There is a bunch more stuff about the game posted on their twitter page. More gifs, artwork etc.
Just use one of the twitter links I posted. Its from the developers.
Pick one: pixelated jittery PS1 look or N64 vomit looking textures?
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Just use one of the twitter links I posted. Its from the developers.
I hate 3D graphics on the PS1 beause that console can't even properly calculate how textures need to be drawn in a 3D space. Also there's no sub pixel calculation so pixels just snap to the nearest one all the time. The textures were equally low res as the N64 the only difference is they weren't filtered which doesn't bother me at all on the N64.
PS1 textures could go as high as 256x256 but were generally 128x128, N64 textures because of it's tiny texture cache were half that.
Yes, those games I just showed are beyond what the PS1 could've handled. That's exactly the point I was trying to prove.
You don't believe that N64 could have pulled off a PS1-caliber port of any 2D fighting game?
If we were talking Saturn with 4MB ram expansion, you might have a point. I actually have no idea if the N64 could've handled that.
But, the PS1 2D fighting games were compromised ports.
If the N64 had discs, it could've done a lot more of everything - and that's a shame.
The classic N64 games wouldn't have been the same on discs, though - so swings and roundabouts!
There's no way PS1 was running NBA Hangtime at the same graphical level as the N64.
Let alone Yoshi's Story. It's just not happening.
Wonder Project J2 is absolutely more technically advanced than the generally still-frame images of Tokimeki Memorial 2. N64 absolutely could've handled that, and more so.
Yeah, Silhouette Mirage has a better overall art direction than the weird pre-rendered style of Mischief Makers.
But, those Mischief Maker boss levels....oof.
And yes, PS1 has a better overall 2D library. Which is a shame, because as I just showed, N64 was more than capable to handle 2D games.
But, goodness knows I, nor any of my peers, cared about 2D games around that time. 3D was new, flashy and cutting edge - all 2D games seemed like a bygone era at the time...unfortunately.
I actually listed LESS of what I could've with N64 games I still consider playable (Mario Tennis AND Gold, Blast Corps (kinda janky to play these days, but..), Excitebike 64, Space Station Silicon Valley, Conker's Bad Fur Day, AND Goemon's Great Adventure for starters!).
AND I was actually having trouble finding more games to list for PS1 that either:
1) are still playable (most action sports games/sports games in general were important at the time, but have since been greatly superseded in quality) or
2) were better than or equal to another game of the same genre on that list (tons of JRPGs are still missing...but few are better than the two on the list already - FF Tactics and Suikoden II...and Valkyrie Profile?) or
3) didn't have a superior console port elsewhere that generation (many arcade and 2D games on Saturn).
I think the only games I could add that fit that criteria are: Omega Boost, Intelligent Qube, Mega Man Legends 2 or Tron Bonne, Odd World series, Namco Lightgun games, and...maybe Brave Fencer Musashi or Alundra?
To be sure, there are more fun games on PS1 out there than that, but none that could fit in the top ranking games of the generation.
My main two goals with all my posts thus far is to point out that:
- many (most?) N64 games don't look nearly as bad as modern internet opinions make it out to be - it's become a meme of sorts "lol n64 is vaseline graphics"
- N64 has far more playable games than pretty much everybody (including myself) remembers
Yes, PS1 has a lot of great games that still play well...but so does the N64.
Ah...that explains some stuff about the graphics, then.
Was Sin and Punishment really using that limited of a texture cache? It generally looks just as good if not better than most character models and environments on the PS1 at the time...
I'll never forget my friend telling me I had to come over after school one day so they could show me the magazine he got with these screenshots in it of a game that looks fucking real. We were just blown away by the graphics and the idea of a game with full voice acting. Shit was crazy.
Metal Gear was incredibly impressive at the time.
The 3D graphics in that game were as good as many of the better N64 games.
Yeah, Sin and Punishment is a fantastic looking game - but look at the environment textures and you'll see they're still pretty muddy. Just wasn't the console's strong suit.
Poor Xenogears. :(
Poor Final Fantasy VIII :(
Poor Final Fantasy IX :(
Poor Parasite Eve :(
Poor Legend of Mana (Getting a new release in 2021) :(
Poor SaGa Frontier (Getting a new release in 2021) :(
As you said though it's all subjective at the end of the day. If we went only by ratings then a game like Nier wouldn't be so beloved and getting a remaster, even if I feel they are remastering the wrong version. Prefer Big Daddy Nier all day.
You can actually disable the dithering for some ps1 games on real hardware, but if you do it for 3D games I hope you like banding and posterization.
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I mean, compromised ports that still look very good, especially considering the kinds of compromises we had for arcade games in the previous generation, is still better than... having zero. there is a popular misnomer, i feel, that some of the Playstation ports are inherently worse than Saturn ones. I don't recall the Parodius/Gradius/Salamander compilations being very different between the two consoles. The Capcom Generations compilations were mostly identical iirc. Furthermore, on the subject of shmups (a genre that both the Saturn and PS1 excel at-- something the N64 cannot compare to), Donpachi and Dodonpachi are actually better ports on PS1 than the Saturn ones.
Interesting discussion, I love both systems for designing around their hardware limits, there are some ingenious techniques used and, ironically, the best 3d games lent on the knowledge the 2d masters learned during the golden age of pixel art, like this example from Vagrant's Art Director:
Since the N64 seems to be the underdog here I have shots from the worst CRT I own, it has a low TVL and uses a slot mask, slot mask being typical of most consumer CRTs that are not a Sony Trinitron. Personally, I don't like what the HDMI solutions look like on flat panels, they don't manipulate the video signal as a CRT does and the N64 leans heavily (as does PSX/SS) into what a CRT will do to a picture (things like diminishing dithering to a degree, masking low colour depth, phosphor size variation altering an edge or pixel depending on brightness values etc). I'm sure people are hooking up their N64s via composite or some composite to HDMI adapter and letting their flat panel scale the fuck out of it with reckless abandon. If you ever get the chance to see an N64 running in S-Video or via modded RGB on a CRT I'm sure you'll be surprised at how much better it looks than you might have remembered or led to believe.
Unfortunately photographing a CRT is tricky
Mega's S-Video shots from a stock N64 on a slot mask monitor are really great, the TVL is similar or higher I believe than the screen I'm using but still lower than professional CRT monitors:
I think the PSX has a better range and would be my choice if I had to pick one. Designing around the N64's texture budget is tough, textures are very 'soupy' and it doesn't lend itself well to realism as the PSX does and the latter games did well to hide limitations like draw distance and texture wobble something the N64 excelled at. I am grateful for both, and the N64s signature look is really quite cool; seeing how Dinosaur Planet articulated its version of the Starfox Adventure environments in the DF Retro video really made me appreciate the look more, there's something about the vagueness that gives it a certain atmosphere.
Since the N64 seems to be the underdog here I have shots from the worst CRT I own, it has a low TVL and uses a slot mask, slot mask being typical of most consumer CRTs that are not a Sony Trinitron. Personally, I don't like what the HDMI solutions look like on flat panels, they don't manipulate the video signal as a CRT does and the N64 leans heavily (as does PSX/SS) into what a CRT will do to a picture (things like diminishing dithering to a degree, masking low colour depth, phosphor size variation altering an edge or pixel depending on brightness values etc). I'm sure people are hooking up their N64s via composite or some composite to HDMI adapter and letting their flat panel scale the fuck out of it with reckless abandon. If you ever get the chance to see an N64 running in S-Video or via modded RGB on a CRT I'm sure you'll be surprised at how much better it looks than you might have remembered or led to believe.
Unfortunately photographing a CRT is tricky
Mega's S-Video shots from a stock N64 on a slot mask monitor are really great, the TVL is similar or higher I believe than the screen I'm using but still lower than professional CRT monitors:
I think the PSX has a better range and would be my choice if I had to pick one. Designing around the N64's texture budget is tough, textures are very 'soupy' and it doesn't lend itself well to realism as the PSX does and the latter games did well to hide limitations like draw distance and texture wobble something the N64 excelled at. I am grateful for both, and the N64s signature look is really quite cool; seeing how Dinosaur Planet articulated its version of the Starfox Adventure environments in the DF Retro video really made me appreciate the look more, there's something about the vagueness that gives it a certain atmosphere.
I noticed but never really cared much about the warped textures on PS1. But even as a kid I felt like there was something wrong with the N64 visuals, some kind of blurriness. So PS1 all the way for me. Even playing on emulators nowadays I keep the warped textures if possible, they're part of the charm and nostalgia.
Sorry just been having a lazy day, so im gonna keep it short. Sure if you're only gonna focus on the absolute top tier games N64 can compete but the B tier library is always essential imo and the N64 is weak in that regard but the ps1 is not far behind the PS2 to put it in context. But f--- it, sorry just extra lazy today so ill end it with this...
LOL but can you do ray tracing on the N64?...
F----- owned
Great post.Interesting discussion, I love both systems for designing around their hardware limits, there are some ingenious techniques used and, ironically, the best 3d games lent on the knowledge the 2d masters learned during the golden age of pixel art, like this example from Vagrant's Art Director:
Since the N64 seems to be the underdog here I have shots from the worst CRT I own, it has a low TVL and uses a slot mask, slot mask being typical of most consumer CRTs that are not a Sony Trinitron. Personally, I don't like what the HDMI solutions look like on flat panels, they don't manipulate the video signal as a CRT does and the N64 leans heavily (as does PSX/SS) into what a CRT will do to a picture (things like diminishing dithering to a degree, masking low colour depth, phosphor size variation altering an edge or pixel depending on brightness values etc). I'm sure people are hooking up their N64s via composite or some composite to HDMI adapter and letting their flat panel scale the fuck out of it with reckless abandon. If you ever get the chance to see an N64 running in S-Video or via modded RGB on a CRT I'm sure you'll be surprised at how much better it looks than you might have remembered or led to believe.
Unfortunately photographing a CRT is tricky
Mega's S-Video shots from a stock N64 on a slot mask monitor are really great, the TVL is similar or higher I believe than the screen I'm using but still lower than professional CRT monitors:
I think the PSX has a better range and would be my choice if I had to pick one. Designing around the N64's texture budget is tough, textures are very 'soupy' and it doesn't lend itself well to realism as the PSX does and the latter games did well to hide limitations like draw distance and texture wobble something the N64 excelled at. I am grateful for both, and the N64s signature look is really quite cool; seeing how Dinosaur Planet articulated its version of the Starfox Adventure environments in the DF Retro video really made me appreciate the look more, there's something about the vagueness that gives it a certain atmosphere.
if we're strictly speaking about what broad flaws we prefer dealing with, I think I have to hand it to the N64. I think the best looking PS1 games utilized its technical limits to great results (vagrant story, mega man legends, mgs, etc) and look better than most of the best looking N64 games, but I think on a pure baseline level I like that N64 games don't have jittery textures and seams and so on.
the highs are higher for me on PS1, but that's not what this thread is asking I don't think.
the highs are higher for me on PS1, but that's not what this thread is asking I don't think.
Hey, I'm not about to get into a war about what the top two JRPGs are!
My original point was - as a kid, you generally didn't have more than 10-20 games - so which ones give you the best bang for your buck. I chose Vagrant Story, as it seems pretty acclaimed If you wanted (or had!) 10 JRPGs, as you very well could've done on PS1, then yes, you may include those.
Yeah, 2D shmups are kind of a toss-up on that front, but most people, for whatever reason, seem to prefer Saturn over the other ports.
I do it, simply because I know that there's a better chance of it being better on the Saturn than PS1. Stated more bluntly, PS1 almost never outperformed the Saturn when it came to 2D (other than DonPachi/DDP and SOTN), so I figure go with the control group.
Although, I seem to recall the PS1 screen resolutions being more friendly for certain ports than the Saturn...I know for the Capcom Generations ports, it's true.
The DonPachi series being worse on the Saturn has always puzzled me - it's a very minor difference, but still...
I actually own DonPachi on PS1 and DoDonPachi on Saturn.
Sorry just been having a lazy day, so im gonna keep it short. Sure if you're only gonna focus on the absolute top tier games N64 can compete but the B tier library is always essential imo and the N64 is weak in that regard but the ps1 is not far behind the PS2 to put it in context. But f--- it, sorry just extra lazy today so ill end it with this...
LOL but can you do ray tracing on the N64?...
F----- owned
Yep. There I would agree - B-tier is where both the PS1 and PS2 take off past the competition in their respective generations. Just an absurd amount of those types of games.
I generally only had money for a few B-tier titles growing up, so it never really mattered to me - and I generally preferred the Nintendo exclusives over the competition, so they got my money.
I have no regrets - now that I'm old and have more money, I can collect what I missed when I was young on other consoles....and I still would've chosen the same consoles I had as a young one. Nintendo still had some killer B-tier exclusives, certainly enough to fill out a game library back then.
Really? Majoras Mask, Conker? Granted, late releases but id say theres plenty of pretty nice looking N64 games.
Most of Rares are nice and not all of those have low frame rates.
Interesting discussion, I love both systems for designing around their hardware limits, there are some ingenious techniques used and, ironically, the best 3d games lent on the knowledge the 2d masters learned during the golden age of pixel art, like this example from Vagrant's Art Director:
Since the N64 seems to be the underdog here I have shots from the worst CRT I own, it has a low TVL and uses a slot mask, slot mask being typical of most consumer CRTs that are not a Sony Trinitron. Personally, I don't like what the HDMI solutions look like on flat panels, they don't manipulate the video signal as a CRT does and the N64 leans heavily (as does PSX/SS) into what a CRT will do to a picture (things like diminishing dithering to a degree, masking low colour depth, phosphor size variation altering an edge or pixel depending on brightness values etc). I'm sure people are hooking up their N64s via composite or some composite to HDMI adapter and letting their flat panel scale the fuck out of it with reckless abandon. If you ever get the chance to see an N64 running in S-Video or via modded RGB on a CRT I'm sure you'll be surprised at how much better it looks than you might have remembered or led to believe.
Unfortunately photographing a CRT is tricky
Mega's S-Video shots from a stock N64 on a slot mask monitor are really great, the TVL is similar or higher I believe than the screen I'm using but still lower than professional CRT monitors:
I think the PSX has a better range and would be my choice if I had to pick one. Designing around the N64's texture budget is tough, textures are very 'soupy' and it doesn't lend itself well to realism as the PSX does and the latter games did well to hide limitations like draw distance and texture wobble something the N64 excelled at. I am grateful for both, and the N64s signature look is really quite cool; seeing how Dinosaur Planet articulated its version of the Starfox Adventure environments in the DF Retro video really made me appreciate the look more, there's something about the vagueness that gives it a certain atmosphere.
This is porn to me
I voted PS1, but I don't think it's a slam dunk. The limitations of both were generally front and center. I think PS1 devs had more options to work around those limits, but really you had to design your games that way.
I actually have a N64 with 8 games connected to a TV, for kids to play with, so I can fire it up at any time to refresh my memory.
I never owned a PS1 but I always found those graphics better than the blurry mess that N64 produced. It was fun for multiplayer, but I remember not bothering with Mario 64 because I found it too blurry. A few years later I played it a little on PC (without the blur), and then when I went back to the N64 it was like wow, it's worse than I remember.
I never owned a PS1 but I always found those graphics better than the blurry mess that N64 produced. It was fun for multiplayer, but I remember not bothering with Mario 64 because I found it too blurry. A few years later I played it a little on PC (without the blur), and then when I went back to the N64 it was like wow, it's worse than I remember.
I think this is true, and off topic but I had a hard time narrowing my N64 collection down to anything less than 40, and I was really trying to keep it condensed and playable with an even mix of genres. Grab any of these and you're in for a good time.
Didn't own either growing up and I have no nostalgia for them. In checking out both catalogues over the last few years though, PS1. I feel like that console is loaded with great looking games - very distinctive aesthetic with a lot of detail and a lot of games have a cohesive style. I like the noise the jittering adds in most cases too.
N64 has a few highlights but most games look comically minimalist.
N64 has a few highlights but most games look comically minimalist.
I had a N64 back then, and even as a kid I saw the issues. I had lots of fun playing the more popular games, but I ended up selling the system during a time when nothing interesting was coming out for it. I spent that money on a 3dfx card. I also didn't like the way PS1 games looked, however, so I'm having a hard time deciding what to answer in the poll. I think it took the DC to advance graphics in the console space to a level where I thought it was acceptable (good, even).
PS1 for sure, but I do miss when each generation of consoles had more distinct differences beyond pure power.
Despite my dislike for graphics during that time, I think the above screenshots from the slot mask CRT are amazing. I need to figure out if there's a way to get a RetroArch shader to emulate that look properly.Interesting discussion, I love both systems for designing around their hardware limits, there are some ingenious techniques used and, ironically, the best 3d games lent on the knowledge the 2d masters learned during the golden age of pixel art, like this example from Vagrant's Art Director:
Since the N64 seems to be the underdog here I have shots from the worst CRT I own, it has a low TVL and uses a slot mask, slot mask being typical of most consumer CRTs that are not a Sony Trinitron. Personally, I don't like what the HDMI solutions look like on flat panels, they don't manipulate the video signal as a CRT does and the N64 leans heavily (as does PSX/SS) into what a CRT will do to a picture (things like diminishing dithering to a degree, masking low colour depth, phosphor size variation altering an edge or pixel depending on brightness values etc). I'm sure people are hooking up their N64s via composite or some composite to HDMI adapter and letting their flat panel scale the fuck out of it with reckless abandon. If you ever get the chance to see an N64 running in S-Video or via modded RGB on a CRT I'm sure you'll be surprised at how much better it looks than you might have remembered or led to believe.
Unfortunately photographing a CRT is tricky
Mega's S-Video shots from a stock N64 on a slot mask monitor are really great, the TVL is similar or higher I believe than the screen I'm using but still lower than professional CRT monitors:
I think the PSX has a better range and would be my choice if I had to pick one. Designing around the N64's texture budget is tough, textures are very 'soupy' and it doesn't lend itself well to realism as the PSX does and the latter games did well to hide limitations like draw distance and texture wobble something the N64 excelled at. I am grateful for both, and the N64s signature look is really quite cool; seeing how Dinosaur Planet articulated its version of the Starfox Adventure environments in the DF Retro video really made me appreciate the look more, there's something about the vagueness that gives it a certain atmosphere.
Either some of you are letting your Playstation homerism affect your vote or I'm crazy because this should be N64 and it should not be close. This is coming form a person who considers the Playstation 1 to be their favorite video game system of all time. I loved the PS1! Despite that, I was always jealous of the solid 3D visuals of N64 games. The visuals on that system gave it's games this tangible sense of place while on the PS1, many games just gave you the impression that wiggly textures are being wrapped around these polygons. The groundbreaking franchises and diversity in games made the PS1 the better system overall but it sure as well wasn't the graphics.
I don't find the textures of the N64 to look "good". PSX just looks crispy and the wobble adds actually adds to the aesthetic.
Heck there are some indie games out there trying to replicate the look. Just like pixel art might not be for everyone, there are still people who like that kind of look.
I'm laughing at the posts trying to use Legacy of Kain as an example of strong PSX graphical performance. Shit was rough AF. Vagrant Story is a much better example of what the system could do near the end of its life when the best developers had squeezed out every last drop of performance.
PSX in screenshots, N64 in motion is my answer. Nothing on PSX could stand up next to SM64 for performance or Animal Forest for clean, beautiful 3D environments. But on the other hand nothing on N64 had the densely detailed 3D environments of MGS or Vagrant Story. PSX could also use pre-rendered assets much more liberally than N64 but I don't think that's exactly in the spirit of what OP is asking.
PSX in screenshots, N64 in motion is my answer. Nothing on PSX could stand up next to SM64 for performance or Animal Forest for clean, beautiful 3D environments. But on the other hand nothing on N64 had the densely detailed 3D environments of MGS or Vagrant Story. PSX could also use pre-rendered assets much more liberally than N64 but I don't think that's exactly in the spirit of what OP is asking.
Sorry, should have specified i meant from a more technical level.
Theres a few N64 games that really look great from an artstyle perspective, but i think alot more PS1 games hold up in comparison in terms of textures and overall just general geometry and amount of objects on screen.
Its no knock against either really.
They each have their trade offs. N64 has higher highs (in some cases, much higher) to me. But PS1 has more consistent quality in terms of graphics throughout its library.
N64 definitely has my preferred look that gen. By a long shot. Especially on a CRT.
N64 definitely has my preferred look that gen. By a long shot. Especially on a CRT.
I don't know man. I played my PS1 non-stop that generation and played all of the big games and I had some epic "system wars" arguments with my cousin who lived down the street who had an N64 but when the topic of graphics came up I just shut up because nothing I was playing looked as good as the Banjo Games, Zelda, Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong 64 (besides 2D and prerendered stuff). It wasn't even an argument to me back then. I was like fine Enjoy your superior graphics on your 1 good game every few months. If there was an argument to be made I would have made it. With that said, age might have changed the equation a bit as my playing of PS1/N64 games has been rather limited since that generation ended.
That's fair but I personally never liked the way the N64 looks.
Like looking at the games, I would rather look at MGS1 or Ridge Racer R4, RE3 than Super Mario 64 or Banjo. That's how I felt back in the day. They were crisp and in some cases the "wobble" added to the atmosphere of the games. MGS1 or RE for example made things like the character models feel more "expressive" (a good one is the spiders in RE where they look more sureal due to the way they are rendered).
At the end of the day I can see why some people might like the more "solid" look of the 64 but I personally never thought it looked good due to the textures and the less detail.
