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Origins' Sonic 3 won't include all songs from the original game; will be replaced by recreated 1993 soundtrack with help from Jun Senoue
- Thread starter The Deleter
- Start date
Hope it means that it's a recreation as close to the original as they can legally get. I really love the OG Carnival Night Zone.
I don't really like Ice Cap Zone much, and Launch Base Zone was just OK, but I'd take them if I can get OG Carnival Night.
I don't really like Ice Cap Zone much, and Launch Base Zone was just OK, but I'd take them if I can get OG Carnival Night.
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Yeah as much as I understand the love for Ice Cap - it's an incredible piece - it never really vibed with me for the zone itself, either. But then the prototype track doesn't do anything for me either so I would have preferred if we kept the Hard Times 100%
Like this sounds a lot more fitting for a brisk breeze through an easy ice level, but it's so... generic?
Plus I legit do not enjoy the intro, even if PC ver fans say it lines up with the snowboard scene to perfection. Just doesn't sound right.
Like this sounds a lot more fitting for a brisk breeze through an easy ice level, but it's so... generic?
Plus I legit do not enjoy the intro, even if PC ver fans say it lines up with the snowboard scene to perfection. Just doesn't sound right.
The way this is worded has me more confused.
It could mean there are samples within the tracks that they can't use, which I can see I guess. Launch Base has vocal samples.
It could also mean the tracks themselves can't be included, which is why they are using the original 1993 compositions (which might be why they are stressing these are the original tracks, not new).
If they really are replacing the problem songs outright, I would almost prefer some fresh new Tee Lopes ideas instead of the proto tracks. Launch Base proto is ok, but Ice Cap proto is an incredible downgrade.
It could mean there are samples within the tracks that they can't use, which I can see I guess. Launch Base has vocal samples.
It could also mean the tracks themselves can't be included, which is why they are using the original 1993 compositions (which might be why they are stressing these are the original tracks, not new).
If they really are replacing the problem songs outright, I would almost prefer some fresh new Tee Lopes ideas instead of the proto tracks. Launch Base proto is ok, but Ice Cap proto is an incredible downgrade.
Changing Carnival Night by removing the Jam sample, and Ice Cap by removing the "heys" would be simple enough (assuming Ice Cap is feasible in the first place). Launch Base is a tougher nut to crack - those "gos" are all over the song. Idk if you could swap them out 1:1 for something or write some new background melody to replace them.
IIRC that's just the last three levels of 3, right? Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base?
They already changed Knuckles' theme and the miniboss music in the original 3K
They already changed Knuckles' theme and the miniboss music in the original 3K
You can only play the game connected to S&K and not standalone S3, so that song isn't an issue, either.
Oh that's a bummer actually.
My nostalgic experience involved beating Sonic 3 tons of times lol.
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Same. If S3's portion doesn't end with the Big Arm as a boss, I'll be bummed. 3&K in full never really felt complete in comparison.
Will Denuvo allow for this game to be easily modded on PC? I'm doubtful but open to being corrected.
Honestly this is on Sega for playing fast and loose with how they contracted music for Sonic in the early 90's. They have to give Masato Nakamura a scratch on the back for any time they want to use the music of Green Hill or Chemical Plant in new product, and they put themselves in a fucking quagmire with getting Michael Jackson's production team involved with Sonic 3 without locking down the music. The end credits to Sonic 3 ended up as a commercially released track under a record label and Ice Cap was a commercially unreleased song by the composer's band right under their noses. Neither of those things would've happened if they exerted copyright control over what music was composed for Sonic 3, but here we are. They had to rip off the bandaid at some point, and anyone who says future rereleases of Sonic 3 should be held ransom by Sega's irresponsible legal decisions in 1993 because of their nostalgia can fuck right off. It's an amazing game and deserves to be played, if some music has to change it sucks but so be it.
Ice Cap is Hard Times. There's no way around that. They would've had to pony up to whatever Brad Buxer wanted and it seems evident that they didn't.
Honestly this is on Sega for playing fast and loose with how they contracted music for Sonic in the early 90's. They have to give Masato Nakamura a scratch on the back for any time they want to use the music of Green Hill or Chemical Plant in new product, and they put themselves in a fucking quagmire with getting Michael Jackson's production team involved with Sonic 3 without locking down the music. The end credits to Sonic 3 ended up as a commercially released track under a record label and Ice Cap was a commercially unreleased song by the composer's band right under their noses. Neither of those things would've happened if they exerted copyright control over what music was composed for Sonic 3, but here we are. They had to rip off the bandaid at some point, and anyone who says future rereleases of Sonic 3 should be held ransom by Sega's irresponsible legal decisions in 1993 because of their nostalgia can fuck right off. It's an amazing game and deserves to be played, if some music has to change it sucks but so be it.
Ice Cap is Hard Times. There's no way around that. They would've had to pony up to whatever Brad Buxer wanted and it seems evident that they didn't.
The "gos" are from a sample of Run DMC so i'm not even sure what is not ok for Launch Base exept for the small Jam sample that could be easily replaced.
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I am BEGGING sega, please don't replace launch base, the proto forms for those are utter garbage
From earlier in the thread Carnival Night Zone, Icecap Zone, Launch Base Zone, and the ending theme.
I think some were saying that the S3 Knuckles themes and Boss music also fall under this umbrella, but since lock on is forced in Origins it doesn't really matter.
Reportedly only the credits theme was directly composed by MJ, but the tracks by his team are:
- Knuckles' Theme
- Mini-Boss Theme
- Carnival Night
- Ice Cap
- Launch Base
- Credits
- Competition Menu
Frankly I think expecting anything but the promo tracks after the comments on stream is pure
Thanks for the info. I loved Ice Cap Zone BGM from S3. I wonder what they will do...
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Turns out not even the credits theme was directly composed by him, Brad Buxer even stated he had "nothing in mind for it. Nothing" for Stranger in Moscow itself, outright:Reportedly only the credits theme was directly composed by MJ, but the tracks by his team are:
Three of these already go unused in 3&K anyway, so it's just the zone themes and competition mode track that'll need replacements.
- Knuckles' Theme
- Mini-Boss Theme
- Carnival Night
- Ice Cap
- Launch Base
- Credits
- Competition Menu
Frankly I think expecting anything but the promo tracks after the comments on stream is pure
Meanwhile Stranger in Moscow goes under MJ's credits entirely rather than Buxer's on the album itself due to the personal side of the story, and an amateur mistake on his part, as he told in a podcast 3 years ago:
(timestamp @ 49:00)
Doesnt seem like there was a problem til he died. Must be the estate.
Is his estate even aware of these songs? Why can't they negotiate?
No idea, but SEGA's lawyers won't recommend sneaking these song without doing their due dIligence. They could easily get sued.
If you mean his estate, maybe it's a combination of $$$ and the rights situation being potentially complicated. According to Brad Buxer MJ did virtually nothing on the soundtrack, but Buxer and the rest of the team that came with him did. Ice Cap Zone's track is literally an (at the time) unpublished song from Buxer's old band. So the problem might be that in order to secure the rights to use the songs they'd have to get agreements with everyone involved as well as MJ's estate, and it's simply too expensive and/or too difficult to figure out who should be paid for what at this point.
I think there was a problem before then. Remember that the original PC version used MIDI renditions of the beta tracks instead of the tracks written by MJ's team. Perhaps any release using the original ROM image (or sound data) was legally fine, but any rearrangement was forbidden.
What the hell kind of contract did Sega make in the '90s where Jackson or his estate could potentially later claim content he didn't even want to be credited for anyway? It's so bizarre.