Shane M

Avenger
Jan 1, 2018
692
Thorold, Ontario, Canada
Seriously! For the longest time on GAF and elsewhere we all pointed to the Rare acquisition as proof that MS has mishandled this stuff (and interviews after the fact showed how Rare wanted Banjo 3 and MS execs weren't having it and forced some weird ass Nuts and Bolts crap instead).
The only "source" for Nuts & Bolts being forced by Microsoft anybody ever seems to be able to come up with is a post on 4chan.
 

SpokkX

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Nuts and bolts was amazing

overall rare is better than ever imo

Sea of thieves is one of the best gaming experiences out there
 

RedSparrows

Prophet of Regret
Member
Feb 22, 2019
6,651
It is a bit weird, but also extremely on brand for Era to see so many people discount Sea of Thieves because they don't like it, or because it is a GaaS title. The game is objectively a huge success (15M+ players), is getting better almost every month, is popular with content creators, and offers some very unique in the market (open-ended sandbox gameplay with high-end production values and polish). It's a fantastic game, and Rare deserves all the success it has.

Also, saying that one game is not enough to be among the most successful studios in the world makes me wonder what these poster would classify Riot (until last Fall) and Mojonag as, cause I think they are pretty successful...

This.
 
OP
OP
FarSight XR-20
Jan 4, 2018
8,867
When I say "one of the most successful studios today", I don't compare it to Rockstar or say Rare is in a hypothetical top 5 or top 10.

I mean that, at the moment, now, since 2015-2018, their 2 last releases are working extremely well (not all games hit such a big milestone of 15 million players (and it's still growing as it was 2 months ago) and have amazing legs).

They inspire confidence once again, the studio is the biggest it has ever been size-wise. They are back on track and their new IP is obviously among the most successful ones of this gen.

While they were a decade ago disliked/hated by their fanbase, hits by layoffs, without direction or soul, on the verge of irrelevancy and possibly even closure considering what happened to Lionhead (Fable was an iconic franchise for MS and MS bought them in 2006, so it was a major studio for them too. Yet MS closed the studio and they no longer exist. Who knows what would have happened if Rare didn't convince the leadership that they could be successful and relevant again in the industry).

That's what I wanted to emphasize.
 
Last edited:

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,489
Ireland
It seems pretty revisionist to claim Microsoft's acquisition as anything other than a disaster for both themselves and Rare.

Credit should be given to both companies for their endurance to eventually salvage something in Sea of Thieves but it's pretty awful business for it to take 16 years to get something worthwhile out of an acquired studio while all their IP's which were huge at the time (Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker) are effectively dead after failed attempts to reboot.

It was remarkable to watch one of the biggest and most respected studios in gaming driven to very brink of survival like that.
 

kenneld

Banned
Jul 28, 2019
104
"Today, Rare is one of the most successful studios."

Uh... wuh? Good idea for a thread but that claim really shouldn't be part of your thesis.
 

Shane M

Avenger
Jan 1, 2018
692
Thorold, Ontario, Canada
It seems pretty revisionist to claim Microsoft's acquisition as anything other than a disaster for both themselves and Rare.

Credit should be given to both companies for their endurance to eventually salvage something in Sea of Thieves but it's pretty awful business for it to take 16 years to get something worthwhile out of an acquired studio while all their IP's which were huge at the time (Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker) are effectively dead after failed attempts to reboot.

It was remarkable to watch one of the biggest and most respected studios in gaming driven to very brink of survival like that.
Pretending Conker is some huge IP when the game didn't even break a million copies is revisionist.

Rare is probably my favourite studio in the industry but people who went through fifth gen with only an N64 seem to have a bloated sense of how big and important they actually were to gaming as a whole in that era.
 

Ronan_Berthelot

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
208
i just want viva piñata ports to PC :(

but yeah, they're still an incredible company. Sea of Thieves is brilliant. They released some of their best games under MS so i'll always find it weird people saying that MS ruined the studio

Good news, it's on PC since 2007 !

vipipc0f.jpg
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
Yeah I would say the investment was a massive flop, they're on a little rebound now but have been for the most part a total disaster
 

a.wd

Member
Oct 26, 2017
564
UK
Great objective review of their history, sea of thieves is objectively a good game, even though my kids like it way more than me, but everwild though "chefs kiss"
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,454
I think Rare has been making perfect Game Pass games since MS bought them, it just took this long for the business model to catch up, N&B and Viva Pinata would have been huge in a world where they didn't have to charge $60 for them.

They're in a great position now, Everwild looks like a great evolution of the Sea of Thieves concept, I'd still love to see a Viva Pinata game from them next gen.
 

J_Atlas

Member
Apr 11, 2019
391
I just wish they'd do something with viva pinata like make it easy to play on PC, because its super not at this point.
Give me a viva pinata collection.
 

Wabba

Member
Apr 12, 2018
140
"Today, Rare is one of the most successful studios."

This is a big strech, but i love Rares output the recent years. Sea of Thieves is one of the more unique gaming experiences today.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
They were running on fumes from the moment MS bought them and did die, for all intents and purposes, when they got repurposed to work on Kinect crap.

This new studio that made Sea of Thieves and gave us a CG trailer of something that they aren't even fully sure of what it is but are calling it Everwild does not share a whole lot in common with the one that cranked out those N64 classics and kept that console afloat.
 

HouseAR

Member
May 17, 2020
223
Nintendo's cash/liquidity assets have always been very high, so I have never understood the move to sell Rare to MS in 2001.

4-5 Rare's franchises could still today perfectly fit Nintendo's 1st party portfolio creating an even more complete unique offering for the company.

Perfect Dark: perfect serie to remain 1st person shooter flagship title

Banjo: a great alternative to Mario as platformer, with its own twist.Nintendo userbase simply loves the genre

Killer Instinct: a more serious fighter perfectly fitting Smash Bros

Diddy Kong Racing: again, a genre loved by Nintendo user

+ other new ideas etc

I often feel the move to give the studio to MS deprived me of some good quality gaming in the last 20 years
 

Coxy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,197
Nintendo's cash/liquidity assets have always been very high, so I have never understood the move to sell Rare to MS in 2001.

4-5 Rare's franchises could still today perfectly fit Nintendo's 1st party portfolio creating an even more complete unique offering for the company.

Perfect Dark: perfect serie to remain 1st person shooter flagship title

Banjo: a great alternative to Mario as platformer, with its own twist.Nintendo userbase simply loves the genre

Killer Instinct: a more serious fighter perfectly fitting Smash Bros

Diddy Kong Racing: again, a genre loved by Nintendo user

+ other new ideas etc

I often feel the move to give the studio to MS deprived me of some good quality gaming in the last 20 years
Nintendo never actually owned Rare though?
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
703
I absolutely love Grabbed by the Ghoulies and think it's one of the most under rated games ever made. Every Halloween, we play the game as a family and it never gets old. Yes, Rare's Kinect Games were not for everybody, but they were some of the best Kinect-titles, but it just sucked that they were forced to work with the Kinect, a device that had a great potential, but the retail version was a dumb thing.

Outside of Kinect-games, I really feel Rare made some great stuff, from Kameo to Viva Pinata. And I understand that the founders are gone, but they still make cool games. Sea of Thieves is amazing, although I get bored quickly with it.

The best version of Grabbed by the Ghoulies is part of Rare Replay.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,286
The buy was obviously a disaster and MS definitely lost money the years following. Rare is successful now (after an extremely long time) but it is essentially a completely new studio which doesn't need the name.
 

TheDutchSlayer

Did you find it? Cuez I didn't!
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,108
The Hauge, The Netherlands
Fantastic thread, well done op really enjoyed this!

Still feel like its Nintendo´s biggest loss not to buy them when they had such a good relationship.
If rare was Nintendo first party they would have made the GC so much more amazing and appealing for folks who loved Rare on the N64.
 

Kyari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,885
I love Sea of Thieves but man I wish Microsoft would do something with Rare's back catalogue of IPs.
Battletoads was a pretty good start but how long have people been clamouring for Banjo?
 

Salty Rice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,612
Pancake City
Just shows me how much i miss old Rare.

Couldnt care less about Sea of Thieves, just want them use their great IPs they have.

Also i wouldnt say someone is one of the most successful studios just because they finally stopped making Kinect games and made literally one other game again that does decent.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
15 million for sea of thieves? that's more than all 3 donkey kong country games on the snes COMBINED

i'm glad they're doing well. i haven't paid much attention to them since probably when they started kinect, but i'm happy they're still alive and kicking.
 

ber

Member
Oct 31, 2017
175
Hopefully Everwild ends up being amazing.

Then Viva Pinata needs to make an appearance this gen.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,452
As a Nintendo fanboy, I was gutted when this happened. I remember the rumours, the Christmas card image, all of the drama. It was a sad time. I'm glad they still exist and are developing games. Also, the fact that it's a British studio is a +1 from me.
 

Ganondolf

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,098
When was rare's last successful game? Are we just going to assume the next game will be great just because we want it to be. Rare has been a disaster since MS bought them.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,327
Liverpool, UK
I broke out my NES and SNES with the family the other week and Snake Rattle and Roll on the NES was surprisingly quite liked by my fiance. It still holds up!

I think they've been fine, but at the sale they were still at the height of their powers imo and should have been put to better use. It's gradually gotten better over time but I imagine they leaked a fair bit of potential in the transition, it's taken time to get where we are. It's nice to see sea of thieves doing well, and everwild looks gorgeous even if we don't know an awful lot about it.. I've got a feeling they're going to be more important for MS going forward.
 

Bear and bird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,694
They were running on fumes from the moment MS bought them and did die, for all intents and purposes, when they got repurposed to work on Kinect crap.

This new studio that made Sea of Thieves and gave us a CG trailer of something that they aren't even fully sure of what it is but are calling it Everwild does not share a whole lot in common with the one that cranked out those N64 classics and kept that console afloat.
Evolving prototypes is perfectly in line with Rare's development practice of the 90s, actually. Banjo-Kazooie, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye, Diddy Kong Racing and Conker's Bad Fur Day all went through several widely different iterations before Rare decided on what the finished product would become.

Rare chose to work on Kinect themselves, btw.

Pretending Conker is some huge IP when the game didn't even break a million copies is revisionist.

Rare is probably my favourite studio in the industry but people who went through fifth gen with only an N64 seem to have a bloated sense of how big and important they actually were to gaming as a whole in that era.
Yep. To be fair, Conker was never given a proper chance on neither the N64 or the Xbox. ...but the fact remains that Conker was never a big hit. It only became a cult classic.

I love Sea of Thieves but man I wish Microsoft would do something with Rare's back catalogue of IPs.
Battletoads was a pretty good start but how long have people been clamouring for Banjo?
Killer Instinct and Rare Replay was the start. Battletoads was just the continuation. :) I hope Banjo-Kazooie is next.
 

Akai_XIII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,186
Viva Pinata and Nuts and Bolts are great, they're two of my favourite games. They both felt different to anything else that gen, graphically and mechanically.

I loved PD back then. Some of the enemy reactions to being shot havent really become common in FPS, afaik, which is a shame.

I never really liked B&K1 at release but really enjoyed it on the 360.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,517
Sea of Thieves is my game of the generation. I am very happy Rare has been able to make unique and cooperative games. Obviously it isn't the same team as in 1995. That's 25 years ago. I bet many of the 250 people working at Rare weren't even going to school when the studio was acquired by Microsoft.

sea of thieves was not a success and at launch was pretty terrible.

It sold ~5 million copies and 15 million people played it. It's one of Microsoft's biggest gaming IP's.
 
Oct 27, 2017
176
Honestly Sea of Thieves is one of the most empty, boring games I've ever played. Even with friends and all the latest content updates I think it's just a complete failure of game design, and I say that as someone who generally likes open world sandbox survival games with Rust being the peak of the genre in my opinion. Sadly, I don't trust Everwild to be anything more than another hollow game with a pretty coat of paint until proven otherwise.

It's a shame because their N64 output produced some of my favourite games of all time including Conker and Banjo, and I even enjoyed Kameo and Nuts and Bolts quite a bit. For me though they still have quite a bit of work to do to get back to their 2008 output, let alone where they were during the N64.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I haven't been huge on Rare's output in recent years, but I must say I'm really looking forward to Everwild. It looks stunning. I also think they reallllly ought to make Banjo Kazooie 3, if not that, a Remaster of the first two. It's crazy that Microsoft haven't made better use of that incredible franchise.
 

RedSparrows

Prophet of Regret
Member
Feb 22, 2019
6,651
Rare are about making new stuff. They keep making new stuff. They have always, always been like this. Contrast Rare Replay to... Blizzard, say. Dislike it all you want, but they are doing what Rare do, and SoT is very successful, especially in a generation where MS has had problems. Thus, yes, they are one of the most successful XGS, at least.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
I enjoy Thieves, but unless most successful is limited to Microsoft studios releasing Microsoft games this generation, that whole bit is a touch inaccurate lol.
 

Ganondolf

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,098
At launch arguably yes, but now it is one of the most popular games ever.

by what metric, just because MS says there is 15m players does not mean anything. If its 15m active players then yes but as far as I know its not. Also 1m steam sales and about the same on xbox (as a lot of people play it on gamepass) is not good for a game that was in development for 5+ years. this is not an indy title.