I think they should just make some Zelda open world hack and slash spinoff if they want to go down that path of simplified combat and more exploration (which I think would be very successful depending on how good the combat and level design was).
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Media Create Sales: Week 7, 2018 (Feb 12 - Feb 18)
- Thread starter Chris1964
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I think they should just make some Zelda open world hack and slash spinoff if they want to go down that path of simplified combat and more exploration (which I think would be very successful depending on how good the combat and level design was).
I wasn't speaking about its futur success though, I was only answering to the "creative" argument of your post.
Bayonetta 3 might do well, I still don't think the serie need a third instalment, creatively speaking. Bayo 2 was a high note to end the serie on and fans should be happy it even exists.
Bayonetta is the type of game that generally sells well but isn't going to move consoles, so the underperformance of Bayonetta 2 on the Wii U probably doesn't speak much about the franchise's sales potential, and with the way they're bundling/selling the Switch port in Japan they weren't likely to break the ceiling that much more either with this particular venture. There's nothing about the series that, theoretically, would make it sell less than Devil May Cry, and back in March 2010 the game worldwide had already sold in the same ballpark as DMC3 and DMC2 ended up selling (which are the two lowest selling entries in the series, granted, but for a brand new IP I reckon 1.35 million leaves a lot of room to go upward). Bayonetta 3 will probably do just fine on the Switch simply by virtue of there being a lot of people owning the thing and I imagine Nintendo will be pushing it much more.
That's just my guess though, the growth potential was always there in my opinion but Platinum got kind of screwed by too many circumstances. It's a bit of a shame Bayonetta 2 will probably go down being the slightly more overlooked title of the series if that kind of prediction holds up.
That's just my guess though, the growth potential was always there in my opinion but Platinum got kind of screwed by too many circumstances. It's a bit of a shame Bayonetta 2 will probably go down being the slightly more overlooked title of the series if that kind of prediction holds up.
I think there are several reasons for which Bayonetta 2 sales are poor:
- it's a niche game;
- I think that people who really, really love the franchise already played it because they were willing to buy a WiiU to play it;
- there are a lots of other games in the Switch library that people may prefer. For instance, if I didn't have already bought Zelda BOTW, Odissey, Xenoblade2, MK8D and Splatoon2, Bayonetta would have been queued in the wish list after these games, and I suppose it's the same for many other (particularly people who has Switch/Nintendo consoles ad their primary/only consoles);
- it's a full price port (in japan, besides, with Bayonetta2 they don't give a free Bayonetta1 digital code);
- the first Bayonetta has recently been published on PC too.
It's a pity because I'm playing them for the first time and I'm finding them extremely fun and challenging. Anyway I think that Nintendo should continue to publish games like Bayonetta who can seel a sufficient but not extremely large number of copies, because it helps to broaden their audience.
- it's a niche game;
- I think that people who really, really love the franchise already played it because they were willing to buy a WiiU to play it;
- there are a lots of other games in the Switch library that people may prefer. For instance, if I didn't have already bought Zelda BOTW, Odissey, Xenoblade2, MK8D and Splatoon2, Bayonetta would have been queued in the wish list after these games, and I suppose it's the same for many other (particularly people who has Switch/Nintendo consoles ad their primary/only consoles);
- it's a full price port (in japan, besides, with Bayonetta2 they don't give a free Bayonetta1 digital code);
- the first Bayonetta has recently been published on PC too.
It's a pity because I'm playing them for the first time and I'm finding them extremely fun and challenging. Anyway I think that Nintendo should continue to publish games like Bayonetta who can seel a sufficient but not extremely large number of copies, because it helps to broaden their audience.
Maybe he is using Famitsu numbers and combines SE too but this is the MC data.
Media Create
Devil May Cry 4 PS3 - 310.012
Devil May Cry 4 X360 - 55.259
Devil May Cry 4 PlayStation 3 the Best - 45.347
Devil May Cry 4 PlayStation 3 the Best Reprint - 6.782
Devil May Cry 4 Platinum Collection X360 - 6,360
Total 424k
Devil May Cry 4: Special Edition PS4 - 62.288
You can't ignore the difference in promotional level between DMC/Bayo 1 and Bayo 2(and presumably Bayo 3). Nintendo doesn't give those games the AAA treatment, for better or worse.
I think they co-own Wonderful 101 at least. That tends to be how Nintendo works with third parties.
I think they co-own Wonderful 101 at least. That tends to be how Nintendo works with third parties.
- Switch has been supply constrained for the majority of 2018 in Japan. Even if we are seeing anecdotal evidence demand leveling off this week, that hasn't been the case the previous 6 weeks.
- There is also a distinct lack of games during Jan/Feb on the Switch compared to March/April, I think that's one of the reasons Stardew Valley got such a big promotion in Japan(featured in the mini-direct, features in tons of Japanese eShop articles etc). This type of release schedule obviously to a degree effected Switch baseline, once we get a regular stream of big and mid range games it makes the device more attractive.
Jan/Feb retail releases: Mario + Rabbids, Skyrim, Gal Metal!, Cave Story+, Bayonetta 2, Rayman Legends,
March retail releases: Doom, Dragon Quest Builders, Gal Gun 2, Attack On Titan 2, Steins Gate Elite, Winning Post 8 2018, Kirby, Monster Energy Supercross, PriPara, Hyrule Warriors,
April retail releases: Snack World, Neo Atlas 1469, Portal Knights, Labo Variety, Labo Robot, SD Gundam G,
I don't think we actually know the full list of retail games for April, since it appears some ports/games get announced with less than 2 months to launch. But in anycase this demonstrates that release schedule was pretty much concentrated on March/April compared to January/February and I think in part the reason was because 3rd party's probably know when to expect larger quantities of hardware being available at retailers. Usually we see a large shipment for the end of FY so in March, and I think Labo will be a major reason we would see a strong April as well.
In terms of May I think that there is a lot yet to be announced in terms of smaller and mid range releases, while Mario Tennis Aces also doesn't have a release date and I'd expect a bigger unannounced game to launch May/June. Granted a lot of these titles are small games but the difference in terms of number of retail releases between January & February compared to March/April is very substantial.
- Sony has better Q1 in terms of games targeting Japan compared to Nintendo majority of years since it allows them to market Japanese games in the West during a part of the year where big publishers generally don't launch that many titles(outside of Ubisoft). This year specifically they have the biggest PS4 release in the form of MHW but it sort of took the air out of other lesser PS4 titles so it's not a surprise it might have also effected Switch to a degree.
- 3DS was riding high on it's evergreens which were released in Nov/Dec of 2011. Another factor is that it had a better lineup during January/February, currently the only Switch game to be released in 2018 that has surpassed 100K is Mario+Rabbids. Overall starting March Switch begins to have a much stronger lineup than 3DS
Notable Launches on 3DS and sales before Week 10:
Resident Evil: Revelations(Week 4) – 163.906 / 251.560
New Love Plus(Week 7) – 104.969 / 113.613
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy(Week 7) – 67.206 / 99.532
Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin(Week 8) – 81.131 / 108.509
Late 2011/early 2012 was easily the best time period for game releases for 3DS as a point of comparison:
-Mario 3D Land
-Mario Kart 7
-Kid Icarus Uprising
-Kingdom Hearts 3D
-Resident Evil Revalations
-Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
-Metal Gear Solid 3
-Fire Emblem Awakening
This was one of the few time periods where Nintendo and third parties at the same time cared greatly about the 3DS (Nintendo's support died off on 3DS after 2013).
Whereas early 2018 for the Switch is aggressively uninteresting other than Kirby and Labo Variety Pack since the rest are ports with the only other semi big game being Mario+Rabbids.
-Mario 3D Land
-Mario Kart 7
-Kid Icarus Uprising
-Kingdom Hearts 3D
-Resident Evil Revalations
-Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
-Metal Gear Solid 3
-Fire Emblem Awakening
This was one of the few time periods where Nintendo and third parties at the same time cared greatly about the 3DS (Nintendo's support died off on 3DS after 2013).
Whereas early 2018 for the Switch is aggressively uninteresting other than Kirby and Labo Variety Pack since the rest are ports with the only other semi big game being Mario+Rabbids.
To be honest,
The whole Bayonnetta Switch release has been bungled. No Bayo 1, limited climax edition, no physical in the west, etc.
Japanese consumers feel screwed because they don't get Bayo 1.
Western consumers feel screwed because they don't have option to own physical for both.
In this globalized world, this type of disparity in treatment hurts. See MHW doing amazingly with a global launch. Fans don't like getting shafted.
The handling of the Bayo ports turned me off from buying the game. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And I'm an enthusiast who will buy all games that are appealing. Exactly the target audience for Bayo and the demographic that is driving high software sales for Switch.
Again. Fans don't like to feel like they are getting screwed over. Enthusiasts are well informed customers. Enthusiasts are the target audience for Bayonetta.
The whole Bayonnetta Switch release has been bungled. No Bayo 1, limited climax edition, no physical in the west, etc.
Japanese consumers feel screwed because they don't get Bayo 1.
Western consumers feel screwed because they don't have option to own physical for both.
In this globalized world, this type of disparity in treatment hurts. See MHW doing amazingly with a global launch. Fans don't like getting shafted.
The handling of the Bayo ports turned me off from buying the game. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And I'm an enthusiast who will buy all games that are appealing. Exactly the target audience for Bayo and the demographic that is driving high software sales for Switch.
Again. Fans don't like to feel like they are getting screwed over. Enthusiasts are well informed customers. Enthusiasts are the target audience for Bayonetta.
Bayonetta is comparable to Devil May Cry as a franchise because the first entry sold as well as the fourth entry of the former? What?
Was someone expecting a result like Lost Sphear? That would have been terrible.
Secret of Mana was one of the most successful games in Japan during '90s, selling around 1.5m units on SNES. The franchise is not what it was used to but the remake surely wasn't attractive enough to engage a bigger audience.
NDS is a unique example and shouldn't be the benchmark. The benchmark is becoming a 20m+ hardware.
Nintendo has one system but it is priced higher than any other previous handheld platform.
How would you qualify the game as a major hit? 2m worldwide or Returns-like sales? It's still a porting of an old game.
Switch is supply constrained but it is also way more expensive than 3DS after price cut. After 3DS price got slashed, Switch couldn't stand a chance.
Was someone expecting a result like Lost Sphear? That would have been terrible.
Secret of Mana was one of the most successful games in Japan during '90s, selling around 1.5m units on SNES. The franchise is not what it was used to but the remake surely wasn't attractive enough to engage a bigger audience.
NDS is a unique example and shouldn't be the benchmark. The benchmark is becoming a 20m+ hardware.
Nintendo has one system but it is priced higher than any other previous handheld platform.
How would you qualify the game as a major hit? 2m worldwide or Returns-like sales? It's still a porting of an old game.
Switch is supply constrained but it is also way more expensive than 3DS after price cut. After 3DS price got slashed, Switch couldn't stand a chance.
Looks like XB1 is also getting it. Looks like Koei-Tecmo isn't the only company adding XB1 SKU for western release, SEGA also doing it now (VC4 wasn't just a one-off thing).
I wonder what Switch revisions can actually be made.
It's pretty nice hardware and I don't want it to be smaller or bigger. I would like more battery life, but that's about it for things they could change to make an interesting revision.
It's pretty nice hardware and I don't want it to be smaller or bigger. I would like more battery life, but that's about it for things they could change to make an interesting revision.
This is a great point. The Climax edition should have just been the global standard. Some poor decisions in the running of this release
I too have saw the game and agree with this statement.
Geez, this type of statements should only be made when you actually saw the game, not when a you have is a short teaser.
The reason it wasn't is the cartridge cost. I think it's a big problem that really limits their options.
Some of the 3DS games released by Nintendo after 2013:
- two mainline Kirby games and multiple spin-offs
- Mario Golf and Sports
- Super Smash Bros.
- Rhythm Heaven Megamix
- Fire Emblem Fates and Echoes
- Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer
- three Mario Party and three Style Savvy games
- The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D and TriForce Heroes
- Miitopia
- two Metroid Prime games
- usual Pokémon stuffs
- two Mario & Luigi games
Ah I see.
I was comparing the original releases.
Bayonetta (PS3): 206,142
Bayonetta (360): 111,829
Total: 317,971
DMC4 Original Releases: 365,271
Though if we add in the Bayonetta re-releases:
Bayonetta [PlayStation 3 the Best]: 17,130
Bayonetta [Xbox 360 Platinum Collection]: 6,336
Bayonetta total with re-releases: 341,437
I honestly don't feel these are hugely different performances, especially since the Special Edition in particular doesn't really make sense to bundle given it's a remaster with new content.
Smash Bros was a big game, so was Samus Returns and Pokemon (obviously) and Fire Emblem and Kirby.
The rest I struggle to see as too major. Federation Force was major budget wise but it's probably the biggest failure in Nintendo's history for a single game.
There's zero Nintendo EPD games on this list other than an Animal Crossing spinoff.
Looks like it's back to the crypt for Virtual On. Anime-ing it up didn't save the IP. Ah well, I'll always have my import copy.
Secret of Mana did 'okay' in the sense of "at least it didn't bomb like Lost Sphear", but I don't think it's a particularly good result at all.
Who'd have thought out of the three Vita games releasing this week, an otome from Bandai Namco (and likely their final release on the console) would be the highest selling.
We saw with Tearaway and Gravity Rush that they just weren't commercially viable games and it was nothing to do with the poor-selling hardware even when they were ported to PS4.
I suspect Bayonetta 3 will do alright on Switch by the time it releases.
Secret of Mana did 'okay' in the sense of "at least it didn't bomb like Lost Sphear", but I don't think it's a particularly good result at all.
Who'd have thought out of the three Vita games releasing this week, an otome from Bandai Namco (and likely their final release on the console) would be the highest selling.
We saw with Tearaway and Gravity Rush that they just weren't commercially viable games and it was nothing to do with the poor-selling hardware even when they were ported to PS4.
I suspect Bayonetta 3 will do alright on Switch by the time it releases.
You wrote "Nintendo's support died off on 3DS after 2013"; you didn't mention "major games". Nintendo kept supporting 3DS throughout 2017 even if they were smaller games so support obviously didn't die off. Also, Nintendo localized many games after 2013.
I don't understand why we should consider EPD games only...? All of those games I'd mentioned were published by Nintendo and some of them even got pretty big development and marketing budgets. Animal Crossing was a spin-off and it sold 1.5m units in Japan. Rhythm Heaven is developed by SPD and is one of the biggest Nintendo franchises in Japan.
Also, Miitopia is an EPD game as well as TriForce Heroes, though co-developed with other teams.
Bayonetta 2 bomba, wasn't hoping for more though. This is a remaster of a pretty unpopular game in Japan. It's a Remaster, this should say everything. Remaster + Japan = Waifu is sad.
They should at least print a few more of these Climax Editions. Guess many people from the West imported one too because NA received nothing and EU only a stripped down version with Bayonetta 1 only digital.
The Mana Remake isn't mentioned much by the users here, but it's a more than a solid debut for a Remake (just compare it to the weak start of the Shadow of the Colossus Remake) which don't feature any new contents besides new graphics and gameplay improvements. Sad to see the Vita Version so far behind. Square Enix didn't even bother to release the Vita Version physical in the West. And in NA, they released the PlayStation 4 version only via Gamestop/EB Games while this version is available everywhere here in Europe.
They should at least print a few more of these Climax Editions. Guess many people from the West imported one too because NA received nothing and EU only a stripped down version with Bayonetta 1 only digital.
The Mana Remake isn't mentioned much by the users here, but it's a more than a solid debut for a Remake (just compare it to the weak start of the Shadow of the Colossus Remake) which don't feature any new contents besides new graphics and gameplay improvements. Sad to see the Vita Version so far behind. Square Enix didn't even bother to release the Vita Version physical in the West. And in NA, they released the PlayStation 4 version only via Gamestop/EB Games while this version is available everywhere here in Europe.
Yeah, I think that could be their best selling title to date if done well.
I think their 2 best sellers are using established IPs, right?
Can't really agree with this, the cost of the climax edition is premium anyway so the cost is already being absorbed + its a near straight port - using two cartridges is hardly ruining its profitability
The climax edition is more expensive right? And it sold better. There are ways to be profitable without hurting goodwill of your enthusiast base.
Why didn't the Japanese market get the Bayo 1 digital code? Again. Disparity in treatment hurts Goodwill.
For these niche releases, making sure to cater to your base can result in doubling your sales.
Three main points...
1) PS4 is tracking comfortable ahead PS3
2) PS4 has still to peak in Japan (probably this year with 2m+ sales)
3) PS4 has price cuts still to come... two or three.
Unless PS5 hits Japan in 2019 my estimates are fine.
Like my hopes and players to PS3 didn't surpass PS4? Wait...
This is not the first I'm reasonable in MC threads but others call me crazy, fan, unreadable, etc.
But nobody thanked or apologize to me after the truth come out ;)
I don't think that decision came from Platinum. It's not their own IP and they have no fund to start the project without Nintendo. It's not the case where Nintendo give the money to Platinum and let them choose which one they want to make or something.
Nintendo always have the weird thing with these niche games, Project Zero, Xeno series and now Bayonetta. They know it won't sale million ( or even half million for that matter ) but they still support/fund it somehow. As if they try to attract different demographic on their machine.
I remember reading from the interview somewhere, where the president of Platinum mention that they will start doing their own IP as they can't keep taking the project from other company and rely on their funding forever or something. I really hope we can see it soon. Selling little amount of copies is not the new thing to them, it has been going on since Clover studio day ( hence the closure by Capcom ). It's funny cause these are people who create many series that has been staple of Capcom for decades.
Regardless of how much I love their work, Platinum's original stuff is just too zany and out there for general audiences. It was kinda fitting that they hooked up with SEGA when they started out first because it was the kinda stuff I'd have expected to see them release after if they had survived the Dreamcast.
They are an immensely talented bunch of developers but the financial performance of their original games just shows that you need strong and most importantly appealing visual presentation as well.
They are an immensely talented bunch of developers but the financial performance of their original games just shows that you need strong and most importantly appealing visual presentation as well.
Monster Hunter World CAN'T STOP WON'T STOP
surprised by Bayonetta 2 numbers, they are pretty terrible. Even considering she was in Smash and all.
surprised by Bayonetta 2 numbers, they are pretty terrible. Even considering she was in Smash and all.
OP
OP
yeah, if nintendo is gonna release niche games, it would make way more sense to cater to the dedicated fans, by which i mean make the high-end special edition easily attainable to take our money. Bayonetta games have to be too expensive to fund just for the purpose of ticking a box on a lineup diversity checklist.
I'll probably wait before declaring any conclusions on this ports performance. Japan was on one of it's worse tracked regions and the UK performance was expected. It's more interesting to see how it performed elsewhere.
I think some of you really need to learn what "peak" means, seriously.
I also think that some of you need to stop acting like they've not been wrong a million times in the past and not be proud that you've boasted one prediction correct while making a fool of yourself all the other times lmao.
I also think that some of you need to stop acting like they've not been wrong a million times in the past and not be proud that you've boasted one prediction correct while making a fool of yourself all the other times lmao.
Shadow of the Colossus was 200k game.
Secret of Mana sold 1.5m units on SNES and the series was widely popular back then.
Yeah, that seems overly optimistic. Why would it peak now? It's been out in Japan for years. MHW alone will not revitalize the PS4. And there's nothing on the horizon to help with that either...
Yup. I would have preordered climax edition if available in the west.
Talking only about that, after all saying that 3DS support died after 2013 is disingenuous, that proves that gaming companies shouldn't alienate their fanbase basically bringing a game that everyone wanted in a form that no one asked. But who am I to say, It's their money in the table, not mine.
But It's kinda obvious that MP:FF sounded so bad for Nintendo that they actually were forced to put out the fire bringing back the two remarkable gameplay styles, 2D and 3D. People can argue that the ending of FF was a tip for the future of the series, but nothing makes me believe that it was envisioned when the project came out of the first draft and was approved.
Full of assumptions. How do you know that the PS4 hasn't already peaked? The data from this year so far is not necessarily representative of the whole year due to MHW and so that does not mean that the PS4 will sell 2 mil+.
Even if it sells 2 mil this year, that is only 8 mil total, say it drops down to 1.5 mil in 2019 and that's being very optimistic we are only looking at 9.5 mil PS4's. That is still a long way short of your 13-14 mil. The PS4 will have to sell well up until at least 2022 to achieve that.
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