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MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Tbh when I looked at the Wikipedia page I was expecting the BDs to have been ported.

I get, when taking this as a forward-looking initiative, why those games might be behind the vast library of classics SE can port to the platforms.

If it is a forward looking initiative, I think we should hear about an Octopath port in a year or two.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Do you guys think that the two BD games and Octopath will sell well on mobile?

No. I play lots of mobile game, but It's very uncomfortable playing big RPG on mobile. It also drains your battery like mad and you need your mobile for communication and navigation.
Also mobile gamer tends to be very resistant to payinh fixed price as was shown by SMR.
I doubt the sales of big RPG on mobile has been great too. Haven't heard SE commented on that.
 

Vinnk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,969
Japan
Do you guys think that the two BD games and Octopath will sell well on mobile?
They might, but not to gamers like me. RPGs without buttons are a chore to play. I had Chrono Trigger on my phone and the mountain climbing parts and the catching the rat part were near impossible.

And frankly I think they won't sell to today's smartphone gamers unless they are free to play.
 

CeroMiedo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,337
No. I play lots of mobile game, but It's very uncomfortable playing big RPG on mobile. It also drains your battery like mad and you need your mobile for communication and navigation.
Also mobile gamer tends to be very resistant to payinh fixed price as was shown by SMR.
I doubt the sales of big RPG on mobile has been great too. Haven't heard SE commented on that.
They might, but not to gamers like me. RPGs without buttons are a chore to play. I had Chrono Trigger on my phone and the mountain climbing parts and the catching the rat part were near impossible.

And frankly I think they won't sell to today's smartphone gamers unless they are free to play.
ok,but what about making the game an extremely hard f2p game that make you pay 0.99$ to revive or wait half and hour while using the microtransaction on the 3ds,what about that?Will it appeal to the mobile audience?
 

Deleted member 5167

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,114
mobile chips can run DX12, they just dont have the licenses to do so. but they are capable
I specifically said most chips don't run DirectX, but was using DX version numbers as they are most familiar to people versed in gaming.
The economies of mobile game development are in volume not margins, and as such usually target OpenGL ES 3.0 (or lower) to run on the broadest spectrum of devices.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
I believe that full games such as BD and Octopath that do not have established names will usually always sell better on dedicated console hardware. Games like FF and DQ have no problem selling on mobile because they are franchises that have been around for 30 years.

I have had no problem playing big RPGs on mobile, I have beat all the DQ on my iPhone and FF1,2,3,4,5. On my iPad I beat 9 and Tactics.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I think this might be right. Generally, my assumption always was that premium mobile titles were going to be mostly older classics that might find some currency with current phone audiences, e.g. re-releases of all the DQs.

...

On a related note: The approach of a lot of these established companies seems (from a not-so-close) follower to be that they put out games that lean into established (on consoles or on TV or in manga) IP and their mindshare, e.g. gacha games with the characters of a series.

Do any of the big "old gaming" publishers put out mobile titles not relying on such legacy in such a way, which are still successful? I sort of assume that is what they are doing for the most part.

Big mobile companies that aren't such publishers do put out such titles though?

The reason I bring this up in relation to the conversation at hand is it seems relevant to what can be had in the premium market.

Are there any non-legacy remakes/ports put out as premium on mobile that are successful? Mario Run comes to mind but that is also clearly leaning into an old IP, into old content and mindshare. Are there any successful premium titles on mobile that don't have such public awareness of the IP propelling them?

Are there any big mobile companies that aren't "old gaming" publishers that are heavily involved in premium games?
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
ok,but what about making the game an extremely hard f2p game that make you pay 0.99$ to revive or wait half and hour while using the microtransaction on the 3ds,what about that?Will it appeal to the mobile audience?

I don't think that will work. Even in mobile games itself, a lot of people has been complaining about some endgame content requiring obscene amount of energy to attempt.
Most of the time mobile games work because you always get new shiny things to play with and all players regardless of whether you spend money or not has chance to get that.
Moving the monetization from collectibles to ease artificially inflated difficulty won't go well, because players won't feel the reward. It will just be perceived as some arbitrary locking of content.
 

Rainrir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,337
Nirolak
MoonFrog

I get the confusion you described, but I think I didn't explain my "cold feet" comment well.

Let's talk about HH to mobile.

The "port to premium mobile game" model works well for legacy software, because many of these games are old, so they are out of print or only sold on digita/physical store fronts at prices comparable to what they charge on mobile (think DQ 3DS). This creates no issue with product positioning as quite often this is the only easy way to play the legacy game, and by the time the mobile version releases the games would have depreciated and the audience feels the are buying the same thing either way.

I feel the key issue here for day and date HH/mobile release is how do you not lose the handheld market, who is still willing to pay 40 (now 60 on NSW) dollars a game, when you have a mobile version day and date? Its an issue with product positioning.

Mobile audiences have a threshold on how much they will spend on an upfront purchase. This is why the DQ premium mobile games are 20 dollars and no higher.

Having a cheaper version on mobile day and date is a bad idea because you make the handheld buyers feel they are pay 40 for an possibly inferior "mobile" product, and making the mobile audience pay 40 up front is very difficult. If you do 20 for both, then you could sell this as a purely mobile app, why have extra work for a HH SKU?

Even with variable pricing we can see that it ended up caught in an awkward position where you don't hit the spot for either audience (game quality nonwithstanding).
I mean Lady Layton sorta showed that.

Hence, when i say cold feet, I mean them feeling that they do not want to risk a new product finding no position like that. They are fine with putting premium games (at 20) due to the low initial, long tail sales. They are fine with HH releases because they want that 40 (60) front loaded sales, and eventually DLC revenue.

Launching a game with a HH and Mobile SKU at once is to enter unknown territory with regards to product positioning. You might end up with neither market buying in, because you are neither here nor there.

I think it makes more sense to port old titles from HH to mobile after the sales potential on HH is exhausted. This allows you to capture both the HH and Mobile audiences without alienating either.

Furthermore, I would question the commitment of SE towards premium app. As Nirolak pointed out, the only two put out is FFXV Pocket and FFD2. The former feels like an attempt to spread the brand of FFXV (esp in Japan who didn't buy that much FFXV). How much money FFXVP makes isnt that important. The latter feels like a last ditch effort to make some money off a mobage that never performed too well.

As for porting mobile to HH, one challenge is that HH had limited online functionality. It is slightly anathema to the "open and play anytime" idea for Japanese mobile games. Remember "always online" isnt an issue in Japan (unlike the west), as doesn't have third world mobile internet. Japanese mobile games are always online as a rule.

Another is that the onl pure HH left in the market is the 3DS. It has pretty poor specs, and a bad screen. Most ported mobile games will probably run badly and look bad on the 3DS, making their appeal limited.

Now the Switch could possible bridge this gap, since it should be able to run all mobile ports easily. However the NSW is also really new, so it takes time. We will have to see what happens going forward.

If Vern is to be believed, maybe some of the games you mentioned for "mobile to HH conversion" is precisely what SE has prepared for the NSW...
 
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Nocturnal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
Overcooked has spend a full month in the Japanese eShop's top 10, now in 8th place behind MK8D and right above Rocket League which launched yesterday in Japan.
I'm not sure how Rocket League did on the PS4 but it would be interesting to track it on the eShop in the upcoming weeks as Switch's audience expands during the holiday.

I'm interested if Bomberman R also reenters the chart with this update, whether physical or eshop, Konami can push a few more sales during the holidays if they ran 50% off.
 

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,965
MHW-74.jpg


If MHW keeps doing well like this, 1 million+ FW seems like a guarantee.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
MHW-74.jpg


If MHW keeps doing well like this, 1 million+ FW seems like a guarantee.
From the graphics, MHW follows MHXX's perormance almost to a tee. From that, I would think that there is a userbase with similar behaviour buying this game, and that would lead me to believe that MHW is headed for an opening approximately equal to MHXX.

I prrsume you deduce your 1 million statement by assuming that it will have a 'PS4-like' behaviour rather than a 'MH-like' behaviour, and comparing with DQXI to find a 1+ million opening. I wouldn't agree with that myself, as preorder trends in your graphics show MHW to be more MH-like than PS4-like as of right now.
 

Laplasakos

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
From the graphics, MHW follows MHXX's perormance almost to a tee. From that, I would think that there is a userbase with similar behaviour buying this game, and that would lead me to believe that MHW is headed for an opening approximately equal to MHXX.

I prrsume you deduce your 1 million statement by assuming that it will have a 'PS4-like' behaviour rather than a 'MH-like' behaviour, and comparing with DQXI to find a 1+ million opening. I wouldn't agree with that myself, as preorder trends in your graphics show MHW to be more MH-like than PS4-like as of right now.

There is also the PS4 Pro bundle sales that will be included in the FW of the game (similar to what happened with DQH). Sony will push the bundle hard like the Metal Slime PS4. I think the game will perform better on digital than XX too. 1m opening is not unlikely but i still believe the game will have a similar performance to DQXI (800k FW on retail - 1m+ LTD).
 

Rellik

Member
Oct 28, 2017
719
Yes. The top 10 COMG PS4 games should line closely to the top 10 PS4 FW games iirc.

As Zedark has said, it could be argued that it's behaving more like a MH title than a PS4 title so a > 1 million FW is not guaranteed even if it ends with more preorders than DQ XI. Not to say that COMG preorders should not be taken as an accurate measure for sales but I don't want to bring again such old debates.
 

Laplasakos

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
As Zedark has said, it could be argued that it's behaving more like a MH title than a PS4 title so a > 1 million FW is not guaranteed even if it ends with more preorders than DQ XI. Not to say that COMG preorders should not be taken as an accurate measure for sales but I don't want to bring again such old debates.

Most important thing to note here is that PS4 games on COMG have a better ratio than 3DS games. That is a fact. Obviously this is happening because 3DS has a bigger userbase, so the ratio of the PS4 games will change with time too. Anything else is only speculation and we will know who was right when the game releases.
 
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Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,181
Overcooked has spend a full month in the Japanese eShop's top 10, now in 8th place behind MK8D and right above Rocket League which launched yesterday in Japan.
I'm not sure how Rocket League did on the PS4 but it would be interesting to track it on the eShop in the upcoming weeks as Switch's audience expands during the holiday.

I'm interested if Bomberman R also reenters the chart with this update, whether physical or eshop, Konami can push a few more sales during the holidays if they ran 50% off.

Rocket League became a breakout success due to the PS4 and being part of Play Station Plus program for free when it released. It snowballed the word of mouth into an avalanche on PC and PS4.
 

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Italy
I think a 1m debut should be a given. MH is a popular franchise, PS4 showed to be able to sustain close to 1m openings, and PS4 userbase should drive at launch, giving the game a frontloaded performance.
 

schuelma

Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,901
Most important thing to note here is that PS4 games on COMG have a better ratio than 3DS games. That is a fact. Obviously this is happening because 3DS has a bigger userbase, so the ratio of the PS4 games will change with time too. Anything else is only speculation and we will know who was right when the game releases.

Is it? I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think its much more dependent on the franchise. I think 750K-ish is still a pretty realistic place for it to land. But we'll see.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
There is also the PS4 Pro bundle sales that will be included in the FW of the game (similar to what happened with DQH). Sony will push the bundle hard like the Metal Slime PS4. I think the game will perform better on digital than XX too. 1m opening is not unlikely but i still believe the game will have a similar performance to DQXI (800k FW on retail - 1m+ LTD).

Is that your estimate for MHW? DQXI did 950,315 on PS4 opening week without digital and it's probably above 1.5 million LTD with the high digital attach rate already.
 

Rellik

Member
Oct 28, 2017
719
Most important thing to note here is that PS4 games on COMG have a better ratio than 3DS games. That is a fact. Obviously this is happening because 3DS has a bigger userbase, so the ratio of the PS4 games will change with time too. Anything else is only speculation and we will know who was right when the game releases.

And MHW is tracking behind MHXX and this title couldn't debut with > 1m FW. That's a fact ;) Anyway, my point was that is nothing sort of guaranteed to debut with >1m if it keeps tracking the way it's doing right now so everything else is irrelevant (and more after some recent COMG "misfires" like SMO).

Where's the new thread Chrisssssss? :P
 

Laplasakos

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
And MHW is tracking behind MHXX and this title couldn't debut with > 1m FW. That's a fact ;) Anyway, my point was that is nothing sort of guaranteed to debut with >1m if it keeps tracking the way it's doing right now so everything else is irrelevant (and more after some recent COMG "misfires" like SMO).

Where's the new thread Chrisssssss? :P

You missed the point. That's what i am trying to tell you. MHXX having more comg points mean nothing because of the ratio between the two platforms. If a 3DS game scores 100pt on COMG and a PS4 scores 80pt, it will be the PS4 game that will have a bigger op and not the 3DS game. At least that's happening in 9 out of 10 occasions.

Is it? I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think its much more dependent on the franchise. I think 750K-ish is still a pretty realistic place for it to land. But we'll see.

It is. I am surprised you haven't noticed it since you are posting in the MC threads for quite some time. Then again maybe you are not bothering with COMG...

Just look at the recent or big PS4 releases and compare them with the recent 3DS games.
 

datschge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623
ok,but what about making the game an extremely hard f2p game that make you pay 0.99$ to revive or wait half and hour while using the microtransaction on the 3ds,what about that?Will it appeal to the mobile audience?
Bandai Namco tried exactly that with Tales of Phantasia back in 2013. The fact the service was stopped within less than a year is pretty telling.
 
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