Mar 11, 2020
5,511
woof, yeah dunno much about antdude but with that context thats a big deal
Just FYI Antdude was also defending Jirard for a while until he finally started doing damage control and tried to pass off some previous statements with context that wasn't there when he posted. I'm not saying he wasn't affected by this too but I don't think Antdude is that good a guy either.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,161
If someone needs to be publicly shamed in order to do better, I'm honestly okay with that. I'm just not a huge fan of dissecting people's apologies to decide if it's good enough. Wondering why they said this or didn't say that. Or why'd they use these words instead of those words. At some point I wonder what the offender could possibly say to satiate the public.

Of course this doesn't apply to the truly awful "apologies" that actually don't take responsibility or make any promises to do better. That said, of course I think this particular apology is empty due to the fact that, like you said, he had ample opportunities to learn from his mistakes. All we can do is support the victims and see if his actions stack up to his words.
Is it important that the offender be able to satiate the public with an apology?

Ultimately, when the issue is with a harmful pattern of action, the thing that really matters is correcting the pattern of action. An apology might help to emotionally reassure people that the problem is being acknowledged and the correction is going to occur, but it in and of itself isn't the correction, and it can easily be argued that it's in fact in a better position to serve the offender than the victims since basically all it can serve to do is paint an image of the offender's thoughts and feelings.

When we approach the apology with the question of "what does Chuggaaconroy have to do in order to repair his reputation", we've putting the focus on Chuggaaconroy and the damage caused to him. But the actual issue is about the victims - again, multiple victims and not just the initial accuser, this is important - and the harm that Chuggaaconroy has caused to them.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,747
Just FYI Antdude was also defending Jirard for a while until he finally started doing damage control and tried to pass off some previous statements with context that wasn't there when he posted. I'm not saying he wasn't affected by this too but I don't think Antdude is that good a guy either.
Him doing everything he could to stick his head in the sand and stand y his friend when it came to what Jirard did was indeed bad. It should probably lend more weight to his words here if he's willing to give friends such a big benefit of the doubt but just can't when it comes to Emile.
 

Macca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,524
Just FYI Antdude was also defending Jirard for a while until he finally started doing damage control and tried to pass off some previous statements with context that wasn't there when he posted. I'm not saying he wasn't affected by this too but I don't think Antdude is that good a guy either.

AntDude or SonicDude previously I remember being a bit of a dickhead back in the day. Dunno if he's improved on that front or not. Just remember on Twitter being you know South Park edgy like 10 years ago
 

Silent

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,479
Is it important that the offender be able to satiate the public with an apology?

Ultimately, when the issue is with a pattern of action, the thing that really matters is correcting the pattern of action. An apology might help to emotionally reassure people that the problem is being acknowledged and the correction is going to occur, but it in and of itself isn't the correction, and it can easily be argued that it's in fact in a better position to serve the offender than the victims since basically all it can serve to do is paint an image of the offender's thoughts and feelings.
No, it's not important, but at that point it's like, what do you want them to say? Clearly if they say nothing, they'll be criticized, and if they do, their words would be picked apart no matter what. Of course I agree the correction is more important than the apology. From your post it makes it sound like you believe it would be better not to publicly apologize at all, but I don't think the public would accept that either.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,827
This is horrific and sad. I hope the people he harassed over the years are doing okay and can find community where this behavior isn't tolerated.

Also, I have to believe that the "shoes are a hobby" thing is some bizarre coping mechanism for a fetish he has, because the alternative explanation is that he's intentionally using that as a shield to deflect criticism for harassment and it's one of the most asinine, least believable excuses I've ever heard.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,161
No, it's not important, but at that point it's like, what do you want them to say? Clearly if they say nothing, they'll be criticized, and if they do, their words would be picked apart no matter what. Of course I agree the correction is more important than the apology. From your post it makes it sound like you believe it would be better not to publicly apologize at all, but I don't think the public would accept that either.
No, I'm not saying that he shouldn't apologize at all. I'm saying what it is that I actually said. I don't think it's important that he be able to satiate the public.

To start with, Chuggaaconroy is a celebrity, meaning he's in a position of unusual influence than the majority of people are not. It's a position of unusual privilege. We often approach this with the idea that it is normal and natural for him to be in this position and that it is unfair for him to have that status taken from him unless it's thoroughly justified. But is it fair for him to even have this position of unusual privilege when we now know that he abuses that privilege? Why is it important than Chuggaaconroy gets to keep the same celebrity status when there are less harmful people who could be promoted instead? If you were given a special position and you used it to abuse others, maybe it's okay if you don't get to have that particular position anymore.

Secondly, I do think an apology can be good, but it should ultimately be subservient to the purpose of reducing harm. The ideal apology in my mind isn't just saying that you feel bad. You're the offender, who cares if you feel bad, you should feel bad right now to motivate yourself doing better and alleviate that feeling. Feeling bad isn't the reimbursement for the damage caused here. Rather, an ideal apology would be an acknowledgement of the harm caused, and then a specific plan of action on how they intend to correct things going forward.
 
Last edited:

Lozjam

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
1,969
This is pretty sad and damning. I really thought Emile had made amends after his apology, and have been trying to be better the past few months. And I thought the situation was more or less settled. Where he would try to be better, and turn a new leaf.

However, the fact that this has been happening for years, with several people and empty apologies. Yeah, his apology was awful, and I don't see a future where I can watch him.

Hearing Masae's words about the situation is really awful, and it hits the nail on the head. I'm very sorry to all of the victims. This has literally been happening over a decade, with no changes to behavior.
Just FYI Antdude was also defending Jirard for a while until he finally started doing damage control and tried to pass off some previous statements with context that wasn't there when he posted. I'm not saying he wasn't affected by this too but I don't think Antdude is that good a guy either.
Antdude was trying to navigate a situation that he did not have the full details on. A lot of people were in Antdude's shoes of giving the benefit of the doubt, before full evidence started coming up. What's important is that when all of information did come out, he stated disassociating.

I'm not saying that he didn't make a mistake, however I think we should realize that it's a mistake literally anyone can make. Imagine if a close friend was being investigated for fraud or something, and you talked with them personally and they assured you it was just a misunderstanding, or showed you(with circumstantial or incomplete evidence) they were innocent. A lot of people would believe their friend first and foremost. It's a completely different situation.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,567
Yeah can we please stop diminishing antdude's statement because of a completely different situation?
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,161
RE: Antdude. Everyone everywhere is operating on incomplete information and just trying to make the best decisions they can make at that moment. I don't remember the incident too well, but sounds like Antdude was just wrong that time. It happens to all of us. We try to avoid it and might have to compensate for it when we do it, but being wrong by itself isn't a crime.
 

TheAggroCraig

This guy are sick of the One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,039
AntDude or SonicDude previously I remember being a bit of a dickhead back in the day. Dunno if he's improved on that front or not. Just remember on Twitter being you know South Park edgy like 10 years ago

Everyone was South Park edgy 10 years ago, people are allowed to change especially in that amount of time.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,161
I haven't read all the pages in this thread, did this person do more than talk about shoes and feet or is that it?
Depends on what you mean by "talk about shoes and feet", I guess. There's been no mention of any physical escalation or anything like that, but at this point more than one woman has mentioned that he attempted to pressure them into fetishized foot roleplay, he seems to have gotten shoe pictures from multiple fans and sent Emily shoes as a pretext to pressuring her for them, and so on.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
10,119
His apology was a terrible thing from the get go, basically a "sorry I was caught" where he excused his actions as being a misunderstanding rather than sexual harassment with the way he denied the foot fetish. Not surprising other victims are speaking up now, and I'm glad that they feel empowered to do so now.

I know nothing about this guy who's been accused but I hope he loses his platform and rots
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,767
No idea why he would even bring up the shoes thing. It just makes the situation worse for him. "I'm just really passionate about shoes as a hobby" while multiple women are saying he has pushed RP foot fetish conversations and feet pics. Keep digging that hole.
 

Macca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,524
No idea why he would even bring up the shoes thing. It just makes the situation worse for him. "I'm just really passionate about shoes as a hobby" while multiple women are saying he has pushed RP foot fetish conversations and feet pics. Keep digging that hole.

I think he probably expected that last statement was gonna be the last of it. Although surely he should've expected Masae was gonna comment on it eventually especially considering MAGFest was going on.
 

Mushirigo

Member
Jun 9, 2019
85
Sweden
Such a shame when internet personalities you've watched for years turn out to be creepy weirdos. And it keeps happening, sad.
 
Mar 11, 2020
5,511
Antdude was trying to navigate a situation that he did not have the full details on. A lot of people were in Antdude's shoes of giving the benefit of the doubt, before full evidence started coming up. What's important is that when all of information did come out, he stated disassociating.

I'm not saying that he didn't make a mistake, however I think we should realize that it's a mistake literally anyone can make. Imagine if a close friend was being investigated for fraud or something, and you talked with them personally and they assured you it was just a misunderstanding, or showed you(with circumstantial or incomplete evidence) they were innocent. A lot of people would believe their friend first and foremost. It's a completely different situation.
I was more bothered by his excuse of why he said what he did when Jirard's first response came out like he hadn't watched it and that it proved everything about Jirard was wrong and then backtracked after the fact and tried to add other context. As far as i know he didn't rectify that and his apology came across as an excuse for that tweet. That specifically is what makes his response sound like damage control instead of actually reflecting on his relationship with Jirard and made EVERYTHING seem insincere to me.

I liked Antdude too before all that.
Yeah can we please stop diminishing antdude's statement because of a completely different situation?
Sorry that wasn't my intent, yes this is going off topic, i just didn't want he himself being put up on a pedestal as a standard. His statement is still valid.
 
Last edited:

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
11,219
No idea why he would even bring up the shoes thing. It just makes the situation worse for him. "I'm just really passionate about shoes as a hobby" while multiple women are saying he has pushed RP foot fetish conversations and feet pics. Keep digging that hole.

He's bringing that part up mostly as a flimsy cover for things like that video with him waxing lyrical about the underaged pokemon character shoes/feet.... It's not like the cartoon character can give their side.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,441
At this point I'm surprised there haven't been charges against him. Seems to be a pattern with potentially other victims.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
107,857
Initially when I saw Emile's apology, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - but this here is really damning.

He was probably hoping he could just skate on by with just a brief mention of having harassed others, but those floodgates opened and then some
 

Lebon30

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
Canada
I had that post ready before Masae came out... I didn't post it because I feared it'll come back against me. But with Masae coming out and confirmation that there were more than 1 victim, I wanted to at least leave a message behind. Of course there are always more than a victim with predators... *sigh* And I wasn't even aware she, Masae, separated herself off Chuggaa and TRG. Now, there's definitely a pattern and I now definitely think that Chuggaa deserves all the heat for doing that garbage - even if it's for foot fetishes (ew). And for how long? Yeah...

I haven't watched him in years now and I, recently, before this blew up, thought about dedicating some time to his Pokemon Black LP but now I don't want to anymore.

It's always the same. History is bound to repeat itself over and over... except with different people.
 

Kindekuma

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,807
I remembered Masae being very prevalent with Emile, even showing up in many, many StephenVlog videos with him. Reading her thread that they haven't talked in years and she wants nothing to do with him is fucked. What a gross dude.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,567
I'm hating all of the "I was on Emile's side until Masae's tweet." Thanks for proving how much it takes for you to believe women.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,483
No idea why he would even bring up the shoes thing. It just makes the situation worse for him. "I'm just really passionate about shoes as a hobby" while multiple women are saying he has pushed RP foot fetish conversations and feet pics. Keep digging that hole.

Denying it's a fetish means denying it's sexual harassment. Take his apology for what it is: he's apologizing for harassing people and crossing boundaries for a mere hobby. Which of course makes no fucking sense.

Read his apology again and see the content he's been called out for is being presented by him as a sidenote, as if he actually did something else that was the "real" problem. It's not a "by the way" sort of thing, it's the thing a number of people have said he does, makes them uncomfortable, and still does it.
 

Rika

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,585
USA
Same, and it seems a lot of his fans have turned with this too. At one point I thought Emilie and Masae might by mirroring the Proton Jon and Lucahjin route (who are now married). To find out that no, even back then Emilie was being such a giga creep that she hasn't wanted to associate with him in years, there's no walking that back.
A bit off topic but wow I've not thought of Lucahjin in many years, and even just remembered watching KPopp years ago around the same time period.

I'm so glad Masae came forward because after Chugga's apology a lot of people started painting Emily as the irrational one. Like you could see the narrative shift in real time. Without others corroborating this would have been completely buried, or worse even seen as a endearing story for Chugga.
I am glad Masae came forward too!
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,884
Gatorland
I'm hating all of the "I was on Emile's side until Masae's tweet." Thanks for proving how much it takes for you to believe women.

Was going to post these past few days was really illuminating. All it took was a single message from him effectively saying "it wasn't as bad as it seems" for fans and skeptics to immediately let him off the hook.

I get the idea of wanting to see both sides but 9 times out of 10 its apparent that people who say that is really just looking for the barest of assurance to be able to dismiss the accusation.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
User Banned (1 Month): Downplaying and concern trolling regarding sexual assault across a series of posts
Maybe this is the wrong thread for it, but how is this sexual harassment? Isn't that specifically a workplace law between employees? AFAIK it's not a regular criminal offense to the general population
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,034
Orlando, FL
Maybe this is the wrong thread for it, but how is this sexual harassment? Isn't that specifically a workplace law between employees? AFAIK it's not a regular criminal offense to the general population
There are a lot of things that makes you a shitty person that are not illegal.

Has anyone in this thread is even brought up criminal charges? This isn't the Completionist situation where there is a large possibility of fraud.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,567
There is zero chance of any legal ramifications happening here obviously, maybe outside of restraining order. That isn't in anyway part of Emile being gross and this situation.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,483
Maybe this is the wrong thread for it, but how is this sexual harassment? Isn't that specifically a workplace law between employees? AFAIK it's not a regular criminal offense to the general population

Hitting up someone to talk about shoes and feet when you clearly have a fetish for that stuff when it makes people uncomfortable (because they're not consenting) is sexual harassment. His fetishism is an unwanted sexual advance regardless of him saying it can't be because it can only be when it's with his girlfriend or that it's a "hobby" he has.

It doesn't have to be a crime to be harassment. Nobody is saying he should be going to jail by trying to erotic roleplay with women who didn't give him permission to do that. The issue here is he imposes his fetish onto women without their consent, he's done this to multiple women, and he still refuses to admit precisely what he's done. People he's upset aren't even wishing the worst for him, which makes his non-apology tremendously frustrating.


View: https://twitter.com/antdude92/status/1750246896621560175

Is this a crime? No, he's crossing boundaries. He will not take responsibility for it. That's the problem. I think the real problem is he has a huge fetish about sneakers and feet and he can't admit that as the reason he's made many people incredibly uncomfortable around him because he fixates on it.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
Hitting up someone to talk about shoes and feet when you clearly have a fetish for that stuff when it makes people uncomfortable (because they're not consenting) is sexual harassment. His fetishism is an unwanted sexual advance regardless of him saying it can't be because it can only be when it's with his girlfriend or that it's a "hobby" he has.

It doesn't have to be a crime to be harassment. Nobody is saying he should be going to jail by trying to erotic roleplay with women who didn't give him permission to do that. The issue here is he imposes his fetish onto women without their consent, he's done this to multiple women, and he still refuses to admit precisely what he's done. People he's upset aren't even wishing the worst for him, which makes his non-apology tremendously frustrating.


View: https://twitter.com/antdude92/status/1750246896621560175

Is this a crime? No, he's crossing boundaries. He will not take responsibility for it. That's the problem. I think the real problem is he has a huge fetish about sneakers and feet and he can't admit that as the reason he's made many people incredibly uncomfortable around him because he fixates on it.


AFAIK sexual harassment legally is a workplace law, it's not a general criminal code, so if these actions happened in the workplace it's grounds for a civil case (but still not criminal), but since these are just conversations between friends it's not related to sexual harassment as a legal stand point, although maybe they consider each other co-workers? Dunno about that part
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,483
AFAIK sexual harassment legally is a workplace law, it's not a general criminal code, so if these actions happened in the workplace it's grounds for a civil case (but still not criminal), but since these are just conversations between friends it's not related to sexual harassment as a legal stand point, although maybe they consider each other co-workers? Dunno about that part

Correct, but I don't believe much can be done in the world of streamers and content creators unless the platform they're on bans them. It's a very "individual" issue. There's no boss or HR spokesperson for the company to report this to.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,841
AFAIK sexual harassment legally is a workplace law, it's not a general criminal code, so if these actions happened in the workplace it's grounds for a civil case (but still not criminal), but since these are just conversations between friends it's not related to sexual harassment as a legal stand point, although maybe they consider each other co-workers? Dunno about that part
Sexual harassment can happen outside of the workplace.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
96,009
here
dunno why you're trying to get into the weeds of what is legally sexual harassment, especially in a grey area like content creators/influencers

it's pretty clearly sexual harassment
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
I will say since this isn't like a criminal action and just a generally frowned upon series of social actions, I personally draw the line at when you talk to someone sexually and they communicate they don't like that, and you do it anyways (which it seems like this person did that so I do think he did ethically bad actions here). I guess where I feel uncomfortable with reading this thread is a few things:

- I don't think foot fetishes or benign kinks in general are bad or creepy and it's fine to discuss them with other adults up until they say to not talk about them (imo). I don't like kink shaming in general or just the weird general sex negative tone on social media

- I am a rape survivor and the way people talk about these significantly less bad actions (both for this person and others) is with such an alarmist tone that, to me, cheapens when people are actually physically harmed. I get this is an ethically bad action but it's not a crime and no one was harmed. It should not be treated with the same weight on social media as canceling for serious crimes, this is a forgivable offense if they change their behavior imo (which remains to be seen)
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,841
- I am a rape survivor and the way people talk about these significantly less bad actions (both for this person and others) is with such an alarmist tone that, to me, cheapens when people are actually physically harmed. I get this is an ethically bad action but it's not a crime and no one was harmed. It should not be treated with the same weight on social media as canceling for serious crimes, this is a forgivable offense if they change their behavior imo (which remains to be seen)
Sorry but this is a horrible stance to take. It's not a competition and sexual harassment should be shunned entirely even if it's not physical harm.

And someone was harmed.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,161
Again, part of the problem with looking at this from a legalistic perspective is that it's obfuscated by occurring through the channel of normal social behaviour.

If you make the question into "is Chuggaaconroy criminally liable", than you have to use the standards of criminal liability where you have to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and if you have to adhere to that standard you run into the problem that that's just really not something you can do with any effectiveness when evaluating a conversation. Consent is invisible and intangible, it can change as the conversation does. People don't usually keep a record of whether or not they consent to every conversation they have and they don't keep records of when they recinded their consent as the conversation went on.

But whether or not Chuggaaconroy was never an explicit element of the accusation. Part of the idea of believing women is that when you get a bunch of them saying "hey this guy has been repeatedly violating our and other people's consent for years", you take it that they're actually putting their neck out to describe their consent being violated rather than trying to then dust for fingerprints to see if you can prove it.
 
Last edited:

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,767
No one is shaming his kink either. They're shaming using his hobby as an avenue to force women to engage with his kink with him.
 

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
Again, part of the problem with looking at this from a legalistic perspective is that it's obfuscated by occurring through the channel of normal social behaviour.

If you make the question into "is Chuggaaconroy criminally liable", than you have to use the standards of criminal liability where you have to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and if you have to adhere to that standard you run into the problem that that's just really not something you can do with any effectiveness when evaluating a conversation. Consent is invisible and intangible, it can change as the conversation does. People don't usually keep a record of whether or not they consent to every conversation they have.

Part of the idea of believing women is that when you get a bunch of them saying "hey this guy has been repeatedly violating our and other people's consent for years", you take it that they're actually putting their neck out to describe their consent being violated rather than trying to then dust for fingerprints to see if you can prove it.

I do believe the women here, I do think he did something ethically bad here. I'm just saying, and this is highly emotional for me to talk about so I'm probably gonna leave this thread after before I trigger myself, I just don't like how intense people talk about kinda-sorta crimes compared to clear cut serious crimes in regards to sexual crimes. I feel diminished myself and like no one would believe me if I actually told my story on social media because everyone used the cancel mechanisms for gray area crimes
 

Nich

Member
Oct 26, 2017
106
I do believe the women here, I do think he did something ethically bad here. I'm just saying, and this is highly emotional for me to talk about so I'm probably gonna leave this thread after before I trigger myself, I just don't like how intense people talk about kinda-sorta crimes compared to clear cut serious crimes in regards to sexual crimes. I feel diminished myself and like no one would believe me if I actually told my story on social media because everyone used the cancel mechanisms for gray area crimes

I think if you're coming into a thread about a situation between two people, and your reaction is "but what about me?" then I agree it might be best to leave the thread for your own mental health.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,166
Canada
I will say since this isn't like a criminal action and just a generally frowned upon series of social actions, I personally draw the line at when you talk to someone sexually and they communicate they don't like that, and you do it anyways (which it seems like this person did that so I do think he did ethically bad actions here). I guess where I feel uncomfortable with reading this thread is a few things:

- I don't think foot fetishes or benign kinks in general are bad or creepy and it's fine to discuss them with other adults up until they say to not talk about them (imo). I don't like kink shaming in general or just the weird general sex negative tone on social media

- I am a rape survivor and the way people talk about these significantly less bad actions (both for this person and others) is with such an alarmist tone that, to me, cheapens when people are actually physically harmed. I get this is an ethically bad action but it's not a crime and no one was harmed. It should not be treated with the same weight on social media as canceling for serious crimes, this is a forgivable offense if they change their behavior imo (which remains to be seen)


Like... Sure. I'll say I'm grateful something significantly more serious didn't seem to have happened here (too many stories from survivors with popular online assholes absolutely goes well beyond sexual harassment and into full-blown repeated sexual assault, and it's devastating as opposed to this which mostly makes me very grossed out). So yeah I see how judging the severity of one type of incident over another, I "get it" –– but this isn't really helpful to anyone either.

Chuggaconroy was making MANY people uncomfortable and over a long period of time. This is pretty damn bad. Can you imagine knowing so many people that equally will NOT vouch for you or your character? Even people he was closely affilliated and personally knew for years! Why do you have to message someone 20 times to get the hint? Send gifts they never asked for? Where does the bar stop for attention you don't want? It's an awful truth that sometimes all the presents in the world won't make you interested in someone over a arbitrary "click", heh. Why is he behaving this way? And why do we care? Because he plays games on YouTube well? At the end of the day: Who cares. He's been an ass offline, yet he's still perceived well because he's popular! :/

I think another problem is we're not actually "strict" against people being "just creeps" (daresay we want them to take it to those severe levels before judging "fairly"), we don't really condemn harassment as much, and sadly that still means the message of its inappropriateness and detrimental effect (especially on mental health, ones perceived well-being, and personal safety) doesn't get through enough. I mean, even now, Emily had to deal with strangers automatically taking Emile's (Chugga's) side over hers (and there's rarely a good viral reaction to these things that doesn't pile against victims).

There's really shouldn't be an "appropriate level of harassment".
 
Last edited:

Melody Shreds

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,786
Terminal Dogma
I guess its worth throwing out there that not only is this not a "minor" thing to do to someone, it can actually be extremely harmful. I say this as someone who has had a much more "major" thing happen to me in the past. That's no reason to try and downplay the severity of this behavior.

Also people trying to defend Chugga by being transphobic as fuck towards Emily is just the icing on the primordial cake like fuck that shit.