• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

OSHAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,934
It's clearly defined wedge issue. "Defund the police" is going to be hijacked by the GOP to misrepresent its purpose. It's already happening.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,578
Just say "restructure public safety". It gets to what you want without getting bogged down in the GOP's talking points.
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,097
Just say "restructure public safety". It gets to what you want without getting bogged down in the GOP's talking points.

Ding ding ding.

Messaging is everything, and putting faith in American independent/swing voter to not fuck it up when you don't have time to let your actual message sink in is a bad fucking move.

The problem is absolutely the word, not the idea, yall. When some jackass says "DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD" you know exactly what they mean. It's an easily twisted word with history, whereas restructure/reform/fix is not, in that sense. Play chess, not checkers.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,342
"I support the energy behind it. I don't know what that substantively means. As I'm talking to people about the concept, I've gotten three different explanations," said Johnson, who has criticized Trump. "We know there has to be a change in the culture of policing in this country."

It feels like there's a lot going around about what "Defund the police" actually entails
 

RockTiddies

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
551
Ding ding ding.

Messaging is everything, and putting faith in American independent/swing voter to not fuck it up when you don't have time to let your actual message sink in is a bad fucking move.

The problem is absolutely the word, not the idea, yall. When some jackass says "DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD" you know exactly what they mean. It's an easily twisted word with history, whereas restructure/reform/fix is not, in that sense. Play chess, not checkers.

Exactly!

The history of the words usage tells you plenty of what the optics brings.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
I'm starting to get whiplash from the comments here. "He can be replaced." Seriously? How do you intend on making that happen?
 

bulbasort

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
383
Just say "restructure public safety". It gets to what you want without getting bogged down in the GOP's talking points.
"Restructure public safety" is wishy-washy and weak. Cities can make some minor change at the margins, say "We did it!", and then change it back once people aren't paying attention. This is the problem with incrementalism. Bold changes are the only ones that have sticking power, and you need bold slogans to make that happen.
 

Senator Rains

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,340
Ding ding ding.

Messaging is everything, and putting faith in American independent/swing voter to not fuck it up when you don't have time to let your actual message sink in is a bad fucking move.

The problem is absolutely the word, not the idea, yall. When some jackass says "DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD" you know exactly what they mean. It's an easily twisted word with history, whereas restructure/reform/fix is not, in that sense. Play chess, not checkers.


I'm not sure that this would help much with messaging regarding GOP because they'll still twist and attack it, but it will definitely gain traction with non-batshit crazy people.
 

kess

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,020
About the same tack Sanders has been taking. To the uneducated, "defund the police" sounds like Redneck Rob is going to go Mad Max or Socialist Antifa Drug Lords are going to take over omg
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,993
As others have said, better messaging is to say restructure the police. In fact there are ways to make even police supporters charitable to the cause by pointing out that right now the cops also do jobs that they shouldn't be doing, like interacting with the homeless and other types of social work.

At the end of the day there will be massive backlash from police unions against any kind of change but at least the majority of the population will be supportive of the cause and the results will ultimately be in favor of those seeking justice.
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
2,031
Just say "restructure public safety". It gets to what you want without getting bogged down in the GOP's talking points.
This. Climate change was, once upon a time, global warming. Then people said it was snowing outside and that was that.

Defund the police will make people think "stop giving money to public safety" and thats all the GOP wants to make it.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
I think the local calls to defund and even abolish and start anew are perfectly fine and good. The more I see out of places like Seattle, Portland, Austin, etc., show that to be more than a valid method of fixing those issues. Protesters have high approvals even as they are chanting/calling for defunding police.

I maintain that as a local protest movement, "Defund" is great.

On the federal level, I see the apprehension for using it and yeah be careful there so as to not muddy the waters in election mode, as long as the overall goals of the movement aren't crapped on.
 

SpottieO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,624
Calling for the removal of the leader of the NAACP because he doesn't buy in to or understand the shit optics of defund the police is absolutely absurd.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
I'm starting to get whiplash from the comments here. "He can be replaced." Seriously? How do you intend on making that happen?
Calling for the removal of the leader of the NAACP because he doesn't buy in to or understand the shit optics of defund the police is absolutely absurd.
What I meant was if he's not down for the cause we can look to new leadership in the NAACP or disregard it entirely. Now isn't the time for people and organizations to start getting reservations

these organizations ain't been doing shit for years
 

bulbasort

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
383
This. Climate change was, once upon a time, global warming. Then people said it was snowing outside and that was that.

Defund the police will make people think "stop giving money to public safety" and thats all the GOP wants to make it.
The switch from "global warming" to "climate change" was a deliberate attempt at controlling the narrative and defanging environmentalists, spearheaded by GWB. https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps...change-lets-go-back-to-global-warming.144085/

Likewise, avoiding "abolish/defund the police" is attempting to take energy away from police abolitionists.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Gonna quote myself from a previous thread:
Having time to think about I think I get where these is coming from now. But I will say 2 things here

First, Biden, or any other Democrat, if they were somehow on board with defunding the police (and by defunding I mean slashing their budgets and redirecting into social goods and services) it'll be their job as politicians to try to sell this concept to the American electorate not on activists. So let's say I concede for the sake of argument that phrasing of "defund the police" is electorally toxic now and will be at least until November. Well then I guess they can try to communicate this message in a way that isn't? Like, there's some options here.

Someone like Biden can probably argue "we're making the job harder on cops by giving them too many responsibilities. Cops are our mental health workers, social workers, guidance counselors in schools, drug abuse consolers, animal control and more. We need to refocus the job of the police on fighting crime and solving cases and invest social workers and other experts to handle these social ills". Something like that. if that's too "radical" then he fallback to the language of reform but it will be on those of us who are activists to actually push him further.

This brings me to my second point and that that Biden didn't even say he wanted reforms. He said the police are willing to reform themselves let's give them more money to do it. What this communicates to me is he's not interested in reforms at all. There's much needed reforms at the federal level he and the house Dems can pursue like ending drug criminalization, ending criminalization of sex work, he can vow to end operation relentless pursuit and a whole host of others I'm forgetting. Instead of committing to any of that he tells us the cops can reform themselves let's give them even more money. This reads as someone who isn't interested in changing anything at all despite the protests despite the outcry despite the massive support this movement is gaining.

So yeah I still remain disappointed (but not surprised) with all that said even while conceding for the sake of argument that defund the police is an electorally alienating slogan for a politician like Biden to adopt. It's not that he hasn't adopt that position it's just he isn't offering the movement anything
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,582
Except it's not just GOP that doesn't understand what it means, it's everyone. Just shows it's a bad slogan.

Yeah when people who would otherwise support the ideas behind a movement don't support the movement because they misunderstand a tagline that has a giant asterisk next to it, then you picked a bad slogan.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
It's pretty clear that Defund the police is not getting the actual mission across well at all and thus no officials want to say it. They don't think it says what should happen, but does manage to cause fear or anger in the public to hear.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
defund the police is simply at terrible rallying cry. If you have to constantly explain that it actually means reducing the role of the police and redirecting the funds to specialized services, it's no good

defund the police*
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
defund the police is simply at terrible rallying cry. If you have to constantly explain that it actually means reducing the role of the police and redirecting the funds to specialized services, it's no good
I remember Black people had to do this with Black Lives Matter and Black Pride before that.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
now it feels like some of you are about to say defund the NAACP for not agreeing to say defund the police... can't believe some of you turn that easy on people who actually know how to sell a policy to the public to move forward.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Like you'd think that now, more than ever, would be a great time to highlight how rotten the institution is at a fundamental level. The time to really underline how the bulk of the prison industrial complex exists to perpetrate slave labor and whatnot. Or at least acknowledge how unsalvageable so many police departments are across the country and how impossible they actually are to reform without tearing them down and starting over.

The message is radical because the needs are radical.

But already, Democrats want to dilute the message and negotiate from an already-compromised position of weakness. They will never stop running in fear of their own shadows. Ever.

defund the police is simply at terrible rallying cry. If you have to constantly explain that it actually means reducing the role of the police and redirecting the funds to specialized services, it's no good

defund the police*
What, are we gonna insist on jumping behind All Lives Matter next?
 

dyelawn91

Member
Jan 16, 2018
470
I remember Black people had to do this with Black Lives Matter and Black Pride before that.
But I don't think it was the president of the NAACP taking issue with the slogans in those cases? I'm willing to be wrong, and if black activists have decided that defund/abolish the police is what we're going with, I'm certainly not going to question it in any of my own activism, but I do think it's pretty bad branding.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
now it feels like some of you are about to say defund the NAACP for not agreeing to say defund the police... can't believe some of you turn that easy on people who actually know how to sell a policy to the public to move forward.
The NAACP isn't a perfect institution and they sure as hell aren't above criticism.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
No it doesn't what are you talking about
the phrase itself is easily suggesting to many civilians that there's a call to not have police. it reminds them of abolish ICE and doesn't say what the goal is. it sounds like taking away public safety instead of fixing it. there's a reason elected officials won't say it, and it isn't because they have no clue how to pass new policy compared to the internet.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Yes it does. Plenty of folks confuse defund the police for disband the police. It's a confusing tag line.
Plenty of folks in the movement, on the ground organizing people are using the the phrase. You said it misrepresents the goals of the movement well the people in the movement beg to differ. You're flat out wrong on that.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,578
"Restructure public safety" is wishy-washy and weak. Cities can make some minor change at the margins, say "We did it!", and then change it back once people aren't paying attention. This is the problem with incrementalism. Bold changes are the only ones that have sticking power, and you need bold slogans to make that happen.
But it's exactly what most policy makers are discussing, it actually can improve things, and it blunts a talking point that can drag progress down.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
It's really only here that 'defund' is popular. Everywhere else it's a non starter.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I think this has a negative connotation at face value vs saying reform. Reforms can include fund reallocation.