There have never been two consoles this close in perf.
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No or little need for redundant files. File size shouldn't explode
I would like some clarity on if Sony's specific storage and controller design will fundamentally change how games are developed, or is it the fact that an NVMe SSD is being standardized the fundamental shift? From the outside looking in, It's not obvious to me how Sony's storage solution is fundamentally different/better than what Microsoft's offering in the Series X, other than the raw I/O performance. I guess the real question is, can a first-party studio develop a game whose fundamental design prevents it from being able to be ported to the Series X?
On the Series X side of things, I'll very interested in seeing if any developers will opt to develop their titles with SMT off in mind, so they can get the full 3.8 GHz clock speed. Also, doesn't the Series X have bespoke audio processing hardware as well?
Overall, I'm still hyped for next-gen. Both consoles are looking look a great leap over current-gen. I'm still curious about RT performance between both consoles though.
anexanhume, after watching this deep dive, you still think Sony has any involvement with LocalRay and PS5?
On the Series X side of things, I'll very interested in seeing if any developers will opt to develop their titles with SMT off in mind, so they can get the full 3.8 GHz clock speed. Also, doesn't the Series X have bespoke audio processing hardware as well?
Overall, I'm still hyped for next-gen. Both consoles are looking look a great leap over current-gen. I'm still curious about RT performance between both consoles though.
anexanhume, after watching this deep dive, you still think Sony has any involvement with LocalRay and PS5?
You'd think that Microsoft's Xbox One reveal would always serve as a warning from history: you don't reveal a game machine without games.
Mistakes were, and are, being made there.
Well I like the sounds of what I'm hearing
but a question that has probably been answered. Cerny went on about how TF numbers and CU don't tell the full tale. Just how much real world performance will their SSD solution do to bridge the small gap in power to the XSX? It sounded like he was very confident in that, and I guess no one would really know, butwas it all PR or is their real merit to it?
but a question that has probably been answered. Cerny went on about how TF numbers and CU don't tell the full tale. Just how much real world performance will their SSD solution do to bridge the small gap in power to the XSX? It sounded like he was very confident in that, and I guess no one would really know, butwas it all PR or is their real merit to it?
They said this was intended as a GDC presentation and it definitely came off like that kindof talk. Definitely not something tailored at all for a mass market.
It's less. WAY less. Don't concern trolls fool you.
The "power" difference between PS5 and Series X is even lower than the one between the OG PS4 and the Xbox One.
Repeated for emphasis.
I think it's more likely than MS at least.
I'm gonna miss the speculation threads, even if they did get kinda crazy at times.
I think Sony going to come out of this fine, but their handling of the PS5 messaging has been pretty poor IMO. Nothing about what they announced is "bad" for me, I'm still excited about next gen for both platforms. But the release of the logo, long silence then this deep dive seems like a real misunderstanding of the audience and situation we are currently in by Sony.
I think Sony going to come out of this fine, but their handling of the PS5 messaging has been pretty poor IMO. Nothing about what they announced is "bad" for me, I'm still excited about next gen for both platforms. But the release of the logo, long silence then this deep dive seems like a real misunderstanding of the audience and situation we are currently in by Sony.
Well, the whining moaning is not uncalled for.
Sony is clearly losing touch with its core audience. The very people that would buy the system in its first year, the very people that would spearhead their word of mouth marketing. And this is what they hose to do lol.
Notice there isn't a lot of whining about the actual spec. Its great, especially if it ends up being cheaper than the XSX. Sony's approach with this reveal seems half-assed and indifferent. And that's the reaction its pulling from people. You pool 700k people to wat something then give the absolutely nothing to talk about?
Who in God's name thought that was a good idea. At least MS had everyone talking about TV back in 2013.
It honestly feels like the SSD tech in the PS5 is going to lead to the biggest leap in game design we've seen since the transition from 2D to 3D.
I can't speak for anybody else, but this is the exact kind of architecture I was saying would truly satisfy me. If someone came to me and asked if I wanted to give up a bit of pixel-pushing for the fastest drive I would take it without hesitation.
In my opinion, ultra fast drive speeds like the PS5 one are the true generational game changing technology. Series X is pretty good as well. However, the PS5 one is like a dream come true and I can't wait to see how it translates to everything from game design to lightning fast OS features.
In my opinion, ultra fast drive speeds like the PS5 one are the true generational game changing technology. Series X is pretty good as well. However, the PS5 one is like a dream come true and I can't wait to see how it translates to everything from game design to lightning fast OS features.
In the end, those 13TF rumors are backlashing at Sony.
I really don't understand why they kept silent so long. It was an understandable strategy if they knew they had the upper hand, but it's pretty clear now that they know since at least VGA it's not the case. So people believed wet dreams until now, for a really bad presentation.
Why this strategy ? Most people won't care about performance in the end, but even so, why wait so long for a presentation like this ? I probably will never understand.
I really don't understand why they kept silent so long. It was an understandable strategy if they knew they had the upper hand, but it's pretty clear now that they know since at least VGA it's not the case. So people believed wet dreams until now, for a really bad presentation.
Why this strategy ? Most people won't care about performance in the end, but even so, why wait so long for a presentation like this ? I probably will never understand.
Can you give a good example of what benefit those cache scrubbers will bring? I know that's one of the things Cerny highlighted as being custom to the PS5 and not part of RDNA2.
Sony's messaging overall has been shitty these past couple of years. What the fuck is happening?
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited as hell for the PS5! But where's that Sony hype? They're just so boring right now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited as hell for the PS5! But where's that Sony hype? They're just so boring right now.
All they had to do was make something more for consumer first, like MS just showing the box and controller. This was indeed interesting and I have no reason to doubt Cerny's decisions. Still, I find, just like the Switch, hardcore reactions are not good barometers to how the overall audience will embrace a product. People are scared for their lives right now, not really worried about video games. This is as good a time as any to make some PR blunders. Hell, I'm sure a lot of these timings are because of Corona.
Having said all that, I'm looking forward to DF breakdowns and more hands on with Sony's secret sauce.
I clearly mentioned that in the old thread that it was always considered a poor way to design a console. It didn't just come from me. That was a near unanimous consensus.
I was corrected on the 10 tflops figure and i even edited my post. I just don't see how you can design a console with the same thermal footprint and still come out 20% under your direct competitor.
I also mentioned other parts that are just as expensive. You ignored my point about virtually everything being worse and for ssd speed. Even the ssd size. So please do discuss the content of my post and tell me How do they launch this thing for $399?
To me this is a $499 console that they will be forced to sell for $449 now that they have come under every spec aside from ssd.
Yes it sounds incredible and also about ram cache. On my second listen to the talk a lot of this really sunk in.
This SSD is next gen. It will be tangible gains.
I just can't get over how bonkers the design of the GPU portion is with zero upside, and in fact many downsides. It won't run cooler, have better yields, BC isn't flawless, it's still weaker, has to down clock, is bandwidth limited, less RT performance, etc. Cerny missed the mark by a mile on this one.
I'm hyped for TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima, two potential GOTY's.
Have any ideas as to how they could use the LocalRay tech? In current RT capable gpu designs (ie Turing), is the BVH structure the intersection test is done on built in software, or is the BVH construction done directly in GPU hardware? I believe the main innovation of of LocalRay was the acceleration structure itself, in that it can account for dyanmic objects without needing to be rebuilt ever frame, which ultimately saves a lot of performance. If current BVH structures are constructed in software, then I can see the Local Ray solution being a drop in replacement.
Are you a developer working on a title for the console? Can you elaborate on these statements with tangible real world examples, so I can be better equipped to speak about them?
Makes me wonder how multiplatform titles will be handled. The PS5's SSD tech is unique and double the bandwidth of the Xbox Series X, and PCs can't be counted on for having a SSD or having a fast NVMe drive if one does have a SSD. So last gen limitations might still be in place for multiplatform support, and it could mean that PS5 exclusives wont ever be ported to PC "years later" (H:ZD) because PCs wont have the same IO setup.
I think the Coronavirus outbreak really threw a wrench on their plans. However, that's not much of an excuse. MS is working under the same conditions and is doing a much, much better job presenting the Series X to the world.
Did they say anything about PS4 BC? I thought before it'd basically function as a PS4 Pro, is that correct?
I've been holding off playing some more graphically intensive games on my base PS4.
I've been holding off playing some more graphically intensive games on my base PS4.
I am too, but c'mon, we've known about those games for 3 years now. I want more than a spec sheet and some games I've been hyped for for half the generation.
Sure pal. I already know your shtick. Not falling for it.
It hasn't been the same since Andrew House left Sony a few years ago. Jim Ryan now runs the House of PlayStation, and it shows.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, Matt, Shinobi and Jason are the best when it comes to these things. But at the time, i must admit, i read it Matt post in a different way.
I think it's safe to say that the SSD was the secret sauce that makes the PS5 "the most exciting hardware in 20 years."
He said that the GPU caches flush when they do a read from the SSD. That's several megabytes of memory clearing out. The scrubber works like an invalidation or "dirty" bit. It's a very common concept in CPU cache design. As to what improvements it could bring, that's going to be workload dependent. We're talking single digit performance gains most likely. They're just snooping the addresses affected so they know which lines to evict.
AFAIK, the BVH are built in software and the intersection testing happens in the hardware. Speeding up construction may help, but if intersection was the bottleneck to begin with, you're only helping if construction was severely taxing your system. It will be interesting to see how the CPU's role evolves over time.
I also thought it was curious how Cerny centered in on 256-bit ALU operations on the CPU. Intel has to throttle their desktop parts when they have heavy AVX-512 workloads.
Depends, if they design around PS5s SSD then Xbox games will perform worse.
The question is: will third party developers design around PS5s setup?
1st part isngonna be hella amazing though.
You could make the argument that we are already seeing Sony's first party studios producing better looking games than MS's with a console much weaker at this very moment with the PS4 Pro vs the X.
Uncharted 4, Horizon, Spider-Man, Days Gone, Gran Turismo Sport, God of War, Days Gone and TLOU II running on the Pro all look better than anything outside of RDR II on the X imo and that's with a 40% GPU gap aswell as the X having 4GB's more of faster memory and a faster CPU.
The overall gap between Series X and PS5 is much smaller then you have the much faster SSD in Sony's favour too.
Hellblade II has set a very high early next gen marker for visuals though which is great for us all!
I mean, to be quite frank, there was a reason we did it the other way all this time. I wouldn't call this genius engineering. I get a feeling they simply shifted unpredictability away from thermal engineers and towards software devs.
I'm ashamed to say I laughed.
By the time you run out of space on your internal SSD, 1TB nvmes will be cheap and plentiful thanks to no proprietary format cartridge.
I agree that 3D audio being limited to headphones is disappointing. I spent money on a 5.1 system. I don't like headphones. On the other hand, they are the cheapest way to experience good audio, and will reach the broadest (filthy audio casuals) audience.
#undeniable_truth
It won't help with framerate.
It will slightly reduce loading times in 3rd party games compared to SeX.
1st party games will have less pop in and potentially cooler level design.
Exclusive developers like Playground and Ninja Theory will make the power gap more apparent.
9.2 vs 12 is bad and HUGE.
10.3 vs 12.1 is ok. It becomes good when you start looking at the other areas the PS5 actually excels at.
Look at 7200 rpm drives. The move to 2.4gbs is enough for a complete paradigm shift
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