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UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
19,696
United States
Yeah it'll be interesting to see how CoD on Switch 2 runs. Especially when CoD stops being developed for PS4 and Xbox One. I wonder how close to Series S the switch 2 can realistically get. Probably not that close, but maybe enough to make ports relatively easy.
Yeah, I think since they are targeting for Series S already they could possibly get in the ballpark. At least that's my hope. It will hypothetically have been 3ish years since Series S launch so.
Same, I'm very curious what their solution would be. The best bet is probably to use a dedicated support studio, right?
I think that's probably the best bet? Who knows, though. I hope they put a full-money effort into it and really make it shine.
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
From Idas Response from Sony

A new internal report from MLex says this:

Microsoft's Call of Duty deal with Nintendo is misleading, Sony argues

Sony has criticized Microsoft's deal to make the game Call of Duty available on Nintendo — should its $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard be approved by regulators — as smoke and mirrors, MLex has learned.

Activision Blizzard could supply Call of Duty to Nintendo today, but doesn't, because Nintendo's younger audience is not interested in the first-person shooter and a previous version of the game on its console was a commercial flop, the arch critic of the deal says, MLex understands.

Instead of being a logical business decision, the licensing agreement is a tactic designed to make Microsoft — whose acquisition has drawn concerns in the EU, UK and US — look cooperative with regulators, the argument goes.

Furthermore, Nintendo's Switch could not run Call of Duty easily and may never be able to, Sony argues, MLex understands. Developing a version of the game compatible with the Switch could take years, making a 10-year licensing deal meaningless.

It is easier for Nintendo to enter into such an agreement, Sony says, MLex has learned. Nintendo doesn't need to worry about equal treatment for its subscription service or cloud gaming service as those are not areas where it currently competes aggressively, the argument goes.

This shit is hilarious. Nothing would please me more than for Microsoft to win the lawsuit with the FTC.
 
Jan 15, 2019
4,546
From Idas Response from Sony

A new internal report from MLex says this:

Microsoft's Call of Duty deal with Nintendo is misleading, Sony argues

Furthermore, Nintendo's Switch could not run Call of Duty easily and may never be able to, Sony argues, MLex understands. Developing a version of the game compatible with the Switch could take years, making a 10-year licensing deal meaningless.

I love the implication here that Nintendo isn't going to release a successor to the Switch within the next decade
 

yhgtu

Member
Sep 12, 2021
1,756
It's not close though, is it? Did Sony not just sell nearly 3 times as many PlayStation's than MS sold Xbox's? And they're already significantly ahead this new gen despite being severely supply constrained and Xbox's being readily available in most places.

You're looking strictly at consoles, and not the whole gaming division. But the FTC just sued so clearly there's something here.

Of course this is all my opinion, but I think Sony has a case and things appear to be going in line with that.
 

Osiris397

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,455
You're looking strictly at consoles, and not the whole gaming division. But the FTC just sued so clearly there's something here.

Of course this is all my opinion, but I think Sony has a case and things appear to be going in line with that.
I think it comes down to how few large AAA game publishers there actually are and how impacted competition would be with MS owning 2 out of like 5 in total I think.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,757
From Idas Response from Sony

A new internal report from MLex says this:

Microsoft's Call of Duty deal with Nintendo is misleading, Sony argues

Sony has criticized Microsoft's deal to make the game Call of Duty available on Nintendo — should its $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard be approved by regulators — as smoke and mirrors, MLex has learned.

Activision Blizzard could supply Call of Duty to Nintendo today, but doesn't, because Nintendo's younger audience is not interested in the first-person shooter and a previous version of the game on its console was a commercial flop, the arch critic of the deal says, MLex understands.

Instead of being a logical business decision, the licensing agreement is a tactic designed to make Microsoft — whose acquisition has drawn concerns in the EU, UK and US — look cooperative with regulators, the argument goes.

Furthermore, Nintendo's Switch could not run Call of Duty easily and may never be able to, Sony argues, MLex understands. Developing a version of the game compatible with the Switch could take years, making a 10-year licensing deal meaningless.

It is easier for Nintendo to enter into such an agreement, Sony says, MLex has learned. Nintendo doesn't need to worry about equal treatment for its subscription service or cloud gaming service as those are not areas where it currently competes aggressively, the argument goes.

This literally reads like an era shit post where the user would be perma banned for trolling instantaneously
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,029
Houston, TX
Yeah it'll be interesting to see how CoD on Switch 2 runs. Especially when CoD stops being developed for PS4 and Xbox One. I wonder how close to Series S the switch 2 can realistically get. Probably not that close, but maybe enough to make ports relatively easy.
The gap between Switch 2 & current-gen will likely be smaller than Switch vs. PS4/XB1 going by the leaks.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,029
Houston, TX
Why do I feel like this is gonna result in more Switch 2 leaks (this time from Microsoft)?
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,355
Losing money on a deal because you end up shuttering the company you bought in an acquisition is not the same thing as having to recoup the purchase price of the company in order to replenish your cash reserves. The goal of a corporation is to earn profits every year, not to keep as much money in the bank as possible. Yes debates could be made about whether spending their cash on a different acquisition would earn more profits but the fallacy I'm talking about is the notion that they spent 70 billion on ABK so now ABK has to earn them 70 billion in order to refill their bank accounts. That's just not how it works.

The goal of a corporation is to maximize profits every year, if there is no growth then investors get shaky and want to go elsewhere. MS spent $70 billion to make more than $70 billion, not to finally make use of the money they have in reserves. Because unless they accomplish that, the $70 billion could have been used elsewhere. Its a return on investment they are of course seeking, not just having the assets because the valuations can change at a moments notice.

Yes there would…because call of duty didn't cost 70 billion…abk cost that much. Sony is making a fuss about COD…the deal is being scrutinized because overall it is massive.

They saying that now because they're aware that there's an audience for consoles, phones, pcs, and tvs. And they're not going anywhere in one generation.

And I'm still not seeing how growing an audience on multiple platforms, even one that has been dormant, points to future exclusivity. Every piece of actual evidence from Microsoft looks like they want certain franchises to be on as many devices as possible.

They'll have enough content to make other titles exclusive.

Sony is making a fuss because CoD is the elephant in the room. It is arguably the #1 reason MS wants ABK, but that is not to say the FTC doesn´t have an issue with the rest of the franchises becoming potentially exclusive. I am sure they will have arguments beyond CoD of why they want to block the purchase when it heads to trial.

And growing an audience means very little if your future intention is for anyone, anywhere to be able to play it.... on Game Pass and as long as the service is allowed on the platform. Again, the 10 year contract is really suspicious because once CoD has been on Game Pass for 10 years, who is to say that MS will even need it on PlayStation or Nintendo? Nintendo has done without for a decade as is, but PlayStation is fighting that very real possibility. All it takes is MS saying ¨We could not reach an agreement to renew out commitments¨ and nothing else can be done.

Would you trust Sony or Nintendo with owning such a massive franchise? I wouldn´t. Why should we trust MS though? Because they say to the public in PR statements that they want ¨gaming for all¨ as they struggle to get their record setting purchase approved? I am glad the FTC are being more discerning than just thinking good guy trillion dollar company won´t be exploitative with control over the largest gaming publisher
 

Meelow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,219
From Idas Response from Sony

A new internal report from MLex says this:

Microsoft's Call of Duty deal with Nintendo is misleading, Sony argues

Sony has criticized Microsoft's deal to make the game Call of Duty available on Nintendo — should its $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard be approved by regulators — as smoke and mirrors, MLex has learned.

Activision Blizzard could supply Call of Duty to Nintendo today, but doesn't, because Nintendo's younger audience is not interested in the first-person shooter and a previous version of the game on its console was a commercial flop, the arch critic of the deal says, MLex understands.

Instead of being a logical business decision, the licensing agreement is a tactic designed to make Microsoft — whose acquisition has drawn concerns in the EU, UK and US — look cooperative with regulators, the argument goes.

Furthermore, Nintendo's Switch could not run Call of Duty easily and may never be able to, Sony argues, MLex understands. Developing a version of the game compatible with the Switch could take years, making a 10-year licensing deal meaningless.

It is easier for Nintendo to enter into such an agreement, Sony says, MLex has learned. Nintendo doesn't need to worry about equal treatment for its subscription service or cloud gaming service as those are not areas where it currently competes aggressively, the argument goes.

Omg...lol Is Sony really trying to pull the "Nintendo is for children, PlayStation is for hard-core gamers and Switch is to weak" card?

Just for that I really hope COD either A. Doesn't appear on PlayStation (I have a PS5) or b. Switch version sells better then the PS version lol.

Arrogant Sony is back.

Also, if I were Nintendo I'd be pissed that Sony PR is trying to keep the "Nintendo is for kids" image, it's clear that Sony still thinks this of Nintendo and it's sad.
 
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Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,379
The goal of a corporation is to maximize profits every year, if there is no growth then investors get shaky and want to go elsewhere. MS spent $70 billion to make more than $70 billion, not to finally make use of the money they have in reserves. Because unless they accomplish that, the $70 billion could have been used elsewhere. Its a return on investment they are of course seeking, not just having the assets because the valuations can change at a moments notice.



Sony is making a fuss because CoD is the elephant in the room. It is arguably the #1 reason MS wants ABK, but that is not to say the FTC doesn´t have an issue with the rest of the franchises becoming potentially exclusive. I am sure they will have arguments beyond CoD of why they want to block the purchase when it heads to trial.

And growing an audience means very little if your future intention is for anyone, anywhere to be able to play it.... on Game Pass and as long as the service is allowed on the platform. Again, the 10 year contract is really suspicious because once CoD has been on Game Pass for 10 years, who is to say that MS will even need it on PlayStation or Nintendo? Nintendo has done without for a decade as is, but PlayStation is fighting that very real possibility. All it takes is MS saying ¨We could not reach an agreement to renew out commitments¨ and nothing else can be done.

Would you trust Sony or Nintendo with owning such a massive franchise? I wouldn´t. Why should we trust MS though? Because they say to the public in PR statements that they want ¨gaming for all¨ as they struggle to get their record setting purchase approved? I am glad the FTC are being more discerning than just thinking good guy trillion dollar company won´t be exploitative with control over the largest gaming publisher

Microsoft gains a foothold in mobile, more pc presence and ip. So…i highly doubt COD is the driving force. They gain way more than just cod here. It's small fries actually.

The ten year isn't suspicious…No real reason to promise longer beyond forum disputes.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,454
While Sony's raging petulant tone is really making me dislike them, I think they have a point.
I highly doubt Microsoft would have come up with these Steam and Switch contracts if it weren't for regulator scrutiny, it is absolutely a move they're doing just to improve their chances at the deal going through. And now, Sony will probably make their case more shaky with their really bullshit arguments.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,355
Microsoft gains a foothold in mobile, more pc presence and ip. So…i highly doubt COD is the driving force. They gain way more than just cod here. It's small fries actually.

The ten year isn't suspicious…No real reason to promise longer beyond forum disputes.

They targeted the biggest publisher and would be gaining the #1 gaming franchise out there not by coincidence. The FTC even stated MS intentionally misled regulators in EU to get Bethesda and went ahead and made games exclusive even after saying they would only do so in ¨implausible scenarios¨. It goes beyond CoD really but it is a painfully obvious problem for one platform holder pushing a gaming subscription service to get a hold of given the brand power and popularity of CoD.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,379
They targeted the biggest publisher and would be gaining the #1 gaming franchise out there not by coincidence. The FTC even stated MS intentionally misled regulators in EU to get Bethesda and went ahead and made games exclusive even after saying they would only do so in ¨implausible scenarios¨. It goes beyond CoD really but it is a painfully obvious problem for one platform holder pushing a gaming subscription service to get a hold of given the brand power and popularity of CoD.

Yes, it's no coincidence that they targeted abk…they have a massive catalogue, pc presence and mobile presence already rolling. Areas Xbox wants to get better as they keep on their quest to have gamepass on allot of devices and a steady content flow to feed it.

Where was the eu thing said? All i ever heard publicly was they would honor existing contracts and live service titles.
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
7,000
They targeted the biggest publisher and would be gaining the #1 gaming franchise out there not by coincidence. The FTC even stated MS intentionally misled regulators in EU to get Bethesda and went ahead and made games exclusive even after saying they would only do so in ¨implausible scenarios¨. It goes beyond CoD really but it is a painfully obvious problem for one platform holder pushing a gaming subscription service to get a hold of given the brand power and popularity of CoD.
They said they do so on a case by case basis
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,355
Yes, it's no coincidence that they targeted abk…they have a massive catalogue, pc presence and mobile presence already rolling. Areas Xbox wants to get better as they keep on their quest to have gamepass on allot of devices and a steady content flow to feed it.

Where was the eu thing said? All i ever heard publicly was they would honor existing contracts and live service titles.

They said they do so on a case by case basis

You guys are conflating PR speak to what they actually told regulators regarding their intentions. The FTC would not make that up in why they are suing to block the purchase. If you want to see the documents I suggest waiting for the trial, but no one beyond those handling or reviewing the purchase of Bethesda knew it before the FTC announce their lawsuit.
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
27,575
Florida
From Idas Response from Sony

Activision Blizzard could supply Call of Duty to Nintendo today, but doesn't, because Nintendo's younger audience is not interested in the first-person shooter and a previous version of the game on its console was a commercial flop, the arch critic of the deal says, MLex understands.

Yes because Nintendo would never be interested in putting an M-rated game on their system and if so, would never give that game exclusive DLC and/or prominent spots on a Nintendo direct because Skyrim and Witcher 3 don't exist.

Also Diablo 3.

Man if and when this deal goes through and all these guys have signed deals except Sony,
I can picture Spencer looking over at Ryan and going:


anya_heh_thumbnail.jpg

(COD will still be on Ps though. Deal or no deal, MS won't let that money go to waste and they'll say something like "it's just business, we ain't mad")
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
7,000
You guys are conflating PR speak to what they actually told regulators regarding their intentions. The FTC would not make that up in why they are suing to block the purchase. If you want to see the documents I suggest waiting for the trial, but no one beyond those handling or reviewing the purchase of Bethesda knew it before the FTC announce their lawsuit.
I took the words right from the document
 

RobbRivers

Member
Jan 3, 2018
2,045
Nintendo's younger audience?? 🤣🤣🤣

So they are pretending that we are still on the early 00s?

Isn't switch core demographics 20-35?
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
7,000
And in their announcement, they used ¨implausible scenarios¨ as what MS said to regulators. I really doubt they would falsely claim as much if it wasn´t stated somewhere
We are talking about the FTC that has made it look like Nintendo isn't a market leader or isn't even in the equation despite there be 100 million users.

We all know that's not true
But with that kind of reasoning I don't expect them to have any gotcha that will hold up in court.
 

Mr_F_Snowman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,979
The last COD game on a Nintendo console is almost a decade ago. Black Ops II on Wii U was 2013. We're a few weeks away from 2023.

"COD has a long history of ignoring Nintendo consoles" is literally what you said - and is simply untrue barring the Switch. It hardly skips any Nintendo console historically.

If you mean COD started to skip entries once the Wii U flopped and never returned - say that
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,355
We are talking about the FTC that has made it look like Nintendo isn't a market leader or isn't even in the equation despite there be 100 million users.

We all know that's not true
But with that kind of reasoning I don't expect them to have any gotcha that will hold up in court.

What they think of Nintendo´s position in the market is not the same as making a claim that they determined MS misled regulators in their investigation and are suing to block the purchase.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,379
You guys are conflating PR speak to what they actually told regulators regarding their intentions. The FTC would not make that up in why they are suing to block the purchase. If you want to see the documents I suggest waiting for the trial, but no one beyond those handling or reviewing the purchase of Bethesda knew it before the FTC announce their lawsuit.

I didn't conflate anything..i asked where was it stated. You could've just linked to the other thread.
 

StudioTan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
The goal of a corporation is to maximize profits every year, if there is no growth then investors get shaky and want to go elsewhere.
Yes and that is about spending the 70 billion on what is going to get the most return on that money each quarter/year. The growth is about using that money wisely to get the biggest return, not the need to recoup it.

MS spent $70 billion to make more than $70 billion, not to finally make use of the money they have in reserves. Because unless they accomplish that, the $70 billion could have been used elsewhere. Its a return on investment they are of course seeking, not just having the assets because the valuations can change at a moments notice.
This is incorrect. With the upcoming changes in interest rates they money would have been worth less over time if it just sat in the bank. The valuation was already set to change negatively. That's one of the incentives to use that money instead of it sitting there losing value with inflation.

Maybe the acquisition will make them 70 billion in the very long term and maybe it won't. What's important is how the company performs on a yearly basis. I would suggest you stop trying to say "MS needs to do so and so in order to recoup that money" when that's not reality. They want sustained growth of the company. Look at it this way, if ABK is making them 500 million a year in profits they're not going to look at it as a failure until it's made the 70 billion. If it's making them money it's a good investment, if it's not it's a bad investment. The purchase price isn't really a factor when they had the cash to cover it unless you want to argue that something else they would have spent that money on would have brought back a higher yearly return.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,355
Yes and that is about spending the 70 billion on what is going to get the most return on that money each quarter/year. The growth is about using that money wisely to get the biggest return, not the need to recoup it.


This is incorrect. With the upcoming changes in interest rates they money would have been worth less over time if it just sat in the bank. The valuation was already set to change negatively. That's one of the incentives to use that money instead of it sitting there losing value with inflation.

Maybe the acquisition will make them 70 billion in the very long term and maybe it won't. What's important is how the company performs on a yearly basis. I would suggest you stop trying to say "MS needs to do so and so in order to recoup that money" when that's not reality. They want sustained growth of the company. Look at it this way, if ABK is making them 500 million a year in profits they're not going to look at it as a failure until it's made the 70 billion. If it's making them money it's a good investment, if it's not it's a bad investment. The purchase price isn't really a factor when they had the cash to cover it unless you want to argue that something else they would have spent that money on would have brought back a higher yearly return.

Are you really arguing ¨They had to spend the money because of interest rates?¨ now? I already said they could have used the money for other purchases or investments, but no matter how you look at it $70 billion is a whopper of a purchase that is likely to see a return. But given the fact that the entire structure of ABK would shift to Game Pass for console games, one that had been built around seeing revenue from yearly CoD games that sell tens of millions of copies per launch, they irrefutably couldn´t just make it exclusive in the near future because they NEED to start seeing a ROI. They still count on standard game sales and PlayStation would still be the driving force behind CoD sales unless there is some unlikely mass Game Pass shift overnight when the first CoD on GP releases.

I mean it is $70 billion we are talking about here, they want to make that much money back as soon as they can. It is not pocket change even for MS...
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,422
Are you really arguing ¨They had to spend the money because of interest rates?¨ now? I already said they could have used the money for other purchases or investments, but no matter how you look at it $70 billion is a whopper of a purchase that is likely to see a return. But given the fact that the entire structure of ABK would shift to Game Pass for console games, one that had been built around seeing revenue from yearly CoD games that sell tens of millions of copies per launch, they irrefutably couldn´t just make it exclusive in the near future because they NEED to start seeing a ROI. They still count on standard game sales and PlayStation would still be the driving force behind CoD sales unless there is some unlikely mass Game Pass shift overnight when the first CoD on GP releases.

I mean it is $70 billion we are talking about here, they want to make that much money back as soon as they can. It is not pocket change even for MS...
Well looking at MS' numbers they make 70 bil in profit like every six months. They don't really have to see a short term return on their investment if it is keyed to a goal like growing gamepass or their market share. That is what reinvesting your profits into growth means.
 

dudu0609

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,403
Basically this thread can be locked, right?
The deal is dead, so the concession does not mean anything now.
 
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