Same here. I'll spend those dollars on Ukrainian devs.
Smh at the whataboutism in this thread though.
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Mundfish (Atomic Heart), Owlcat (Pathfinder), Weappy (This is the Police), Unfrozen, Eschatology Ent and bloody russian money from Gazprom & VTB Bank
- Thread starter Calibro
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Same here. I'll spend those dollars on Ukrainian devs.
Smh at the whataboutism in this thread though.
I've looked into this in the first week or so of the war to see what they'll say in the Steam forums. The vibe I got was that the devs are anti-war, but are being reasonably careful about making this stance too public.
I am waiting for in-depth reviews/analysis to see whether the alt-future rogue KGB agent ends up reminiscing or criticizing the Soviet utopia gone wrong. if it's the latter, I might still play the game on GamePass.
Iconography itself isn't a problem. I can guarantee you that GSC isn't going to "de-communize" Prypyat or any other locale in the game that's got decaying Soviet iconography all over.
It's also notable that Mundfish (or Focus?) chose Alla Pugacheva's "Arlekino" as soundtrack for the latest trailer. Pugacheva is a pop legend from 70s who openly spoke out (carefully) against the war and has been recently listed as a "foreign agent" by the Russian government. Her current husband, comedian Maxim Galkin was much more forceful in his condemnation. Both of them are currently in exile in Israel.
This is a loaded topic, so I don't think we should be drawing any premature conclusions.
I am waiting for in-depth reviews/analysis to see whether the alt-future rogue KGB agent ends up reminiscing or criticizing the Soviet utopia gone wrong. if it's the latter, I might still play the game on GamePass.
Iconography itself isn't a problem. I can guarantee you that GSC isn't going to "de-communize" Prypyat or any other locale in the game that's got decaying Soviet iconography all over.
It's also notable that Mundfish (or Focus?) chose Alla Pugacheva's "Arlekino" as soundtrack for the latest trailer. Pugacheva is a pop legend from 70s who openly spoke out (carefully) against the war and has been recently listed as a "foreign agent" by the Russian government. Her current husband, comedian Maxim Galkin was much more forceful in his condemnation. Both of them are currently in exile in Israel.
This is a loaded topic, so I don't think we should be drawing any premature conclusions.
It's crazy that this has to be said but…yes, this.
If AH devs are cheering on the war that's one thing but it'a not their fault they're Russian. I say this as someone who doesn't even play FPS games so has no dog in the fight.
You know, boycotting artists because of the country they were born is maybe not the best idea?
I don't see anything in the posts by the Twitter user (who has 22 followers and joined 1 month ago, btw) other than the links (from before the war) to now sanctioned banks. Like, yeah, no shit, the biggest banks in Russia got sanctioned, what did you expect?
Also the whole premise is kinda inaccurate already as it was pointed out Mundfish representatives have spoken out against the war. And Owlcat has mentioned many of its Russian employees were relocating.
I don't see anything in the posts by the Twitter user (who has 22 followers and joined 1 month ago, btw) other than the links (from before the war) to now sanctioned banks. Like, yeah, no shit, the biggest banks in Russia got sanctioned, what did you expect?
Also the whole premise is kinda inaccurate already as it was pointed out Mundfish representatives have spoken out against the war. And Owlcat has mentioned many of its Russian employees were relocating.
Glad to see people talking about other countries committing atrocities too. It's not just Russia. Its international.
I wanted to know how big all those developers are & when the investments happened as the whole Twitter thread is a bit harder to follow, so I looked into each of the mentioned companies, their sizes, plus at what point in time investments into each were made by GEM. All of it was data readily available through press statements & PitchBook.
Mundfish has 59 developers & secured funding by GEM, Tencent & Gaijin in January 2021.
Owlcat has 120 employees & has raised funding from GEM + My.Games in December 2019.
Weappy are a Belarussian developer between 11-50 employees big & raised funding from GEM back in April 2021.
Unfrozen has 35 developers & received investment from GEM in August 2021.
Eschatology Ent has 40 employees & received funding by GEM & Cali-based The Games Fund in November 2022.
So all in all, all those fundings aside from the Eschatology Ent one happened before the official start of the Russian invasion on February 24th 2022.
Doesn't mean that they couldn't support the war behind closed doors & that getting investments from GEM isn't awful given, you know, everything. But I'd wager it's different than big companies getting funds who have enough reach to get them elsewhere considering all these devs are smaller (mostly indie? though I'm not sure how people classify indie today, if they aren't indie once they get funding or marketing deals from e.g. Microsoft) & surely can't shit money.
Not saying that people shouldn't choose who they want to support with their money like usual (I myself generally stay away from spending money on all kinds of shit that's connected to wars, bigotry & human sufffering whenever I can), I just think it's a bit off to blame small developers for fundings that happened before the 2022 invasion. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about small developers getting funds from Tencent. A lot of them sadly can't pick & choose & have to take whatever they get if they're not just a handful of friends developing a game after work & need to actually pay their employees.
I see it differently when it comes to big companies + military games that get money from the military. Think Microsoft, Activision, Call of Duty. That's shit I could never support in good conscience, but I know many love their military games so it generally falls on deaf ears.
Mundfish's VK publishing part absolutely sucks, no doubt about that. And I'm pretty sure the USSR-ish imagery part is due to the game's setting. Haven't seen any outright symbols or anything, but I only have the video & pics in the thread to go on anyway. And like many others have mentioned - I can 100% understand why small Russian developers (even if they relocated & have many devs in different countries) might be worried about officially openly opposing the war & only do it on Discord where it's harder to notice. Do with all of that info whatever you want - be it supporting the devs or not.
Also, just to be sure, I am absolutely not downplaying the dogshit invasion or saying that you shouldn't criticize people for taking money from horrible companies backed by horrible people. I just personally don't feel good about acting like developers with mostly 2-digit-sized employee counts are openly supporting the war due to fundings they got before the invasion. But your mileage might vary.
Mundfish has 59 developers & secured funding by GEM, Tencent & Gaijin in January 2021.
Owlcat has 120 employees & has raised funding from GEM + My.Games in December 2019.
Weappy are a Belarussian developer between 11-50 employees big & raised funding from GEM back in April 2021.
Unfrozen has 35 developers & received investment from GEM in August 2021.
Eschatology Ent has 40 employees & received funding by GEM & Cali-based The Games Fund in November 2022.
So all in all, all those fundings aside from the Eschatology Ent one happened before the official start of the Russian invasion on February 24th 2022.
Doesn't mean that they couldn't support the war behind closed doors & that getting investments from GEM isn't awful given, you know, everything. But I'd wager it's different than big companies getting funds who have enough reach to get them elsewhere considering all these devs are smaller (mostly indie? though I'm not sure how people classify indie today, if they aren't indie once they get funding or marketing deals from e.g. Microsoft) & surely can't shit money.
Not saying that people shouldn't choose who they want to support with their money like usual (I myself generally stay away from spending money on all kinds of shit that's connected to wars, bigotry & human sufffering whenever I can), I just think it's a bit off to blame small developers for fundings that happened before the 2022 invasion. For what it's worth, I feel the same way about small developers getting funds from Tencent. A lot of them sadly can't pick & choose & have to take whatever they get if they're not just a handful of friends developing a game after work & need to actually pay their employees.
I see it differently when it comes to big companies + military games that get money from the military. Think Microsoft, Activision, Call of Duty. That's shit I could never support in good conscience, but I know many love their military games so it generally falls on deaf ears.
Mundfish's VK publishing part absolutely sucks, no doubt about that. And I'm pretty sure the USSR-ish imagery part is due to the game's setting. Haven't seen any outright symbols or anything, but I only have the video & pics in the thread to go on anyway. And like many others have mentioned - I can 100% understand why small Russian developers (even if they relocated & have many devs in different countries) might be worried about officially openly opposing the war & only do it on Discord where it's harder to notice. Do with all of that info whatever you want - be it supporting the devs or not.
Also, just to be sure, I am absolutely not downplaying the dogshit invasion or saying that you shouldn't criticize people for taking money from horrible companies backed by horrible people. I just personally don't feel good about acting like developers with mostly 2-digit-sized employee counts are openly supporting the war due to fundings they got before the invasion. But your mileage might vary.
Sorry OP, I'm not going to not play a Game Pass game because the devs happen to be Russian. You can't just cancel literally everyone from one of the largest countries in the world because of their terrible barbaric government/leader. Especially when they could be at risk of severe repercussions were they to speak out.
I've said before in other threads around this game that I'm not comfortable playing it, everything about the development and its studio has always seemed dodgy. Even more so since the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine.
I don't feel comfortable giving this studio money, I don't feel comfortable even downloading it with Game Pass and will give it a huge swerve no matter the reviews.
Fuck Mundfish.
I don't feel comfortable giving this studio money, I don't feel comfortable even downloading it with Game Pass and will give it a huge swerve no matter the reviews.
Fuck Mundfish.
This is where I'm at. This seems like pretty intense allegations without a ton of evidence. Not gonna affect my choice if I play it or not.
![00Quan[T]](/data/avatar/31681832007/115484-m.jpg){kind=avatar}
This, I don't even think they can openly be against anything even.
I'd certainly be afraid if I were them.
People got banned here when linking Tencent to the Chinese government but this is fine? Russians speaking out against the war are risking their and their family's lives. They relocated their studio, left their country, family and friends. What else can we expect from them?
Also there's some misinformation in the OP. I'm pretty sure USSR symbols aren't banned in Poland nor Latvia. You aren't allowed to show those symbols in public events to glorify the communist regime. You can use them everywhere else and you can see them frequently in all kinds of media.
Still fair though to not spend any money on the games, so no money goes to Russia but portraying those devs as supporters of the war doesn't seem right to me.
Also there's some misinformation in the OP. I'm pretty sure USSR symbols aren't banned in Poland nor Latvia. You aren't allowed to show those symbols in public events to glorify the communist regime. You can use them everywhere else and you can see them frequently in all kinds of media.
Still fair though to not spend any money on the games, so no money goes to Russia but portraying those devs as supporters of the war doesn't seem right to me.
Everyone has a right on who and what studios they support. Money going into this studios hands means money into the hands of the Russian government which means money used to killing Ukranians. I'm not delusional enough to think that Russia is the only country commuting atrocities, although It's fair to say the breadth of Russian War Crimes are staggering.
I'm sure others will have reasons for avoiding Chinese developers, American developers etc and that is your choice and yours to make.
I'm sure others will have reasons for avoiding Chinese developers, American developers etc and that is your choice and yours to make.
Well the United States backs the UN and they've been raping and murdering Africans for decades.
I don't support sanctions or any form of collective punishment against Russian civilians. I will be buying this game in protest. In fact, I'm of a mind to boycott games from any country that supports sanctions against not just Russia, but countries like Cuba, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, etc which are not at war with anybody and yet children are starved for political reasons. Say whatever you will about the Ukraine war, sanctions are used liberally against even very poor countries that threaten nobody.
People here think that Mundfish employees should be speaking up against the war while Russian Oligarch are flying out of balconies for doing that every other week are fucking insane.
Be mad at Putin and the Russian government, there is no need to take your frustration out on the regular civilians just because they were born in the wrong place.
Be mad at Putin and the Russian government, there is no need to take your frustration out on the regular civilians just because they were born in the wrong place.
I don't think it's whataboutism really, it's asking to have a more reasonable discourse with better evidence than to simply put it out there as a morally imperative.
I understand if people want to boycott anything related to Russia, but I do think people should make that decision with the proper facts.
I also don't think people disagreeing with the fact that buying this game is morally wrong is whataboutism. If anything, it shows the fallacy of those trying to declare it as an evil thing.
Again, boycott it if you want. I just don't think it's healthy to dismiss all conversations on the subject.
Glory to Ukraine
Who cares about these people's safety, some people on era DEMAND that they publicly speak up against the war against Ukraine and they should abide or they're obviously vile pro war scum.
Well we don't actually know if they're really pro war but those same people on era said they were so they must be.
Well we don't actually know if they're really pro war but those same people on era said they were so they must be.
This is where I'm at. I think I'd need to see some more concrete evidence of pro-war leanings before I toss anyone in the metaphorical bin.
Honestly should just lock the thread until some actual facts are presented proving what's trying to be sold here (if there are any). Sounds like a whole lot of assumptions.
Didn't most of Owlcat devs managed to move out of Russia and the company isn't registered there anymore?
But in general a company or a person living in the country can't make anti-war statement or they are going to gulags.
Keep in mind that most of the support is coming from outside major cities, and most of younger, urban and educated population is generally against the war. This is basically a lot of devs. In a way, think where MAGA support in US is coming from or can recently be seen in Brazil with their right wingers.
But in general a company or a person living in the country can't make anti-war statement or they are going to gulags.
Keep in mind that most of the support is coming from outside major cities, and most of younger, urban and educated population is generally against the war. This is basically a lot of devs. In a way, think where MAGA support in US is coming from or can recently be seen in Brazil with their right wingers.
Yeah I heard people talking about this on reddit months ago. Wasn't going to buy the game after, I immediately unwish listed it from Steam.
Nailed it.
Everyone is so determined to find the next thing that pisses them off, they end up being outraged online just so everyone can see them. This is the equivalent, at this point, of virtue signaling. Should things change, or actual evidence come to light, obviously that should be taken seriously.
It's a tricky one because they can't even speak out against the government there. Should they be held responsible for that? I don't think so personally. So much if what we consume already goes to other less reputable countries anyway, at a certain point we just have to accept that there is no such thing as ethical consumption and do the best we can on an individual basis.
They basically want equivalent to posting that Dear leader Xi is an autocratic dictator who is horrible for China alongside CCP.
Anti-War postings basically can make you disappear much like anti-Xi/anti-CCP postings in China.
(Re Atomic Heart) I don't know about the developer's position but the Russian government did endorse the game at least verbally and it is being promoted as an example of importozameshenie (import replacement). The game's success is also likely to be twisted into something by the propaganda. So if you care about the ethical side of things it's better to stay away for now.
Yeah this thread is bizarre.
It's kind of absurd to expect a developer in Russia to come out against the war or say anything anti Russia. The amount of stories of prominent Russians and people of other nationalities getting assassinated by the Kremlin are staggering.
The financial aspect applies to most of game developers and publishers. MS takes alot of money from US Defense Department and a lot of Japanese companies have strong ties to organized crime…
You can boycott this game because money may be taxed and that tax may support the war, that's a valid reason to me. To claim that the studio and everyone working there is pro war or hasnt denounced the war goes too far. Being anti-war and being loud about it can be legitimately dangerous for Russians. People in a country are not that country's govermenet. It's a very slippery slope to demand to know where someone stands when that stance has serious consequences.
And it's worth considering that even people who have managed to move out of the country can't necessarily speak up against it, because the likelihood is they didn't manage to bring all of their family and loved ones with them, and this is a regime that will go after your family.
You, uh... you caught the last 20 years of geopolitics, right?
Yeah, they have devs across many countries and many of the Russian ones relocated after the war started, and they were always registred in Cyprus -- so no tax money going directly to Russia, etc.
Yep, much the same as China.
Also, 20 years, come on, US have been doing this shit since 1950s if we are talking about modern era.
Hell, half the reason Taliban is in power is that US supplied arms to it in 1980s to fight the Soviets.
Or Iran and helping overthrow legit elected government to get Shah on the throne which lead to current Iran regime.
Or "banana republic" shenanigans.
Or supporting Suharto regime in Indonesia and millions of people getting killed.
Or... I can go on.
Mind you I am not saying other countries don't / didn't pull this shit, bit don't cast stones in glass houses and all that.
Oh, and yeah, fuck Putin and his fucking war that is costing so many lives, drove millions of Ukrainians to refugees, but also repressing Russia's people as well. In general, fuck autocrats.
yeah, I'm not gonna go too hard on anyone in russia or has family in russia for not disparaging the russian war campaign, as horrible as it is
if you don't want to support this game because you don't want your money going to russia, you're free to do so. Just don't vilify people who most likely live in fear
if you don't want to support this game because you don't want your money going to russia, you're free to do so. Just don't vilify people who most likely live in fear
Fair, I focused on the last 20 years because that's been my adult life and so the stuff that's fresh in my own memory, but it goes back way further. My own country (UK) is very much in the 'shouldn't throw stones' house as well. A lot of us are living under administrations or the successors of administrations which have hurt and killed a lot of civilians, and likely in less fear for our lives and loved ones for speaking out against it than the average Russian.
It is pretty easy to sit on a computer in a Western country and click your tongue at people for not being vocal enough against their government. Hounding them on social media to make a public statement and shit. It must be tiring trying to navigate those waters.
Yep, and for regular people Putin and Co dont even bother with the whole "fell out of a window" setup.
I kept buying american games after the Iraq invasion , I think I will keep buying these games , at the end of the day, is how many degrees of separation are enough for your conscience
We can't judge people on here for why and how and what they consume when it comes to media. Because that is a slippery slope. As far as I am aware, all consoles are made in China, so you might as well throw them out the window then. Oh wait, you cant play games on your phone because the majority of them worth a damn have some sort of chinese backing. Saudi have invested into Capcom and Nintendo, no zelda for you! And I am not even going to go into the stuff the U.S has done. Ultimately, the world is so linked and so connected that everything you do benefits a bad country in some way. There are certain lines one can draw - and that is up to the individual - but we have to stop calling people out for this sort of stuff. Making people aware is fine of course and then they can make their own decisions, but we shouldnt be judged for our purchasing decisions.
The game looks great, and I'm stoked to play it.
To be clear...playing/supporting it, or not, won't make a single bit of difference in regards to what's happening between Russia and Ukraine.
But I get it, stand for something or fall for anything.
To be clear...playing/supporting it, or not, won't make a single bit of difference in regards to what's happening between Russia and Ukraine.
But I get it, stand for something or fall for anything.
I'm shocked that this is not a more common stance in this thread, unilateral hate against people because they were born in a certain place is so, so wrong.
So much of this exhausting internet shit feels super performative.
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