• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
Right! It's crazy to me when people say they don't like Xenoblade 2, I just assume they don't have a lot of time :P
I love Xenoblade 2.

But that game has a ton of stuff that could turn people off. Chapter 4 is downright awful, if you were still on the fence by then, that chapter could turn you off from the game. Plus other issues like Tutorials not being available to see again. Field skills being a rather poor implementation. VA being iffy for some (I liked it, but it was rough in some early parts). Core Crystals summoning.

Plus this was Launch day when he played it. It's much better in some areas now with patches. But I'm not surprise when someone doesn't like Xenoblade 2.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,339
Well that's just false. DQ and SMT are notoriously grindy.

Though, I suppose it depends which of the games you've played and how you approach them.

They are only called "grindy" by people from a position of ignorance. Deciding you MUST level up until you can win all fights by only choosing the attack command does not make a game grindy.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,114
Is XB2 as good as XB? I enjoyed XB but Number 2 just never got my attention.

I dunno, in my opinion it's just different. Some better things, some worse things. XB2 seemed way more "anime" to put it bluntly. I know XB1 was pretty anime tropey to begin with but 2 seemed to turn that up to 11, so that's one thing I didn't quite like. The character designs were really hit or miss and seemed all over the place in general. The gacha mechanics kinda sucked. But overall the battle system felt better to me, I liked not having to mess around so ridiculously much with equipment like XB1, and the environments were equally or just as great in 2. I'd give 2 the edge in music too.

I never actually finished the first one, mostly due to outside circumstances, but I did finish 2. I got pretty far in 1, though, like 70 horus in. I Need to play it again at some point, but I'm hoping for a Switch port or something.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,571
They are only called "grindy" by people in a position of ignorance. Deciding you MUST level up until you can win all fights by only choosing the attack command does not make a game grindy.

When I got to Dhoulmagus in Dragon Quest VIII, I literally could not beat him without grinding 12 levels for Angelo because he had yet to learn Alheal. I never finished the game because the grinding was too much for me to take.
 

Phonzo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,820
I dunno, in my opinion it's just different. Some better things, some worse things. XB2 seemed way more "anime" to put it bluntly. I know XB1 was pretty anime tropey to begin with but 2 seemed to turn that up to 11, so that's one thing I didn't quite like. The character designs were really hit or miss and seemed all over the place in general. The gacha mechanics kinda sucked. But overall the battle system felt better to me, I liked not having to mess around so ridiculously much with equipment like XB1, and the environments were equally or just as great in 2. I'd give 2 the edge in music too.

I never actually finished the first one, mostly due to outside circumstances, but I did finish 2. I got pretty far in 1, though, like 70 horus in. I Need to play it again at some point, but I'm hoping for a Switch port or something.
Yea, most of the reason you explained is why i dont think it appealed to me.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
They are only called "grindy" by people in a position of ignorance. Deciding you MUST level up until you can win all fights by only choosing the attack command does not make a game grindy.
Leveling's got nothing to do with it.

What happens if I decide to get every Job in DQ6 or all summons/demons/fusions in SMT?

Is it NEEDED? No, but it is an option. Its not grindy if all your goal is to get to the end, it IS, if your goal us to do more.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
Is XB2 as good as XB? I enjoyed XB but Number 2 just never got my attention.
Is different, it's more flawed and it hasn't the "classic feel" from the first game, but it's more charming IMO.

If you can tolerate anime tropes and some QoL problems, the game offers better combat than the first game, far more developed character interactions and one of the best OST from the last years.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
When I got to Dhoulmagus in Dragon Quest VIII, I literally could not beat him without grinding 12 levels for Angelo because he had yet to learn Alheal. I never finished the game because the grinding was too much for me to take.
tumblr_ogeqg6l4kS1ui4lyeo1_400.gif
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
Is XB2 as good as XB? I enjoyed XB but Number 2 just never got my attention.
I found the Gameplay much better in XC 2.
Story was better in XC 1
Characters are better in XC 2 (at least the main Cast)
Exploration is about the same. (Good in both)
Music is better in XC 2

Overall I say XC 2 is better. And it mainly came down to the gameplay for me.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
Is different, it's more flawed and it hasn't the "classic feel" from the first game, but it's more charming IMO.

If you can tolerate anime tropes and some QoL problems, the game offers better combat than the first game, far more developed character interactions and one of the best OST from the last years.

Im actually replaying XBC right now, and its honestly jarring how different XBC2 is. Like, they dont even feel like they're in the same genre, and certainly not by the same studio.

Then again, Xenogears to Xenosaga to Xenoblade were all massive departures too.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,339
Leveling's got nothing to do with it.

What happens if I decide to get every Job in DQ6 or all summons/demons/fusions in SMT?

Is it NEEDED? No, but it is an option. Its not grindy if all your goal is to get to the end, it IS, if your goal us to do more.

I don't think that you understand the words that you are using.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
found the Gameplay much better in XC 2.
Story was better in XC 1
Characters are better in XC 2 (at least the main Cast)
Exploration is about the same. (Good in both)
Music is better in XC 2

Overall I say XC 2 is better. And it mainly came down to the gameplay for me.
I agree.

The problem with Xc2 is mostly QoL issues and bad decisions (menus that are hard to navigate, some really sexualized female designs...), exactly what happened with XcX. The game offers lots of hours of exploration and side content, some of them is even goof (Blade quests), so it's the kind of game that delivers a lot if you like the gameplay and can tolerate the flaws.
 

tiebreaker

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,213
Is XB2 as good as XB? I enjoyed XB but Number 2 just never got my attention.

XB2 has better gameplay, even then it's debateable because of the gacha system and QoL issues.
Everything else I prefer the first one. Moreso because of its novelty at the time.

I played DQ VIII just recently. Yep, you had to grind that one.
 

JCADX

Member
Oct 29, 2017
301
*facepalm* out of all the criticisms...

You were obviously not into old school dragon warrior / final fantasy type games. We're not talking about live Dungeons and Dragons intra-party alignment conflicts here. It's not that kinda game. OT is party-based traditional jrpg. There's not a western karma system at play, and jrpgs have never been like that.

I play a lot of JRPG to know what i´ m saying here. I´m not asking for a karma system, decision o infinite scenarios for each particular party composition. I´m asking that if they present me certain situations in the story, that they simply respect its coherence. One of the reasons to form a party in any rpg is to have a (to some degree) believable reason that can sustain that party, which is absent here. Also, it is obvious to think that a party will influence the situations happening in the story to some degree, and here, except the protagonist of a certain plot, everyone else is absent. That can create narrative problems and holes that can only be prevented with something called "suspension of disbelief".

It´s usual in JRPGs to see those kind of situations. Take the typical "you can free roam while a meteorite/giant enemy/apocalypse menaces the world", which you can accept to some degree. But in the Octopath situation, what happens is that the game asks you to accept 8 plots designed for characters working alone while in a party.

It´s difficult to enter in particular examples without spoiling Octopath story, but basically the problem is:

1) Characters travelling in a party for no particular plot reason, without common goals, and even with conflicting ideals.
2) Zero influence of that party in the story, creating some coherence conflicts (situations that are logical alone but not travelling with 8 people).

If they didn´t want to design an experience to justify 1), then maybe the better choice would have been 8 totally independent stories. If not, 2) could have been solved easily, creating to plot variants: one with the character alone, and another with a party. But basing the game story in the premise "hey, forget about the other seven while doing a particular character chapter even if they are travelling with you and could help to solve some situations" its not really solid.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
Im actually replaying XBC right now, and its honestly jarring how different XBC2 is. Like, they dont even feel like they're in the same genre, and certainly not by the same studio.
Which is really good.

Xc1, Xc2 and XcX offer different experiences, even if the 3 games have a big focus on exploration and the same combat basics.
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
Yup. Jason knows what he's doing lol. Certain language and diction are purposeful choices. I listen to just about every episode of Kotaku Splitscreen, and I know you love the attention Jason! If you have listened to him for long enough, then you realize that some of it is purposely troll-y. Innocent, but that it elicits a certain negative reaction that he finds endearing, even if he is dismissive of it.

It's all in good fun.
Yeah, lol. I also listen to Splitscreen. He sounds downright cuddly on there by comparison. That said, a lot of people get in a blind rage over the critical bits. They disregard the fact that there's a good amount of praise in his review as well!
 

tadale

Member
Oct 25, 2017
692
Atlanta
Yup. Despicable. Still never managed to beat him. Once he gets to his second form and starts spamming full-party attack spells my Angelo's single-target healing just couldn't keep up.

I had the exact same problem, but I don't think I had as many levels to grind out. I did it, finished that fight, and had a great time with the rest of the game. My first playthrough was on 3DS; I find portable RPGs much more tolerable for grinding. You can do a little bit here and there while you're watching something on TV.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,531
I see it as a sign that you are still devoting time and energy towards the game beyond Reveal->E3->News->Hype->-Previews->Reviews->Release

I guess its just suspect when familiar faces vanish after reviews.

That's strange, I don't venture into OT's much and probably won't for this one, if anything I may go in there just to compliment the OP, but I am definitely getting this. That happens with a lot of the games I play actually.
 

Apollo

Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,121
Inactive party members not getting any EXP is the cardinal sin of RPGs for me, so that's extremely disappointing. Especially with 8 party members. I'm lucky that I've got a few shows to catch up on which will help mitigate the pain of grinding; because I'm otherwise quite looking forward to this.

I really liked Xenoblade 2 overall but I can definitely see a lot of pieces of that game rubbing people the wrong way.

Yeah lol. XB2 is one of my favorite RPGs I've played in years, but that's in spite of the many many things I find that it does poorly. I'm honestly amazed I love it so much.
 

PCPace

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,841
Alabama
Right! It's crazy to me when people say they don't like Xenoblade 2, I just assume they don't have a lot of time :P
I didn't like Xenoblade 2 very much until they released the patch to turn off enemy hostility and have auto combat. That made it so much more pleasant to play and I've gone from about 30 hours and not played since January, to about 130 hours since that patch
 

DTC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,590
Reposting this from the OT thread:

Huge potential postgame spoiler:

The title of what seems to be the final boss track is also the title of a multi-part quest you can start in the demo.

It's a Bolderfall quest where a knight is trying to get the attention of a purple haired woman. When you beat up the knight, the woman says (paraphrasing, I might have missed some details too) "You're not the man I'm looking for... I need the blood of a golden haired man, and when I get it, I will change the world."
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,571
I had the exact same problem, but I don't think I had as many levels to grind out. I did it, finished that fight, and had a great time with the rest of the game. My first playthrough was on 3DS; I find portable RPGs much more tolerable for grinding. You can do a little bit here and there while you're watching something on TV.

I imagine playing it on a portable system would lessen the grind to a small degree since I could play it while doing something else, yeah. Doing it on PS2 was just...an absolute chore.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
I didn't Xenoblade 2 very much until they released the patch to turn off event hostility and have auto combat. That made it so much more pleasant to play and I've gone from about 30 hours and not played since January, to about 130 hours since that patch

Yeah, I stopped playing around Chapter 6 or so because of QoL stuff, but from what Uve heard, most of my gripes have since been addressed. I should go back, but I also know there's even more patches coming so...

Ill finish it eventually.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,742
Inactive party members not getting any EXP is the cardinal sin of RPGs for me, so that's extremely disappointing. Especially with 8 party members. I'm lucky that I've got a few shows to catch up on which will help mitigate the pain of grinding; because I'm otherwise quite looking forward to this
Whoa. Don't go spreading this sacrilege in any Pokémon thread lol. I totally agree with you though!
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,061
When I got to Dhoulmagus in Dragon Quest VIII, I literally could not beat him without grinding 12 levels for Angelo because he had yet to learn Alheal. I never finished the game because the grinding was too much for me to take.

I mean, I remember having to level up Angelo a level or two, but not no 12 levels. How did you manage the even have Angelo that far behind

Also, a monster team absolutely wrecks Dhoulmagus because good monsters have more defense than the party at that point
 

NeonBorealis

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Jan 10, 2018
2,993
Reposting this from the OT thread:

Huge potential postgame spoiler:

The title of what seems to be the final boss track is also the title of a multi-part quest you can start in the demo.

It's a Bolderfall quest where a knight is trying to get the attention of a purple haired woman. When you beat up the knight, the woman says (paraphrasing, I might have missed some details too) "You're not the man I'm looking for... I need the blood of a golden haired man, and when I get it, I will change the world."

Not throwing shade at anyone. I just find it funny that no one has found the end because of their laser focus in finding the end.
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,678
Reposting this from the OT thread:

Huge potential postgame spoiler:

The title of what seems to be the final boss track is also the title of a multi-part quest you can start in the demo.

It's a Bolderfall quest where a knight is trying to get the attention of a purple haired woman. When you beat up the knight, the woman says (paraphrasing, I might have missed some details too) "You're not the man I'm looking for... I need the blood of a golden haired man, and when I get it, I will change the world."

Sounds plausible because reviews have said
that side quests objectives are vague and they don't know what to do and left them for later.
 

Turtleboats

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,797
Good reviews, disappointed at lack of interaction, hopefully the stand alone stories are solid enough to make up for it.
 

Swab

Member
Oct 25, 2017
112
Well that's just false. DQ and SMT are notoriously grindy.

Though, I suppose it depends which of the games you've played and how you approach them.

Because in DQ if you buff your party and debuff the enemy you can defeat them, you don't need to grind 5 levels. Same with SMT, if you exploit the enemies' weaknesses you don't need to grind levels just to advance. Yes if you simply just do nothing but attack and heal you will probably need to grind.

Leveling's got nothing to do with it.

What happens if I decide to get every Job in DQ6 or all summons/demons/fusions in SMT?

Is it NEEDED? No, but it is an option. Its not grindy if all your goal is to get to the end, it IS, if your goal us to do more.

If you are doing optional things that require a grind like getting all the jobs or all the demons+fusions then I don't consider it "grindy" nor a detriment to the game. They are literally optional activities that you can choose to do or not. It's like saying pokemon games are "grindy" if you decide you need to collect them all and then level them all up, it's not forced.
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,068
When I got to Dhoulmagus in Dragon Quest VIII, I literally could not beat him without grinding 12 levels for Angelo because he had yet to learn Alheal. I never finished the game because the grinding was too much for me to take.

You do know you can beat with without having to grind? Just because your personal experince made it feel like you cannot progress without grinding levels does not mean the game requires you to. DQ games past the first couple of NES games gives you plenty of options, which is why it is such a fantastic series
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,571
You do know you can beat with without having to grind? Just because your personal experince made it feel like you cannot progress without grinding levels does not mean the game requires you to. DQ games past the first couple of NES games gives you plenty of options, which is why it is such a fantastic series

You can't beat Dhoulmagus without Alheal. The amount of damage he throws out in the second phase of the fight is just too damn much. He hits everyone in the party over and over again and Angelo can't keep up without that AOE heal spell.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,579
You can't beat Dhoulmagus without Alheal. The amount of damage he throws out in the second phase of the fight is just too damn much. He hits everyone in the party over and over again and Angelo can't keep up without that AOE heal spell.

You can. It isn't even very difficult. There are alternative sources of AoE healing, which isn't even necessary itself.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,956
You can't beat Dhoulmagus without Alheal. The amount of damage he throws out in the second phase of the fight is just too damn much. He hits everyone in the party over and over again and Angelo can't keep up without that AOE heal spell.
I have literally never had it when I fought him, and I've played through the game over ten times.

Have you considered buffing yourself? Kabuff/rune staves (free kabuff), insulatle, and magic barrier pay incredible dividends.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,571
You can. It isn't even very difficult. There are alternative sources of AoE healing, which isn't even necessary itself.

Well, when I played the game when it first came out on PS2, and there were no strategy guides for it or anything of the sort, I ended up 12 levels under-level for the fight by the time I got there. That's a lot. I spent like four hours grinding trying to get caught up and just got so bored I stopped playing and never picked it up again.

If other people came up with better strategies since then, good for them.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
You can't beat Dhoulmagus without Alheal. The amount of damage he throws out in the second phase of the fight is just too damn much. He hits everyone in the party over and over again and Angelo can't keep up without that AOE heal spell.

Not that this helps you now, but theres an island in DQ8 filled with Metal Slimes most people used to grind levels. Theres also Metal slimes in that one hunting forest, I think? Angelo also learns MultiHeal somewhere in the mid 30s iirc, so it realistically shouldn't take THAT long.

But, I do agree that Dhoulmagus is near impossible without multiheal, and since you realistically reach him in the mid 20s or so, assuming you don't grind, he requires at least SOME grinding.