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Troll

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
3,278
MS needs to buy Remedy and relegate them to avatar and other miscellaneous support projects until they've made good on forcing Microsoft to overpay for QB.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Also, a share of QB's issues came from the live action series, and that came from, uh, Microsoft.
Remedy have always been somewhat obsessed with television. A lot of Alan Wake was foreshadowed in the Address Unknown TV show in Max Payne 2. I don't see how Quantum Break's TV episodes were in any way out of step with Remedy's previous work, including American Nightmares which featured extensive live action Mr Scratch scenes. I see people talk as though Microsoft pushed the live action series onto them when every single Remedy game revolves around TV in some aspect.
 

Troll

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
3,278
Remedy have always been somewhat obsessed with television. A lot of Alan Wake was foreshadowed in the Address Unknown TV show in Max Payne 2. I don't see how Quantum Break's TV episodes were in any way out of step with Remedy's previous work, including American Nightmares which featured extensive live action Mr Scratch scenes. I see people talk as though Microsoft pushed the live action series onto them when every single Remedy game revolves around TV in some aspect.

TV and live action aren't really the same. And the live action idea was pitched to Microsoft as a part of Alan Wake 2, that's why they had portions of it in the DLC. MS gave that a hard pass because they wanted Remedy on a new IP. That's how this all came about.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,488
I don't really agree with you there. I feel that QB had a LOT of issues, just like Alan Wake, that could be fixed in a second game, resulting in a legit amazing product.

Max Payne was really cool. Max Payne 2 was fucking AMAZING.

Also, a share of QB's issues came from the live action series, and that came from, uh, Microsoft. Just like the MP thing in Obsidian's RPG. I don't mean they were exclusively at fault, but the lack of focus in Xbox One earlier years clearly hurt many of it's games that were in development.
To follow up what Dr. Caroll said "In the early concept of Alan Wake 2 that we took to Microsoft ... there was the idea of it being episodic and in between having live action episodes," Sam Lake told me. It was Remedy's idea, of course AW2 evolved into QB because MS was more interested in a new IP. XES was originally going to handle the show, but with XES being shuttered that caused some issues (and the overall rejection to TV TV TV.)
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,587
Realistically speaking what would it take for Halo to reach former glory and can 343i pull it off with Infinite?

It seems this is the game where they're really going back to the drawing board, taking their time etc. Finally getting off their outdated engine etc

SP campaign needs to be a masterpiece. Sony-level storytelling and visuals and a return to the feeling of having agency about how you progress.

On the MP side, Without getting into a mechanics debate, I think there are other strengths that haven't been fully realized by bungie or 343.

Forge is the biggest thing. That Mode was Minecraft/Roblox before either existed, but the content discovery platform still isn't where it needs to be. I should be able to matchmake into the communities most popular creations w/o waiting for 343 to curate a Playlist.

The controls need to go back to being super simple. Depth should come from mastery of the weapon sandbox and map knowledge. The weapon sandbox should go back to being designed so that weapons are unique and serve niche use cases, rather than having 2-3 analogs for each gun.

They need to be more creative with the weaponry in general. Having weapons that could be contested that enhance movement and open up new strats/routes on the map would be a much interesting way to enhance mobility than all previous attempts at changing base mechanics.

Matchmaking needs to be streamlined. There are way too many Playlists. The lates MCC update suggests 343 is headed in the right direction. I think There should be 1) a single ranked competitive Playlist that mirrors the esport. 2) An exhibition Playlist that works like MCCs new Composer matching, but with an XP progression system like H3 and 3) a social section that allows people to matchmake into unranked dev gametypes and community creations.

I also think it would benefit from a Multiplayer tutorial and bots for training.

Yo we still talking Halo!

Sorry man. Halo is xbox for a lot of people. And its the sole reason I haven't been able to purchase a console from another manufacturer since 2001. I'll never be able to stop talking about it.

Except that was the old SWB games not the DICE game thats ranked in the NPD chart, SWB 2015 was an entirely different beast and has lifetime sales of 14 million copies. But yes a Halo game performing at peak would outsell SWB 2015 in NPD by a large amount, but it's not as bad as your making out even removing the exaggerated effect.

What? The entire point is that Halo is largely competing against the exact same franchise it's been competing against for the last 15+ years. Having more competition isn't an excuse for Halo declining, when all these other, equally old franchises still found ways to grow, astronomically, despite Dealing with the same amount of competition.

How is Halo getting beaten on its own console, by franchises it used to beat across all systems "not as bad as I'm making out". That wreaks of missed opportunity.

When we snap into reality, we realize the Battlefield franchise is just 1 year younger than Halo. COD is just 2 years younger than Halo. Rainbow 6 is 3 years older than Halo. Counter-Strike is 1 year older than Halo. Battlefront is 3 years younger than Halo. So why is it that all these old-ass shooter franchises are kicking major ass in the modern market, but Halo's decline gets handwaved due to "increased competition"?

Why didn't increased competition slow anyone else down? It's not just because they made changes - its because they made the right changes while preserving what needed to stay the same. And that's not to say no mistakes were made with the aforementioned competition, but they generally didnt spend the better part of a decade in denial about them.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
8,447
Remedy have always been somewhat obsessed with television. A lot of Alan Wake was foreshadowed in the Address Unknown TV show in Max Payne 2. I don't see how Quantum Break's TV episodes were in any way out of step with Remedy's previous work, including American Nightmares which featured extensive live action Mr Scratch scenes. I see people talk as though Microsoft pushed the live action series onto them when every single Remedy game revolves around TV in some aspect.

I'm not saying it was something only from MS, but it's lack of focus earlier this gen definitely hurt the game. They closed the studio that was working on QB's live action part.

To follow up what Dr. Caroll said "In the early concept of Alan Wake 2 that we took to Microsoft ... there was the idea of it being episodic and in between having live action episodes," Sam Lake told me. It was Remedy's idea, of course AW2 evolved into QB because MS was more interested in a new IP. XES was originally going to handle the show, but with XES being shuttered that caused some issues (and the overall rejection to TV TV TV.)

That's what i'm talking about.
 

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,984
SP campaign needs to be a masterpiece. Sony-level storytelling and visuals and a return to the feeling of having agency about how you progress.

On the MP side, Without getting into a mechanics debate, I think there are other strengths that haven't been fully realized by bungie or 343.

Forge is the biggest thing. That Mode was Minecraft/Roblox before either existed, but the content discovery platform still isn't where it needs to be. I should be able to matchmake into the communities most popular creations w/o waiting for 343 to curate a Playlist.

The controls need to go back to being super simple. Depth should come from mastery of the weapon sandbox and map knowledge. The weapon sandbox should go back to being designed so that weapons are unique and serve niche use cases, rather than having 2-3 analogs for each gun.

They need to be more creative with the weaponry in general. Having weapons that could be contested that enhance movement and open up new strats/routes on the map would be a much interesting way to enhance mobility than all previous attempts at changing base mechanics.

Matchmaking needs to be streamlined. There are way too many Playlists. The lates MCC update suggests 343 is headed in the right direction. I think There should be 1) a single ranked competitive Playlist that mirrors the esport. 2) An exhibition Playlist that works like MCCs new Composer matching, but with an XP progression system like H3 and 3) a social section that allows people to matchmake into unranked dev gametypes and community creations.

I also think it would benefit from a Multiplayer tutorial and bots for training.

this sounds great. (unsure of the weapons that enhance movement / create new routes bit though). i'm pumped for infinite, i think 343 is going to nail it.

and i love all the thread whinning about halo discussion. yes, can we please go back to dreaming about what studios microsoft will buy next?
 
Oct 26, 2018
2,227
this sounds great. (unsure of the weapons that enhance movement / create new routes bit though). i'm pumped for infinite, i think 343 is going to nail it.

and i love all the thread whinning about halo discussion. yes, can we please go back to dreaming about what studios microsoft will buy next?
I speculative They're buying back bungie and gonna make a sci-fi shooter called oblivion
 

rrc1594

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,883
this sounds great. (unsure of the weapons that enhance movement / create new routes bit though). i'm pumped for infinite, i think 343 is going to nail it.

and i love all the thread whinning about halo discussion. yes, can we please go back to dreaming about what studios microsoft will buy next?

I don't mind taking Halo it's my fav series of all-time, it just feels a lot of convo goes in circles.
 

papahefe

Member
Apr 29, 2018
346
It does go in circles, and has taken over the last few pages of this thread. It's played out, and seems to belong elsewhere, like it's own Halo thread perhaps.
 

Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
Who owns Baldurs gate? The only one I ever played was Dark ALliance 2 and I fking LOVED IT. Shame it's not on Steam.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,426
Who owns Baldurs gate? The only one I ever played was Dark ALliance 2 and I fking LOVED IT. Shame it's not on Steam.
I think it's 1 of those weird situations where multiple parties have some say in it. Instead of just 1 owner of the I.P. I think it's Beamdog has control of mainline (numbered) Baldur's Gate games, but not Dark Alliance.
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,718
https://twinfinite.net/2018/12/xboxs-phil-spencer-xo-e3/


https://twinfinite.net/2018/12/phil-spencer-xbox-failure-pc-dna/

Spencer also feels that it's good to have three Xbox studios in southern California. Like what Microsoft is building in the U.K., it's cool to have centers where teams can get together. This is something Rare did with Playground Games and Ninja Theory after their acquisition. There is a lot of creative sharing between the teams, and it "can only lead to good things happening."

I feel like this is something people are REALLY overlooking when it comes to their acquisitions, they're clearly building these development hubs in these hotspots with these studios, that's why Turtle Rock makes a lot of sense becuase it's quite literally down the road from Obsidian and inXile, I think they are looking at studios that are based in places where they have existing studios such as Stockholm (Mojang), and Canada with Compulsion (Montreal) and The Coaliton (Vancouver).

I'm fine with never seeing a Quantum Break sequel. I thought the game was fine, but it didn't blow my mind or anything. It was a 7.5 and I don't think a sequel would be worth the price. Jez or Rand also said on either this week's or last week's Xbox Two podcast that he had heard that some at Microsoft felt that Remedy had burned them a bit and the game cost way too much to make for what it was. There's a reason that game isn't in development right now. The thing Microsoft needs to avoid, as part of this revival of the brand, is overpaying for games, especially from studios they don't own. A first-party overspending on a project is a learning experience, a second-party overspending on a project is a sunk cost.

Another consideration is the other studios Microsoft could partner with on a project with a similar scope as QB2 (From, Platinum, Insomniac, Techland, Bluepoint, etc.) are all far more compelling, in my opinion.

Dosent surprise me, wasn't Quantum Break one of the first XB1 games they announced?, IIRC that game was supposed to be out in 2013/14?
 

Deleted member 48991

User requested account closure
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Oct 24, 2018
753
I feel like this is something people are REALLY overlooking when it comes to their acquisitions, they're clearly building these development hubs in these hotspots with these studios, that's why Turtle Rock makes a lot of sense becuase it's quite literally down the road from Obsidian and inXile, I think they are looking at studios that are based in places where they have existing studios such as Stockholm (Mojang), and Canada with Compulsion (Montreal) and The Coaliton (Vancouver)
Good point, but Montreal and Vancouver are far apart, most US east coast cities (if not all of them) are closer. If they are shopping for a Canadian studio, why not Digital Extremes?

Still think they should try to make a deal with Leyou to buy out their western operations (Digital Extremes in Canada, Certain Affinity in Texas, Athlon Games in California [publisher of a new Lord of the Rings MMO] and Splash Damage in the UK).
 

papahefe

Member
Apr 29, 2018
346
Good point, but Montreal and Vancouver are far apart, most US east coast cities (if not all of them) are closer. If they are shopping for a Canadian studio, why not Digital Extremes?

Still think they should try to make a deal with Leyou to buy out their western operations (Digital Extremes in Canada, Certain Affinity in Texas, Athlon Games in California [publisher of a new Lord of the Rings MMO] and Splash Damage in the UK).

Doesn't Digital Extremes do Warframe? I'm not sure I see them adding *another* sci-fi multiplayer shooter to their lineup.
 

Deleted member 268

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
5,611
Can someone at Microsoft just go slap Phil and tell him to buy Falcom? Please?

be014f1033264564.gif
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
I feel like this is something people are REALLY overlooking when it comes to their acquisitions, they're clearly building these development hubs in these hotspots with these studios, that's why Turtle Rock makes a lot of sense becuase it's quite literally down the road from Obsidian and inXile, I think they are looking at studios that are based in places where they have existing studios such as Stockholm (Mojang), and Canada with Compulsion (Montreal) and The Coaliton (Vancouver).



Dosent surprise me, wasn't Quantum Break one of the first XB1 games they announced?, IIRC that game was supposed to be out in 2013/14?
IIRC it was supposed to come out in 2014, as Ms said the games they announced at the reveal would come in the first year.

I did think the game was fantastic, but still there's lots that can be improved on the sequel: more combat, more crazy enemy and that the puzzles are more realized with the potential the universe provides.
 

Hubi

Member
Nov 13, 2017
487
Deck13 would be a nice addition. They make games that would add something new to the library
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,803
Deck13 would be a nice addition. They make games that would add something new to the library

I keep saying that for alot of time already indeed. But there is something going on with money from the government etc. But i doubt MS needs extra money etc.
I also still think Asobo still would be a great addition and they have history with MS already. With some games and even Hololens. I think MS needs a mainland Europe studio.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,298
The thought of Tabata now working with MS in the future brielfy crossed my mind this morning. Unlikely, but man, Tabata without Square-Enix! Finally.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,423
You said Xbox doesn't need Halo, when Halo has been a proven best seller for the platform for a decade+ and is still it's best selling franchise now. Declining in this instance is you claiming it's irrelevant. It's not.

The Xbox isn't Sony and doesn't have the luxury of having a ton of well reviewed and selling IP's this generation and even then, writing off GoW and Uncharted still makes little sense as they're a major part of Sony's success too.

Halo is Xbox my dude.
Tell us that when Ninja Theory, Playground, Obsidian and Initiative start outputting games.

Equating one singular franchise to the platform is the very reason why fatigue kicked in initially. Xbox should (and will) become about multiple successful IP. Don't get me wrong Halo needs to come back in a big way, but it shouldn't be the one and done IP for MS, not anymore. There are audiences for all the genres.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,587
this sounds great. (unsure of the weapons that enhance movement / create new routes bit though). i'm pumped for infinite, i think 343 is going to nail it.

For the record, I'm just talking about using weapon physics to get around. Rocket/grenade jumping, concussion bouncing. In H5 you going use the Void Tear vortex to get extra momentum. That kind of thing.

I'm just saying use a damage+physics model and have weapon properties that people can learn to use beyond just killing.

This kind of approach could add depth and variety w/o making the game feel more complex for beginners
 

Super Havoc

Banned
Aug 24, 2018
1,771
The Haven
Tell us that when Ninja Theory, Playground, Obsidian and Initiative start outputting games.

Equating one singular franchise to the platform is the very reason why fatigue kicked in initially. Xbox should (and will) become about multiple successful IP. Don't get me wrong Halo needs to come back in a big way, but it shouldn't be the one and done IP for MS, not anymore. There are audiences for all the genres.


Those studios aren't currently doing that though are they? This isn't me saying nothing else matters for the Xbox, or that no other studio adds value but that the Xbox was built off the success of Halo. There is no debate to be had here on that.
 
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StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Halo did define the original Xbox, but since then, It's really just been one of their games. Last-gen, yeah, Halo 3 was the 360 release, but even then, overall I'd say that gen, Gears was the series that defined the platform in terms of exclusives. And this gen, I don't know? Horizon I'd guess? Next-gen is anyone's guess. I have extremely high hopes for Fable personally.

Halo is, and will always be key to the Xbox brand, but its importance within Microsoft's portfolio has been on the decline from day one.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
I think a Day One Halo for Xbox Game Pass will do wonders for the community size. I really enjoyed Halo 5 but from Halo 2 onwards, it has been slowly drifting.
 

Steverulez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,424
I feel like theres some revisionist history on Halo going on here, Halo 3 was absolutely huge, if you want to argue its fallen off since then I wont argue but the series peaked there really and 343 have struggled big time to bring it back.

Hopefully Infinite can be better than their other efforts which have had glaring problems
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
1m+ concurrent players.

And I think Gears 5 can achieve it to.

Game Pass is the game changer.

Fully Agree. They are bound to lean into some GaaS stuff, which should lengthen the lifespan of the community. Something like the stuff they had in Halo 5 makes more sense knowing how MS views Game Pass and GaaS stuff.
 

hmqgg

Member
Nov 1, 2017
221
Tell us that when Ninja Theory, Playground, Obsidian and Initiative start outputting games.

Equating one singular franchise to the platform is the very reason why fatigue kicked in initially. Xbox should (and will) become about multiple successful IP. Don't get me wrong Halo needs to come back in a big way, but it shouldn't be the one and done IP for MS, not anymore. There are audiences for all the genres.

For The Initiative, I think there is a long way to go. There are only several employees right now, and the expansion is in the very first step.

The variety of IP is important, and I believe many (for next gen) are WIP.
 

Deleted member 19924

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3,543
Halo and Gears are like the elder statesmen of the Xbox brand, they're strong franchises but when you rely on them so much they start to tire and decline. Hopefully these new studios pump out good stuff to lessen the weight those two franchises have to carry.
 

Deleted member 48991

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Oct 24, 2018
753
Doesn't Digital Extremes do Warframe? I'm not sure I see them adding *another* sci-fi multiplayer shooter to their lineup.
In my opinion, even though MS has sci-fi shooters, they ain't got nothing like Warframe. Besides it being a very unique game (I would categorize it as a third person sci-fi looter shooter, but that doesn't really seem to do it justice with the open world aspects added within the last two years), it is also massively profitable, bringing in tens of millions of dollars a year. Digital Extremes are an amazingly talented, passionate and dedicated studio, which you can clearly see if you consider how much work they are putting into extending the world of Warframe and how the game has steadily grown into a top 10 game on Steam.
 
Nov 23, 2018
878
Halo and Gears are like the elder statesmen of the Xbox brand, they're strong franchises but when you rely on them so much they start to tire and decline. Hopefully these new studios pump out good stuff to lessen the weight those two franchises have to carry.
I agree regarding "rely on them so much they start to tire and decline" to an extent - if a developer does not innovate.

I think both 343i and The Coalition are innovating and we will see that in Halo: Infinite and Gears 5. Alternative ways of innovation include the Slipspace Engine and new types of games to increase brand awareness and audience reach (i.e., Gears Pop and Tactics).

Also, just want to point out I'm with you on the other new studios pumping out quality experiences - can't have enough good games!
 
Oct 26, 2018
2,227
Tell us that when Ninja Theory, Playground, Obsidian and Initiative start outputting games.

Equating one singular franchise to the platform is the very reason why fatigue kicked in initially. Xbox should (and will) become about multiple successful IP. Don't get me wrong Halo needs to come back in a big way, but it shouldn't be the one and done IP for MS, not anymore. There are audiences for all the genres.
Bt most gaming companies are known for at least 1 hugely popular up ( Nintendo =Mario, Xbox=halo , Sega= sonic, SE= final fantasy , etc. )
 

Troll

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
3,278
Halo did define the original Xbox, but since then, It's really just been one of their games. Last-gen, yeah, Halo 3 was the 360 release, but even then, overall I'd say that gen, Gears was the series that defined the platform in terms of exclusives. And this gen, I don't know? Horizon I'd guess? Next-gen is anyone's guess. I have extremely high hopes for Fable personally.

Halo is, and will always be key to the Xbox brand, but its importance within Microsoft's portfolio has been on the decline from day one.

I think a big reason why Xbox has had a poor gen is due to a loss of identity. Xbox isn't Halo, that's incredibly naive. But it's an important part of what makes Xbox. Just like raw power, just like Xbox live, ect.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
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Oct 28, 2018
1,353
And the same is true for Quantum Break. It was one of my favorite game this generation (and maybe my favorite time travel story ever), but I don't see how you can make a sequel without destroying this amazing story.
I haven't played the game in a while, so I can't remember all the details. But doesn't QB end with a cliffhanger of Jack saying he's going after Beth? And Martin was up to some shady shit? To me the ending felt more like a "to be continued", which I think lends itself nicely to a sequel.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
I think a big reason why Xbox has had a poor gen is due to a loss of identity. Xbox isn't Halo, that's incredibly naive. But it's an important part of what makes Xbox. Just like raw power, just like Xbox live, ect.
I don't see that Xbox has done particularly poorly this gen. It's not doing as well as it did last time, but people act like they won the last generation, when they ultimately came last, with a year head start.

I also don't buy the power narrative. This is the first generation the most powerful console has ever won. It's not a proven relation to market performance at all. I would say the Xbox probably did have the edge over the Gamecube, but it certainly didn't seem like a blow out, which is equally true with PS3 last generation.

I think if anything, Xbox One just lost the 'dudebro' audience, but I think that audience seems to have kind of disappeared. In the same way that Halo was the hotness, last gen it was Gears and CoD, but now it's? Fortnite? I don't know, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive core title this generation, so MS can't cater to that audience with any exclusivity.

I think when it comes to next-gen, MS only really have the US to battle over, but to outsell Sony there, they need to identify what the hotness will be, and get it either exclusively, or with some serious exclusive co-marketing/timed map packs, etc.

It could certainly be that Halo Infinite is some sort of industry defining Battle Royale that if included with Game Pass day one, would lock up the US for MS from day one. We shall see.
 

B.C.

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Sep 28, 2018
1,240
Halo did define the original Xbox, but since then, It's really just been one of their games. Last-gen, yeah, Halo 3 was the 360 release, but even then, overall I'd say that gen, Gears was the series that defined the platform in terms of exclusives. And this gen, I don't know? Horizon I'd guess? Next-gen is anyone's guess. I have extremely high hopes for Fable personally.

Halo is, and will always be key to the Xbox brand, but its importance within Microsoft's portfolio has been on the decline from day one.
Comments like these are funny. Halo is on the decline and has dropped on the scale of important franchises for the Xbox brand, but we've got pages and pages of people talking about the Halo legacy in a thread about new, recent acquisitions.

Gamers kill me. Give them Halo, "we're sick of Halo! Gimme sumthin new!

Take Halo Away, "Bring back Halo - what the hell are 343 doing?!? Cowards, the lot of 'em!"

Dafuq, tho?!
 
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