But to throw out these statements that kids who have these issues simply suffer from shitty parenting is OK? What a joke
Ninja has some harsh words about Fortnite ‘rehab’ and parental responsibility
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Addiction is a far more complicated issue than its being made out to be here. Yeah, some of those kids might just need to have their parents disconnect them for a bit. But a true addiction has underlying root causes that need to be addressed.
Imagine saying that all you need to do to cure an alcoholic is cut off their supply of booze.
Imagine saying that all you need to do to cure an alcoholic is cut off their supply of booze.
I think that they are trying to explain to you that your knowledge is limited, so you may know "fantastic parents with great kids" and still not know everything that is going on in the home.
But this is going to the nth degree in saying that all these kids actually have an "addiction" problem similar to that of an alcoholic.
It just isn't true. While sure, many kids might actually have a mental illness that leads to an addiction problem, most of the reports of parents saying their kids are "addicted" are just using that term loosely - their kids just play too many video games and that's it.
The best way is to not give a people a bottle of liquor every time they're bored or angry in the first place
Exactly. A kid can be a good kid, and have good parents, and still become an addict. There are so many factors to addiction that cannot simply be waved away by "parents didn't take the Playstation away enough".
Does anyone have a good resource from someone learned in psychology as well as familiar with video games that discuss game addiction? I'm curious to learn about the psychology of it for the benefit of my kids. I agree a lot of it is on the parents but it is obviously a more nuanced conversation than that. I'm especially interested in hearing an expert discuss what makes certain games worse. For example, I do seem to notice my son seems more upset when he has to stop playing Fortnite vs other games.
I'm not asking for advice, as we're involved and fine. But are there insightful videos out there like a Ted talk or something?
I'm not asking for advice, as we're involved and fine. But are there insightful videos out there like a Ted talk or something?
OP
OP
Please dial back the hostility guys, I don't really want this thread to be locked because of a parents vs non-parents war.
I think there is a real discussion to be made over monitoring children and video games but too many people are throwing around the term 'bad parenting' here.
I think there is a real discussion to be made over monitoring children and video games but too many people are throwing around the term 'bad parenting' here.
Nah. I'm sure many of them don't have true addiction issues. Those kids would benefit from a little bit more parental authority being exerted.
I'm talking about the kids where parents are considering and sending their kids to rehab. For kids and adults like, video games can be an escape from dealing with a lot of serious issues.
Society has changed radically in the last 20-25 years, much more than it has before, in many ways due to the exponential growth of technology. The experience of a parent and child in 1980 is vastly more similar to a parent and child in 1960 than it is for a parent and child in 1998 compared to 2018.
The experiences we had with our parents when we were kids are not fully cross applicable to the experiences of parents today with children today. It's not a matter of "I know more than you" in a holier than thou inflection, rather it's a tangibly different experience that non-parents today aren't able to honestly relate to.
It is truly exhausting to engage with your children the entire time they are awake. It is a constant game of trying to match their energy level and invent new ways to play with them. It definitely worth it though.
Yeah, those cases definitely require more attention and more than a slap on the wrist for bad parenting - but they'd also be problems regardless of gaming.
I'm not sure Ninja was responding to those cases specifically. If he was, yeah he's an asshole, but I think he was mainly reacting to the umbrella in general.
Yes, that's why I said in my post that all addictions are awful. But to me it sounds like they are comparing Fortnite to heroin as a scare tactic while America goes through an opioid crisis. There are so many other addictions that could be used, like cell phone addiction, or social media addiction, or television addiction. But heroin?
I lost a very close friend to heroin, so to hear shit like that pisses me off. I know to others the comparison is reasonable, but it really isn't. Seeing my buddy deteriorate over the few months leading up to his overdose was heartbreaking. It's way easier to get a kid to stop playing Fortnite than to get someone clean from heroin.
I really don't think you understand the financial, psychological, and social burdens of addiction and rehab. Otherwise you wouldn't be making this sort of statement.
Super disagree with that, sorry. I think it´s the root of the problem ITT.
"I once was a kid therefor I shall give parenting advice"
How do you explain the parents who have chimed in on this thread who've bucked this trend though? There are plenty of people who have said they're able to manage this sort of stuff without many issues, just by putting more effort into being active as a parent.
Oh, I definitely see that with family members who have kids. They're constantly exhausted, but they wouldn't have it any other way - they love it, they love their kids, they want nothing more than to be with them - it's exactly what makes me want to have kids, to have that connection. Seeing other parents stick a tablet in front of a crying 8 year old does the exact opposite for me.
While I generally agree with you, there are a few lines here that can't see eye-to-eye with you on. It looks like (please correct me if I'm wrong) that there's a correlation being drawn between the boundaries you've set with screens/games and your child's behavior. "He behaves in public...." is non-sequitur to the previous sentences.
I also think that blame is something that's shared between the game and the parents. F2P games are designed to be addictive at worst, and to encourage spending at best. It's the business model, and it's valid, but it's bad. The industry could and should do better with warnings, labels, parent permissions (which places responsibility on the parents too), and marketing.
I don't think Ninja is necessarily wrong, but he's not 100% correct either. He has a stake in this, so it's natural to assume he'll say something in defense of his livelihood (whether it's right or wrong or correct or false or true on inaccurate or whatever adjective we want to use). Ultimately the responsibility rests on the parent, so I'm with you there, but let's not take accountability away from the source, either.
Psychological/behavioral addictions are different from those with a physiological component like drugs or alcohol. Of course they are not the same but attempting to go down this path of what's a true addiction and what isn't, is useless. People get addicted to a lot of things that aren't drugs and symptoms and treatments manifest differently.
Feel free not to listen to them. I'm a parent too. Doesn't mean I get to shut down the opinions of non-parents who disagree with me.
What? Maybe you misunderstood my post. I was saying that in actual cases where mental illness leads to addiction (to video games), it's definitely a real issue - but that a lot of these reports of parents saying "my kid's addicted" are using that term loosely. It's like people saying "oh I'm so OCD about that".
There's also a ton of parents who are like Ned Flander's parents "we've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas!"
And I say this as both a parent and a teacher. There's a ton of mental illness issues with kids that do need intervention by professionals. There's also a lot of kids that need parents to set clear boundaries (that clearly don't exist in a lot of kids that cause me grief in my job) to help curb these issues before they become so serious.
I am 43 years old. I have tons of nephews and nieces and most all of my friends have kids. I just could not have kids because of biological reasons.
You act is if being a parent directly is the only parameter for knowing what it means to raise a decent human being and possibly how to do so. It is not.
In fact I would argue that for people in my specific position, being an observer of multiple parenting styles, I am able to see what is effective and what is not. I have the ability to not get attached to the fact I am a parent, be objective, and just see what parenting styles seem to work and those that do not.
And just a small example. We watch my nephew often. His parents always say how they are shocked how well behaved he is once he comes back from our place. I want to tell them there is no mystery about it, we just do not let him walk all over us and he gets his shit together real quick. However I keep my mouth shut to keep the family peace. But I know what their kid needs and have implemented it myself when we are responsible for his well being. I am not even mean about it or need much displicine at all. I actually always try speaking to him as real and as straight as possible while keeping in mind he is a kid. And guess what? Uncle Larry is his favorite uncle by far. It is a running joke with the family. However since I am not a parent how could I possibly know what is good for him or any other kid for that matter is your take?
Finally what is the saying? It takes a village? So according to you, that village can only be other parents to raise the kid properly? That I personally believe is absolute nonsense, but hey, we are all entitled to our opinions.
How old is you son if you don't mind me asking? Because it only gets harder to prevent them from playing. Dealing with a 5-8 or 9-10 year old is nothing to even just a 11 year old, when their friends start wanting to play online with them.
Now I'm by no mean a good parent, I was pretty much a kid (15) when I took a parental role for my youngest brother (was 3 at the time) after his dad died, I could've definitely done better, but I don't think I could've stopped him getting hooked on gaming and now I have the even harder tasked of getting a 13-14 year old to do something else.
You´re throwing two things together here.
Their children are not addicted to FortNite. That´s all.
An alcoholic is still an alcoholic if you take the bottle out of his hand.
Limiting game time is not a fix for actual addiction and I don´t think only unsupervised long gaming sessions can lead to addictions.
Some people take cocaine once and go "thanks, I´m good"
Some take it and go "holy shit! - that´s all I´m doing from now on".
But I do think that Ninja himself is a factor because he largely contributes to the FortNite culture, so I really wish he would shut the fuck up.
This entire thread is just full of people making a mockery of what addiction really is. Blaming the parents or telling parents to just take control in the face of an addiction is ridiculous and honestly just insulting to anyone who has ever suffered from one.
You are wrong. Addiction can happen right under your nose even with rules and guidelines in place and with supervision. You don't understand the psychology of addiction.
It's a matter of education and privilege. Like I stated before I'd be able to block Fortnite on a level my kid would never be able to overcome if I needed to. I'd be able to fully utilize parental controls. I have the knowledge of that due to being a tech and game enthusiast.
All Millennials and Zers know how to use tech because it's been made incredibly simple to use. Being able to do more complicated actions with that tech requires a level of aptitude that isn't common. It doesn't help that it is in the best interests of the game industry to get kids addicted and spending money and making it more obtuse than it needs to be to use parental controls. Parents don't know and aren't educated about them on purpose.
On the other end low income, single parent, etc families may be too busy to be able to keep effective track of out of sight activities such as Fortnite. Both parents working around the clock, a single parent being overwhelmed. It's not a level playing field where every parent has the same level of access and ability to control this. Like I've said, it's not as simple as taking the batteries out of their kid's GameBoy.
That's not even touching on legitimate matters of addiction, which when games are explicity designed to be addictive, is more common and insidious than you might expect from our experience growing up with games. It's one reason why I crusade against MTX so much.
Aye WOW was a WHOLE NEW LEVEL and there's most likely never again a game that's never gonna happen.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to actual addiction here, because I really think the majority of these cases don't involve actual addiction - they're just kids who play too many video games and "addiction" is being used way too loosely.
But yes, in cases of actual mental health issues, I agree.
Because if a school shooting happens at my kids school I want them to be able to text me that they are safe
Making categorical conclusions about whether or not these kids are addicted or not, without even knowing the behavior of those admitted to these rehab camps, sounds very smart and rational
Fair enough, I can totally appreciate this.
Fair enough. I live in a place where this literally never happens, so I suppose it's not a reality I can relate to - but I can understand this.
That being said, a smart phone isn't necessary in these situations.
Yup, this is so important to realize. There are addictions today that didn't exist in the 80's, at least not in the same form, because the source of the addiction did not exist yet or was not readily available to the degree it is today. Some examples would be gaming addictions, internet gambling addictions, internet pornography addictions, general internet/social media addictions, etc.
I agree that it is an extreme comparison, but it in no way belittles the harm of heroin addiction. You have to realize that the age of the addict is important in regards to the severity of the addiction and the damage it causes.
Not trying to say Fortnite addiction isn't a true addiction, or any other addiction. I keep saying it in every post that all addictions are awful, and I know it can affect people's life. Spending 12 hours a day playing Fortnite will of course get in the way of your life. I was addicted to Civilization IV my freshman year of college, and it caused me to fail multiple classes because I played it instead of doing homework. All I'm trying to say is I don't think it's fair to compare Fortnite addiction to being addicted to heroin.
From an emotional standpoint it really is.
All the empathy in the world is not enough to actually know how a parent feels about their own child.
And this is really all it comes down to.
it´s like telling a depressed person to cheer up.
Feels like a lot of this can be summed up in the phrase Terrible Parents. You're terrible for not monitoring your children and allowing them to become addicted to this game. You are also terrible for then turning around and saying..."well now I've got this problem what do you expect me to do? It's not easy you know!"
In conclusion... you are terrible.
In conclusion... you are terrible.
There's a huge difference between babysitting and being wholly responsible for the 24/7 care and nurturing of a child.
Mods: Parents need to stop shutting down opinions!
Thread: Parents who have kids with issues are terrible people!
When the gulags come I hope there's a special one for non-parents who try to tell parents what to do
Except we are talking about parents who have taken the monumental step of actually seeking professional help for their children and sending them to a rehab center. That's not a financial, psychological, and social burden a parent takes on unless their child has a serious problem. So I have no idea why you are suggesting they are overreacting.
I'm pretty sure the addicts/recovering addicts here are used to these kind of takes. I know I am. The general public's understanding of addiction is severely lacking, and this thread is evidence of that.
Yes, this is exactly what situation I was in as a kid.
Also, unless you're actually a parent, you don't know what it's like to be 'always on' and what that actually means for your ability to balance raising a child. I don't really give a fuck if you're 'good with kids' or help take care of your niece super good. If you have the freedom to give that child back to another person when you're tapped out and go on about your life, you're absolutely not speaking from experience, and certainly not from authority