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Nioh 2 will be the greatest ARPG ever made.
- Thread starter Cryptosporidium
- Start date
OP
OP
OP
OP
Kusari is still fucking amazing. Plus ninjutsu got a FUCK TON more stuff and since kusari is tied to it well..
Throwing a lightning trap and pulling enemies into it then sweeping them and going for a finisher never got old in 2s beta
To me it felt as if like if they made you have to L cancel normals in Smash or something and made the timing really lenient.
Why does any mechanic work the way it does in a video game? It is a set of rules to govern the action, I don't really see what is so arbitrary about how Nioh chooses to handle a type of game where your actions are governed by a meter, but rewards more proactive players by giving them better recovery. Nioh also happens to have harsher punishes for letting your stamina run out, in a way Souls doesn't.
At that point they could have just gutted the stamina system entirely, at which point it's not really that type of game anyway. And it's not like a weapon durability system at all. The nature of a durability system isn't about expressive play, it's about putting an ammo count on how often you can use this weapon before you need to fix the weapon or replace the weapon.
Ki pulsing and its accompanying systems translate into being able to use more of your resource and thus combine more of your moves. It's a different way of also doing combos, where it's based on a specific resource for all the components as opposed to some of them. If the argument is the game isn't more expressive than say Devil May Cry, then yeah no shit. But there is no argument to be had against the fact that Nioh allows for more expressive play than From Software games.
An empty stamina gauge in Nioh leaves you vulnerable for a lot longer than a few frames, right down to limiting dodges n dashes. Even with its leniancy, isn't a universal ki pulse. If you commit to a longer string, a simple ki pulse doesn't bring it all back. You can do it for each hit, but you run the risk of letting the enemy respond back, your dodge has a pulse mechanic that gives you a nifty dodge, sometimes the dodge isn't the best play in a given situation and you need to block (which gets you no pulse), and the stances all have different attack options and defensive options that on the fly switching for the pulse has merit to the player.
There are plenty of smaller decisions that come up in the system, if you want to argue that the ki pulse in a vaccuum not having enough of a punish on miss, to make it a risk factor, then sure I'll concede that. I don't necessarily think it needs it, as there are plenty of other aspects that govern good ki management anyway.
This has literally nothing to do with what I talked about, but okay. Sure I don't think the games staunchest supporters would argue Nioh doesn't have an enemy variety problem. I'd certainly disagree with the notion that it has poor ones, as I think the ones it has are pretty great and easily stack up to From Software's best ones, but sure Nioh's enemy roster is slacking compared to the raw number of enemies found in Dark Souls 1-3 and Bloodborne.
That said regardless of you seeing the weapons and some of the moves from other enemies, that wouldn't really change the fact that you the player have more of a fleshed out kit and can pair different components together in a way the enemy can't. Seeing the move from other enemies wouldn't devalue its value for more expressive play tho.
I'm with you on that. Dark Souls 4 by From but with the combat depth of Nioh would be a dream formula for me.
There is lot of fast visual feedback in that video from the OP, which isn't the case while playing FromSoftware games and I hope FromSoftware doesn't change that.
Nioh 1/2 can be what it represents and its great for diversity, but I personally never liked Nioh 1 (similarly, don't think I will like Nioh 2 either).
Nioh 1/2 can be what it represents and its great for diversity, but I personally never liked Nioh 1 (similarly, don't think I will like Nioh 2 either).
Maybe it will be, maybe it won't, it doesn't really matter to me. The first Nioh is an excellent game that I enjoyed every bit as much as the Souls series and if the sequel is better, even by a little bit, I'll enjoy the hell out of it.
The argument is if Nioh is meaningfully more expressive than Dark Souls, it's not because you can ki pulse.
If somebody criticizes the ki pulse system, you can't just hand wave it away by saying it's good because it allows you to perform more actions before running out of stamina because there are plenty of ways Team Ninja could've achieved the same result. You're conflating what the mechanic is (press a button at the prescribed time to get a bonus) with what the bonus is (faster stamina regeneration).
Hell, if they really wanted to let you run wild they could even try completely decoupling stamina from attacks and only use it to limit your defensive options. But that would never work, right?
Lol. Yes Nioh's combat is better than Soulsborne but can we grow up and not use terms like "Bloodbored"?
I'm down for some more Nioh. I thought I was getting tired of the Souls formula but i just played through Bloodborne again and now I want more.
Hoping the story presentation is a little less tacky this time. No doubt the combat will be great.
Hoping the story presentation is a little less tacky this time. No doubt the combat will be great.
Not sure about tacky, but I am sure Nioh 1 had the most confusing and opaque story I've ever encountered in gaming in 30 years. As someone with zero knowledge of the source material or setting, the actual plot was raving, confusing gibberish.
Thankfully the fighting was so good!
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Can't be the GOAT if its presentation is anywhere near as godawful as its predecessor's. I've got to give it props for being shitty enough to dissuade me from playing any further. It has a good combat system and all. But after I run through a boring ass area to fight a boring ass boss for the 15th time, only to be killed in one hit by some random wonky hitbox interaction, I don't really care how good the ki pulse feels to use.
Threads like this only make the numerous flaws of the first that much more apparent.
Threads like this only make the numerous flaws of the first that much more apparent.
*shrugs* At that point it's a different game. I think it's perfectly fine to create a system where all your moves are governed by a meter, but a more aggressive player can finesse the use of that meter. Breaking enemy poise, dealing with yokai realm (which impacts stamina regen when not cleansed), allowing you more options, etc.
I don't think I should necessarily have to separate the bonus? The mechanic has value to the player because of the bonus it provides.
Ki pulse is fun to me because it means being very mindful during fights of my stamina, and the state of the enemy. Beyond that it means being mindful of the stance I'm in, and the stance I want to go to. Ki pulse means hit this mark in a timely manner (albeit super lenient) or else you wait even longer for stamina regen.. Ki pulse also introduces decisions, like do I want to cancel my attack and instantly gain back a little stamina so at minimum I'm safe and haven't lose all the stamina I just spent?
Do I want to commit to a combo while I have the opportunity to attack and potentially get hit, but also be able to regenerate almost all the stamina spent, or wait and see if the enemy is still vulnerable after attacking to do another attack at the expense of the stamina spent? Do I want to ki pulse each individual hit or at the end of a longer string, which changes how much stamina I get back now. Do I want to do a super powered dodge instead of Ki pulse? Do I want to block and sacrifice the ki pulsecompletely?
Do I want to switch stances in order to regain more stamina? Which stance do I want to change to, and what is the left over stance that I need to switch through to get the maximum boost? You can duckstep with it, cancel attacks, or do unique switch attacks, it can work as a positioning tool.
Could ki pulse be altered? Sure, you could literally make it about the timing your weapon switches n dodges, and other actions to get the same effect, or add a bit more of a trade off. But I also don't think Ki Pulse is some redundant part of the combat, and it adds a layer to stamina based combat with a lot of microdecisions that add up to be a pretty satisfying system.
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I thought the plot was actually really good but it's actual presentation was so fucking bad. I was mostly able to follow along because I know the history
I haven't played the first Nioh myself. I watched my bf play, and except for combat, the game looked boring to me.
But at that time maybe I expected the game to be a Soulsborne a bit too much, and it didn't have the qualities I love in a Soulsborne game such as great sceneries, exploration, amazing music and boss fights (which Sekiro had, and I absolutely loved Sekiro).
Nioh does its own thing with its deep combat gameplay, loot and mission system that I'm not a fan of. But yeah, it's not Soulsborne, it's different. There are people who prefer it to Soulsborne games, and that's fine!
Maybe Nioh 2 will fix some issues the first one had. I'll keep an eye on it anyway.
But at that time maybe I expected the game to be a Soulsborne a bit too much, and it didn't have the qualities I love in a Soulsborne game such as great sceneries, exploration, amazing music and boss fights (which Sekiro had, and I absolutely loved Sekiro).
Nioh does its own thing with its deep combat gameplay, loot and mission system that I'm not a fan of. But yeah, it's not Soulsborne, it's different. There are people who prefer it to Soulsborne games, and that's fine!
Maybe Nioh 2 will fix some issues the first one had. I'll keep an eye on it anyway.
That's kinda my issue with Nioh.
It's a great game when you come down to the actual combat, probably better than Souls, but the RPG, looting, repeating levels etc. kills it for me.
That's about the only thing Nioh gets right.
it's a shame that the levels and enemy variety don't really give the player room to really use that combat system well. There are only a handful of enemy types and a lot of copy paste levels towards the middle and end of the game.
I honestly can't even remember a single boss fight other than the bat lady in the first few hours.
I found the basic combat in the first game very repetitive and unrewarding, amongst other problems, which wore down my interest by the second area. So unless they've completely rehauled that I remain unconvinced.
Yeah, it all comes down to personal preferences in the end, right?
I hate inventory management, I much prefer the souls way of doing it, where everything (well, almost) is viable and special.
Yep exactly.
Much like how the surge 2 improved in almost every way from the first I hope nioh 2 can too. The level design and boss encounters (forgettable as all hell) in the 1st was piss poor but for me personally it got so much else right.
I've had more fun with Code Vein's character creation than I had with my three (3!) attempted Nioh playthroughs.
Combat is indeed deeper than in any Soulsborne game, but then again I had more fun slogging through the Valley of Defilement than I had at any point playing Nioh. I'll be giving the sequel a wide berth.
As someone with a previous interest in the lives of John Dee, Edward Kelley and Elizabethan history and pop culture level knowledge of Sengoku era Japan, the plot was gibberish to me too.
As a long time lover of ARPG's, character action games and Souls-likes, I love Nioh on it's own merits, think it is well executed overall and feel that it is essential that a game with Nioh's gameplay and mechanics exists. Fine control over your character is never a bad thing and it's nice to have such a robust and complete game in compliment to the Souls-likes. There's no harm in liking one style of game over the other, but I feel like a lot of the criticism of Nioh's mechanics by Souls players misses the point in what Nioh tries to do and who it is for.
I agree with this completely. Complex doesn't necessarily equal better. In fact, the whole evolution of Souls is based on making the combat easier because it's your main tool in a difficult environment. Demon/Dark Souls had the methodical slow and basic combat, Bloodborne gave you a long range tool and made rolling easier, and Sekiro focused on "you can deflect anything".
I really wish the NiOh team ditched the Souls-like elements and focused on presenting the game as a Ninja gaiden spinoff. That way it won't have to market to Souls fans who are not going to enjoy it as much.
I was playing it earlier and realised something with the Ki pulse and stances and it's kind of genius. Without even realising I was doing it I was changing stances in the Ki pulse. I didn't think there would be much point to the stance changes to be honest, I figured it would be something I would do rarely only against certain monster or something. But the way they've set it up its perfect the ki pulse and stances flow into one another and encourage one another, like I said its kind of genius. I can do like low moves into high moves etc, and combo all kinds of moves can flow together as the buttons are close together and easily pressed, it encourages you to use a wide range of moves.
The game feels kind of easy but I am at the beginning. It seems like your much more free-er to experiment(less penalty's to bad build choices), it sort of reminds me of Disgaea a bit the idea is to break the systems and experiment and be overpowered(the Disgaea of ARPGS?).
The game feels kind of easy but I am at the beginning. It seems like your much more free-er to experiment(less penalty's to bad build choices), it sort of reminds me of Disgaea a bit the idea is to break the systems and experiment and be overpowered(the Disgaea of ARPGS?).
Im currently going through Nioh for the first time and yup im fucking hating these menus and excessive loot, its as I feared. Too much fucking text and numbers in my face that I dont care about. The combat is just so good and I actually really like the level design but im appreciating more how easy and fast it was in Diablo 3 (or past diablo games) to look at loot and equip whatever looks better quickly and move on.
Streamline the RPG stuff and you got a master piece here even if im not crazy on the setting, story seems fine.
Streamline the RPG stuff and you got a master piece here even if im not crazy on the setting, story seems fine.
At least you can quickly tell if the item is better than your current loot with the up arrows. Path of Exile is much more of a loot nightmare you have to have a maths degree in that to tell if anything is better than your current loot.
As much as I suck at Nioh, I'm actually better at it than the soulsborne games. I just recently started Nioh for the first time because it was free. I played the demo when it came out and hated it, but decided to give it a second chance anyway. It REALLY clicked with me this time, but unfortunately I got the the first (2nd) boss (on the ship) and just can't beat him. Tried dozens of times and looked at guides, and don't know what I'm doing wrong. I time the same moves the same way people in videos do yet I take damage and the enemies limbs/ball things just clip through them without damaging them. Got frustrated and gave up.
ANYWAY, I may give Nioh 2 a go if there's another demo or if I hear anything about it's difficulty being slightly improved for people like myself.
ANYWAY, I may give Nioh 2 a go if there's another demo or if I hear anything about it's difficulty being slightly improved for people like myself.
I agree. Ninja Gaiden 1+2 were far more enjoyable than Nioh, and so too were Diablo II+III, but for entirely different reasons. They're not chocolate and peanut butter and they don't go together.
So the thing about your first playthrough on Nioh is you can pretty ignore the loot for chunks at a time, and IMO it makes the game way more enjoyable when you do so.
Order the item menus to display by level and just equip any new stuff with way bigger numbers after you clear a level, and just sell practically everything besides your top 5 or so equipment pieces for each category. Exceptions are if you find skills you consider valuable like Kodama Sense or whatever, may wanna keep those around for a while. The game throws more powerful items at you nonstop, so all your gear quickly becomes obsolete, and thus in the first couple playthroughs there's really zero point in caring about it.
I hate the loot stuff, but after realizing just how much you can ignore it, I had a blast with my first playthrough.
I did spend way more time changing the visual appearance of my armor than I would've liked though, lol.
Now when you get to NG++ and beyond, you kinda have to start commiting to dedicated armor builds and at that point IMO it's such a slog that I stopped playing.
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I buy these games on PC so i can use Cheat engine to set my own difficulty if the pot is too hot
