapist.

 

[Adventureracing]

A lot of it boils down to whether you're talking about people you know personally or groups of people. I know people in my life who are incredibly well off who have serious struggles in their life and I feel for them the same as I would anyone else.

When you're talking more broadly though I'd say I have less empathy for really rich people struggling than really poor ones. I'm not sure that's even a fair take but it's hard not to feel that way. Sure some of their struggles may be similar but ultimately one of those groups is in a far better position to do something about it.

Also when we're talking about really rich people it doesn't matter what they're going through I can't look past the inherent immorality of sitting on a great amount of wealth whilst others suffer.

 

[Maximo]

Fuck me some people actually trying to twist this, you can be rich and have mental health issues. Don't want to downplay those that do, just my mental give a fucks are better else for those who need it most. Especially those who can't even aford to get mental health services.

 

[Voytek]

Well. It's better than being poor and isolated with no access to a therapist.

 

[nsilvias]

is it that hard to downsize to a middle class neighnorhood and getting involved with the community while using your wealth to help others? unless your a notable face it seems doable unless they want cant distance themselves from lavish life

 

[UltraMav]

lol if that's the line a very large portion of Era users are the enemy

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Honestly, as someone who has been paycheck-to-paycheck and somehow incompatible with society at-large since he was 18, I do view a large portion of this site as out-of-touch and privileged.

Now, some of that may be due to my own psychological issues, but I wouldn't know; I can't afford a therapist.

 

[Amnixia]

So just donate all your money to UNICEF.

 

[Dan Thunder]

I mean really, in the current climate, that's an article you want to go with?!

 

[coldsagging]

Lol

Lmao even.

 

[Kyuuji]

Assuming they're not truly vile people then yeh, I have empathy for how rich people are affected by their mental health. I don't think someone with millions in the bank feels much better in their depression than I did, and there are certainly stresses they face that I know nothing about, much like the opposite. The main difference is I just hold more open compassion and active interest for those without immediate access to high quality systems of care that help support them through such issues.

The stark difference isn't in the mental health problems themselves, it's in accessing support for them.

 

[fragamemnon]

is it that hard to downsize to a middle class neighnorhood and getting involved with the community while using your wealth to help others? unless your a notable face it seems doable unless they want cant distance themselves from lavish life

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people in this position are either born into it and no nothing else or spend decades in the belief that they build security for themselves through building wealth and get attached to money because they rely on it for security, even when it passes any reasonable point of being sufficient for them.

Some of these people-especiallly the latter set-approach wealth not just as a tool or a means to some reasonable comfort or stability, but something they crave, love, and make central to everything they do.

For these people, yes it really is that hard for them to detach themselves from wealth, even as pursuit of it makes them incredibly unhappy and doesn't provide them any security or safety at all.

 

[Dis]

Cry me a fucking river. If having wealth is such an issue there's an easy solutions, you can easily give up that wealth. Know what's actually isolating? Being poor as fuck and struggling to get by in anyway to a point where you're always depressed, in a stressed mood and can't find the energy to get up some mornings let alone be around people.

That's a thing I've both seen plenty of times in my life with others and experienced myself during points of my life. "Can money buy happiness?" Not entirely, but it sure as shit helps. The only people who throw out that nonsense line are the ones who have money. Sorry if I'm not going to give 2 fucks about their "woe is me" cries and their therapist talking points when most poor folks can't afford to even see a therapist let alone have one throwing out this tiny violin worthy shit.

I'll continue to put my energy where it should be, on the concerns of those less fortunate than those who have a far easier ride of shit in the current capitalist hellscape we live in.

 

[Nacho Papi]

Monkey with 90 million bananas feel bad and isolated from monkey with 0.5 banana? Sad :(

 

[MazeHaze]

There are pros and cons to every situation.

Being poor

Pros: most people don't mock you for being sad

Cons: very limited access to mental health treatment for being sad, food insecurity, health problems, wear and tear on body from years of physical labor, living in an indefinite state of stress from waiting for the one catastrophe that will condemn you to being unhoused

Being Rich

Pros: you are king in the castle

Cons: people don't care when you're sad, and some people even laugh!

 

[Severance]

Maybe rich people feel alienated because they had to exploit everyone around them to become rich? Oh, the consequences of their own actions. Poor them.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Well they can get fulfillment from giving some of it to the less fortunate but hey, they want to be lost in life so I don't think I can ever feel bad. Money can buy happiness and it bought so much for them that they can't even be happy anymore. What a problem I would love to have

 

[MXG]

What's is the point of the article?

Human brain doesn't radically transform into alien brain when people have money?

 

[The Albatross]

Love these bait articles.

 

[Sidewinder]

Of course the rich and omega rich can suffer from depression, anxiety, paranoia etc. etc. but if the root of your problem is your humongous wealth, then I know a couple of billion people that'd gladly take some of that burden to make their daily lifes less miserable. Doing good with your wealth has to be one of the best things you can do, helping other people out is guaranteed to make you less miserable and more happy.

A poor dude with fucked up health can't just go "I'll become rich so that I can afford health care and erase all my financial problems which are fucking immense."

There are pros and cons to every situation.

Being poor

Pros: most people don't mock you for being sad

Cons: very limited access to mental health treatment for being sad, food insecurity, health problems, wear and tear on body from years of physical labor, living in an indefinite state of stress from waiting for the one catastrophe that will condemn you to being unhoused

Being Rich

Pros: you are king in the castle

Cons: people don't care when you're sad, and some people even laugh!

Click to shrink...

This.

 

[Fodder Aplenty]

Perhaps the solution for these rich folk is to simply recognise that, yes, the people around them are likely looking to exploit them for their money, willingly allow themselves to be exploited, and take joy from it.

 

[Idde]

Not much to say that hasn't already been said.

Sure, being rich doesn't make you immune to mental health issues. You're still only human. And being rich probably comes with a lot of issues that not-rich people don't have to deal with. And I can even imagine quite a lot of rich people running into those same problems (like not knowing who your friends really are, or who is just using you).

But having a comfortable life and dealing with mental health issues is muuuch easier than when you're poor. In which case it can greatly impact your life for the worse.

And of course having money means having access to the best therapists, while poor people are lucky to even get access to something.

So...yeah. I'll never go: haha, you're rich and suffering, that's awesome! Human beings being depressed still sucks.

But I have a harder time really caring for even a millionaire being lonely than someone wracked by mental health issues who has no way out, and no way of dealing with it.

 

[SpoonyGundam]

This reminds me of an old Ryoko Kui (Delicious in Dungeon) one-shot.

Spoiler

 

[Mathieran]

Pay employees better, donate some of their wealth, and pay taxes. Problem solved.

 

[wideface]

hey hey hey, rich people? go fuck yourselves

 

[Culex]

The rich still have to look at all those dreadful poors every day. It must be truly awful living like that.

 

[thewienke]

Where is the line where you can have too much money that you are no longer deserving of empathy for anything?

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We could probably collectively agree that it's somewhere around the point where you no longer need a paycheck and you are:

1. Of prime working age
2. Living off of passive income
3. Your passive income is an amount that doesn't prevent you from living a typical 1% lifestyle (so no "I retired at 35 to live in a tent in the woods on $2 per day" circumstances)

Considering a lot of mental health problems in this country are simply environmental, the wealthy already have a leg up in that area whereas everyone else has no choice but to go to their job that is potentially creating and/or exacerbating their problems.

When you are that point of wealthy you also have unlimited means of medicine including the absolute best treatments and physicians. As well as the unlimited time to seek out those treatments to their fullest extent (especially if it involves an extended stay at a spa kind of place where you get therapy/reprogramming).

Now if I were to hear that they literally tried everything and their mental health issues cannot be cured, even if they gave up all their money, then yeah I'm now finally feeling some empathy. Otherwise we're just looking at a problem of them not using their unlimited resources correctly.

 

[seroun]

There are poor people in third world countries who look at people like us (mostly middle class in developed countries) and think how lucky we are and that we have no right to complain.

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yes. And that is completely understandable and fine.


If the wealth gives these people such mental suffering, they have a very easy solution: give that wealth away to people who need it. Something that can be very fulfilling.

 

[Psittacus]

people in this position are either born into it and no nothing else or spend decades in the belief that they build security for themselves through building wealth and get attached to money because they rely on it for security, even when it passes any reasonable point of being sufficient for them.

Some of these people-especiallly the latter set-approach wealth not just as a tool or a means to some reasonable comfort or stability, but something they crave, love, and make central to everything they do.

For these people, yes it really is that hard for them to detach themselves from wealth, even as pursuit of it makes them incredibly unhappy and doesn't provide them any security or safety at all.

Click to shrink...

They have an addiction and because they have more power than anyone there's no way to intervene. If you try to pry them away from it they can and will choose to burn society down around them instead of giving it up and being better off for it.

 

[RockAction]

this just reads as guilt, they know they either hit the jackpot or exploited/exploit people to achieve that wealth and its unnatural to withhold it when you could help

maybe if the wealthy actually did stuff to help people with their wealth they would feel more included but if you hoard wealth that could either be directly used or even just put back into the capitalist system then I'm sorry you cant cry for inclusion

its that meme of if an ape withheld 99% of bananas from the group it would be studied for psychopathy

I'm sure they feel things personally and attribute it to isolation or objectification but it stems from their wealth/place in society being an aberration

edit: I see people are saying others are downplaying mental health struggles, I dont think people realise just how much money some people have, yes 90% of the world looks at us typing on our laptops with heat and bills paid and food as if we have anything to complain about but think about how much some people have, if we could donate one dollar and fix the water in Flint, Michigan, or one dollar and save a whole village somewhere, of course we would do it, one dollar or the cost of a coffee is nothing, thats how much 100k or 1m, 50m or 100m even 1bn is to some people in this world - so I'm sorry but you have to know you should not have that level of wealth and power and get to feel precious, capitalism exploits everyone top to bottom of course and everyone along the chain struggles, there are some that are just better off, but truly the only way to alleviate that is to help others