renoch

Member
Jan 16, 2019
579
I think they got one more console left in clear third before they consider going third party. Idk, the Xbox one was such a disaster and it feels like Xbox is still paying for that.

Seriously? As long as they're selling well and have great revenue, what does it matter what position xbox comes in marketshare? Yeah, higher is better but just being in last place isn't a signal for them to sell the business off, especially when they're breaking revenue records
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,325
Seems to be doing well everywhere. Every thread there is always doom and gloom. When does this become a you problem and not an Xbox problem?
The continued hardware slide is an Xbox problem, Spencer has repeatedly said as much. Revenue is at an all time high but we have no idea what they're spending to bring in that revenue. People thought Starfield would stem the bleeding with their hardware sales and it doesn't seem to have done that, but has done well enough on PC that their overall numbers still appear to be solid. Things could be worse but they could be a lot better.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,753
the Netherlands
It leads to record breaking revenue?
Spending billions on new studios probably helped quite a lot there.
I dunno. If Sony ever allowed Game Pass on their platform, maybe I could see it happening. But that seems very, very unlikely to me.
Probably depends on what one means with Game Pass on PS5. I don't see why Sony would block a Game Pass version which only includes Microsoft published games, providing those games are of course also available for sale through the PlayStation Store on their own. Game Pass which includes 3rd party content? Yeah, the only way that ever happens is if the law forces Sony to allow it.
 

renoch

Member
Jan 16, 2019
579
I mean presumably a lot of this "growth" simply comes from the fact they purchased a multi billion dollar publisher (Bethesda) and that those combined numbers are making it look a lot better than it would otherwise.

Like in 12 months time once Acti/Blizz/King is included the growth will look insane but its not really a true reflection of the state of the business because its not natural growth of the Xbox brand but simply them buying up more third party publishers

Or am I wrong and these numbers are separate from Bethesda?

Why would they be separate, and why should they be separate? Bethesda, and now ABK, are part of xbox. It would be weird to not include them.
 

mojo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,993
Xbox hardware being down 7% in a Starfield quarter is a real head scratcher.
Xbox continues to beat people over the head with the fact that you don't need an Xbox to play their games so I'm not sure why people expect anything different. People will disagree but I think it's a dumb way to sell Xbox when the people who buy the console are the most invested and willing to spend money
 
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vixolus

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,977
I mean presumably a lot of this "growth" simply comes from the fact they purchased a multi billion dollar publisher (Bethesda) and that those combined numbers are making it look a lot better than it would otherwise.

Like in 12 months time once Acti/Blizz/King is included the growth will look insane but its not really a true reflection of the state of the business because its not natural growth of the Xbox brand but simply them buying up more third party publishers

Or am I wrong and these numbers are separate from Bethesda?
These numbers include Bethesda. They will eventually include ABK. Not really important to only look at net/total revenu. It is more about the expectations and growth %.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,836
The Milky Way
The problem has been, and continues to be, games. As more of the studios they've gobbled up begin to actually start releasing exclusive big Xbox titles, things will improve for them
That's only half the problem, the other half is the marketing, which pales dramatically compared to their competition. Much of their marketing feels like it's aimed at their existing customer base. It's weak. Let's see if they can step up their marketing as they step up their release schedule.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,109

View: https://twitter.com/Welfare_JBP/status/1716913020054769812

Weirdest part about the hardware decline is that this year, and this quarter with Starfield especially, has actually been full of Xbox "exclusive" games, whereas 2022 came and went with no major first party releases, yet managed to sell better. They need to take a different approach with their console marketing.

You can already see that software + services are already starting to level out and I think that will only increase as HW sales decline. I don't know how people see the 1:1 correlation between HW peaks and software + services peaks and think Xbox doesn't need HW
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
Xbox continues to beat people over the head with the fact that you don't need an Xbox to play their games so I'm not sure why people expect anything different. People will disagree but I think it's a dumb way to sell Xbox when the people who buy the console are the most invested and willing to spend money
Doesn't help games randomly skipping the platform, either. Why bother with an Xbox port if the hardware isn't moving?
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Xbox continues to beat people over the head with the fact that you don't need an Xbox to play their games so I'm not sure why people expect anything different. People will disagree but I think it's a dumb way to sell Xbox when the people who buy the console are the most invested and willing to spend money
I guess so. I am a bit confused about their strategy. They like to yell from on high that you don't need an Xbox console to engage with their ecosystem and yet they made Redfall, Starfield and future Bethesda games Xbox/PC exclusives to get people to buy their hardware presumably?
 

reksveks

Member
May 17, 2022
3,653
Has anyone kept track of the SW yoy numbers for EU, US and UK for the last quarter?

Curious to see how it compares.
 

vernacherMV

Member
Feb 5, 2021
426
Starfield just wasn't the game to entice casuals to pick up an Xbox. Those who wanted but don't have an Xbox, probably got it on PC.

It's not like consoles aren't selling in general, the switch and ps5 are doing great.
 

Deleted member 158819

Sep 19, 2023
2,257
IIRC Microsoft was expecting very little growth, to have another quarter of nearly doubt digit decline in hardware is crazy, especially in Starfield quarter.
 

Johnny Blaze

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,270
DE
Microsoft: Best quarter ever for Xbox.

Some Era users: it's over, they're going third party

Lmao
They are.

Biggest publisher by revenue on Android with King.

Biggest 3rd party game for the next 10 years on PlayStation (Probably) with the yearly COD

Microsoft is becoming one of the main 3rd parties across the board with the ABK acquisition.

Nadella doesn't care where the money comes from just keep it flowing.

They want game pass on PlayStation and switch.

Xbox is becoming more and more a service. The hardware is a side hustle.
 
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vixolus

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,977
You can already see that software + services are already starting to level out and I think that will only increase as HW sales decline. I don't know how people see the 1:1 correlation between HW peaks and software + services peaks and think Xbox doesn't need HW
Of course the HW peaks and software peaks are correlated. It's the holiday season.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,380
I guess so. I am a bit confused about their strategy. They like to yell from on high that you don't need an Xbox console to engage with their ecosystem and yet they made Redfall, Starfield and future Bethesda games Xbox/PC exclusives to get people to buy their hardware presumably?

Gamepass is on Xbox/PC. Seems pretty straightforward.
 

Damien1990

Member
May 23, 2020
2,164
GP quarter update (although unsurprising for this one).

September 2020: 15M subscribers
Q1 2021 "continued momentum"
Q2 2021: growth
January 2021: 18M subscribers
Q3 2021: growth
Q4 2021: growth
Q1 2022: growth
Q2 2022: growth
January 2022: 25M subscribers
Q3 2022: growth
Q4 2022: growth
Q1 2023: growth
October 2022: PC Game Pass +159% YoY
Q2 2023: growth ("new highs")
Q3 2023: growth
April 2023: +40 countries for PC Game Pass (86 overall)
Q4 2023: growth
Q1 2024: growth
With Live Gold being renamed to GP Core I thought that would have announced a new number with this report as it'd be impressive to say there are 50M+ subscribers but sounds like they've moved away from announcing numbers completely. Guess all we'll get is growth or expansions into new territories.

Not including Core, I'd guess they're probably around 32-33M subscribers. Probably won't hugely grow beyond that unless they expand the cloud/TV gaming initiative.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,780
South Central Los Angeles
I don't see why Sony would block a Game Pass version which only includes Microsoft published games, providing those games are of course also available for sale through the PlayStation Store on their own.

Yup. Sony would take that deal in a heartbeat.

But it would be dumb for Xbox, because as much as they publicly claim they aren't trying to compete in the hardware space, they're still very much competing in the hardware space.
 
Jun 5, 2023
2,738
Of course. It is a trade off they intentionally made because they saw the damage done from the Xbox One launch and no good way out of it. They make more money and more profit off selling software on Steam and PC than limiting it to just hardware. And that revenue growth from that is more than if they were to limit it to consoles. That's fine.

But selling more consoles while also selling more on PC would lead to overall increased revenue and long-term gains for the brand. That's why they *should* want to see an increase in both, not that they *have to* to sustain their operations.
I think this is what people are missing. Of course Microsoft would like to sell more consoles that would be more money. But the NEED is what's different in that equation for MS. If they're in third place making money I'm sure they can tolerate that. 3rd place for Nintendo or Sony only selling games on their machines is much uglier. I'm the end Xbox not doing numbers in hardware is always has posters with the "concern" soon but "disastrous concern" is probably not warranted.
 

Deleted member 158819

Sep 19, 2023
2,257
The problem has been, and continues to be, games. As more of the studios they've gobbled up begin to actually start releasing exclusive big Xbox titles, things will improve for them
I doubt any of their announced games will be able to match any effect Starfield could've had.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,641
Not that I am the average consumer but why would I buy an Xbox when I can build a pc? I am not against ms supporting ox, but if they want to plush hardware then having superior versions of their games on pc seems to go against that.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,393
I think they got one more console left in clear third before they consider going third party. Idk, the Xbox one was such a disaster and it feels like Xbox is still paying for that.

I see it a different way. They go with minimum specs they can get away with, like Series S2 only, and don't try to get into a spec war anymore. Maybe even try to profit off hardware instead of taking a loss next time. Still plenty of money to be made from their store for people that just prefer Xbox.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Gamepass is on Xbox/PC. Seems pretty straightforward.
I suppose. But they could have Starfield and other games on PlayStation for $70 and pick up sales from people who are entrenched in the PS ecosystem while simultaneously going "Hey....wouldn't you like to play Starfield and much more for only $17 a month?" to entice the folks that might be willing to pick up a second console.

That seems to be what they're doing with CoD.
 

reksveks

Member
May 17, 2022
3,653
IIRC Microsoft was expecting very little growth, to have another quarter of nearly doubt digit decline in hardware is crazy, especially in Starfield quarter.
They didnt give any expectations on hw last q, think we assumed flat but as I alluded to in a previous comment, a negative forecast could have worked
 

DrowsyJungle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
927
Tinfoil hat time. Maybe it's not a coincidence that we're seeing more Xbox console marketing now after the ABK deal closed. Could've not wanted to take a chance of losing that acquisition and sacrificing sales (appear weaker) was possibly something they were willing to endure to get it done.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,109
Of course the HW peaks and software peaks are correlated. It's the holiday season.
The non-peak portions still follow HW as well, it's just not as pronounced...

I guess so. I am a bit confused about their strategy. They like to yell from on high that you don't need an Xbox console to engage with their ecosystem and yet they made Redfall, Starfield and future Bethesda games Xbox/PC exclusives to get people to buy their hardware presumably?
Because they want people to buy their Xbox HW, but realize for their overall revenue to grow they need to expand past consoles alone (especially if those sales are declining)
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
The problem has been, and continues to be, games. As more of the studios they've gobbled up begin to actually start releasing exclusive big Xbox titles, things will improve for them
They just had Starfield, one of the most hyped games of recent times. What upcoming Xbox game is even similar in hype levels? Might as well have to wait until TES6.
 

Deleted member 158819

Sep 19, 2023
2,257
They didnt give any expectations on hw last q, think we assumed flat but as I alluded to in a previous comment, a negative forecast could have worked
They gave total growth expectations and C&S growth expectations, with that you could figure out hardware growth expectation, no?
Tbh, I always find Microsoft/Xbox earnings a bit boring, because they reveal almost nothing there.
Perks of being in a much bigger company is you don't have to answer for a whole lot.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,953
Where's he getting these specific dollar figures?
You can go through every quarter going back to 2014 and get these numbers through calculating all the percentage changes for content and services and hardware. Years ago Microsoft would also share the dollar amount change for content and services so it was pretty easy to find those numbers. Since then it just making sure the percentage changes match for all three segments. At most, the range of hardware and C&S will be single digit millions, so nothing relevant.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,731
Didn't they just drastically cut their investments in XCloud streaming recently? Or that was the rumor anyway?

If they don't care about Xbox hardware sales, and they cut investments in XCloud streaming development, are they thinking they'll make up by people subbing to GamePass on PC?
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,380
I suppose. But they could have Starfield and other games on PlayStation for $70 and pick up sales from people who are entrenched in the PS ecosystem while simultaneously going "Hey....wouldn't you like to play Starfield and much more for only $17 a month?" to entice the folks that might be willing to pick up a second console.

That seems to be what they're doing with CoD.

Sony doesn't want gamepass on PlayStation. They were hesitant to even allow ea's service on it. That's even more straightforward.

COD is not Starfield. And they've shown in years past they're willing to keep games on multiple systems where it makes sense…like Minecraft.

It's extremely frustrating to see this board be so in tune with everything in the industry yet continuously seem so baffled by their strategy. Even after years and years of seeing it.

Microsoft is not leaving the hardware industry. They're motto is you can play Xbox games where gamepass is available. And it makes absolutely no sense to try and get PlayStation. They do not need them to succeed in business.
 
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vixolus

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
56,977
Didn't they just drastically cut their investments in XCloud streaming recently? Or that was the rumor anyway?

If they don't care about Xbox hardware sales, and they cut investments in XCloud streaming development, are they thinking they'll make up by people subbing to GamePass on PC?
That was not a rumor - Phil himself said it in his testimony to the FTC which leaked not long ago. Single digit millions. And yes, they think they will have a lot of growth in PCGP. I am of the opinion they sandbagged xcloud solely for the duration of the acquisition and will return investment in it, especially with Sony now making drastic improvements to it.
 

Deleted member 158819

Sep 19, 2023
2,257
Sony doesn't want gamepass on PlayStation. They were hesitant to even allow ea's service on it. That's even more straightforward.

COD is not Starfield. And they've shown in years past they're willing to keep games on multiple systems where it makes sense…like Minecraft.

It's extremely frustrating to see this board be so in tune with everything in the industry yet continuously seem so baffled by their strategy. Even after years and years of seeing it.

Microsoft is not leaving the hardware industry. They're motto is you can play Xbox games where gamepass is available. And it makes absolutely no sense to try and get PlayStation. They do not need them to succeed in business.
Well it's a baffling strategy to buy a ton of studios, talk about software is so much more important to you, and then keep all that software on a console that is struggling hard even with a budget entry level option.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,396
New York City
This doesn't seem that bad but they gotta.get the hardware up. It'll start to effect other lines of business if it accelerated.
 

rrc1594

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,887
Sony doesn't want gamepass on PlayStation. They were hesitant to even allow ea's service on it. That's even more straightforward.

COD is not Starfield. And they've shown in years past they're willing to keep games on multiple systems where it makes sense…like Minecraft.

It's extremely frustrating to see this board be so in tune with everything in the industry yet continuously seem so baffled by their strategy. Even after years and years of seeing it.

Microsoft is not leaving the hardware industry. They're motto is you can play Xbox games where gamepass is available. And it makes absolutely no sense to try and get PlayStation. They do not need them to succeed in business.

Even more evident after Starfields success
 

Johnny Blaze

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,270
DE
you forgot Minecraft.
Yup, and ESO and probably a boatload of stuff that's in the pipeline.

Sure there will be PC/xbox exclusives still, but as someone posted prior, the Xbox brand is getting Microsoft-ified to the point that the hardware is not as important as it is to Sony and Nintendo.

So in a certain way "it is over", but more like that MS is over it if they sell the most plastic boxes or not.