World of light, a couple of reaaaaaally problematic spirit fights.
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Nintendo took down a Smash stage containing trans flag and suspended the player that posted it because it was considered a "political statement"
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
A number of black characters in adventure mode are represented by donkey Kong or diddy Kong. I think it was Sandman from Punchout represented by Donkey Kong and Dee Jay from street fighter as Diddy Kong
Because its resetera? This shit pops up every day with a different topic
This only became public a few hours ago (judging by the timestamps in the OP) when Nintendo of Japan/still asleep was waking up and when Nintendo of America was leaving work/at home, and so far the post explaining the situation (which isn't directed at any of Nintendo's official social media accounts) seems to be sitting at a relatively low amount of retweets (the OP didn't link to the tweets so I don't know what the number is). Nintendo may be a massive corporation but no corporation can both notice and then handle something like this that fast.
I also don't think they would have been able to 'immediately' jump in even if the timing had made sense for them to do so. Very few companies ever have a completely centralised 'customer service' system, especially one where higher-ups can make judgement calls on a case-by-case basis. Nintendo, like most (if not all) companies their size, has customer service divisions wholly seperate to their main offices, that is if they even 'own' those divisions themselves instead of them just being simply contractors.
Has 24 hrs even passed/ is anybody covering this? I don't think any big company works that fast if this all happened today.
Sadly, no they haven't. I just played Adventure Mode (NG+) recently & still saw the Mr. Sandman spirit battle with DK.
I'm not saying they don't have time to make this right, only that it looks awful right now and the fact that the original customer service person couldn't make it right is also an issue.
Again, companies can NOT leave space for any interpretation for hate. If you leave wiggle room for hateful assholes, they will swarm in. It's how the alt-right operates right now. They KNOW they can't be openly racist and they know their idols and people of power can't say what they really mean, so they look for the cracks and holes. They look for the code signs that say they are welcome, even when what's being said doesn't quite match. The current US president knows this better than anyone and makes nods to the people he can't just outright admit to wanting the support of.
If you leave any sort of ambiguity to these assholes not being welcome, they will take it as a sign that they are. That's why it's important to get a statement out as quickly as possible making their stance as clear as possible.
Nintendo continues to be an absolute joke. WTF. Let people support others, why are they punishing positivity?
I think maybe this was an automated delete and not necessarily an intentional statement of it being too political. Even the support agreed it should not have been removed and suggested the person contact through forum another email. so i will give nintendo the benefit of the doubt for now. fault still lies with them for leaving deletion to a system that is not functioning appropriately.
I really shouldn't be surprised by Nintendo at this point, but man this makes me feel bad. Trans rights should not be viewed as a political statement, and to claim they deleted it because it is political is bullshit. Automated delete or not, Nintendo allowing this is making a political statement, and shows how little they actually care about the LGBTQ+ community.
Nintendo's afraid of their own community that is pro-LGBT, which isn't a political statement to be supportive of all people.
Trans rights are absolutely a political statement...that's the whole point. Being pro-trans is a political stance. LGBT people are well aware the majority of the world doesn't like us.
Customer service representatives rarely (if ever) have the power to do things such as rescind the decisions of 'higher ups' (i.e. almost everyone else in the company') unless those decisions were an objective mistake. The rep's inability to change this shouldn't be a knock on Nintendo, especially since the rep itself voiced their displeasure at the decision.
As for the rest, I disagree in that this will 'leave the door open' for the alt-right to invade Nintendo's spaces. It's an incredibly minor incident in the grand scheme of things and there are many signs that Nintendo does allow trans-positive content in their games. However I doubt you're going to change your mind on that stance so I'm gonna leave this here.
Nintendo themselves didn't allow this, a moderator with an all-too-prevalent shitty opinion used the policy of 'No Political Posts' to allow themselves to take down this particular content. This ain't like THQ where you have board members actively pulling awful moves so, unless this escalates (whether that be with mass-removals of trans content or a statement from Nintendo supporting the decision) it's a bit of a misjudgement imo to paint Nintendo in that bad of a light.
Sorry I didn't mean it that way. I just mean that it shouldn't have been political in the first place, it should have been a thing people accept. But I understand your point and will remember it in the future.
I appologize for offending you and others.
Did they atleast comment on this?
I don't understand what the hell they were thinking to do this. If they don't want to represent these characters the right way then don't do it.
I am not sure who the hell approves these things but if it is Sakurai then he needs to understand what he has done and aknowledge it. Same goes to others on the team and Nintendo itself if they keep fucking up. It is truly a disgusting thing.
if there's one thing I love, it is logging on to reset era dot com and defending corporations when they ban a member of a marginalized group for doing something that harms literally no one
I really really wanna know what is going on behind closed doors at Nintendo...
First these racist stereotypes in Smash and now THIS?
You can't tell me that NoA doesn't understand how wrong this is but how
much does NCL care or say this should stay...
I'm heavily disappointed by Nintendo and there should be more pressure so that they have to fix this
First these racist stereotypes in Smash and now THIS?
You can't tell me that NoA doesn't understand how wrong this is but how
much does NCL care or say this should stay...
I'm heavily disappointed by Nintendo and there should be more pressure so that they have to fix this
You're right. I was being stupid and naive. The idea that a trans flag was viewed as worthy of a ban just got me angry and I should have been better with my wording. I am sorry, and didn't mean to seem dismissive . I just really hated the idea that showing any support of trans rights is a bannable offense.
I can understand that. However, if Nintendo doesn't unban this person, it kind of reads like they are passively supporting this mod's shitty behavior. I really hope that the company will respond to the bad press and try to rectify the situation.
They need to release a statement apologizing for the mistake (assuming it was), explaining how it occurred, and explaining how they plan to address it.
Same thing applies to the racist stuff. I think that never got real traction because of plausible deniability as to the intent (Donkey Kong was in Punch Out Wii, he's really strong, Diddy uses a b-box in DKC2, they're Japanese devs, etc.) but the result (black people being associated with apes, monkeys, and thieves) is undeniably racist.
They need to address this. Now.
Same thing applies to the racist stuff. I think that never got real traction because of plausible deniability as to the intent (Donkey Kong was in Punch Out Wii, he's really strong, Diddy uses a b-box in DKC2, they're Japanese devs, etc.) but the result (black people being associated with apes, monkeys, and thieves) is undeniably racist.
They need to address this. Now.
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The problem is that Nintendo never owns up and makes this stance clear, and they have had troublesome issues in the not-so-distant past on these things (see the Fire Emblem conversion conversation mentioned earlier). It shouldn't be passive "Nintendo allows it." it should be declarative and affirmative. "Nintendo welcomes it" and "Nintendo will not tolerate any negative stances against people of any nation, creed, sexual orientation, etc".
Honestly, I'm not sure what you think my mind needs changing on... Passive IS harmful, especially when mistakes like these happen. They may seem small, but to a trans or any LGBTQ+ person it feels big and when a company makes a mistake and doesn't own to it, it feels dismissive. And as I said, they aren't the only ones watching, if it's not corrected and denounced, the alt-right will see it as support. This is how they function as a whole. They know they aren't welcome in 'polite' society so to speak, this is not a controversial statement. This is well known, it's why the alt-right have a ton of little tells like the OK hand gesture, and coded phrases.
You don't leave room for misinterpretation.
To be honest I totally believe the "it was a misjudgment" argument because when you realize how 100% completely unmoderated the mode was when it first launched I wouldn't be surprised if they were in a rush to get all of the dicks, swastikas, penises, 9/11 jokes, weiners, swear words, and dicks off of their platform that they potentially just started deleting everything that was reported. I'm not an employee so I can't confirm, but it sounds to me they were incredibly unstaffed for this and might only have just a few seconds to review content like Facebook mods do.
Now then, does that excuse not having an appeal function or the silence on Nintendo's part? Not at all.
Now then, does that excuse not having an appeal function or the silence on Nintendo's part? Not at all.
Lol at the outrage in this thread.
I'm sure this went up to the Nintendo Execs. and they all collectively stamped their foot, slapped their hand and proclaimed "NOT IN OUR GAME"
Wouldn't be surprised if nobody at Nintendo apart from CS has heard about this lol.
CS response is such a bullshit cop out too. "We dont agree either, you should take it to corporate"
Maybe escalate the matter internally ?
I'm sure this went up to the Nintendo Execs. and they all collectively stamped their foot, slapped their hand and proclaimed "NOT IN OUR GAME"
Wouldn't be surprised if nobody at Nintendo apart from CS has heard about this lol.
CS response is such a bullshit cop out too. "We dont agree either, you should take it to corporate"
Maybe escalate the matter internally ?
No lies detected. It's a shame but I'm afraid it is a political statement.
Nintendo must be wishing right now they didn't make the customizable stages shareable, isn't it?
Unfortunately, neither Nintendo nor Sakurai have yet to comment on the racist spirits.
Oh no need to apologize, we're cool. It's just that i've see that point come up again and again and i let it all out in a single go.
Yeah. That's definitely a possibility. Especially with the huge influx of stages. It was a pretty bad fuck up though.
If you look through this thread you will find evidence that proves otherwise.
Thanks for the info.
I wish they would aknowledge they screwed up at the very least because it really is disgusting, especially for them. Nintendo is supposedly a platform for everyone and yet they do this? Absolutely disgusting of them and I fear they will never learn from their mistakes.
No worries. I try to be as progressive as possible so these kinds of posts are welcome.
Can't improve if you never hear people's feeling and thoughts.
Not that I know of. I wouldn't say it's a cultural thing but PlayStation is a California based company and thus very socially conscious. Nintendo's a Japanese based company but you would think their American division is somewhat autonomous.
Everything is politics if you think about it. This was a celebration of their identity and their right to exist.
Taking it down is a political statement. It's choosing sides with the bigots. It's saying that their right to exist is still up for debate. It's absolutely horrible and Nintendo should clarify.
Huh?
Sony(PlayStation) is a Japanese corporation just like Nintendo with a US-based division.
You guys are placing waaaaay too much importance on the whims of whatever intern handles this stuff.
By all means, point to an official statement made by Nintendo on their stance about LGBTQ+. Bonus points if it was already posted in this thread and I missed it.
(edit) I see the handbook, that is great internally, and the pride parade is also a great outward facing sign! Now we just need a publically released statement by the company denouncing people using their services to promote any sort of hate, and to clear up the issues in the OP and I'll be happy.
Sony Interactive Entertainment is a US division of Sony Corporation, a Japanese company. SIE operates from their main HQ which is located in San Mateo, CA.
Nintendo tends to be very conservative on social issues and tends to shy away from these subjects.
Seems to me it really is a problem with NCL and how conservative/behind the times they are.
It's good, but not specifically for trans people. I don't want to make this a purity test, but Nintendo has done something concerning the LGBT community. They just aren't terribly upfront about it.
This was one case and I doubt the person who banned this was even from NCL.
There is nothing any more inherently sexual about a trans person than there is about a cis person.