I'm not sure video games are a great angle for trying to change the minds of a bunch of old conservatives
The hatred of China here is ridiculous. A tariff war is bad for both Chinese and American consumers. I don't know how the idiots here support this. Everyone says I hate the Chinese government, but you hate the Chinese. This kind of racial discrimination is really ridiculous in era. Your racial equality is only for blacks, not for other people of color.
The hatred of China here is ridiculous. A tariff war is bad for both Chinese and American consumers. I don't know how the idiots here support this. Everyone says I hate the Chinese government, but you hate the Chinese. This kind of racial discrimination is really ridiculous in era. Your racial equality is only for blacks, not for other people of color.
I can't wait either, the subterfuge people come up to defend this administration is almost an art form at this point.I'm personally looking forward towards the beautiful and well-thought takes the alt-right gamers are gonna come up with to defend their president on this one.
Production has gone aheadI'm guessing a LOT of behind the scenes activity is happening right now in evaluating prices. The announcement of prices of new consoles is probably going to wait for a while.
Nintendo is probably waiting until the last possible second to announce the Switch Mini until they get a clearer picture of what the situation will be like for the next 6 months.
+1You're also forgetting as "concerned" US citizens we can at least fight against the injustices here or even attempt to garner support for the people who have been wronged. (Not saying it always works, it's just nice that we can disagree with the government, take action and attempt to right wrongs....)
Yeah, they are probably waiting on seeing how many units these new factories can churn out and the cost per unit in order to decide on a final price. Pretty sure they will be spending a heftier budget on QC testing due to units coming from multiple sources.
Nah, I'm with the US on this.
Fuck the Chinese government.
China's actions in Xianjing and Tibet are horrific, and have caused me to abandon all support for them.
When Trump screws everything with his sanctions and he's not even aware.
Sounds like an EDF reboot featuring Trump as the incoming threat...So all the nations joined forces to fight the aliens. Makes sense.
The Gamengers.Sounds like an EDF reboot featuring Trump as the incoming threat...
To save Economies from yet another Trump attack
From shitty thoughtless sanctions that have once again come back
We'll combine all our forces, we won't cut them any slack
The TDF deploys!
Tariffs are the.stick. the intended effect is for these companies to move manufacturing out of China permanentlyAmerican manufacturers and consumers pay import tariffs, not China.
You might not know if this if everything you learned about Dumbass Donald's unnecessary trade war came from Dumbass Donald himself.
Broad tariffs are shit policy in all scenarios. Protectionist nonsense.
Free trade is the way to go. Anything else is garbage.
i agree Trump is a huge dick and basically inhuman, but this is more an example of greedy companies being upset that they lost their slave labor/child labor. i don't mean to use 'slave' in such a shitty and non-chalant way, but after reading about foxconn work conditions, it is pretty disturbing (i mean look at the suicide rates!). but yeah, i have no empathy for Sony Nintendo Microsoft. yeah the tariffs are bad but seriously the companies deserve these expenses for how they keep supporting this child labor and terrible work conditions. i am glad they are losing their 'golden goose'.
edit: also apple you eat shit too i hope.
They already have been.2 things can be true at once, Trump is an idiot & Nintendo, Sony & Microsoft want to make more money.
The big three could just move to Taiwan like others have & make a tiny bit less profit, or suck it up & eat the tariff, Microsoft's market cap is a trillion dollars for fuck sake.
Tariffs will not impact manufacturers in a material way. They will largely impact consumers who will pay additional costs. The point of the tariffs is not to curb labor practices (or, as the letter says, to encourage better IP law enforcement, also a distraction). They specifically stem from Trump's inability to understand comparative advantage.
Suppose that China becomes impossible to manufacture in thanks to a magic policy. Any manufacturing shifted out of China will go to other south-East Asian countries with cheaper costs of labor and fewer regulations. This is already happening even in the absence of anti-Chinese tariffs. Even manufacturing in China often involves component outsourcing to, for instance, North Korea (where I assure you labor practices are far worse and external pressure to stop abuses far less).
There are many organizations and many people who dedicate their lives to improving labor conditions in China, and none of them think pulling the rug out in a spectacular fashion will solve anything. The main driver of increased wages, safer work conditions, and crackdowns on underage labor in China has been China's prosperity and pressure from external organizations to make incremental reforms. Even at periods where widespread abuse, manufacturing electronics was often safer and better compensated than alternatives (garment work, electronics recycling, begging) in the same areas: this is, after all, why people take these sweatshop jobs to begin with. Consider that if electronics manufacturing is not available in these areas, the people will not be liberated. They will be reduced to working more dangerous jobs for less wages. Many of the higher risk, lower wage jobs primarily serve China's internal trade needs and so cannot be effectively disrupted with tariffs or international pressure. A world where China is poor and isolated hurts average Chinese citizens more than it helps them.
Let's evaluate how things have changed in, for instance, the smartphone era. Ten years ago, many companies had no provisions to examine or control underage labor, overtime abuse, or injuries on the job. Today, most manufacturers in China have educational opportunities for workers, do not allow employees under age 14, cap hours worked to 60, etc. Wages have doubled in many of the electronics manufacturers during this period. Does this reach a standard we would consider fair, free, and empowering for workers? No, absolutely not. We don't want 15 year olds working. We don't want people working 50 hours a week. But significant progress has been made. Instances of 11 year olds working have dropped enormously in the last decade. As has the workers working 100 hours a week.. Today most of the issues in the labor supply chain deal with subcontracting agreements and enforcing the standards of primary manufacturers throughout the manufacturing chain. So, in other words, Foxconn is no longer the main problem, and now we're focusing on making sure all the companies Foxconn subcontracts with aren't either. These improvements have stemmed both from Chinese economic growth and the maturing Chinese middle class, and also due to NGOs and western companies forcing Foxconn and other manufacturers to meet higher standards.
While the Foxconn suicides are extremely disturbing, there is limited or no evidence that suicide rates in electronics manufacturing are higher than in any other industry. Foxconn has almost a million employees. During the period that the Foxconn suicides were widely reported, they had 15 suicides in a year. No one would look at, for instance, Austin Texas and conclude that 15 adult aged suicides in a year means something has gone gravely wrong with Foxconn. Moreover, and this should not be surprising given what I've just told you, the suicide rate at Foxconn was substantially lower than similar aged individuals elsewhere in China (largely because despite all of the very real problems at Foxconn at the time, other alternatives were worse). The frame shouldn't be "There were suicides at Foxconn. Fuck all this." It should be "What can we do to improve the life of people working in these conditions?"
I think if you feel this passionately about labor conditions in China, you should look into organizations that aim to help average people in China and see what they say and where they see things going in the next 10-20 years. I should say that none of this speaks to other and unrelated social issues in China, like for instance the Uyghur concentration camps, ongoing state censorship, the One China meddling in Hong Kong, etc. There are many reasons why you might personally choose to boycott buying goods from foreign areas: not because you believe your boycott is helping Chinese workers, but because you do not want any moral complicity in those other things. That's fine, I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to think about hard problems. But don't pretend such an attitude makes the lives of Chinese workers better.
What kind of response is this bullshit. Do you know how many life's and jobs this industry effects? A 25% tariff on consoles could thousands of job losses and a shrinking of the industry. It's not something to just shrug off.
Where is this from?
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC on Wednesday the U.S. and China were close to a trade deal, and he's optimistic that progress can be made during weekend talks between President Donald Trump and China's Xi Jinping.
"We were about 90% of the way there [with a deal] and I think there's a path to complete this," he told CNBC's Hadley Gamble in Manama, Bahrain.
He said he's confident Trump and the Chinese president can make progress in stalled trade talks at the Group of 20 meeting. "The message we want to hear is that they want to come back to the table and continue because I think there is a good outcome for their economy and the U.S. economy to get balanced trade and to continue to build on this relationship."
He did not provide any detail on what the final 10% of an agreement might entail, or what the sticking points are to completing a deal.
The hatred of China here is ridiculous. A tariff war is bad for both Chinese and American consumers. I don't know how the idiots here support this. Everyone says I hate the Chinese government, but you hate the Chinese. This kind of racial discrimination is really ridiculous in era. Your racial equality is only for blacks, not for other people of color.
hi chinese governmentThe hatred of China here is ridiculous. A tariff war is bad for both Chinese and American consumers. I don't know how the idiots here support this. Everyone says I hate the Chinese government, but you hate the Chinese. This kind of racial discrimination is really ridiculous in era. Your racial equality is only for blacks, not for other people of color.
People can be upset with the Chinese government all they want (And the American government for that matter too), but let's not pretend like these trade tariffs are being put in place because the US is taking the moral high ground with China.
This is about exerting dominance on the international scene between two super powers, and it's the average person who is going to bear the brunt of the damage.
Well Trump isn't really fixing that issue, he's only blocking China's expansion in hope to snatch a better deal while blocking their big companies, but manufacturing products in China had already become more expensive than what it used to be, so companies are already moving their productions to the "new China" which are now Vietnam and India.
Essentially you're only changing the nationality of your slaves.
Also while i agree that this is bad, we need to realize that the majority of the products you see today are made in those countries with those working conditions, with that much influence from the government on local companies, etc. It's time to change this, but we need some effort and time to adapt.
Please post examples of racial discrimination in this thread or gtfo. No one in era hates the Chinese that's ridiculous.The hatred of China here is ridiculous. A tariff war is bad for both Chinese and American consumers. I don't know how the idiots here support this. Everyone says I hate the Chinese government, but you hate the Chinese. This kind of racial discrimination is really ridiculous in era. Your racial equality is only for blacks, not for other people of color.
if products risk to become more expensive due to taxes, you just have to lower costs somewhere else. i am sure neither the corporations nor china would like to lose their good and established working relationships, so the best solution would be some optimisations on the cost of labour, as we, the customer rightfully insist on keeping low price and high quality.i agree Trump is a huge dick and basically inhuman, but this is more an example of greedy companies being upset that they lost their slave labor/child labor. i don't mean to use 'slave' in such a shitty and non-chalant way, but after reading about foxconn work conditions, it is pretty disturbing (i mean look at the suicide rates!). but yeah, i have no empathy for Sony Nintendo Microsoft. yeah the tariffs are bad but seriously the companies deserve these expenses for how they keep supporting this child labor and terrible work conditions. i am glad they are losing their 'golden goose'.
edit: also apple you eat shit too i hope.
western media, please. chinese media has a far more balanced and unbiased viewpoint on these issues.Appears to be lots of hate for China / Xi Jinping. What westerners know about China is mainly from the media themselves, which try really hard to paint a bad picture of China whenever they can. It might be true is not doing a lot of things right but the media just makes it far worse than it actually is.
Tariffs are the.stick. the intended effect is for these companies to move manufacturing out of China permanently
They are laughing at us! Everybody says so! Chiiiina needs to stop whatever its doing to usss. I really like Xi and I looked him in the eye and said: not anymore. No, not anymore and they wont be laughing anymore!
Im not gonna defend the tariffs, but ofcourse they would say that whether its true or not.But if you actually read the letter you would know that they themselves said moving production out of china would cost more than just taking the tarrifs.
If you can find some sources to backup your comments, it would be greatly appriciated. Its extremely annoying to read this long and otherwise well thought comment without being able to verify a single thing on it. It would also give your points much more credence. Cheers!Tariffs will not impact manufacturers in a material way. They will largely impact consumers who will pay additional costs. The point of the tariffs is not to curb labor practices (or, as the letter says, to encourage better IP law enforcement, also a distraction). They specifically stem from Trump's inability to understand comparative advantage.
Suppose that China becomes impossible to manufacture in thanks to a magic policy. Any manufacturing shifted out of China will go to other south-East Asian countries with cheaper costs of labor and fewer regulations. This is already happening even in the absence of anti-Chinese tariffs. Even manufacturing in China often involves component outsourcing to, for instance, North Korea (where I assure you labor practices are far worse and external pressure to stop abuses far less).
There are many organizations and many people who dedicate their lives to improving labor conditions in China, and none of them think pulling the rug out in a spectacular fashion will solve anything. The main driver of increased wages, safer work conditions, and crackdowns on underage labor in China has been China's prosperity and pressure from external organizations to make incremental reforms. Even at periods where widespread abuse, manufacturing electronics was often safer and better compensated than alternatives (garment work, electronics recycling, begging) in the same areas: this is, after all, why people take these sweatshop jobs to begin with. Consider that if electronics manufacturing is not available in these areas, the people will not be liberated. They will be reduced to working more dangerous jobs for less wages. Many of the higher risk, lower wage jobs primarily serve China's internal trade needs and so cannot be effectively disrupted with tariffs or international pressure. A world where China is poor and isolated hurts average Chinese citizens more than it helps them.
Let's evaluate how things have changed in, for instance, the smartphone era. Ten years ago, many companies had no provisions to examine or control underage labor, overtime abuse, or injuries on the job. Today, most manufacturers in China have educational opportunities for workers, do not allow employees under age 14, cap hours worked to 60, etc. Wages have doubled in many of the electronics manufacturers during this period. Does this reach a standard we would consider fair, free, and empowering for workers? No, absolutely not. We don't want 15 year olds working. We don't want people working 50 hours a week. But significant progress has been made. Instances of 11 year olds working have dropped enormously in the last decade. As has the workers working 100 hours a week.. Today most of the issues in the labor supply chain deal with subcontracting agreements and enforcing the standards of primary manufacturers throughout the manufacturing chain. So, in other words, Foxconn is no longer the main problem, and now we're focusing on making sure all the companies Foxconn subcontracts with aren't either. These improvements have stemmed both from Chinese economic growth and the maturing Chinese middle class, and also due to NGOs and western companies forcing Foxconn and other manufacturers to meet higher standards.
While the Foxconn suicides are extremely disturbing, there is limited or no evidence that suicide rates in electronics manufacturing are higher than in any other industry. Foxconn has almost a million employees. During the period that the Foxconn suicides were widely reported, they had 15 suicides in a year. No one would look at, for instance, Austin Texas and conclude that 15 adult aged suicides in a year means something has gone gravely wrong with Austin (or Foxconn). Moreover, and this should not be surprising given what I've just told you, the suicide rate at Foxconn was substantially lower than similar aged individuals elsewhere in China (largely because despite all of the very real problems at Foxconn at the time, other alternatives were worse). The frame shouldn't be "There were suicides at Foxconn. Fuck all this." It should be "What can we do to improve the life of people working in these conditions?"
I think if you feel this passionately about labor conditions in China, you should look into organizations that aim to help average people in China and see what they say and where they see things going in the next 10-20 years. I should say that none of this speaks to other and unrelated social issues in China, like for instance the Uyghur concentration camps, ongoing state censorship, the One China meddling in Hong Kong, etc. There are many reasons why you might personally choose to boycott buying goods from foreign areas: not because you believe your boycott is helping Chinese workers, but because you do not want any moral complicity in those other things. That's fine, I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to think about hard problems. But don't pretend such an attitude makes the lives of Chinese workers better.
You guys really gotta start putting some sources on your comments. Its extremely annoying to read this long and otherwise well thought comment without being able to verify a single thing on it. It would also give your points much more credence. Cheers!
Aaaaw crap, triple post..
If there's a way to get rid of them both I'll take it.