Yes. Much like how certain people love to drone on about entitled consumers and the like, the default state of the consumer-developer relationship is not "purchase unless you can find an excuse, and it better be good".
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Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries drops Steam and will be available exclusively on EGS [yes, please read STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Deleted member 8196
- Start date
Yes. Much like how certain people love to drone on about entitled consumers and the like, the default state of the consumer-developer relationship is not "purchase unless you can find an excuse, and it better be good".
You know how ridiculous it sounds that you would prioritize
scenario A) getting cloud saves and a Steam friendlist on December 10 2019 and risking the entire Mechwarrior IP and the livelihood of a small studio
over
scenario B) said small studio releasing a better game and increasing their chance of success and you having to wait 365 days for December 10 2020 to get cloud saves and a Steam friendlist?
It is not about fucking preference. I'm a Linux user, both because I prefer Linux and because I need it for work. Epic does not want me as a customer, any dev that goes into bed with Epic then by extension doesn't care for me as a customer. Why then should I care for their success?
It doesn't matter how many ludicrous apocalyptic scenarios you make up, developers are not owed purchases. If they think secretly changing FAQs and taking money from a corporation to make a crowdfunded game exclusive to a storefront is the best course of action, they'll have to live with the consequences of that choice.
What's the best outcome from these launchers competing with Steam? What features and changes could Valve implement to prevent companies from accepting the deals with Epic and such?
There are now several games om EGS I want, but I've already got like three launchers installed. At this point I'm just waiting for them to be re-released.
There are now several games om EGS I want, but I've already got like three launchers installed. At this point I'm just waiting for them to be re-released.
I've been playing MWO since the beginning, still do. Watching PGI self destruct while being propped up by the IP has been an infuriated process. If the IP wasn't Battletech it wouldn't have lasted half as long.
Russ Bullock and Paul Inouye would rather lose than win someone else's way. These are not the guys you trust to make good decisions.
They were supposed to be less than 2 months away from release, and we've see what of this game? Them running through potato chip consistency buildings while shooting drones at Mech-Con? People seriously need to understand who they are dealing with when setting expectations for Mechwarrior 5.
Hate was just a strong word that I shouldn't have used, because I have no literal hate for anyone in my heart.
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They proved without a doubt that they can't handle the Mechwarrior IP. Let other, more competent devs handle the IP.
Okay, I undertand, but then replace the sentence with Linux - you still have to wait 365 days and then you'll get it in exchange for a better product and a healthier developer. Besides, aren't there other games to play in the meantime?
Lower the cut could be one option and somehow fixing the visibility (although that new feature might help a little bit with that.) 30% of sales is a bit too step according to the developers I have met and follow on Twitter.
I don't know, I understand that there have been missteps the last 7 years, but at the same time, a lot of good things have come from PGI's handling of the IP. Like the following:
You're right that we haven't seen much of the game since December 2018, but they are likely gearing up for marketing and this EGS deal probably gives them a better shot at delivering a quality product.
Besides, mods will save us in case it really goes bad and give the game a long future. I'm optimistic.
See above
(sorry for the double-post)
Valve has been constantly iterating on Steam's UI ever since it launched. Their chat overhaul was just one of those iterations. There's no reason to believe that it wouldn't have happened without Discord.
The prime of Desura and Impulse are completely irrelevant because both platforms failed to gain any traction. That's why they're dead. Steam added Greenlight as a direct response to complaints from indie devs, not because they were inspired by two random platforms that combined had maybe a 0.5% market share.
As for the cut scaling, it favors games with high revenue because those are the games that actually justify their upkeep costs. Hosting games isn't free, especially on a platform that has as many features and servers as Steam. The majority of indie games don't sell well enough to cover their upkeep so they have to pay a larger cut to compensate.
in the long term more success for EGS means a vastly reduced experience and selection for linux gamers
i don't run linux myself but if i did my preference would be for EGS to fail and exit the market as quickly as possible, regardless of how it helps one developer on one game right now
Lowering the cut will do the opposite. more devs would be profitable (which is good), which means that more games will be released.
and some payment methods will become unavailable. Valve pays 15% on Steam money cards, they are huge in many countries, even the majority in some places. add to that copies bought outside of Steam where Valve gets nothing and they would be losing money easily with a bigger cut for devs.
What would you expect to become of 100% keys if the cut was lowered?
I'm the first to, as a user, trully dislike Epic's moneyhatting, but I've just realised I don't care at all of this particular case... and that surprises and saddens me.
I mean, MechWarrior is one of my all-time favourite series, I should be slighty annoyed at the very least (either for being forced to buy it there, either to wait), but the terrible clusterfuck MWO is seems to have destroyed my interest for this game on a biggest measure that I thought. Thanks PGI, I guess.
I mean, MechWarrior is one of my all-time favourite series, I should be slighty annoyed at the very least (either for being forced to buy it there, either to wait), but the terrible clusterfuck MWO is seems to have destroyed my interest for this game on a biggest measure that I thought. Thanks PGI, I guess.
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we still don't know if this is a successful strategy and honestly i wouldn't want a developer to risk their studio and jobs just because I was being afraid of losing Linux support via Steam. There are bigger fish to protest and boycott like Ubisoft and Borderlands than some small studio whose livelihood depends on this EGS deal.
Thanks I didn't know that! But not sure how it would do the opposite? I mean, how much larger can the over-crowding actually get?
I'm not sure it would be lowered because of a cut in 30%?
ubisoft and take 2 aren't moneyhatting steam games away to a platform that doesn't support linux
valve subsidizes steam keys sold outside the steam store. they don't get any money from them but still provide all of the same features and CDN bandwidth, which means those keys cost them.
if they make a smaller cut on games sold in their own store their profitability goes down and they're less likely to want to provide free shit like unlimited dev keys for reselling.
You misunderstand. I was saying that ubisoft and take-two are taking the EGS deals with Division 2 and Borderlands 3 and they are bigger fish that should fry than PGI. Raging at a small studio trying to survive and keep their jobs is not the same as raging towards a multibillion corporation whose power and influence on EGS' future success is that much greater than Mechwarrior 5 and PGI. If you're scared of EGS, then rage at Ubisoft and Gearbox for propping up that store when they clearly don't need the Epic money and have a much bigger impact on making EGS bigger, whereas PGI is an almost opposite case.
I know how it works, but I was saying that it wouldn't necessarily be the case that a lowering the (insane) 30% cut automatically implies lowering the 100% key thing. It's speculation on our parts.
maybe the users upset at this don't give a shit about borderlands or ubisoft games. trying to control what people care about is a pointless endeavor and just comes across as concern trolling.
you don't think that if a company's primary revenue stream is cut almost in half they wouldn't start cutting costs elsewhere? ok dude
uhm no it's practically a strategic and contextual approach to picking your battles. If the objective is to decrease the potential success of EGS because of linux support like you originally wrote, then you pick your targets. That's it. If it's just MW5 you're interested in, linux people will still get a better game next year with a higher likelihood of future success with the IP.
Have you read any of the previous pages? Why this was a good decision for PGI and Mechwarrior fans? If not, just read this
no need for the dismissive tone, aeolist. I was just saying that we don't necessarily know if it would be the case.
Cool beans. Valve are completely atypical in that they exist in a vacuum and do whatever they want and that just happens to be what prevents their competition from getting a firm hold and results in a better product. And any similar endeavors along the way are a non-factor.
However you want to justify it, I just hope that we get better terms for the indie devs and better curation out of this. I'm sure Big Gabe will do it from the goodness of his heart and all that jazz.
99% of your indie devs will never get onto the curated EGS. But they can get onto Steam.
I feel like something would have to give. If the baseline cut was 20% for Valve, their key program would result in probably ~15% or lower of the game sales actually going to them, whilst providing a vastly superior service to the one taking a 12% cut and also passing costs onto consumers.
It's completely unfair to tell a Linux user to "just wait a year" and then turn around and be upset at people who aren't happy about the EGS decision. Labeling them as toxic and irrational.
People have every right to be upset at the situation at hand. Just as others have every right to be okay with what PGI has chosen. But don't be dismissive of other's concerns just because it makes the developers looks negative.
People have every right to be upset at the situation at hand. Just as others have every right to be okay with what PGI has chosen. But don't be dismissive of other's concerns just because it makes the developers looks negative.
Valve lets any indie developer sell their games on Steam. That's already better terms than EGS, GOG, PSN, XBL, eShop, Uplay, Origin, Battle.net, Bethesda.net, etc. As for better curation, what you really mean is that you want fewer indie developers to be allowed on Steam based on arbitrary standards.
There was a time when developers had to earn their money by releasing a quality product that appealed to customers. If they failed to do that, they would lose money and possibly go out of business. Now they're somehow entitled to money before releasing anything? They chose Epic over their customers. If it works out, good for them. But I won't shed a tear if it doesn't.
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This is an over-simplification of the reality of business and the industry, and you know it was true then and still is now. There are so many more factors than just making a good game and there are so many good games that never went anywhere or made anything. Regardless, yeah hopefully it works out.
One thing that Epic did amazingly is PR. No nuances at all and they turned many people against Steam. Valve could lower their cut but we don't know by how much. And Valve is getting less then 30% in many cases. For example DMC5 has 23K reviews, 50% of them are from purchases outside of Steam. IF that scales to all purchases Valve basically got 15% from all DMC5 purchases. But you won't see Tim or Sergey mention that anywhere, they just talk about fixed 30%.
people are literally sending threats at PGI the last two days and you think it's wrong to label them as toxic and irrational? That's ridiculous. They don't get to behave and act like that, it's peak gamer outrage acting like big crying babies who harass and insult a game developer because they're not appeasing them at every turn.
And people's preferences for Linux and having to wait 365 days shouldn't override 40+ people being able to keep their jobs.
Yeah. Lots of people talking about lowering the cut here won't acknowledge it either.
Although you gotta factor in what a game sells for elsewhere to get an approximate idea of how much overall Valve gets. In your example of DMC5, if you assume it sold 1 million, 50% on Steam at $50 average and 50% elsewhere at $30 average, the new Steam cut system still effectively makes Valve's cut ~16.875% (if I did the math right).
As someone who has been waiting for a new MW for a long ass time, I knew this was the case but I still hoped against hope that MS would care enough to ensure a W10S release.
Yet another game I'm going to have to my "do not buy" list, especially after the seemingly disingenuous way this was going to be revealed initially and what they've said about the situation. I don't think the "best thing for the franchise" was to limit the game to the objectively inferior platform because they were given a chunk of money to do so, without caring about what the fans will think about the situation, and then trying to claim that this is all a good thing that they decided to go for something that is detrimental to those waiting customers/players.