It would be the same for both as AMD's solution whatever it is, if it's in. It's probably not very smart to reserve part of the gpu's silicon in an APU for something like that.
It doesn't seem like this discussion is going anywhere tbh
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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To expand on this a bit. What these optimizations do is remove (or at least dramatically lessen) the penalty of switching away from graphics workloads to do non-graphics processing. Because of this, in periods where the ALUs in the GPU are not being fully utilized, you can now slip in some compute workloads to use that hardware that would otherwise be sitting idle. This is how you get more actual performance from the same number of processing units. There's nothing secret here. It's now a standard feature of AMD hardware and even Nvidia have gotten on board with this in their latest architectures.
No. We only have the reddit leak and it's software based according to it (Direct X). But really software RT is already being done in current games like Claybook, all running on compute GPU. There is already some extensive publications about it.
https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2018/presentations/Aaltonen_Sebastian_GPU_Based_Clay.pdf
My guess is direct X engineers (and Sony's) have probably read all those publications and made their own API using those. You don't reinvent the wheel, you improve it.
This buzz around RT and next gen consoles is just PR war and another marketing checklist. AMD don't have the luxury to dedicate precious silicon to RT when they are so behind nvidia about general gpu efficiency.
AMD Ryzen 3000 Desktop CPUs, Radeon Navi GPUs and X570 Motherboards With PCIe Gen 4.0 Allegedly Launching on 7th July
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpus-x570-motherboards-and-radeon-navi-gpus-7nm-launch-rumor/
cc: anexanhume Colbert
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpus-x570-motherboards-and-radeon-navi-gpus-7nm-launch-rumor/
cc: anexanhume Colbert
Both of them ..also im very prone to think they will have an hardware solution for RT and betting again with high bandwidth seen the results they getting from the x
I'm stupid and thought of GDC instead of CES. Thought it was already over. It would be interesting to see how a current Unreal Engine Demo compares to the elemental or Samaritan Tech demo. You get the idea. Maybe they are ready to show stuff behind closed doors and the public gets the impressions. Next to the Cyberpunk demo it woud be one of the few things created with next-gen specs in mind.
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What does he mean by "computer cores"? GPU ALU or CPU cores? Or both?
This is not the first report I've seen suggesting TSMC has fabrication issues. I'm guessing it's big die yield rather than capacity, since they're supposedly running under capacity. Hard to tell since low volume Radeon VII has been their only 7nm effort thus far.
There's no reason to feel this wouldn't be a 'successful' thought because it's all rational. It's a reasonable theory as to why Microsoft may take a particular approach to the next generation.
I completely agree that Microsoft's gaming division, now with the full support of the board room, has the capability within it's own parameters, experience and partners to design and develop a very powerful console. There's no room for debate on that one. Microsoft have the resources to match anyone and recent acquisitions along with the bravado show the company is dead-serious about tackling the next-generation, both hardware and software. It's a show of power; a warning to Sony that they could make a proposal that will satiate the most ardent Sony supporter.
In isolation, from that perspective, Sony would probably not have an answer if money, time and budget is of no consequence to Microsoft. But it is, albeit relatively higher than Sony's.
Investing isn't just about how much you invest. It's also about how you invest. Although on paper you are right, the other big two wouldn't be able to complete financially, the trick would be to gain insight in design and technology to get an edge. This is something Cerny successfully did with PlayStation 4; being more powerful and cheaper than Microsoft's offering. History could repeat itself, especially since it's been rumoured that Sony has had a hand in the design process of new chips.
The other concession is if all the rumours are absolutely true I would have thought investing in known current architecture is self-limiting. For example, as you rightly noted, Sony's costs for PlayStation 3's CELL architecture would be over-inflated, even though it was a design developed with IBM and Toshiba, because it hadn't been done before. At this point I'd ask 'How much money can be thrown at a solution to push the limitations of current feasible technology?'. There's only so far Microsoft can go unless they play the waiting game and release a year or so after the PlayStation 5 when other technologies have been tested and certified.
Is the delay worth the wait?
I'm sure Sony has the resorces and capability to invest in pushing current technology as much as Microsoft. In that climate Sony are more than capable to the point where design and execution pays dividends i.e. PlayStation 4. The next-generation, an iterative step of the current generation, should make it even easier for Sony to flex design prowess versus cost. So, at this point, are they actually better suited for the task?
The PlayStation 3 was a confusing product. It cost Sony too much money but would Sony be who they are today without that mis-step? Think about it like this - Sony are just as clever at engineering a console but with current technological sensitivities in mind and PlayStation 3 solidified their 1st party offering. That mis-step has strengthened the whole brand.
To rap up: the talk of Microsoft running away in the power game seems a little daft right now. Execution could be just as important and the limiting factor of iterative technologies for the next generation could effectively stifle Microsoft's vast wealth. Or wait it out.
MI50 and MI60 are also TSMC's 7nm. Not exactly high volume either, so yeah. But if Radeon VII's sample variance is anything to go by, yikes.
This is probably not the place to put it, but can't think of another thread. Does anyone else remember that Avatar (movie, not anime) destinytype game that ubisoft is making? I feel like that has to be day one next gen as a "surprise". It's been so long
Honestly thinking about next gen game releases, i predict that at least 65% of games shown at E3 2019 will be on next gen.
Wasn't that game announced to be next-gen? Now that I think about it, we know about a fair amount of next-gen games.
Interesting, looked it up and Ubisoft said it's not out before fy2021 and that the division studio and someone else is working on it. This does not seem to be a cheap cash grab license. But to be honest, considering what they did with star trek, they atleast put effort unlike EA and Activision do with licenses
Edit: should a communal effort be put towards making a list of next gen games? Could be part of OP
Ryzen 3000 launching on 7 July? I'd buy that, it lines up with the already-announced summer timeframe and I can see them wanting to do a "The 7nm era begins on 7.7" stunt.
Navi launching at the same time? Not a chance. They haven't "revealed" Navi yet, like they have the Ryzen 3000. More importantly, I don't think they'd have surprised everyone by making Radeon VII if Navi was coming to obviate it in just five months.
Navi is late 2019.
AMD's only 7nm release, sure, but far from TSMC's first 7nm production. Apple's A12X is a high-volume SoC combining CPU and GPU. It's relatively small at 120 mm2 so yield issues for larger dies could well be a different story, but it came out shortly after the 7nm A12 last fall without apparent supply issues.
A12X is only about 33% bigger than A12, and they're both on the 6T Mobile/SoC variant of 7nm. A12 is likely an order of magnitude higher volume due to it being in both 2018 iPhone releases and A12X only being in the new iPad Pro. Not really comparable to a 200mm^2 or bigger GPU on 7nm HPC.
Where does that put Sony skipping E3? Could MS get the lions share of third party announcements? Or perhaps Sony will have some of them lined up for its own event and they won't show at E3?
I mean odds are solid this is ms last e3, no reasson to pay the stupid high costs. they take the free pr this year, than pull out next.
Why is this becoming such a popular belief that first parties will not bother with E3 in future?
Sony has pretty much all but confirmed that their absence at E3 this year is a one off. Why would anyone think MS will decide not to show up after this year?
Is there some politics with E3 or something that I missed?
costs booth space for the size ms/sony buy are over 10 mil, and the press confrences arent worth it ether, nintendo proved that with a direct.
$10m for booth space will be a damn sight cheaper than putting on your own dedicated event; which is pretty much the alternative you're proposing.
When it comes to the marketing budgets of companies the size of MS and Sony, $10m is chicken change.
Costs are so far down the list of priorities over wheter either would permanently give up a presence at E3. If they do, and I don't believe they will, it'll be for other reasons.
I don't think people should expect E3 to keep traditional conferences. Sony/Nintendo/EA are out it's a matter of time until MS and Ubisoft/Bethesda also leave it behind.
E3 is going to change a lot come the next few years maybe featuring a more panel like approach as Comic Con.
Have you read the source article? It only talks about Ryzen 3000 and X570 for July while doubting that Navi will make it that time due to TSMC capacity issues which is inline what we already heard.
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I'm not sure Sony will come back to E3, Layden said that E3 hasn't evolved with the times
I worked at Sony retail outlet during PS4 launch around LA in Cali, I can assure you that Sony wasn't making a profit out of selling a PS4. The hardware itself wasn't profitable. It was profitable only when the consumer picked up the system with at least one or two games along with PS plus subscription.
Nintendo still has booth space at E3 and its gigantic. E3 isn't just an audience in an auditorium. The cost of booth space is likely worth it for them, as E3 is still a thing after 25 years.
And about those conferences, I like them. If I want to just watch trailers I can do that on Youtube. But sometimes once or twice a year I like to see the people behind the games and industry people talk about their games and industry things. I wanna continue seeing Kojima, Miyazaki or Yu Suzuki on stage and the audience reactions.
Some 3rd parties will do a Watch Dog 2012 trailer without mentioning platforms but I don't expect a next gen blow out this E3. It has been quiet around Holiday 2019 releases and I expect most to focus on that. But it depends if a console launches 1H 2020.
EA still does press conferences, just not where E3 is held. E3 already changed back in 2007 or so and it didn't work. Sony is only out this E3 and last PSX because they feel they don't have enough to show, they'll be back next time. They do seem to be experimenting with different formats, and they don't get better for it, last 2 years or so were awful.
Yah but they always go to e3, arent they going this year?
EA is out?
TBH, it wouldn't surprise me anyway because EA's conferences have been so spectacularly bad over the last few E3s that I can't blame them from choosing not expose themselves like that.
Sony doesn't have much new to announce in 2019, and that's not suprising since they still have a bunch of already announced unreleased games and PS5 is around the corner, so anything new will get announced after their PS5 reveal.
Not that I disbelieve you but source?
Also, saying "E3 hasn't evolved with the times" doesn't mean Sony has abandoned E3 for good and won't ever have a presence there in future.
Shawn said to various outlets that E3 might morph into a panel like event a la Comic Con in the future.
They've been using their own building just across from the E3 convention, don't know if they charge themselves for the privilege.
Though they still have booths at E3
RVII, MI50 and MI60 are all the very same Vega 20 chip.
No, it doesn't mean that, but I didn't say that either.
But it certainly confronts the idea that Sony "has all but confirmed it's a one off".
I'd say it will depend on how E3 evolves , and how successful is whatever Sony does in 2019 instead
I just read this-pretty good article about Sony and E3:
Was PlayStation's E3 criticism justified?
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-18-was-playstations-e3-criticism-justified-l-opinion
"PlayStation no-longer has the capacity to do the things at E3 that it was doing just a few years ago -- not every year"
Was PlayStation's E3 criticism justified?
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-18-was-playstations-e3-criticism-justified-l-opinion
"PlayStation no-longer has the capacity to do the things at E3 that it was doing just a few years ago -- not every year"
Navi isn't high-end. Arcturus is high-end it's brand new architecture. Navi is a smaller Polaris node. It will use GDDR6.
Well, we're dealing in rumours here.
IIRC, the rumours generally put the first Navi PC parts as low and mid range parts (Navi 10, Navi 14 ... ). But there's also rumours of a high-end Navi later next year (Navi 20).
Rumours are also mixed about what microarchitecture Navi is using.
It's been known for a while since some leaks a while back. It's not a brand new architecture. Leaks put it at av1080, 2070.
It would make no sense to sell a Radeon 7 then turn around 5 months later and release another high end product. Why would they have bothered if Navi was going to be high end with Radeon 7?
All fingers people point to Navi being mid-range.
Also the rumors seem to be true about respinning for Navi hence the rumors delays and very little mention during CES. If they were on track we would not have gotten a Radeon 7 so quickly.
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Navi will be Polaris in 7nm. That's it.
Sad thing is it won't be cheap too.
I'm not referring just to Navi. Though rumours until now implied an high end version of Navi in their plans too.
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But that alternative is better.
I am not of the impression that sony has permanently pulled out of E3 forever, but I can clearly see why it makes sense that they do. Simple truth of it is that this is not 2006. We are in a world today where an E3 isn't really necessary. We can't just pretend that YouTube, Twitch or any other live streaming platform doesn't exist.
So what you need to ask yourself (if you were them) is; would you rather sink 10s of millions (cause its not just both space but all the TVs and other equipment and tons of stewards you will pay for too) into an event that has you vying and competing for the attention of everyone in a massive shared space along with everyone else or spend that money in your own exclusive curated event, still have your fans present and share information in a controlled way where you get all the media focus. The whole point of E3 is supposed to be about media focus right? As it stands there are now better ways to accomplish the same thing.
As long as sony has PSX they are fine. And the benefit f PSX is that it allows them have nothing but a small both in other events where fans can try out a few demos. Though even that isn't necessary cause you can just download said demo onto your console. But further more it allows sony be able to pick a different location for PSX every year if they so choose broadening its appeal.
The narratives would be different if Sony was doing E3.
While Sony doing there own event will be not much worse then doing E3, it won't be any better.
Despite having things like youtube streaming and social media, the 26yrs of E3 history still counts for something.
People are only acting like E3 don't mean much no more only because Sony is not doing it. Its really quite pathetic.
While Sony doing there own event will be not much worse then doing E3, it won't be any better.
Despite having things like youtube streaming and social media, the 26yrs of E3 history still counts for something.
People are only acting like E3 don't mean much no more only because Sony is not doing it. Its really quite pathetic.
It's going to be using GDDR6, and I think you are right, I don't see it being in the $200+ range. It will be $350-450. ANd I think the talk of a high end will be one with a higher memory capacity, with high over clocks.
Ubisoft Blue Byte in Düsseldorf is working on it, too. They contacted me multiple times about possible job openings there. I guess they are currently in full development on it.
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