Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 26, 2017
5,663
I feel like when people are wondering about the Switch vs Xbox or even PS4. They forget there was a generation where Nintendo had a massive hit console and it still didn't impact the PS3/360 games. Considering the power of the Switch and the architecture I don't see why this would be any different.

Wii had a massive, if not temporary, impact on the industry though causing both Sony and MS to add motion controls to their consoles post Wii launch. Some of its effects can be felt today through VR and Xbox One's botched initial launch with Kinect 2.0.

Nothing wrong with speculating if Switch could garner a similar reaction from MS or Sony or even a new player should it's success continue along this trajectory.
 

Thardin

Member
Jan 7, 2018
926
I feel like when people are wondering about the Switch vs Xbox or even PS4. They forget there was a generation where Nintendo had a massive hit console and it still didn't impact the PS3/360 games. Considering the power of the Switch and the architecture I don't see why this would be any different.

PS Move and Kinect were definitely things and definitely responses to the success of the Wii.

Might even argue that the success of the Wii impacted the initial success of the Xbox One. The inclusion of the Kinect with the Xbox One and the always on features as well as trying to make more of an "all in one" media box as opposed to a pure gaming console definitely hurt the brand (among other decisions Microsoft was making at the time).

Now, I think you're more trying to imply that Nintendo consoles tend to coexist among the other 2 as opposed to cannibalizing their sales and I would say I agree. But the long term implications to Nintendo doing things differently are definitely interesting.
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Eh, that's a very different question though, and one that was not asked.

I think the Switch will certainly reaffirm or suggest to the other mfgs that people want their content available to them whenever they may like to engage with it.
 

Imad issa

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
558
Eh, that's a very different question though, and one that was not asked.

I think the Switch will certainly reaffirm or suggest to the other mfgs that people want their content available to them whenever they may like to engage with it.

You probably can't answer this, but Ill try anyway, did switch have the best January of this generation in terms of hardware sales.
 

slavesnyder

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,127
SlaveSnyder Media Corp.
it will be magnificent to see how microsoft and sony will react to the switch and, even more interesting, labo in their very special, own and adorable way.
move and kinect were highly advanced and sophisticated compared to the wii, but at the same time completely missed the point. so prepare for the upcoming interpretation of hybrid consoles and show-and-tell-gaming that will try to be more of the same and something completely different at the same time.
 

John Wick

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
440
United Kingdom
I mean, the Wii and DS did exactly this. And the Switch is currently tracking ahead of both, and is receiving far better western support than either of them at this stage in their lives.



Well that's a different argument, but still not one I'd agree with. Also the Wii U was ~4.25 years old when the Switch launched.

But you were seriously arguing that the Wii U being such a dud made people thirsty for Nintendo hardware... think about that for a minute.
I said it would have been pretty hard for Nintendo to do any worse than the Wii U. What's so hard to understand? The marketing and messaging were shite for Wii U. Also launching against PS4 and Xbox One made it worse.
Switch is selling to two demographics. Home console owners and handheld evangelists and those who want both. The marketing and message have been spot on and it's not launching against new consoles from the other two. Also the fact three absolutely class games have been released within the first year.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road
I dunno about that, but I could see a "PS4 Portable" type thing in the future after the home box has moved on to whatever they end up calling the PS5. Since we're not doing "generations" anymore and all. Every game could essentially come with a portable version.

Pipe dream, maybe.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,503
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road

More like Sony expands PS Now instead to work on a variety of platforms and improve performance as much as possible. The Switch being a huge success is not going to make Sony go down the portable hand held route when they can just open up and improve a platform they already have that doesn't need massive amounts of R&D and everything that goes with hardware.
 

xabbott

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Florida
Wii had a massive, if not temporary, impact on the industry though causing both Sony and MS to add motion controls to their consoles post Wii launch. Some of its effects can be felt today through VR and Xbox One's botched initial launch with Kinect 2.0.

Nothing wrong with speculating if Switch could garner a similar reaction from MS or Sony or even a new player should it's success continue along this trajectory.
Sorry, I didn't mean it didn't have an impact on the industry. I just meant more of what titles went where. But now I understand your original comment better.

Since MS has no big share of the Japanese market I could see them just working with existing mobile devices to do streaming stuff later on. Sony on the other hand could try portable again.
 

John Wick

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
440
United Kingdom
Someone already forgot the Switch pre-release doomism especially the January 2017 thread where most people were saying that Switch is "DOA" and "Wii U 2.0". Switch selling like it is was not expected at all and that's not how most people were thinking.

If you even tried to imply back then that Switch might have a chance to sell as well as PS4 in its first year people would have eaten you alive.

Lol. As I've stated on another reply Nintendo IMHO were due to release new hardware. The fact that NSW caters for two demographics has greatly helped its cause and with some stellar software mainly BOTW, Oddessey, Mario Kart and Splatoon 2 has seen it sell like hotcakes. I expected it do well. The timing was right and the marketing spot on. I don't know what else I can say.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
If it means I can finally play Bloodborne (since I don't have time to sit down at a stationary console these days) I am all for that.

Apparently the rumour is that the Playstation 5 will come with a split/conjoined controller.

The split controller can be made whole for a normal controller.
Can be split in two to make VR controllers.
And the split is also for a screen you can buy to put between both controllers to make a mini handheld. I'm not sure if that screen will have any sort of power. Or if its just used for remote play.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I said it would have been pretty hard for Nintendo to do any worse than the Wii U. What's so hard to understand? The marketing and messaging were shite for Wii U. Also launching against PS4 and Xbox One made it worse.
Switch is selling to two demographics. Home console owners and handheld evangelists and those who want both. The marketing and message have been spot on and it's not launching against new consoles from the other two. Also the fact three absolutely class games have been released within the first year.

You said the Wii U was an abysmal failure and they couldn't do worse, and therefore the thirst for a Nintendo console was real. The first statement in no way logically leads to the second. You're essentially saying "because nobody bought this Nintendo console, there was a lot of thirst for a Nintendo console"

Your other arguments are fine, since you're acknowledging the actual appeal of the Switch rather than just saying there was general thirst for Nintendo hardware since nobody wanted their hardware. Which is nonsense.
 

Rowsdower

Shinra Employee of The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,909
Canada
Apparently the rumour is that the Playstation 5 will come with a split/conjoined controller.

The split controller can be made whole for a normal controller.
Can be split in two to make VR controllers.
And the split is also for a screen you can buy to put between both controllers to make a mini handheld. I'm not sure if that screen will have any sort of power. Or if its just used for remote play.

Where'd this rumor come from? I mean, that sounds fantastic.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,289
I'm just happy all the systems are doing well. I actually legitimately expected hardware to be slower in January (though I expected good software sales)- is there any indication why hardware was up so much last month? I suppose we can explain Xbox's YoY growth via the One X, but what about Nintendo and PlayStation?

Imo there are three factors driving the growth we see this month.

1. January had an extra week. Granted it doesn't account for the amount of increase we see across the board here but it is absolutely a factor.

2. We have a very succesful piece of new HW that is replacing a very poorly performing piece of HW (WiiU—> Switch)

3. We have a slate of new SW with much broader market appeal than what was seen last January. Dragon ball as a brand is very mainstream in the US and the game itself as a 2D fighter is much more inline with US consumer taste. MHW similarly is a game that appeals to the broader US market in that it is an online connected coop game which ch is a game type that has a proven track record of high appeal and sales in the US market. Both of these games are exceptions to the general rules of appeal and succes for Japanese games in the US and, as such, helped to generate much more revenue.

That being said this growth is beyond most anyone's expectations. Especially considering the pricing bump on the XB.
 

imt558

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
599
What do you mean? It was Microsoft's best January and the margin between the three with pretty tight. I think that gives us a lot of information. Edit: Actually ignore the best January bit. I believe I am mistaken on that. I guess what one would look at in regards to PUBG would be how well it sold considering its only on the Xbox. (For NPD)

Best January or not, saying that PUBG had and effect on Xbone sales is really an exaggeration imo. If PUBG had some sales effect, Xbone would be at least 2nd, but it ended 3rd. Well, will see what will happen in February with price lowered PUBG bundles.
 
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v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
Great to see this industry on fire across the globe.

Also little note, great to see Xbox in a healthy state.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Eh, that's a very different question though, and one that was not asked.

I think the Switch will certainly reaffirm or suggest to the other mfgs that people want their content available to them whenever they may like to engage with it.
Well ms was already working towards that for a decade.

They kept making promised about gaming on the cloud and at best fell way short of Amazon providing servers for developers.

But the last 2 years they've shown way more progress to create an xbox anywhere ecosystem.

Their vision of gaming involves streaming but will they commit to spending the money needed to serve atleast 2 continents? They might get cold feet.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,289
Nintendo didn't have new hardware to sell last January? That doesn't explain the 3DS growth I guess... maybe the whole Nintendo brand is just healthier now than it was a year ago?

3DS growth is almost entirely price driven imo.cerainly the nostalgia stirred up by Pokémon Go is continuing to help as well especially at the prices the HW is now
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,289
MatPiscatella any chance we could get a digital revenue chart? One that would include non game purchases like MTX and season passes. I think it'd be pretty eye opening for a lot of people with regard to what titles end up ranking on a monthly basis and help to show what games are actually evergreen GAAS style releases.
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,040
UK
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road

Why? It's almost like the PS4 and Xbox One -- two primarily stationary consoles -- haven't sold an estimated 100 million combined.

I know people love the Switch and that's great, but it's not like the market for powerful, stationary home consoles has evaporated over the past 12 months.
 

John Wick

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
440
United Kingdom
You said the Wii U was an abysmal failure and they couldn't do worse, and therefore the thirst for a Nintendo console was real. The first statement in no way logically leads to the second. You're essentially saying "because nobody bought this Nintendo console, there was a lot of thirst for a Nintendo console"

Your other arguments are fine, since you're acknowledging the actual appeal of the Switch rather than just saying there was general thirst for Nintendo hardware since nobody wanted their hardware. Which is nonsense.

I should have elaborated a bit more on my point that Nintendo couldn't do worse than the Wii U. Hell even the OG Xbox sold better than Wii U. I think companies learn from their mistakes. Sony learned from PS3 and MS form X1. So Nintendo I expected to do much better and I was proven right.
The thirst is real is just a statement made to poke fun at how people are reacting. But I do belive Nintendo fans were waiting expectantly for a new Nintendo console. Maybe some of those fans were a bit tired of their ageing 3DS and Wii U? It's a combination of factors which have aligned for Nintendo. Nintendo should be selling these numbers. It's what I expect from them. I feel sorry for the Wii U it had some great games and I mainly played on the pad.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I should have elaborated a bit more on my point that Nintendo couldn't do worse than the Wii U. Hell even the OG Xbox sold better than Wii U. I think companies learn from their mistakes. Sony learned from PS3 and MS form X1. So Nintendo I expected to do much better and I was proven right.
The thirst is real is just a statement made to poke fun at how people are reacting. But I do belive Nintendo fans were waiting expectantly for a new Nintendo console. Maybe some of those fans were a bit tired of their ageing 3DS and Wii U? It's a combination of factors which have aligned for Nintendo. Nintendo should be selling these numbers. It's what I expect from them. I feel sorry for the Wii U it had some great games and I mainly played on the pad.

Ah okay that elaboration helped, yeah. I still kinda disagree, I don't think there was any sort of pent up demand, at least on a large scale. I think it's more just that the concept and the software were extremely appealing and the software was spaced out very well over the first year.

I definitely was surprised by the level of success it achieved and honestly I'd question anyone who claims to have thought it would become the fastest selling console ever in its first 12 months, but yeah I was expecting it to be successful in general.
 

Kingpin722

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,028
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road
Only way Sony goes portable again is if they actually make a hybrid. I think supporting 2 devices is out of the question at this point for PlayStation or anyone for that matter. But I do agree with your prediction, I just believe Sony and MS will wait and see how a more capable version of the Switch does before they consider it. In creating the Switch, I think Nintendo has made a barrier of entry for anyone who wants to compete directly with it. Sony and MS will most likely have to give up making stationary consoles and go the hybrid route. Making a Vita 2 or Mini Xbox that compliment the main console will be a waste of money.
 
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Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Only way Sony goes portable again is if they actually make a hybrid.
Unfortunately, I think Sony and Microsoft have boxed themselves in to the Super-Ultra-HDR-4K-Bleeding-Tech market that there's no way they can make a hybrid any time soon. Short of a miracle breakthrough in mobile tech, any hybrid they can develop will have inferior specs than their current systems, and their fanbases will turn on them as a result. Nintendo can get away with it only because they dropped out of the technology arms race a decade ago; Sony and Microsoft, in contrast, have been so gung-ho to win the battle for the living room that they're now unable to get out of it without a lot of backlash.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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The only way MS and Sony even consider making a hybrid is if Switch starts eating into their share of the market in a significant way. And since that doesn't appear to be happening, I don't see a hybrid device from either manufacturer.

Also, I cannot begin to imagine how the core PS and XB fan would react to the spec unveiling of the PS5 and NeXtBox if they went in this direction.
 

Horror

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
1,997
Unfortunately, I think Sony and Microsoft have boxed themselves in to the Super-Ultra-HDR-4K-Bleeding-Tech market that there's no way they can make a hybrid any time soon. Short of a miracle breakthrough in mobile tech, any hybrid they can develop will have inferior specs than their current systems, and their fanbases will turn on them as a result. Nintendo can get away with it only because they dropped out of the technology arms race a decade ago; Sony and Microsoft, in contrast, have been so gung-ho to win the battle for the living room that they're now unable to get out of it without a lot of backlash.

Pretty much.

None of the companies can strongly support two separate platforms and ecosystems, as we've seen from Nintendo and Sony. If Sony were to go hybrid, they'd have to go all in to make it an attractive console and effectively cede the high-end market to Microsoft. That would be a huge mistake as it'd alienate customers and some major third party support. And Microsoft learned its lesson from Kinect not to chase Nintendo's fortunes and forfeit the arms race, so no hybrid from them either.
 

Fafalada

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Oct 27, 2017
3,098
Sony and MS will most likely have to give up making stationary consoles and go the hybrid route.
Hybrids aren't a given if the approach continues to require making 2 versions of each game like on the Switch - with legacy devices in the same ecosystem(at least for MS, likely Sony as well) and pro iterations multiplying that count, that just isn't a sustainable approach long term.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road
As much as I want a new portable PS console, I don't think it's the way that the Switch sells that will make them release such a product. To me, we will only see one such console if Sony envisions a product that brings value to players and can feature compelling content without relying on watered-down versions of their franchises. The one thing they could "learn" from the Switch is that there is value in a shared library between console and handheld, IMO.
Pretty much.

None of the companies can strongly support two separate platforms and ecosystems, as we've seen from Nintendo and Sony. If Sony were to go hybrid, they'd have to go all in to make it an attractive console and effectively cede the high-end market to Microsoft. That would be a huge mistake as it'd alienate customers and some major third party support. And Microsoft learned its lesson from Kinect not to chase Nintendo's fortunes and forfeit the arms race, so no hybrid from them either.
I don't think they need to make a hybrid machine, simply make a handheld that can play the same games, albeit adjusted to the handheld's specs. They don't need to have a portable 4K machine necessarily, IMO.
 

Horror

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
1,997
I don't think they need to make a hybrid machine, simply make a handheld that can play the same games, albeit adjusted to the handheld's specs. They don't need to have a portable 4K machine necessarily, IMO.

Downports aren't going to sell a system. As much as people harp about the Switch having some of them, the system's main workhorses are either exclusives or games not a lot have played because they were on an unpopular console.
 

Prine

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Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I think Switch will force Sony and MS to re-examine mobility going forward. I could see another Vita down the road
I dont think so, consoles still vastly outsell switch, and the industry is moving towards rich online services with potential for experiences with recurring revenue delivered to your living room, thats a major, lucrative part of the pie they'll continue to prioritise.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
8,151
California
There is no "ripple effect" of Switch success. It's having no discernible impact at all on the sales curves of either PS4 or Xone. There is absolutely zero evidence in the data that the Switch is acting as a direct competitor to these other boxes.

Oh, and generations as they've been known in the past are a thing of the past.

Yeah, generations have gone the way of the dodo. People expecting generations are going to be hurt. They will upgrades like the iPhone. It makes more sense to do it that way imo.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
My big hope is UFC's lacklustre sales push EA back to Fight Night.

There are licensing issues, but there are enough fighters out there to populate the roster. For example Anthony Joshua's team, at this stage in his career, would see greater value in him being a cover star, rather than demanding millions and not being part of said title.

And of course character creators can fill the missing stars.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Downports aren't going to sell a system. As much as people harp about the Switch having some of them, the system's main workhorses are either exclusives or games not a lot have played because they were on an unpopular console.
I'm not saying it should feature downports, I'm saying it should have the same library. Like, come the time the next PS console is unveiled, it is launched in both console and handheld flavors, but the library is the same (with BC, too, maybe the portable one can have BC for Vita and PSP games). I mean, I don't know if it would be wise to launch a PS5 alongside a PS5 Portable, but I would sure enjoy it and it looks to me as the logical next step for cross-buy content.
 

Tratorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
709
The only portable I could see having some success for Sony in the next few years would be as a last PS4 revision, if they could even make that happen somehow. Literally PlayStation 4 Portable.
Can play all PS4 games (digital) and has an TV-out + complete Controller Support, but this time official and not as lacklustre as with the PSP. But I doubt that would be possible even in two years since chips used in mobiles are still very different to what is in PS4, so it wouldn't just be a case of same "horsepower".

But since people already have an amazing digital PS4 library and it could reach a level of portable gaming that isn't offered by the switch, I could see something like this being successful enough and would help to further enhance PS4 software sales before it finally completely dies.
 

choodi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,589
Australia
Unfortunately, I think Sony and Microsoft have boxed themselves in to the Super-Ultra-HDR-4K-Bleeding-Tech market that there's no way they can make a hybrid any time soon. Short of a miracle breakthrough in mobile tech, any hybrid they can develop will have inferior specs than their current systems, and their fanbases will turn on them as a result. Nintendo can get away with it only because they dropped out of the technology arms race a decade ago; Sony and Microsoft, in contrast, have been so gung-ho to win the battle for the living room that they're now unable to get out of it without a lot of backlash.

This is spot on. Nintendo, crazy as they are, have somehow managed to carve out a significant chunk of the market without directly competing with Sony and MS and at the same time not allowing either company the opportunity to actually combat their unique selling point.

Sony and MS can't abandon the bleeding edge, it's a death knell for them. Nintendo just need to be careful that they keep their hardware close enough performance wise that some ports are possible.