Back then market was like - fast grow, fast decline. Now it's different.Yes but the Wii sold considerably faster at its peak, which is what he was trying to get at
Back then market was like - fast grow, fast decline. Now it's different.Yes but the Wii sold considerably faster at its peak, which is what he was trying to get at
No, the Wii had a fast decline for a system as successful as it. The PS2 and DS, for example, didn't experience anything like that. Even systems like the PS3 and 360 continued to sell well even later on in their lifespan. It wasn't until next gen consoles hit that their sales fell off hardBack then market was like - fast grow, fast decline. Now it's different.
I think you are severely over estimating the interest that Japan has in home consoles. Notice that every console you mentioned being a success was a success world wide. I have no idea what you think a "a console that cater to their interest" is but I can't for the life of me think of any form of a home console that would have any chance in hell of being successful in Japan besides one that can also be used as a portable (ie Switch). And if that is the only way to create a successful home console in Japan then we are arguing semantics.Yet they bought PSP despite it having vastly more immense competition from the DS which sold over 32 million in Japan.
Yet the Wii sold well in Japan at 13 million, far more than Vita and 2/3 of Japan's standard of 20 million for a winning home console.
Even the Wii U sold disproportionately well in Japan, it took the PS4 two years to pass the Wii U there.
Reality is: while Japan does generally prefer portable consoles, a major reason isn't anything to do with portability, it's simply that nobody has released a home console that is well designed, well supported and caters to their tastes since the Wii. They even gave the crappy Wii U more of a shake than everywhere else did. PS4 is a western designed and western focused PConsole, it's more an Xbox successor (literally, having an X86 chip) than a PS2 successor. Japan-focused devs tried to force the PS4 to succeed, even giving it mainline Dragon Quest despite it being by far the least successful system in history to receive a new mainline Dragon Quest. It didn't work.
And now as a result, Nintendo as a publisher is utterly dominant in Japan, because most other publishers have spent a decade simply not releasing their biggest and best games on the most successful hardware. Even games whose primary audience is Japanese.
Just think about it for two seconds.
DS is a handheld. A handheld what?
I dare say that next gen will be a harder battle to 100m. Sony's main advantage this gen was that Microsoft had fucked up so badly they couldn't compete in the sales race.
2020 is going to be interesting.
PS3 and 360 benefited greatly from a Cold War between Sony and Microsoft, who both lost so much money they extended the generation to try and claw back some of their losses. It was EIGHT years between Xbox 360 and Bone. Never before has there been a generation that long where a competitor didn't jump in and start the next generation earlier.No, the Wii had a fast decline for a system as successful as it. The PS2 and DS, for example, didn't experience anything like that. Even systems like the PS3 and 360 continued to sell well even later on in their lifespan. It wasn't until next gen consoles hit that their sales fell off hard
But Playstation got all the big hitters in Japan from Third party, from MHW to the Mainline FF and KH games.
The only games that are popular in Japan that PS4 didnt get are Nintendo games.
And Nintendo didnt really put disproportionally big focus on Japan, besides Splatoon none of their currently released franchises are the breakout megafranchises japan loves(they all seem to come this year though, with DQ11, New Pokemon gen, Yokai, Animal Crossing).
There is that too, albeit I'd also argue that stuff like online gaming and account systems, as well as the systems taking some time to become affordable, played a small part in that as well but, even so, yeah, it's insane how much of a gap there wasPS3 and 360 benefited greatly from a Cold War between Sony and Microsoft, who both lost so much money they extended the generation to try and claw back some of their losses. It was EIGHT years between Xbox 360 and Bone. Never before has there been a generation that long where a competitor didn't jump in and start the next generation earlier.
Well technically the Wii U was the early entry, but as a complete dud it has no impact.
Wii did have a fast decline for a winning console, it had a normal sales curve (not a fad) but basically had a losing console's tail despite being the runaway home console winner. But that's because it's also the only ever winner to get jack all third party support. Never before has the winner got less support than the losers.
Eh, I'm not sure. While yeah, Sony doesn't care about putting out games the market will like, I don't think people want a big home machine to play videogames. It's just not a big selling point, pushes the price too high and many don't have the time to play something like that. Graphics/tech is way less important to gaming consumers in Japan than in the west.This is probably a chicken and egg situation but I don't think Sony's combined effort as platform holder and software developer shows that they care a lot about Japan. Getting MHW and DQXI was obviously notable and I am not downplaying it but the PS4 hardware sales cannot be simply explained by a decreasing interest in stationary consoles. As a first party, they largely don't make games for the Japanese market anymore.
For Nintendo on the other hand, Japan is still an extremely important market that informs many of their hardware and software decisions.
Not just over there though. Seems people all over the world like the idea of a hybrid console.It's interesting to see how this has played out. Sony is number one all over because they built a system for the world, whereas Nintendo build a system to scratch the itch Japanese players have and they're crushing it over there.
The consoles it outsold were all considered flops, and I saw that you later acknowledged your mistake, but pointing out the Vita is the 6th/7th most successful handheld is silly because there are only five/six successful handhelds. That's like defending the Wii U's performance saying it's Nintendo's 6th/7th most successful home console. Being in the top 10 is not an accomplishment if there aren't 10 strong participants.
one that is priced like a console, with games priced like console games instead of cheap handheld games, and passed the sales of its competitor in less than half the time on the market. there's no way to spin this into anything other than impressive, or pretend this was the expected outcome.
I think someone would have to be not paying attention to the market if they thought price was the reason handhelds performed better than consoles over there. I think it's impressive how quickly it's selling but not impressive on beating a home console in this market.one that is priced like a console, with games priced like console games instead of cheap handheld games, and passed the sales of its competitor in less than half the time on the market. there's no way to spin this into anything other than impressive, or pretend this was the expected outcome.
And now 3rd parties are forced to focus on the west because they can't sell well in their home market.Most japanese franchises lost their potential by being on only PS3/PS4 for a decade while the Nintendo portables were the true mainstream systems in the country. Now they have no mindshare or lost a lot of it to most consumers.
That's a big reason why almost only Nintendo franchises are mainstream in the country. These are the games that were available to people who bought the DS and 3DS.
That still wasn't the point, but I guess pointlessly playin' console wars is more important.
of course being a handheld helps a lot, but it's quite reductive to say "of course it did, it's a handheld". not every handheld gets to outsell successful consoles, specially one that doesn't have the price advantages of normal handhelds.I think someone would have to be not paying attention to the market if they thought price was the reason handhelds performed better than consoles over there. I think it's impressive how quickly it's selling but not impressive on beating a home console in this market.
This all stems from your comment that "They also had huge install bases on PSP and PSVita." Under 6 million in Japan is a pathetic number, calling it a "huge install base" then arguing that it has a huge install base in Japan compared to its install base in other markets dilutes your point to a meaningless state. Japan likes handhelds but the Vita remains by far Sony's worst-selling system, home or portable. "Huge" is just not an adjective you can use to qualify its install base in any market, or would you call Dragonball Evolution a "huge success" as well?
They screwed up. That's why most of their IPs don't get new entries and they have to focus on the few ones that are safe to develop for western audiences.And now 3rd parties are forced to focus on the west because they can't sell well in their home market.
To be honest, I wouldn't call the PS4 a successful console in Japan at all. Pretty mediocre results, even more considering it had everything it could in terms of games to boost sales (new FF, new mainline DQ, new MonHun, new Kingdom Hearts, all the long running third party series, etc). It's bizarre that it may do sub 10M even.of course being a handheld helps a lot, but it's quite reductive to say "of course it did, it's a handheld". not every handheld gets to outsell successful consoles, specially one that doesn't have the price advantages of normal handhelds.
And as opposed to other markets, the install base WAS huge, Japan kept the thing alive by themselves for years. The point was, that even the least popular handhelds were much bigger deals in Japan than elsewhere, due to their affinity for handhelds. That's all there is to it. I couldn't care less for how people go berserk at the sole mention of the damn Vita.
maybe successful isn't the right word, but as far as home consoles can theoretically sell in japan these days, it did decently enough.To be honest, I wouldn't call the PS4 a successful console in Japan at all. Pretty mediocre results, even more considering it had everything it could in terms of games to boost sales (new FF, new mainline DQ, new MonHun, new Kingdom Hearts, all the long running third party series, etc). It's bizarre that it may do sub 10M even.
I wish Sony would push more Japanese first party content. I know the Japanese market isn't what it used to be but one of the main reasons I loved PlayStation in the first place was its quirky Japanese title exclusives which they had all the way to the PS3 but somehow lacked the PS4. Dammit.
I don't get this discussion to be honest. Yeah, the Vita didn't sell well, but its performance in Japan, its biggest market, still proves they're way more likely to buy a portable system than any other country. You're basically at disadvantage from the start already if your system is home only.Tbh from your many many many many posts in this thread it simply looks like you went berserk once people stated that vita did not have a huge installbase in japan.
But i guess raging and calling people fanboys when they try to present facts is fun.
Breath of the Wild sold more than 12 million copies worldwide on the Switch and Capcom still won't localize Okami outside Japan.Company decisions are based on more than just console A sold this much. Yeah, its a factor but audience for one, is also a big factor.
PS4 was successful in japan for what Sony wanted, that was to increase the sales of their western games and of the games of their western partner 3rd parties.They screwed up. That's why most of their IPs don't get new entries and they have to focus on the few ones that are safe to develop for western audiences.
To be honest, I wouldn't call the PS4 a successful console in Japan at all. Pretty mediocre results, even more considering it had everything it could in terms of games to boost sales (new FF, new mainline DQ, new MonHun, new Kingdom Hearts, all the long running third party series, etc). It's bizarre that it may do sub 10M even.
Switch did this without a new monster hunter, without a new generation Pokémon, without animal crossing or any big game, no dragon quest
And it did really well in Japan compared to everywhere else, yes. Didn't they keep making games for it there even after it was discontinued? Portability is huge in Japan.
Well sure, they don't care about selling hardware in Japan too much. But when looking at the market, PS4 selling 9M is a pretty meh number. And the PS5 will probably go even lower as it's likely to be even more aimed at what the west wants, that goes against what the mainstream console market wants in Japan.PS4 was successful in japan for what Sony wanted, that was to increase the sales of their western games and of the games of their western partner 3rd parties.
Tbh from your many many many many posts in this thread it simply looks like you went berserk once people stated that vita did not have a huge installbase in japan.
But i guess raging and calling people fanboys when they try to present facts is fun.
it did pretty ok in Japan, until people caught on that Sony sunsetted it early
um...
I don't get this discussion to be honest. Yeah, the Vita didn't sell well, but its performance in Japan, its biggest market, still proves they're way more likely to buy a portable system than any other country. You're basically at disadvantage from the start already if your system is home only.
Besides the "huge" word, that I disagree with, I think both "sides" are kinda right.
I think someone would have to be not paying attention to the market if they thought price was the reason handhelds performed better than consoles over there. I think it's impressive how quickly it's selling but not impressive on beating a home console in this market.
But as you can see in this thread many people are ok with this. "PS4 selling 8 million is better than expected" and other statements. There is also people saying that it doesn't matter that switch sells more because 3rd parties should focus on the biggest market (the west). Basically Sony created a super western focused industry and it is working very well for them. What Nintendo did was show that the Japanese focused approach is still worth it and can sell well not only in Japan but worldwide.Well sure, they don't care about selling hardware in Japan too much. But when looking at the market, PS4 selling 9M is a pretty meh number. And the PS5 will probably go even lower as it's likely to be even more aimed at what the west wants, that goes against what the mainstream console market wants in Japan.
Its literally on the eshop already for ages as we are speaking :PBreath of the Wild sold more than 12 million copies worldwide on the Switch and Capcom still won't localize Okami outside Japan.
Thats one of them AI generated responses. I wouldn't take it seriously.
I know. That doesn't mean I don't get to complain about it.Sony has made it abundantly clear they dont give a flying fuck about smaller japanese devs
Like I said, I feel like Capcom is more concerned about next-gen at this point than the Switch (outside of, say, Mega Man & Ace Attorney) going by their 2019-2020 fiscal year outlook.Congratulations to Nintendo! I hope that's a good enough test for Capcom.
That's true @ Sony trying to push the industry to that direction. I would agree that Nintendo could open the doors to more variety in japanese third party gaming, but for now I'm just disappointed with the third parties and I think they're getting the wrong message even from the Switch's success, with companies like even Atlus basically not releasing any AA games for it. Feels like some 3rd parties didn't notice yet it's also a portable machine and can sell their games in the domestic market too.But as you can see in this thread many people are ok with this. "PS4 selling 8 million is better than expected" and other statements. There is also people saying that it doesn't matter that switch sells more because 3rd parties should focus on the biggest market (the west). Basically Sony created a super western focused industry and it is working very well for them. What Nintendo did was show that the Japanese focused approach is still worth it and can sell well not only in Japan but worldwide.
I don't know man. I feel an awful lot of the "I prefer the Switch because it's portable" camp will only buy a portable built by Nintendo. I'm sure my opinion is shared by a few people in the conference rooms at Sony headquarters.
Ah yes, stunted growth for a console in their home country has led to this, a couple hundred thousand sales more total on their western game sales! Brilliant plan, can't believe they pulled it off.PS4 was successful in japan for what Sony wanted, that was to increase the sales of their western games and of the games of their western partner 3rd parties.
This is a pretty important milestone for Nintendo, as higher visibility in the domestic market means higher likelihood of being the lead (or only) platform for games developed primarily for the Japanese market, and with the way Switch sales are outpacing PS4 sales domestically, the visibility is though the roof right now.
that's impossible (as you said) and will remain impossible for the duration of ps5's life. maybe a few years into next gen a portable ps4 becomes feasible, MAYBE.So yup, that is my impossible dream. I wouldn't expect such a thing at launch with the PS5, maybe a couple years after to let component prices come down further and maybe have it on a 5nm or 3nm process if they're ready to reduce the power draw. I'd hope by having it launch a couple years after the PS5 they could get the price down to the same price the PS5 itself launches at. IF, and this is a huge IF, they are able to make a portable that can play all the same games the PS5 can then that's the only realistic way I see Sony having an immensely popular portable. Having them try to support the PS5 and a portable with its own separate ecosystem won't end well with their current studio count and their current output. Given the two possibilities of Sony either getting more studios to develop for a portable with its own games, or Sony making a portable PS5 that plays all the PS5's games, I find the latter option more realistic (again, lol).