Will Nintendo reveal the Switch's successor this year?

  • It's happening

    Votes: 916 62.2%
  • It's not happening

    Votes: 557 37.8%

  • Total voters
    1,473

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,271
SLI (two GPUs working together) is dead is the biggest issue, and Nvidia/Nintendo are not going to invest to fix it. In theory you could make the upscaler external, except DLSS 2 doesn't work that way at all, with all the vector information needing to be baked in. Unless you want to shut off the internal GPU and make a stronger external GPU that takes over when docked, but that sounds very expensive.

Switch 1 OG is downclocked in handheld so as not to burn your hands and to not drain the battery so fast it bulges. GPU clocks double once its docked when it doesn't have to worry about those things anymore. I expect Switch 2 clocks will be arrived at in the same way, with the caveat that tensor cores will activate to bring typical 1080p docked render up to 4K.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
There's a pretty huge differential between handheld resolution and 4K, right now they really only have to go from 720 to 1080, I would imagine the dock having its own hardware could help predominantly in that arena, DLSS aside.
excessive hardware just to get closer to 4K is a waste of money in the days of upsampling. and the fact that the average player couldn't tell resolutions to save their lives. there are plenty of people playing Switch on 4K tvs without problems so I don't think this extra hardware is necessary
 

BDGAME

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,090
Brasília
excessive hardware just to get closer to 4K is a waste of money in the days of upsampling. and the fact that the average player couldn't tell resolutions to save their lives. there are plenty of people playing Switch on 4K tvs without problems so I don't think this extra hardware is necessary
I play switch and ps4 on my 4K TV because that TV has a fucking amazing upscale. So good that if I have to choose between 4K with average graphics or 1080p with the best output, I will choose the latter without think for a second.

My biggest complain with switch is the lack of anti aliasing, that I hope DLSS can fix it.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,608
SLI (two GPUs working together) is dead is the biggest issue, and Nvidia/Nintendo are not going to invest to fix it. In theory you could make the upscaler external, except DLSS 2 doesn't work that way at all, with all the vector information needing to be baked in. Unless you want to shut off the internal GPU and make a stronger external GPU that takes over when docked, but that sounds very expensive.

Switch 1 OG is downclocked in handheld so as not to burn your hands and to not drain the battery so fast it bulges. GPU clocks double once its docked when it doesn't have to worry about those things anymore. I expect Switch 2 clocks will be arrived at in the same way, with the caveat that tensor cores will activate to bring typical 1080p docked render up to 4K.

reasonable. Best thye might do is take lessons from the OG switch cooling in docked mode and beef that up - maybe a fan in the dock to allow a larger/slower/quieter fan and keep the handheld unit simpler?
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,271
Those external cooling fans you can buy have always been a scam, so I think they'd be hard pressed to make one that actually works in the dock. They just need to design the dock around whatever vents they put on the Switch itself, and that was already true of the OG Switch.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,596
that still begs the question of why and having the gap be too large. and the increased costs the making multiple chips, boards, etc. if a developer prioritizes the docked mode, then what about primarily handheld players? or the hypothetical Switch 2 Lite players? we're already seeing this problem with the Series X and S with Balder's Gate 3 and we don't know how MS is going to handle that

Past the midpoint of Switch's life it's become a common trend to have games that perform better in portable mode than docked, since portable aims for much lower resolutions. Switch 2 will make that gap much bigger, since docked will now be aiming for 4k (native or otherwise) and portable probably still 720p. Something extra on the dock could help achieve parity on both modes, not increase the difference. But I doubt Nintendo would do it anyway.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Past the midpoint of Switch's life it's become a common trend to have games that perform better in portable mode than docked, since portable aims for much lower resolutions. Switch 2 will make that gap much bigger, since docked will now be aiming for 4k (native or otherwise) and portable probably still 720p. Something extra on the dock could help achieve parity on both modes, not increase the difference. But I doubt Nintendo would do it anyway.
if it's about parity, then you already have that when you design for portable first. at that point, all docked mode is doing is increasing the resolution. that's what DLSS helps with in scaling to 4K. you don't need any extra hardware
 
Jan 13, 2022
1,807
This damned avatar made me try to wipe a dog hair off my phone screen for an embarrassingly long period of time. 😂


UZeN1mD.png
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
A lot of rumor about hardware and graphics but… nothing about new gimmick? What are you hoping for/expect?

I only want Nintendo Land back so maybe a portable that can stream to the dock/tv for asymmetric gameplay 😅
I like the DualSense a lot and think the features should be added to a Switch 2 controller. Perhaps they can even improve some of the features. I don't need much else to be honest, because I basically just want a switch 2.
 

Truno

Member
Jan 16, 2020
5,048
Not that big of an update as this is NoA and they probably won't mention anything interesting, but Doug Bowser commented on new hardware during an interview with the Washington Post:

Q: When is the next Switch coming out? What kinds of features or new capabilities would you like to see?

A: As we enter the seventh year for the Nintendo Switch, sales are still strong. I think we still have a very very strong lineup coming. As Mr. Furukawa (Nintendo President Shuntaro Furukawa) said recently, we're entering uncharted territory with the platform. It's exciting to see that demand is still there. So nothing to announce on any future console or device, but we are still feeling very bullish about Nintendo Switch. I should be careful about what I personally would like to see (in a new Switch). But what I can share is that one of the reasons that even going into year seven we feel very confident that the Switch can have a strong performance over the next few years is that it is still truly that unique device that you can play in a variety of ways, at home, on the go. One of the things we look at always is how can we surprise and delight. How can we introduce new unique ways of playing. That's always in front of our mind.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Nintendo's AI upscaling patent was updated back in January 2023. nothing really revelatory, but shows it's an active field of research for them.

US20230019874A1 - Systems and methods of neural network training - Google Patents

A computer system is provided for training a neural network that converts images. Input images are applied to the neural network and a difference in image values is determined between predicted image data and target image data. A Fast Fourier Transform is taken of the difference. The neural...
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,634
Chicagoland
Nintendo's AI upscaling patent was updated back in January 2023. nothing really revelatory, but shows it's an active field of research for them.

US20230019874A1 - Systems and methods of neural network training - Google Patents

A computer system is provided for training a neural network that converts images. Input images are applied to the neural network and a difference in image values is determined between predicted image data and target image data. A Fast Fourier Transform is taken of the difference. The neural...

Would this be related to Nvidia DLSS being part of the T239 SoC and nvn2 API ?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Would this be related to Nvidia DLSS being part of the T239 SoC and nvn2 API ?
no in that it's not affiliated with Nvidia. it's Nintendo's home-grown AI upscaler that leverages tensor cores. it could possibly be used for Drake, but we probably won't know beyond the one off mentions like NERD did with the Mario Sunshine upscaling

my belief is that Nintendo wants something of their own so they don't have to rely on Nvidia for every solution
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,634
Chicagoland
no in that it's not affiliated with Nvidia. it's Nintendo's home-grown AI upscaler that leverages tensor cores. it could possibly be used for Drake, but we probably won't know beyond the one off mentions like NERD did with the Mario Sunshine upscaling

my belief is that Nintendo wants something of their own so they don't have to rely on Nvidia for every solution

That's actually really interesting when I think about it.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
given that it has it period, the extra cost and power consumption is "worth it". IMO, it just further points to 4N to me. a lot about Drake doesn't completely fit with 8nm unless it was suited for devices like Orin, where size, power consumption, and heat don't matter
I very much hope so, a 8nm chip in 2024 might be good enough at launch but it would age horribly in the long run. Imo.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
Lites were meant to be a lower cost entry point and they seemed to have missed the mark there vs. how many were produced. That's still no reason for them to not exist in some numbers, they can make fewer when they don't have their own software ecosystem to maintain, hell they still probably sold more than PS4 pros.

The practical problem is that the Lite wasn't really feasible on the original 20m tegra chip. The OG switch was already on the razor edge of acceptable battery life and heat for Breath of the Wild. It was only the 16nm reduction of Mariko that made the Lite possible. I bet Switch 2 launch is going to be a similar story, where the standard size is pushed to similar heat/battery limits, and it will take a die shrink to enable a lite down the road.
Probably, but the situation is quite different now.
The Tegra X1 wasn't designed with the Switch use case in mind, it was rather a kind of "retrofitted" design.
Nintendo and Nvida could now very well design two variants of the SoC for two different SKUs (just like Microsoft for Series S and X).
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Probably, but the situation is quite different now.
The Tegra X1 wasn't designed with the Switch use case in mind, it was rather a kind of "retrofitted" design.
Nintendo and Nvida could now very well design two variants of the SoC for two different SKUs (just like Microsoft for Series S and X).
while the Series S helped out MS during the shortage, I still think having two dies was ultimately a mistake. splitting their wafer usage keeps their more desirable product from peaking in its supply
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,264
Houston, TX
I found this video today, detailing a lot about Drake/T239 without speculation:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZChAXbDK8&t=95s

That's actually surprisingly close to the Series S for a handheld.

while the Series S helped out MS during the shortage, I still think having two dies was ultimately a mistake. splitting their wafer usage keeps their more desirable product from peaking in its supply
Ironically, I think the Series S will ultimately help Nintendo more as we approach the release of the Switch's successor.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
while the Series S helped out MS during the shortage, I still think having two dies was ultimately a mistake. splitting their wafer usage keeps their more desirable product from peaking in its supply
Good point

I found this video today, detailing a lot about Drake/T239 without speculation:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZChAXbDK8&t=95s

Very interesting video. Expecially the part concetning the Memory Bus and the FDE.

About the GPU, looking at the Orin specs sheet and based on layman guesswork, I would say a 2.3TF target performance would not be feasible with an 8nm chip given the Switch form factor and power constraints.

Also in terms of core counts from Nintendo's pow it would seem to make more sense to keep the GPU smaller (more like Orin NX) but with slightly higher clocks. That said, I don't know exaclty how power consuption scales with clock speed so I could be absolutely wrong about this.
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,271
Probably, but the situation is quite different now.
The Tegra X1 wasn't designed with the Switch use case in mind, it was rather a kind of "retrofitted" design.
Nintendo and Nvida could now very well design two variants of the SoC for two different SKUs (just like Microsoft for Series S and X).

So what, is the standard 720p and the Lite is even below that? Is it a 1080p standard and 720p lite? Are both screens going to be 720p, where heavy games will render as low as 540p on the standard and drop even further to 360p on the lite?

The series S has substantial room to degrade resolution on 4K screens vs the X. Its a much tighter fit on handheld screens, especially if Nintendo keeps 720p screens. I expect them to already brush against the border of acceptible "HD" handheld framerates/resolution with the standard model just as they did on the original Switch. I can't see an S/X type division working for handheld use without making the "standard" version more of a luxury/pro model which I'm sure Nintendo wants to avoid here, the baseline has to be a hybrid, not a pure handheld.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
If they truly found a way for Switch 2 to have power around PS4/PS4 Pro levels then that would be amazing. Everything would change
I don't consider that a hard task. Ps4 is old and so are its arches. Made on a very old node. Handheld are able to match it in 22W of power now despite many inefficiencies.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,608
PS4 is a poor baseline from the pov of third party support with ports needing to increasingly come from XSS/XSX/PS5. Maybe not at launch but increasing during the Switch 2 life.

Feels like Series S would be within sight depending on CPU performance. Docked with boost clocks + DLSS2 could bridge some of the graphical gap. Handheld likely not though? so at that point multiplatform developers with 'heavy' engines need to consider if they can extend to supporting switch2 handheld profile or if there are some quick wins to do 'good enough' and focus on the docked/XSS level? Eg sub-native, 30fps variable frame rates, the kinds of things they're already doing I guess
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,271
The killer thing for porting from now-current gen is probably going to be the CPU. Nintendo benefited from the really rather poor jaguar cores in the PS4/XB1, hell I don't think the Switch's CPU is far behind at all in single-thread. That's going to be a much taller order for the Zen 2 in the PS5/Series. The Deck barely approaches that ballpark (and still falls short) on account of being a low-powered x86 Zen 2. I'm concerned Nvidia/Nintendo have put most of their eggs in the graphics basket (based on the demands for their first party games) and that the CPU side will be truly lacking for ports.

This is to say nothing of the storage situation. Even the Series S requires its games to be on SSD, with something like Forspoken being the first test on PC with its directstorage. If we're still talking gamecards and micro SD then we are still talking something closer to HDD access speeds.

As-is Switch only got a handful of 3rd party current-gen AAA ports anyway. Half of them involved Nintendo partially funding them even. The situation on Switch 2 is IMO likely to be even worse, not better. But Switch's success was not built on those kind of games anyway, so I wouldn't expect them to pour too much effort in overcoming those hurdles.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
PS4 is a poor baseline from the pov of third party support with ports needing to increasingly come from XSS/XSX/PS5. Maybe not at launch but increasing during the Switch 2 life.

Feels like Series S would be within sight depending on CPU performance. Docked with boost clocks + DLSS2 could bridge some of the graphical gap. Handheld likely not though? so at that point multiplatform developers with 'heavy' engines need to consider if they can extend to supporting switch2 handheld profile or if there are some quick wins to do 'good enough' and focus on the docked/XSS level? Eg sub-native, 30fps variable frame rates, the kinds of things they're already doing I guess
Series S is still well above Drake, depending on how Drake is clocked. besides, you're not doing ports to Drake without turning down graphics anyway. and it's not like we haven't hit 360p in handheld mode as is. even the darling Xenoblade 3 hits that in handheld mode
 

ArcLyte

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,131
My money's on an update of the Lite as the next hardware release. I'd looooooove one with a larger display (doesn't need to be OLED, probably won't if they want to keep the Lite as an affordable option). Seems like the most Nintendo thing for them to do.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
anything that would cause the lite to increase in price would defeat the purpose of the Lite
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
Regarding current gen ports i think the situation will be better and better with new hardware, simply cause of diminishing returns.
If the gap is less obvious, that means the downgrade is also less obvious. It's also a matter of modern engines being super scalable. I guess if you take Doom exemple on Switch, the port was pretty impressive, while needing super low resolution. Now let's imagine a current gen doom. And let's say to make it run properly on Switch 2, you need to lower the LODs to PS4 level and run it at 720p rather than 4k, maybe even lower with DLSS help. Well.. It's going to look DAMN good still. Probably better than the PS4 Doom.

The more we advance in techs the more graphics are acceptable when downgraded.
Now if they just force port it to Switch 2 by moving sliders and it runs like shit of course, as we see lots of games nowadays with terrible performances on multiple platforms... But that's not just a Switch problem.
 

Jackano

Member
Oct 27, 2017
591
I expecting some kind of VR/AR impletation.

While Switch 2 probably has to have a gimmick for Nintendo, I don't expect VR right away. I believe this will come with a second SKU, later.
No idea what's the gimmick could be. I'm not even entierely sure they will do a new one this time. They dropped HD rumble pretty quickly after all, and the Switch/docking itself is the gimmick.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,634
Chicagoland
I think Nintendo might do something more with VR on Switch 2 than Labo, but I'm not holding my breath unless the screen is going to be 1080p and most people think Switch 2's screen will still be 720p. IDK.
 
Jan 13, 2022
1,807
Integrating Wii U/DS functionality where you can do docked/handheld or a combination of the two seems like an easy win that would actually be useful.
 

Truno

Member
Jan 16, 2020
5,048
Nothing major, but Gamefreak (the company mentioned in the 4chan leak that inspired this thread) is currently recruiting for the 'next generation':

mid-tenshoku.com

グラフィックデザイナー:人物モーション(テクニカル) 株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664228|ミドルの転職

株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664228。グラフィックデザイナー:人物モーション(テクニカル)。プロのコンサルタントがサポートする日本最大級のキャリア転職情報サイト。年収800万円以上の高年収、管理職、スペシャリストの求人、非公開求人スカウトも多数。
mid-tenshoku.com

グラフィックデザイナー:エフェクト(テクニカル) 株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664234|ミドルの転職

株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664234。グラフィックデザイナー:エフェクト(テクニカル)。プロのコンサルタントがサポートする日本最大級のキャリア転職情報サイト。年収800万円以上の高年収、管理職、スペシャリストの求人、非公開求人スカウトも多数。
jp.stanby.com

掲載は終了しました|スタンバイ

日本中の求人サイト等から集めた求人をまとめて一括検索できる求人検索エンジン「スタンバイ」は、LINEヤフーとVisional(ビズリーチなどを運営)の合弁会社が運営しています。

Research on new animation expressions for the next generation of human characters in consumer game development.
Research on new expressions for the next generation of general effects (battles, backgrounds, event scenes, etc.) in consumer game development.
You will be in charge of research and development of next generation graphics expression and related technologies at our company, which develops games in the "Pokémon" series.

All credits go to Hartmann over on Fami for their find
 

SiamShade

Member
Jul 11, 2020
527
All I want is a more powerful Switch with a better OS (features-wise, because it's fast and snappy), especially a better e-shop navigation (which is slow as fuck).
All the different control schemes and genius ideas can be made on a software-based level, such as Labo, Mario Kart Live Circuit, Ring Fit, etc.

Just iterate over, not trying to reinvent the wheel.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,009
While Switch 2 probably has to have a gimmick for Nintendo, I don't expect VR right away. I believe this will come with a second SKU, later.
No idea what's the gimmick could be. I'm not even entierely sure they will do a new one this time. They dropped HD rumble pretty quickly after all, and the Switch/docking itself is the gimmick.

They didn't "drop" it, there are still new games coming out that support it. It's just not supported very well.

I don't think the new thing has to be some major "gimmick" but as I've said in the past, Nintendo will absolutely want Switch 2 to have a selling point you can't get with Switch 1. They never want the lone selling point of their hardware to be graphics.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Nothing major, but Gamefreak (the company mentioned in the 4chan leak that inspired this thread) is currently recruiting for the 'next generation':

mid-tenshoku.com

グラフィックデザイナー:人物モーション(テクニカル) 株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664228|ミドルの転職

株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664228。グラフィックデザイナー:人物モーション(テクニカル)。プロのコンサルタントがサポートする日本最大級のキャリア転職情報サイト。年収800万円以上の高年収、管理職、スペシャリストの求人、非公開求人スカウトも多数。
mid-tenshoku.com

グラフィックデザイナー:エフェクト(テクニカル) 株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664234|ミドルの転職

株式会社ゲームフリークの転職・求人情報 19664234。グラフィックデザイナー:エフェクト(テクニカル)。プロのコンサルタントがサポートする日本最大級のキャリア転職情報サイト。年収800万円以上の高年収、管理職、スペシャリストの求人、非公開求人スカウトも多数。
jp.stanby.com

掲載は終了しました|スタンバイ

日本中の求人サイト等から集めた求人をまとめて一括検索できる求人検索エンジン「スタンバイ」は、LINEヤフーとVisional(ビズリーチなどを運営)の合弁会社が運営しています。



All credits go to Hartmann over on Fami for their find
I question if this is new hardware or just a new generation of pokemon. given Game Freak, they're not always compatible
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,264
Houston, TX
I want to believe that, but given they have kept games on last gen platforms even with new gen platforms out, it's hard to say. it could be possible to have it both ways and have an enhanced drake mode
Gen 10 probably won't be until 2026, & we'd have long since moved on by then.
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,271
Even non-sony games are using DualSense haptics well versus xbox rumble these days, and it works on PC (wired), now is precisely the wrong time for Nintendo to abandon actuators now that third parties are finally getting used to them. It doesn't have to be something mind-blowing like feeling icecubes smash together, just the simple ability to adjust the strength of vibration is so much better than traditional one-strength rumble, which has to be used very sparingly to not get annoying.
 

neo2046

Member
May 11, 2018
46
Nvidia Tegra, 5LPP, Samsung foundry
https://twitter.com/OreXda/status/1638028930199465984

Connor is a Korean, His (her?) leaks are usually related to mobile phones and chips. From the record he is quite reliable

No idea and wonder why not 4nm or 3nm but rather 5nm from Samsung, Samsung's 5nm process is not good (efficiency and heat problem) . Chosing Samsung not TSMC may be TSMC just too expensve
 
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