Patched Switch games become unbootable without the patch data [Unless you factory reset your switch]

[Deleted member 3017]

me neither but everyone here is saying the cart saves the information somehow.

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Actually, it's one person saying it. Nintendo can track cart activity if your system is online, which is why you can't earn gold coins from the same cart on multiple systems. If you take a cart to a Switch that hasn't patched the game and this system is offline, I would be shocked if the cart is unusable. If the system is online, then yes, the servers can likely infer that it had been used to received a patch in the past.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Doesn't on PlayStation, it just shows a crash error message

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Pretty sure save file versioning is a developer side feature on PS4. So it's up to developers to detect save files from later patches and gracefully deal with that. In some cases, poor advanced planning could lead to a game that deliberately crashes if it is presented with a save file past a version it can cope with.
<_<
>_>
-_-

 

[SweetVermouth]

Disable wifi so the Switch doesn't know there is an update available?

 

[horkrux]

Every game asks you to update if there is a patch available. You don't have to do that.

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that's not what I meant tho

 

[papercan]

Every game asks you to update if there is a patch available. You don't have to do that.

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when nintendo suggests taking a break you can't continue to play, you have to press pause and eventually reset the console and start again but it will happen again after a while.

 

[Vicious17]

Space if limited. If you have to make room to buy/donwload a new game and delete an old game it deletes the patches, even if you only archive.

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its really not though. Micro SD cards are super cheat, especially on sales. Besides, patches are the LAST thing you should be deleting.

 

[Vito]

Disable wifi so the Switch doesn't know there is an update available?

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Doesn't work.

Cart just refuses to boot up. I can't even choose a different user. It's either update or fuck off.

 

[XDevil666]

Ive definitely never seen a game crash because youre using a save with a higher version patch. The save just becomes unusable till you update the game.

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Give Crash bandicoot a shot, happened to me just yesterday

 

[Deleted member 3017]

Doesn't work.

Cart just refuses to boot up. I can't even choose a different user. It's either update or fuck off.

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Yeah, on your Switch it won't work. On a different Switch disabling WiFi would work though. It's s console/network issue, not a cart issue.

 

[Vito]

that's not what I meant tho

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So you can confirm that you bought a used game, boot it up offline and it required to update then?

You also didnt have data on the system of that game right?

 

[Plum]

...so has anyone actually tried testing this to see whether it's the save data, the cards themselves or another factor causing the issue? The OP has given no info outside of "I deleted my patch and now it won't work."

 

[Vito]

Yeah, on your Switch it won't work. On a different Switch disabling WiFi would work though. It's s console/network issue, not a cart issue.

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This fucking sucks...

 

[horkrux]

So you can confirm that you bought a used game, boot it up offline and it required to update then?

You also didnt have data on the system of that game right?

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I haven't experienced it myself for lack of games, but people over on gbatemp were talking about this issue
Can't really find those discussions anymore tho

 

[Deleted member 3017]

This fucking sucks...

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It's actually not a big deal, unless formatting your system also does not allow you to use the cart. That's the only scenario where this could be a problem in like 10-15 years. Worst case scenario, you buy a cheap used Switch in 12 years if the network is offline, where all carts will work.

 

[Deleted member 3758]

..

 

[Council Pop]

This whole thread makes absolutely no sense.

We've known since before the Switch released that the carts are read-only, so we know for a FACT that OPs issues are because of their saved data on their Switch and nothing to do with the cart itself.

We also know that this "issue", which apparently causes hypothetical future problems, is exactly the same on PS4 (no word on XB1), so the "wtf Nintendo!!" responses are somewhat over the top.

And we also have no idea why OP actually cares about this so much. Is this actually something to do with hacking the Switch?

 

[Kandinsky]

Either it's flagged in the cart or on the system ... or the system reads your save requires a higher version of the game. I'm not deleting my BotW save to test that last theory.

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lol, this is priceless.

 

[Rats]

Either it's flagged in the cart or on the system ... or the system reads your save requires a higher version of the game. I'm not deleting my BotW save to test that last theory.

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I'm willing to test this when I get home today. I only own two physical Switch games but I'll happily delete the saves for one of them.

 

[Vito]

I'm willing to test this when I get home today. I only own two physical Switch games but I'll happily delete the saves for one of them.

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Please keep us posted.

 

[TheCrackedJack]

I mean, it's definitely not the same as the PS4. There might be a limited amount of games that suffer a similar issue with saves.

However, just a week ago, I decided to replay the PS4 version of Wolf 2. I had deleted the game previously, but kept the saves. I was also online at the time. The system allowed me to start the game unpatched and play it without any problems whatsoever. We are talking about a different issue here with the Switch.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

This whole thread makes absolutely no sense.

We've known since before the Switch released that the carts are read-only, so we know for a FACT that OPs issues are because of their saved data on their Switch and nothing to do with the cart itself.

We also know that this "issue", which apparently causes hypothetical future problems, is exactly the same on PS4 (no word on XB1), so the "wtf Nintendo!!" responses are somewhat over the top.

And we also have no idea why OP actually cares about this so much. Is this actually something to do with hacking the Switch?

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We know that carts give club Nintendo coins, which means Nintendo has the ability to identify specific carts, which means they have the ability to flag or lock down carts. They already do this when a cart is pirated, don't they?

And no this does not happen on PS4. You can't load some saves but you can boot the game and make a new save.

The guy cares because if Nintendo never releases these flagged games then at some point in the future when patches are no longer available, it is possible that all game cards will be rendered inert.

 

[DekuBleep]

What if you create a new user on your Switch?

 

[Council Pop]

We know that carts give club Nintendo coins, which means Nintendo has the ability to identify specific carts, which means they have the ability to flag lock down carts. They already do this when a cart is pirated, don't they?

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It's called the internet. NOTHING changes on the cart itself.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

This whole thread makes absolutely no sense.

We've known since before the Switch released that the carts are read-only, so we know for a FACT that OPs issues are because of their saved data on their Switch and nothing to do with the cart itself.

We also know that this "issue", which apparently causes hypothetical future problems, is exactly the same on PS4 (no word on XB1), so the "wtf Nintendo!!" responses are somewhat over the top.

And we also have no idea why OP actually cares about this so much. Is this actually something to do with hacking the Switch?

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I do think it's also a network issue, not just a system one. Nintendo can track how a cart has been used across systems. That being said, in the hypothetical scenario in 15 years when you want to play a new Switch cart on a system with no network access, you should be fine. Unless you previously patched the game on that specific console and subsequently deleted it. In that unlikely scenario, you may have to format your device or use a different Switch. Long story short, the cart isn't totally unusable.

 

[Deleted member 8791]

And we also have no idea why OP actually cares about this so much. Is this actually something to do with hacking the Switch?

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Not op but from other threads, he is pretty extreme (from my perspective) when it comes to physical preservation. It can be hard to understand if you're like me and just buying games digital nowadays.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

I'm willing to test this when I get home today. I only own two physical Switch games but I'll happily delete the saves for one of them.

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No need to test, it's already known your system won't let you play the game unpatched.

 

[Plum]

I deleted BotW's Patch + DLC, created a new user, and tried to boot it up while it was in Airplane Mode and it didn't work. It stopped me before I could get to the User Select and load up my second user.

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It's likely the save data being there, then. Save data for different users is stored separately (I just tested this) but the Switch could still just put a flag saying it detects save data from a later patch and thus make the game unbootable. It also wouldn't make sense if the Switch simply disallowed the booting of unpatched games as 1) the system's a handheld and thus offline play is necessary and 2) we'd have heard a lot more about the issue by now.

So, whilst still not conclusive, it seems that the OP's issue is that when you:
1) Create save data for a patched cartridge game and leave it on the Switch
2) Delete said patch data but keep the save data
You can't play the game without downloading the patch again.

 

[Council Pop]

I do think it's also a network issue, not just a system one. Nintendo can track how a cart has been used across systems. That being said, in the hypothetical scenario in 15 years when you want to play a new Switch cart on a system with no network access, you should be fine. Unless you previously patched the game on that specific console and subsequently deleted it. In that unlikely scenario, you may have to format your device or use a different Switch. Long story short, the cart isn't totally unusable.

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Yeah, this is my exact point. No online, no problem. No data whatsoever is written to the cart.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

It's called the internet. NOTHING changes on the cart itself.

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So? If Nintendo is maintaining a directory of game IDs that have been updated and preventing them from running without that update then it doesn't matter whether the data is stored on the cart itself.

It's already been established that putting the switch on airplane mode doesn't solve the problem so you telling me about the internet (?) is pretty meaningless.

This problem is (maybe?) solved by buying another switch, but that is not an acceptable solution.

 

[Dyle]

It's probably a game to game thing. If you have save data that references data added in patches, then there are all sorts of problems that could pop up, so it makes much more sense to stop the game from launching if the save data and patch version don't match up. That's not something that developers are likely to debug since it's a super niche problem. Probably better to stop people from playing than potentially exposing them to untested bugs

 

[Council Pop]

It's already been established that putting the switch on airplane mode doesn't solve the problem so you telling me about the internet (?) is pretty meaningless.

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No it hasn't. The poster who supposedly 'investigated' this still has save data from that game on the Switch, which is why they are still being prompted to redownload the patches.

Also, the whole reason that OP is worried about this is because they still want to be able to play physical games when the servers go down. In that situation, there will be no directory of game IDs for the Switch to connect to as the servers will no longer exist!

 

[Deleted member 3017]

So? If Nintendo is maintaining a directory of game IDs that have been updated and preventing them from running without that update then it doesn't matter whether the data is stored on the cart itself.

It's already been established that putting the switch on airplane mode doesn't solve the problem so you telling me about the internet (?) is pretty meaningless.

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I think people are discussing different things here. It's a known fact once you update a game on a specific Switch, you can't play the game if you delete the patch. And it appears this is even the case if you take the cart to a different Switch that is connected to the internet.

What some are worried about is the potential worthlessness of carts once the network is down in 15+ years. And although you may have to jump through some hoops to make some games boot, no carts will be rendered completely unplayable (unless it's a game that required a constant internet connection or something).

 

[Rats]

No need to test, it's already known your system won't let you play the game unpatched.

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I believe you, but there seems to be enough confusion even on this point that I don't mind doing it.

 

[Kandinsky]

So um... I just tried it by deleting Mario+Rabbids, (save included) and indeed the game wont start unless I update it, so weeeeird.

Will try the cart on my nephew's switch later.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

I believe you, but there seems to be enough confusion even on this point that I don't mind doing it.

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I tested this with DOOM back in November. If you patch the game once, you aren't playing the game again unpatched. What I'd be curious to know about is what happens when a Switch is re-initialized/formatted

 

[Vito]

So um... I just tried it by deleting Mario+Rabbids, (save included) and indeed the game wont start unless I update it, so weeeeird.

Will try the cart on my nephew's switch later.

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Welp.

This really is stupid. There's 0 pros in doing this.

 

[Rats]

So um... I just tried it by deleting Mario+Rabbids, (save included) and indeed the game wont start unless I update it, so weeeeird.

Will try the cart on my nephew's switch later.

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Make sure to put the other Switch in airplane mode before trying it the first time.

I tested this with DOOM back in November. If you patch the game once, you aren't playing the game again unpatched. What I'd be curious to know about is what happens when a Switch is re-initialized/formatted

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Hmm...if it wasn't for my Mario Kart save I would be totally willing to try this.

 

[RROCKMAN]

Guess I cant go back and farm those tickets in splatoon lol


I wish I could try the reformating thing but I'm way to far in BOTW and my little bro is too far into hollow knight.

I wish I brought that second switch now

 

[Atheerios]

Well yeah, that's how it's supposed to work. I'm very glad Nintendo is doing it that way.

If in the future the servers for down you either already have the patch (if you deleted it, then it's entirely your fault) or you never downloaded it. Neither of those possibilities will cause problems.

 

[Council Pop]

What I'd be curious to know about is what happens when a Switch is re-initialized/formatted

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What it comes down to is this: Switch carts are either read-only, or they're not. And hey, I'm no tech guy, so maybe some data can be written to the cart, in which case i'll gladly eat all my words. But every single reputable source of information on Switch carts (especially thinking of DF) has, since the very first Switch leaks, constantly stated as fact that Switch carts are read only.

If this is true, and it seems 99% sure that it is, then it is impossible to prevent carts from running on a formatted Switch which isn't connected to the internet- unless the patch data is somehow linked to which firmware the Switch is running, in which case it would be much more complicated. But still has nothing to do with the game cart.

 

[Pokemaniac]

The main reason for doing this is so you don't shoot yourself in the foot with save files. Most games aren't going to bother making sure save files from later versions work properly on earlier ones.

The secondary reason for this is probably to prevent people from uninstalling patches that fix security bugs.

Don't think it's written to the cart, though. I don't think there's been any indication that Switch carts have any writable memory of any kind.

 

[Vito]

Well yeah, that's how it's supposed to work. I'm very glad Nintendo is doing it that way.

If in the future the servers for down you either already have the patch (if you deleted it, then it's entirely your fault) or you never downloaded it. Neither of those possibilities will cause problems.

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What if your system breaks?

This is just plan dumb.

 

[Atheerios]

What if your system breaks?

This is just plan dumb.

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If your system breaks then you just buy a new Switch and play your cart. It won't force you to update it as it doesn't know the update exist. Carts are read only.

This is no big deal, in fact this is not a real deal at all.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It's related to the save file. Once your save file contains data requiring the patch/DLC, it becomes incompatible with the original version of the game. You see this often on PS4 games if you transfer saves between systems with different DLC on them. It has nothing to do with the physical cart itself.

 

[Vito]

It's related to the save file. Once your save file contains data requiring the patch/DLC, it becomes incompatible with the original version of the game. You see this often on PS4 games if you transfer saves between systems with different DLC on them. It has nothing to do with the physical cart itself.

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People already confirmed it's not the save file.

 

[Daedardus]

Pretty sure it's just because your save is incompatible with the older version. If you'd delete the save the card should work again.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

People already confirmed it's not the save file.

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Were they connected to the internet? The system pings the servers to check for a patch when you launch a game.

 

[Council Pop]

People already confirmed it's not the save file.

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It's game data saved to the Switch itself which still exists even if you archive the game and delete the save file.

 

[Weltall Zero]

If in the future the servers for down you either already have the patch (if you deleted it, then it's entirely your fault) or you never downloaded it. Neither of those possibilities will cause problems.

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"Deleting a patch makes game unplayable" -> "Entirely your fault".
When consumers shill for companies harder than the companies themselves.

It's game data saved to the Switch itself which still exists even if you archive the game and delete the save file.

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Which there is zero reason for. The only reason not to allow a game to go back to a previous version is to prevent potential corruption of save data if it has changed formats between versions (as games can typically "version up" savedata, but not "version down"). If you deleted the save data this isn't even possible, especially considering that (thanks Nintendo) you can't even back it up.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

What it comes down to is this: Switch carts are either read-only, or they're not. And hey, I'm no tech guy, so maybe some data can be written to the cart, in which case i'll gladly eat all my words. But every single reputable source of information on Switch carts (especially thinking of DF) has, since the very first Switch leaks, constantly stated as fact that Switch carts are read only.

If this is true, and it seems 99% sure that it is, then it is impossible to prevent carts from running on a formatted Switch which isn't connected to the internet- unless the patch data is somehow linked to which firmware the Switch is running, in which case it would be much more complicated. But still has nothing to do with the game cart.

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Yeah the carts are read only, though I'm wondering if the Switch holds on to some information related to how the cart has been used even if you format the system.

Ultimately though, there's no way to make a Switch cart completely unusable, short of causing physical damage to it, of course.