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NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,387
I need to find a fun pick who can counter Orisa without just pulling out the mirror since it's not really a fun mirror.
Zarya? Ppl usually go Zarya into her and melt her. Zarya's kit is good at countering Orisa's cooldowns.
For me personally since the season went live it's been like 60% DF and 30% Orisa. The other 10% is usually Rein, Zarya or JQ. Despite the rework, seems like no one is picking WB in QP.
 

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,425
Zarya? Ppl usually go Zarya into her and melt her. Zarya's kit is good at countering Orisa's cooldowns.
For me personally since the season went live it's been like 60% DF and 30% Orisa. The other 10% is usually Rein, Zarya or JQ. Despite the rework, seems like no one is picking WB in QP.

Zarya works, but I find her SO boring. Maybe the most boring tank of all for my sensibilities

I've seen quite a few WBs, they've been super obnoxious, even more so than usual
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,130
I should try tank in comp. Every time I decide to stick with the tank role in QP, I actually do well cuz I actually know when to use cover. I just hate playing the role.

I can carry as JQ, Ram and Zarya if my teammates actually play aggressive like me. If they turtle, it's a loss.

Another reason I like Clash is if you don't go all out for the point, you lose it. No recaptures. You can tell when some players just can't adapt to the map.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
Some thoughts on Clash. I like this mode for the most part. Perhaps more than any mode in Overwatch it just sort of gets to the point. It's actually recaptured something of the original game for me when it comes to the nature of the battles. It's much more common, in Clash, to die and rejoin the same ongoing fight. Whether this is good in general or not, it's something that sets it apart from the other five modes.

I do think there is a flaw though, bigger with any of the current modes. Essentially it is this: it barely matters how well your team plays for the first two thirds of the match. Imagine your team dominates from the start. You win the fight for C, then D. Winning E is nigh on impossible, so you fall back to D. This repeats with your lead alternating between one and two points until the score gets to 4-3. For all of your team's dominance up to this point, you are one point ahead and fighting over a control point which favours them. If you now lose that one fight you are arguably favoured to lose because your team has to respawn while theirs can start taking strong positions on the central point. It creates a bit of a perverse incentive. If your team is attacking E you don't really want to fight for it. I'm not sure what the meta strategy will be, but it will be something between letting your opponents take the point for free and fighting it in such a way that your team has a resource advantage going into the next fight. Neither of these things is intuitive, and neither will feel good to do or watch.

In other modes dominance pays dividends. In Push, Hybrid and Escort every metre the cart moves, and every second it doesn't counts at the end. In Control and Flashpoint every second your team has the point and theirs doesn't counts. By contrast, in Clash, you gain points for clinging onto the game. The reward for successfully defending E is that you haven't lost, it shouldn't be a point.

I think this is quite easy to solve: change the scoring system so you don't gain a point when you take a control point on your side of the map, i.e. if you are attacking towards E, you only get points by taking C, D, and E. This maintains the property that the winning team is winning the tug of war, but unlike the current system it rewards dominance.

Then there's the endpoints. Clearly on a basic level it feels like it's far too hard to take them... but the balance here is difficult. We can see what it feels like when taking it is nearly impossible, if it were too easy to take games would regularly end in two minutes while the struggling team tried to figure out their response. I think in some way they're going to have to make it easier to take the end points as the game progresses, to get the best of both worlds where it's hard to win 3-0 but more viable to win 4-1, or 5-2.
 

Allietraa

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 13, 2019
1,915
I was so sad yesterday that I got into a tank match, tried out like 3 different tanks against an Orisa and we just kept getting slammed, so I swapped to the mirror and we finally did well and were competitive. I need to find a fun pick who can counter Orisa without just pulling out the mirror since it's not really a fun mirror.
IMO trying to directly counter Orisa is just misery, even Zarya with a billion charge doesnt really work if your team just refuses to shoot her supports/DPS and the Orisa isnt brainlessly running out of LoS of their team

My crackhead pick is to just go Winston and basically ignore her, focus on killing supports(or maybe an isolated DPS) and then you can clean up Orisa afterwards. Works really well with certain comps/maps, especially if there is high ground you can abuse since Orisa cant really do anything about you jumping up and down. Also his gun goes through armor(and her spin ability), so if you can bubble her off from her supports you can actually do some meaningful damage if you just cant get to their backline. Definitely not a "swap and win" hero but worth giving it a shot if you're a Winston enjoyer
 

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,425
Mauga obliterates Orisa

Mauga was one I tried, but I was getting blown up. There was an Ana ruining my life and it didn't seem like our Kiri had the freedom to save cleanse for it.

IMO trying to directly counter Orisa is just misery, even Zarya with a billion charge doesnt really work if your team just refuses to shoot her supports/DPS and the Orisa isnt brainlessly running out of LoS of their team

My crackhead pick is to just go Winston and basically ignore her, focus on killing supports(or maybe an isolated DPS) and then you can clean up Orisa afterwards. Works really well with certain comps/maps, especially if there is high ground you can abuse since Orisa cant really do anything about you jumping up and down. Also his gun goes through armor(and her spin ability), so if you can bubble her off from her supports you can actually do some meaningful damage if you just cant get to their backline. Definitely not a "swap and win" hero but worth giving it a shot if you're a Winston enjoyer

I really need to play more Winston. He's always really fun, I just never really think about picking him. I need to watch a few guides for him since he seems so simple but it's so easy to tell good Winstons from bad so there's def more going on there.
 

Young Liar

Member
Nov 30, 2017
3,428
finally got around to actually playing ranked again after not playing much in season 8 and none at all in season 9 when i was still wrapping up baldur's gate 3 then had all my time taken up by ff7 rebirth.

of course i just had to start with tank, and while i had a pretty good start going 4-0 with my placements fairly easily, i went 0-6 afterwards lol. most of those losses were close so i didn't feel too bad, but also there were a couple matches that my team should have won if not for either one support or one dps feeding, so that was kind of annoying.

going back to ranked ow after playing a lot of ranked street fighter 6 also makes the former feel worse now. every loss in sf6 i know exactly where i fuck up and what i can do better, and i only ever have to just think about my own performance. there's just less frustration knowing i'm completely responsible for my own wins and losses in that game. with these recent losses in my return to ow ranked, i'm back to feeling annoyed by match outcomes not being in my control all the time, and it's even worse when i'm performing to the best of my abilities and still lose because one teammate is having a real terrible game.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,537
Chicago
Ram is weird for me where I feel like some matches I'm incredibly useful, others i'm tissue paper and just get obliterated as soon as i'm on screen. I always just chalked it up to me not playing a lot of tank, but yeah his kit is pretty complex. I like it though, he's fun to play. Hitting a big Ram ulti feels amazing, makes me want to cackle like him.
Ram is a really good brawl tank. He has a shield, can rush, has insane damage mitigation, and can even poke and slow down enemies.

Tank is just made worse when simpler kits can't keep up with that and you're just getting swapped on with no mitigation from your team.

I don't deny that he's fun to play from time to time but it's OW, sometimes you're in the mood to switch it up and that's just not an option on the role anymore.

You have no options but the best choice most of the time on tank.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,387
I feel like the best option would be to tone down Orisa a bit. I am not sure what exactly but they could do something to make her a bit less oppressive to fight against. It just feels like she can soak up so much damage and survive so much.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,351
I feel like the best option would be to tone down Orisa a bit. I am not sure what exactly but they could do something to make her a bit less oppressive to fight against. It just feels like she can soak up so much damage and survive so much.

Yeah, even just shifting a little bit of her armor back into health might make a huge difference. Hopefully Blizz is looking at that.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,387
Yeah, even just shifting a little bit of her armor back into health might make a huge difference. Hopefully Blizz is looking at that.
She was one of the biggest S9 winners i think. Because she was never really hard to hit thanks to her being a huge target but she got more health just like every other hero, plus i think that her primary still doesn't have damage fall-off and is easier to hit and land headshots with and her Ult was buffed too. These are all wins for her.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,734
Mauga was one I tried, but I was getting blown up. There was an Ana ruining my life and it didn't seem like our Kiri had the freedom to save cleanse for it.



I really need to play more Winston. He's always really fun, I just never really think about picking him. I need to watch a few guides for him since he seems so simple but it's so easy to tell good Winstons from bad so there's def more going on there.

Love Winston, I usually open most games as him, but at my level of play the dps players think they're geniuses and usually swap to reaper and/or bastion to make my life miserable as soon as I'm doing well lol. I usually swap off but sometimes I'll tough it out.

I just need my team to take advantage of those enemy hero choices but usually they don't.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,698
I still see Hog being much more survivable and much more of a nuisance that Orisa. I'd rather they got him than Orisa.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,130
I feel like the best option would be to tone down Orisa a bit. I am not sure what exactly but they could do something to make her a bit less oppressive to fight against. It just feels like she can soak up so much damage and survive so much.

They should stop buffing her. Someone at Blizzard must main her.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,387
So, somehow the twich drops unlocked me the skin but not the other two things.
Weird, i got all 3 today.

I am so confused by this btw:

GLirVWYWEAA3Dzo

GLirVWRXIAYdbbS

GLirVWYWgAAuX26


Someone on reddit noticed that Illari's Pylon is golden now, but only during the sit emote and while it's in the air when she is throwing it. Once it sticks to the surface tho... it's not golden anymore, lol.
 

vmk

Member
Sep 13, 2018
243
Hellcife
Clash is a nice addition, but i guess it will be very easy to stomp/be stomped through, especially if you are on stack. The linear
nature of the map provided to me a feeling i was playing that space empire map of season 5 with a japanese theme
and a little, tiny bit of possibility of managing more flanking. I dunno, maybe was the fact that the mode was on open queue,
but that is my impression of it.

And boy, Venture is so much fun, either playing them or countering with Cass. Imo the best add to roster since Season 1.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,638
My thoughts on clash are still that the pacing feels off. Death timing also seemed super punishing. Sometimes a point goes completely uncontested, and frankly too often. I think the cap timer needs to slowed down, or maybe longer time til the point unlocks or maybe a bit of both.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,159
Mauga obliterates Orisa
Still early into my Mauga usage but I've never really felt this way because even a bad Orisa can soak up so much time and Gatling damage going gold to offset the whole fire equals crit thing or the stomp knockdown, and it's not like Mauga's limited options let him punish it as such.

Not saying you're wrong, spill the tea and give me pointers if possible because I feel like if faced with a good and well supported Orisa, my Mauga would be way more vulnerable in a DPS race, he's just ultimately a lot squishier with less mitigation right?
Feels more like an even-ish fight that comes down to what everyone else is doing around it.

Love Winston, I usually open most games as him, but at my level of play the dps players think they're geniuses and usually swap to reaper and/or bastion to make my life miserable as soon as I'm doing well lol. I usually swap off but sometimes I'll tough it out.

I just need my team to take advantage of those enemy hero choices but usually they don't.
It's actually kinda funny that Winston feels like one of the few tanks where the DPS will counter pick on the regular when you're on a roll.
Probably because he's just so damn good at ruining the quick play faves like widow and genji.

I can somewhat work around reaper, but bastion, that's the one where it's like "damn they really want me out"
Take solace in knowing that you made people switch to the simplest and arguably least exciting DPS options lol
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,081
Still early into my Mauga usage but I've never really felt this way because even a bad Orisa can soak up so much time and Gatling damage going gold to offset the whole fire equals crit thing or the stomp knockdown, and it's not like Mauga's limited options let him punish it as such.

Not saying you're wrong, spill the tea and give me pointers if possible because I feel like if faced with a good and well supported Orisa, my Mauga would be way more vulnerable in a DPS race, he's just ultimately a lot squishier with less mitigation right?
Feels more like an even-ish fight that comes down to what everyone else is doing around it.
In my experience Mauga is virtually unkillable as long as he's able to keep shooting the enemy tank. That being said, yeah if that orisa has two supports glued to her and your supports aren't pulling their weight you'll die. You can also use his charge to run away if things get dicey. You're right that he doesn't have much in the way of damage mitigation but his regen is crazy strong.

The only tank that gives me trouble with Mauga is junker queen with her tiny hitbox.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,632
I love Illari and do pretty well with her in my mid diamond rank I've been in since the reset, it's just… harder than it needs to be.

First I'd buff the secondary fire healing which they already did. Her primary I'm just whatever, idc anymore. I do wish though they would increase her ult damage a little, only to keep up better with the HP increase.
 

ProjectPick

Member
Oct 26, 2017
317
In my experience Mauga is virtually unkillable as long as he's able to keep shooting the enemy tank. That being said, yeah if that orisa has two supports glued to her and your supports aren't pulling their weight you'll die. You can also use his charge to run away if things get dicey. You're right that he doesn't have much in the way of damage mitigation but his regen is crazy strong.

The only tank that gives me trouble with Mauga is junker queen with her tiny hitbox.

A good Orissa will spin and then javelin the muaga as soon as he pops overdrive. That's going to eat into a big chunk of his time to push when he's the most survivable.

Add in fortify negates any burn damage and doesnt let muaga crit so he can't get over health. She also has the zero falloff projectiles and can wittle a muaga down from distance.

Muaga vs Orissa really is a neutral, cooldown management focused matchup. And hoping teammates force Orissa cool downs then you can punish her.

By the way once Orissa gets nerfed it's going to be a Muaga, Hog and Doom (those that are good at doom) meta. She is way overtuned and keeping a lot of the tank roster in check currently.
 

Tommy Showbiz

Member
Jul 20, 2022
1,880


I feel like the complaint about the weekly challenges is a bit overblown.

You get about 10k less BP XP a week which means you're losing out on about a level a week, which is virtually nothing. I consider this a net positive that I no longer have to do the obnoxious as fuck 250 assist challenges/Damage Mitigated/etc. challenges that pidgeonhole you into playing a specific character so you can finish them faster.
 
OP
OP
Solidsnakejej

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,793
Fort Lauderdale
I feel like the complaint about the weekly challenges is a bit overblown.

You get about 10k less BP XP a week which means you're losing out on about a level a week, which is virtually nothing. I consider this a net positive that I no longer have to do the obnoxious as fuck 250 assist challenges/Damage Mitigated/etc. challenges that pidgeonhole you into playing a specific character so you can finish them faster.

We had 12 5k bounties down to 5, so 7* 5k = 35k xp a week and 31.5 levels through the whole season or 15% of the total 200 levels.
 

Tommy Showbiz

Member
Jul 20, 2022
1,880
We had 12 5k bounties down to 5, so 7* 5k = 35k xp a week and 31.5 levels through the whole season or 15% of the total 200 levels.

Are you factoring in the fact that completing 1/3/5 Weeklies now awards 25k XP total?

Those weekly goals used to reward coins instead of XP, so unless I'm missing something you're only losing out on the equivalent of 2 weeklies a week. You earned 60k XP from completing all weeklies prior to Season 10. You now only earn 50k XP from the weeklies, but you have significantly fewer of them to do. Like I said, I consider this a win if it means I don't have to play Arcade anymore for no reason other than to finish a weekly.
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,981
I'm playing many more games now that it doesn't force me to play stuff I don't want to play so it offsets the loss for me.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,734
Still early into my Mauga usage but I've never really felt this way because even a bad Orisa can soak up so much time and Gatling damage going gold to offset the whole fire equals crit thing or the stomp knockdown, and it's not like Mauga's limited options let him punish it as such.

Not saying you're wrong, spill the tea and give me pointers if possible because I feel like if faced with a good and well supported Orisa, my Mauga would be way more vulnerable in a DPS race, he's just ultimately a lot squishier with less mitigation right?
Feels more like an even-ish fight that comes down to what everyone else is doing around it.


It's actually kinda funny that Winston feels like one of the few tanks where the DPS will counter pick on the regular when you're on a roll.
Probably because he's just so damn good at ruining the quick play faves like widow and genji.

I can somewhat work around reaper, but bastion, that's the one where it's like "damn they really want me out"
Take solace in knowing that you made people switch to the simplest and arguably least exciting DPS options lol

Yeah, I think his big head and the limited HP on his bubble invites the counters. And the solo initiations that he's good at. Also bastion has lots of health and the Tesla gun doesn't really have an advantage against his big hit box.

My friends and I joke that the enemy team finally cracked open their Prima strategy guide so it's curtains for the monkey lol.
 
OP
OP
Solidsnakejej

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,793
Fort Lauderdale
Are you factoring in the fact that completing 1/3/5 Weeklies now awards 25k XP total?

Those weekly goals used to reward coins instead of XP, so unless I'm missing something you're only losing out on the equivalent of 2 weeklies a week. You earned 60k XP from completing all weeklies prior to Season 10. You now only earn 50k XP from the weeklies, but you have significantly fewer of them to do. Like I said, I consider this a win if it means I don't have to play Arcade anymore for no reason other than to finish a weekly.

Not gonna lie, did not even see that, probably the same thing that happen to the guy, but yea your right.
 

Tommy Showbiz

Member
Jul 20, 2022
1,880
Not gonna lie, did not even see that, probably the same thing that happen to the guy, but yea your right.

No worries, it's easy to miss honestly.

I'm playing many more games now that it doesn't force me to play stuff I don't want to play so it offsets the loss for me.

Yeah, I would frequently play Brigitte in order to try and complete multiple weeklies at once lol. The assist challenge was the WORST for me since I'd just end up playing Mercy just to get it over with as fast as possible.
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,981
Yeah, I would frequently play Brigitte in order to try and complete multiple weeklies at once lol. The assist challenge was the WORST for me since I'd just end up playing Mercy just to get it over with as fast as possible.

It's tanks that I didn't want to play right now. The assists one I enjoyed because I like playing Zenyatta and it was extremely rare for the other support to pick it.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,340
Honestly never felt the challenges required so much that I actually had to pay attention to complete them. I understand if your playtime is very limited but I've never had issues getting them done playing 1-2 hours like 4 days a week on average.
 

Allietraa

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 13, 2019
1,915

Mirrorwatch is a hit or miss theme plus few balance changes and Venture not being a game changing hero lead to this season feeling kind of meh even though it's a new hero season IMO

Like I'm still having fun but if Venture doesnt show up in your match the games feel just like it did a week ago lol. And(afaik) they didnt even go through the trouble of changing the time of day on any maps this season so you dont even get that little hit of freshness...it's just Season 9 with Venture and new skins. Which tbf is better than some past seasons but not the kind of excitement I hope for with a new hero season.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,340
Mirrorwatch is a hit or miss theme plus few balance changes and Venture not being a game changing hero lead to this season feeling kind of meh even though it's a new hero season IMO

Like I'm still having fun but if Venture doesnt show up in your match the games feel just like it did a week ago lol. And(afaik) they didnt even go through the trouble of changing the time of day on any maps this season so you dont even get that little hit of freshness...it's just Season 9 with Venture and new skins. Which tbf is better than some past seasons but not the kind of excitement I hope for with a new hero season.
The Mirrorwatch event isn't even up yet. How are we judging the season already.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,130
I feel like the complaint about the weekly challenges is a bit overblown.

You get about 10k less BP XP a week which means you're losing out on about a level a week, which is virtually nothing. I consider this a net positive that I no longer have to do the obnoxious as fuck 250 assist challenges/Damage Mitigated/etc. challenges that pidgeonhole you into playing a specific character so you can finish them faster.

I agree, Flats had similar thoughts that most people never got full amount cuz some achievements were not worth the effort. I also skipped the damage mitigation and any others like that. Not worth my time.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,159
The new quick play/gold level threat seemingly is boosted mercy pocket reaper, something that's so obvious, unsubtle, something I constantly ping, something that off screen solos my teams junker, mercy and ashe combo alone in the background somehow...

I've seen this in a few games now and damn sometimes I forget how naff the average player is against reaper, like they think they'll outgun him in close quarters somehow

Clicks Doomfist
Players swap to Bastion/Sombra (mercy pocket on Bastion)
Swaps to Orisa

Overwatch 2.
Gotta love how not only is doom comically shutdown into near pointlessness when hacked, but two of his three main moves have you borderline immobile when using , effectively you planted a hack me sign on your back.
All those character switches are missing are Ana so you can get sleep nade'd for the full experience

Honestly surprised sombra can't just hold back into the sky during dooms ult and have him plummet out the sky
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,340
The new quick play/gold level threat seemingly is boosted mercy pocket reaper, something that's so obvious, unsubtle, something I constantly ping, something that off screen solos my teams junker, mercy and ashe combo alone in the background somehow...

I've seen this in a few games now and damn sometimes I forget how naff the average player is against reaper, like they think they'll outgun him in close quarters somehow


Gotta love how not only is doom comically shutdown into near pointlessness when hacked, but two of his three main moves have you borderline immobile when using , effectively you planted a hack me sign on your back.
All those character switches are missing are Ana so you can get sleep nade'd for the full experience

Honestly surprised sombra can't just hold back into the sky during dooms ult and have him plummet out the sky
I've dreamt of this. So many times the fucker escapes my hack just before it completes with the ult. Should 100% be able to get him as he goes up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,978
Las Vegas
Man forget battle pass XP, Blizzard is going to have to give me Overwatch coins if they want me to queue for tank. Entire role needs a rework from the ground up at this point with how bad the S9 changes fucked it over.

Edit: LMAO, there's a top 500 role queue challenger in my QP game yet Blizzard wants to install harsher quit penalties? Make that shit make sense.
 
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NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,387
I don't really understand all the complains about tank role, most of them feel fine to me. I don't know what the issue is exactly and what can they do to make a single tank per team be more impactful but not be broken at the same time. I feel like many just can't get used to playing them more as brawly DPS with more health and can't get used to being a single tank in the team.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,340
The solution to the Tank issue is to accept Orisa into your life and stop pretending Rein is in fact a more interesting tank. Same for Ram. There's good times to be had Tanking with Orisa, Ram, Winston, and Dva.

That said, just reduce the dps passive on tanks by 10% imo. Surprised they seem hesitant to try that yet.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,698
I have a lot of fun with tank, switch a lot and play the best one for the team I'm against. I like tank one hell of a lot more than I did in 1.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,130
Playing tank is just more pressure cuz most players kinda expect you to lead them into the fight. I'm a pretty aggressive tank so if the supports can keep up, I usually just delete everyone.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,340
Playing tank is just more pressure cuz most players kinda expect you to lead them into the fight. I'm a pretty aggressive tank so if the supports can keep up, I usually just delete everyone.
This is what attracts me to playing Tank. I usually start my session on DPS, if my Tanks are too fucking scared to move forward I get frustrated and go Tank next, pick Dva, and drag everyone forward in every way I can. It's generally, effective going by my win rate.
 

Tommy Showbiz

Member
Jul 20, 2022
1,880
The solution to the Tank issue is to accept Orisa into your life and stop pretending Rein is in fact a more interesting tank. Same for Ram. There's good times to be had Tanking with Orisa, Ram, Winston, and Dva.

That said, just reduce the dps passive on tanks by 10% imo. Surprised they seem hesitant to try that yet.

Not to say that tank doesn't have significant issues, but I think at least 80% of the time when people say how much tank sucks what they really mean is that Reinhardt sucks.