Agreed, and the WHO and every country that succeeded in containing this have stressing this point.
But you have to do be able to do testing for that, and the US still doesn't really test people.
But you have to do be able to do testing for that, and the US still doesn't really test people.
The same way any pandemic goes away. Some people develop immunity to it, it mutates into other forms, and its rate of spread and/or deadliness fizzles until it stops being referred to as an active pandemic.
Or, to put it another way: Influenza A/H1N1 virus did not vanish from the face of the earth when the Spanish flu ended. A/H1N1 strains routinely participate in seasonal influenza outbreaks, and it went on to cause numerous later epidemics, such as the 2009 pandemic.
There are loads of ancient pandemics whose diseases can still kill people. For instance, there are cases and deaths from bubonic plague every year, and there are loads of places where it can be caught from the local wildlife (including much of the western US). The main reason that bubonic plague doesn't seem to ever go epidemic in developed countries is that we're a heck of a lot better at containing it than we were 600 years ago.
Yep, that's a good thing to keep in mind since people like to compare COVID-19 to the flu. Nobody is getting flu tested unless they are sick enough to go to the doctor's office anyway so your confirmed flu cases (aka denominator of your CFR) aren't entirely accurate either. I believe I read that the CDC has models to adjust for that for influenza but not sure if that's entirely true.
we swab for the flu way more liberally than COVID-19. At least at the moment in the US. For example, in the health system I work for you can just call in and say 'I think I have the flu' and the nurse will order a flu swab for you. You just drive to a lab and get it done. South Korea is really on the ball with testing so their numbers are going to be interesting to see play out.
Those are beautiful pictures of the city!Poor South Korea has definitely been hit hard these past couple of weeks. Here in Seoul, it's not nearly as bad as in the south, but I've noticed a significant drop off in pedestrian traffic and restaurants seem a lot less busy. We have a couple of hospitals that have COVID-19 patients in my district, so it's definitely close to home. Overall though, people are still doing what needs to be done to pay their rent.
Here are a few pictures I took the other day.
covid 1 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
url=https://flic.kr/p/2iApWT3][/url]covid 4 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 5 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 6 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 2 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 7 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 3 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 8 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 9 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
waitingdeath by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
virus be damned by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
covid 11 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
quieter by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
stubs by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
stiff by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
Wow. Streets are so clean they look like video game textures.Poor South Korea has definitely been hit hard these past couple of weeks. Here in Seoul, it's not nearly as bad as in the south, but I've noticed a significant drop off in pedestrian traffic and restaurants seem a lot less busy. We have a couple of hospitals that have COVID-19 patients in my district, so it's definitely close to home. Overall though, people are still doing what needs to be done to pay their rent.
Here are a few pictures I took the other day.
url=https://flic.kr/p/2iApWT3][/url]covid 4 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr
Damn! 2 months... :o But that's great news you guys are taking extreme measures to contain it.
Wouldn't surprise me. India will be one of the trouble spots for this virus I believe.
CGTN World Insight with Tian Wei on Twitter
“Heartbreaking but inspiring - said @WHO 's Bruce Aylward about his visit to #Wuhan, where he led an international mission to learn about China's response to the #COVID19 outbreak. https://t.co/hDn7kKnaT3”
twitter.com
This is what WHO see from Wuhan. The people are fighting here.
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I'm not an expert but it's easy to see how that number you came up with does not accurately represent the CFR. The current number of cases in South Korea is rising fast, while the death rate will lag behind because it can take weeks for a patient to die of COVID-19. Look for example at the ratio between deaths and recovered. Also there might be different strains causing some countries to have a higher CFR. Also the healthcare systems differ between countries meaning that some countries have less capacity to deal with an outbreak - look for example at the number of hospital beds per capita; in 2017 this was ~12 per 1000 for South Korea and ~3 per 1000 for the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds.
So far Canada has few known cases and our situation is very under control, but I fear that the mismanagement in the U.S. has already doomed our entire continent to an Italy-like situation.
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Not shutting down international travel until all countries are equally infected will kill untold numbers of people AND cause an global depression. The US testing capacity is so bad that we are flying blind into a thunderstorm. Other countries such as India and the Philippines.
Korea having a fit about the 2 week quarantine Japan implemented on people traveling from there (along with China, Iran and Italy) yet saying nothing about the same measures applied by Australia and threatening to apply trade and travel restrictions on Japan in retaliation is exactly the kind of bullshit that the world doesn't need and another example of politics making this more of a mess than it could've been.
Reminds me of China's outburst about it when it happened to them and their best friends the WHO trying to keep in their good books and backing them up saying it was 'unscientific.' Now China is banning people from Japan, Iran, Korea etc where is the WHO's opinion now?
Reminds me of China's outburst about it when it happened to them and their best friends the WHO trying to keep in their good books and backing them up saying it was 'unscientific.' Now China is banning people from Japan, Iran, Korea etc where is the WHO's opinion now?
There are so many local cities proclaiming states of emergency that im losing track in Washington State.
We were also told to not return to Japan if we travel outside of the country during spring break. I guess they're taking this seriously because of the Olympics.
I think it's kinda sad that we think of these as extreme measures.
This is really just putting the country on holiday schedule more or less (and Japan didn't even fully went that far AFAIK).
Yes, business and people will suffer economically, but the government has enough money to help them through these times. If it gets out of control they'll have to close anyway.
This weekend Vancouver got the Rugby 7s stop, which have not been canceled. So you'll have people from Italy, Japan, Honk Kong and Korea (among other) and a bunch of people from Washington State, together in a sporting event where they love to sing sweet caroline.
I am pretty sure you didn't get the right news. If you checked China didn't ban people. But ask for 14 days quarantine after they arrive. Don't spread rumors! Check the news OK?
It's going to happen anyways with high probably. International travel (not trade BTW) is not that critical to the world economy.
Yesterday China reported 11 cases from Iran import cases.
China never ban people from Iran, Italy Korea or Japan.
If you check the trailer from Japanese director who lives in Nanjing, in the trailer he visited his Japanes colleague who is in 14 days quarantine in Nanjing from Japan to China.
街中で体温検査 「新規感染者ゼロの街」新型コロナ封じ込め徹底する中国・南京を歩く（竹内亮） - エキスパート - Yahoo!ニュース
新型コロナウイルスの感染者が中国全土に広がる中、2月19日〜3月2日まで「12日間連続で新規感染者ゼロ」を実現した都市がある。それが、筆者が住む江蘇省南京市だ。南京市は中国東部に位置する江蘇省の省都で
Beijing report 4 import cases from Italy yesterday, the cases are sent to hospitals for medical care.
Everyone who comes from outbreak area will submit basic information and take 14 days self quarantine . And for people can't pass temperature check or has symptoms, will be sent to hospital to take PCR check. That's what China did.
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Glad you edit it. Because if US gets to a China-like situation then it's too late.
I think this kind of WHO bashing is so counter productive.
The WHO is a very serious and important organization, and its instrumental in our effort as a species to fight those type of global outbreaks. It's mostly professionals who are doing very important and also very dangerous job. It doesn't pick political fights with governments because it's counter productive, and they generally try to avoid dealing with the political level as much as they can, and they certainly don't try to pick fights. Like, the WHO doesn't come to America and talk about how much the health insurance system sucks here, right?
America has been trying to pick fights with the WHO and the UN for a while now, and it has nothing to do with the language they use in their report with China or whatever, it's an old dumb Republican paranoia about GiViNg Up OuR sOvErEiGnTy to the WHO who will put us all in FEMA camps.
It's true that the deaths are going to lag behind but the number of critical cases per total cases is similar to the death rate. I'm assuming the vast majority of deaths are going to come from patients already in critical condition.
And yeah, South Korea has handled this situation as well as any country can be expected to do and their healthcare system and access is eons ahead of those in a lot of other countries. We just have to hope other countries don't reach the tipping point that the Hubei province endured. 😐
My 73 year old dad is going to this. Well, maybe. I think he's getting a bit worried as my mom has had pneumonia twice before.
:(
My dad is going to Palm Springs on Saturday and he's "done with flying" afterwards, I guess he's a bit worried about it. My mom has RA so she takes drugs for it, so I think it concerns him.
Hopefully everyone will cough into their arm at this big rugby thing...! 😩
I hope that all of this media coverage will result in a heightened awareness. Once everyone gets a few beers in to them though.......
Same thing I was thinking. I had to come back through S. Korea right after it exploded there. S. Korea had temp scanners/asking everyone their travel history etc... I get to LAX and not a single question or anything. That was when I knew it was going to explode here.
Lmao, poor guy I work with. He was going to go to Japan, and cancelled because everyone was like PLEASE, and then he decided he was going to go to Vegas.
... I wonder if they will get him to cancel again lol.
And yeah. It's all over the US 😕
I don't know what your experience is but here in Southern California, the average person on the street gives zero shits and acts like you're Alex Jones if you start talking about this virus. I have nurses telling me the whole thing is no big deal.
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You keep saying this every few pages, but the WHO absolutely DOES pick political fights. At the start of this outbreak, they excluded Taiwan from their conversations for being a Chinese territory instead of a sovereign nation. They still count them as a territory of China instead of a sovereign territory. That is absolutely a political move. A few years back, they appointed Robert Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador. Seriously. They have a history of political controversies. They are an arm of the UN. While their cause is generally good, it is extremely simple minded to think that they don't play politics.
I'm in Seattle and anecdotally, I would say people don't act like you're crazy if you talk about it, but at the same time, no one is doing anything about this.
There is still no fever screening in public places and still no plan to designate fever clinics or wards that I'm aware of. Just hope people's primary care physician make a good cool.
I feel like I'm in a pretty low risk group both in term of avoidance and health risk, some I'm not terribly worried about myself, but I'm starting to get kinda concerned about the lack of response around this. This is not some crazy end of the world measures we're talking about here, just really basic stuff.
There is really no down side of taking this shit more seriously.
"And a Mississauga resident who was on a Grand Princess cruise ship that travelled from San Francisco to Mexico between Feb. 11 and Feb. 21, tested positive, and is Peel Region's first case."
A little worried about this one.
Was he in any kind of quarantine before being diagnosed? It's a long time since February 21, was he out there with symptoms?
My cousin, who is a nurse, is on Facebook every day telling people they should be more worried about the flu. It blows my mind.
I don't think it's realistic to expect the WHO to solve Taiwan's status in the UN.
The UN is far from perfect, and the WHO needs to work within its framework, but that constant bashing of the WHO by the US is so counter productive, and it's led by the worst people in American politics.
Seriously, let's not hitch our wagon to that, the WHO is important.
I wouldn't know how to make hand sanitzier from everclear so I can give my neighbors otherwise.
Alberta gets its first case, and British Columbia gets Canada's first case of local transmission.
:format(webp)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2020/03/05/student-covid-19-case-temporarily-shutters-private-vancouver-university/coronavirus.jpg)
www.thestar.com
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fucking hell lol
Now I feel bad for laughing
B.C. sees surge of COVID-19 cases, Alberta confirms its first instance
An Alberta passenger on the Grand Princess cruise ship is Alberta’s first presumptive case of the novel coronavirus. Meanwhile, B.C. health officials said one of their cases involved a woman visiting from Seattle and responded to reports of the theft of hand sanitizer and face masks from...
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fucking hell lol
Now I feel bad for laughing
Even if it is true that WHO doesn't want to pick political fights, that does not mean they haven't become a political tool for the CCP and China hasn't taken advantage of how these organisations functions.
Given China is the epicenter, the last thing WHO wanted to do when trying contain this virus is piss off the Chinese government and see them intentionally mishandle the situation as retaliation. Yes, it's ridiculous that China needs to be coddled in that manner but that's a fight for another day. The most important matter for WHO was to assist with whatever was needed to help stop the spread of this deadly virus, and they needed full cooperation
They are a bunch of doctors and epidemiologists who do important and dangerous work, they are instrumental in the fight against AIDS, malaria, smallpox, polio, you name it. What political goals of China do you think they are advancing?
The GOP has been trying to politicize that shit for years because they fucking hate the UN, and I think it's really stupid.
Well, every international organization is a playground of international politics, and WHO is no exception; that I do agree with.
However, in the case of Taiwan/Republic of China, as you have mentioned, WHO is a specialized agency of UN and has to abide by the international law, including UN resolutions; according to UN resolution 2758, People's Republic of China is the only legitimate representation of China in the UN and the government of Taiwan/Republic of China is not a UN recognized entity. This is not a politic matter per se, but rather a matter of regulatory compliance.
I am not the expert of the One China topic and this is way out of topic for this thread, so I will stop now. What I am trying to say is, WHO is a reputable organization and as an entity with no actual authority over countries around the globe it is doing the best it can. The medical community seems to largely agree with and follow its judgment and decisions at this moment as well.
Anyway, apologies for the digression. I know this is a sensitive topic and I am sorry if anyone feels that the course of discussion is unpleasant.
So I have had a nagging cough since December, and have been working with doctors on it (asthma testing, allergy testing, etc.). No fever, bloodwork clean, but when I cough in public, people look at me like they want to murder me.
I was on the bus, coughed 2x and people moved away from my area... I was on a plane on Tuesday from Chicago to Seattle and coughed a bunch and nobody blinked.... weird.
I was on the bus, coughed 2x and people moved away from my area... I was on a plane on Tuesday from Chicago to Seattle and coughed a bunch and nobody blinked.... weird.