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Arn

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,888
Whilst I think the GaaS conspiracies are not what's happening here - because those are the games Bungie has made in the past and will continue to make in the future, irrespective of Sony's overarching strategic direction - I can see where the speculation has come from.

You've got Sony's most high-profile GaaS title being delayed indefinitely or outright cancelled, you've got the man who spearheaded the pivot to service games leaving the business and you've then got PlayStation Studios' most prominent service game developer making significant layoffs. Throw in some wishful thinking given that it's a strategy which most people aren't excited for, and that's the perfect breeding ground for one plus one equals three.

But yes, this is most likely just cost-cutting, fat-trimming and making the studio more profitable for PlayStation and shareholders after a few years of headcount growth during the pandemic. It's gross and I hope all PlayStation Studios developers get to unionise.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,744
I still think we should celebrate the hard and excellent work developers put in to give us all these memorable game experiences. All the shitty business practices don't diminish their hard work.
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,876
It happens all the time. I still remember when Grubb reported that Kojima was working on an Xbox game. The narrative then spring up that Death Stranding didn't do that well and Jim Ryan didn't want to work with Kojima again because they were turning from Japanese projects. And in the end it never occurred to people that he was also doing Death Stranding 2 :p

People out two unrelated things together and make something out of it.

Millions of copies of Death Stranding in landfill.
 

Bopp

Member
Aug 6, 2021
1,485
Just chimin' in to say that I got a ticket to see Nothing but Thieves live next year.
CANNOT FREAKING WAIT!

Well...what are ya'll playing this Halloween? I hate horror games so I'm gonna go with Honkai: Star Rail (obviously) and maybe Yakuza 6 :p
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,702
Yeah, I'm really disappointed with almost all of the news we're getting out of PlayStation lately.

Has Firesprite had layoffs too?

Honestly, given the rate of new hires Firesprite have had over the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of layoffs given that Call Of The Mountain wasn't exactly a big hit (Nor PSVR2, it was released far too soon).

It does seem like this year has been nothing but bad news for internal PS stuff, outside of Insomniac belting out another great hit. Now, if Insomniac get affected by layoffs I hope all the studios freaking riot as no one is safe no matter how good they are or how successful their game is.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,725
I'm finding myself in quite an interesting position when it comes to Sony PlayStation:

On one hand, it feels like the news coming out of the PS camp this year has been shitty on so many levels, and my long-term level of confidence in the company is very low. On the other hand, I'm absolutely swimming in great games with a backlog that's honestly overflowing, so I ask myself: "does it actually matter if I have no clue about upcoming first-party stuff or that I have extremely low confidence in SIE?"

Don't have any straight answer on that question, and my personal answer to that is probably absurdly colored by the negative news cycles that tend to rack up the most engagement on enthusiast forums such as ResetEra. Regardless, it's safe to say there's a complete lack of visible/established direction for SIE now that Spider-Man 2 has been released.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
3,015
Honestly, given the rate of new hires Firesprite have had over the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of layoffs given that Call Of The Mountain wasn't exactly a big hit (Nor PSVR2, it was released far too soon).

It does seem like this year has been nothing but bad news for internal PS stuff, outside of Insomniac belting out another great hit. Now, if Insomniac get affected by layoffs I hope all the studios freaking riot as no one is safe no matter how good they are or how successful their game is.
What's the point of a riot?! Layoffs will always happen.
No studio (or company) is safe. A successful project does not guarantee anything. As long as our economic system is based on constant growth (and bonuses for higher-ups tied to certain milestones), there will always be layoffs.
This is not a PlayStation thing. Or even a video game thing.
There have been layoffs throughout almost every industry. Tech, entertainment, food and so on.
 

Rikalaus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
836
The gaming news everyone was hyped about for the Apple thing

Screenshot_20231031_092753_YouTube.jpg



Now they showing the black Dualsense controler, not just the white one

Glad to see they used the best colour version of the Dualsense
 

Izanagi89

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,206
Yeah exactly. It drives me nuts how frequently Era likes to take bad industry news and connect it to some broader (usually self-serving) conspiracy theory. For the most part the boring, straightforward answer is the correct one. I think you're right on the money here.

This is true, but especially lately, I find it very hard to care about these kinds of conversations. People can say what they want, it's really inconsequential at the end of the day. Like you see people losing their jobs en masse and joeschmo100 's hot take is really just a speck in the ocean
 
Jul 2, 2021
16,930
Has Firesprite had layoffs too?
Honestly, given the rate of new hires Firesprite have had over the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of layoffs given that Call Of The Mountain wasn't exactly a big hit (Nor PSVR2, it was released far too soon).
Just the current state of Firesprite according to what you can read online. You can hear stuff like:
- Management/leadership since Sony took over is awful. The last shipped project (Horizon VR?) was a nightmare to work with.
- The Sony acquisition has negatively impacted many departments. Since the acquisition they have lost over 100 employees and had Firesprite culture dismantled piece by piece. Sony implemented a hiring pause that put pressure on several teams and caused many staff to have complete burnout.
- Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes (after the Firesprite and Fabrik Games acquisition).
- People are afraid to even give input on their own work and disappear if they challenge the new studio heads.
- Understaffed projects that are often poorly managed.
- Projects in development hell.
- Chaotic production on almost every project. Resulting in wasted time and people running around like headless chickens crunching to get stuff in last minute. Lack of clear direction in many projects. Too many leads/directors (especially after the Sony acquisition). They bite off more than they can chew resulting in cancelled projects. All projects are understaffed resulting on a lot of people getting moved from project to project.
- Management and many employees have limited experience with Unreal Engine and a certain project is suffering as a result. Unlikely to ship.

Remember Pete Ellis? The former Naughty Dog dev who went to Firesprite to work as a game director for their narrative-driven horror game? He left this month.
The same goes for the lead designer who worked on Horizon Call of the Mountain. Gone.

Over 100 developers left since Sony bought them, game development is chaotic and projects are getting canceled. The Sony acquisition has had a negative impact on the culture and leadership. Before the acquisition there were pretty much only positive reviews on Glassdoor.
Doesn't sound good.
 
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Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,876
PS3 Era was alot bleaker than today so I'm not overly bothered. Going into financial calls thinking it would be the end of PlayStation was wild looking back.
 

War95

Member
Feb 17, 2021
4,470
Just the current state of Firesprite according to what you can read online. You can hear stuff like:
- Management/leadership since Sony took over is awful. The last shipped project Horizon VR?) was a nightmare to work with.
- The Sony acquisition has negatively impacted many departments. Since the acquisition they have lost over 100 employees and had Firesprite culture dismantled piece by piece. Sony implemented a hiring pause that put pressure on several teams and caused many staff to have complete burnout.
- Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes (after the Firesprite and Fabrik Games acquisition).
- People are afraid to even give input on their own work and disappear if they challenge the new studio heads.
- Understaffed projects that are often poorly managed.
- Projects in development hell.
- Chaotic production on almost every project. Resulting in wasted time and people running around like headless chickens crunching to get stuff in last minute. Lack of clear direction in many projects. Too many leads/directors (especially after the Sony acquisition). They bite off more than they can chew resulting in cancelled projects. All projects are understaffed resulting on a lot of people getting moved from project to project.
- Management and many employees have limited experience with Unreal Engine and a certain project is suffering as a result. Unlikely to ship.

Remember Pete Ellis? The former Naughty Dog dev who went to Firesprite to work as a game director for their narrative-driven horror game?
He left this month.

Over 100 developers left since Sony bought them, game development is chaotic and projects are getting canceled. The Sony acquisition has had a negative impact on the culture and leadership. Before the acquisition there were pretty much only positive reviews on Glassdoor.
Doesn't sound good.
I had no idea about this, damn
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
29,697
PS3 Era was alot bleaker than today so I'm not overly bothered. Going into financial calls thinking it would be the end of PlayStation was wild looking back.
Yeah, even tho I didnt pay too much attention to this type of news back then, when I did start paying attention it was wild.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,022
Just the current state of Firesprite according to what you can read online. You can hear stuff like:
- Management/leadership since Sony took over is awful. The last shipped project Horizon VR?) was a nightmare to work with.
- The Sony acquisition has negatively impacted many departments. Since the acquisition they have lost over 100 employees and had Firesprite culture dismantled piece by piece. Sony implemented a hiring pause that put pressure on several teams and caused many staff to have complete burnout.
- Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes (after the Firesprite and Fabrik Games acquisition).
- People are afraid to even give input on their own work and disappear if they challenge the new studio heads.
- Understaffed projects that are often poorly managed.
- Projects in development hell.
- Chaotic production on almost every project. Resulting in wasted time and people running around like headless chickens crunching to get stuff in last minute. Lack of clear direction in many projects. Too many leads/directors (especially after the Sony acquisition). They bite off more than they can chew resulting in cancelled projects. All projects are understaffed resulting on a lot of people getting moved from project to project.
- Management and many employees have limited experience with Unreal Engine and a certain project is suffering as a result. Unlikely to ship.

Remember Pete Ellis? The former Naughty Dog dev who went to Firesprite to work as a game director for their narrative-driven horror game? He left this month.

Over 100 developers left since Sony bought them, game development is chaotic and projects are getting canceled. The Sony acquisition has had a negative impact on the culture and leadership. Before the acquisition there were pretty much only positive reviews on Glassdoor.
Doesn't sound good.
Goodness.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,313
Just the current state of Firesprite according to what you can read online. You can hear stuff like:
- Management/leadership since Sony took over is awful. The last shipped project Horizon VR?) was a nightmare to work with.
- The Sony acquisition has negatively impacted many departments. Since the acquisition they have lost over 100 employees and had Firesprite culture dismantled piece by piece. Sony implemented a hiring pause that put pressure on several teams and caused many staff to have complete burnout.
- Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes (after the Firesprite and Fabrik Games acquisition).
- People are afraid to even give input on their own work and disappear if they challenge the new studio heads.
- Understaffed projects that are often poorly managed.
- Projects in development hell.
- Chaotic production on almost every project. Resulting in wasted time and people running around like headless chickens crunching to get stuff in last minute. Lack of clear direction in many projects. Too many leads/directors (especially after the Sony acquisition). They bite off more than they can chew resulting in cancelled projects. All projects are understaffed resulting on a lot of people getting moved from project to project.
- Management and many employees have limited experience with Unreal Engine and a certain project is suffering as a result. Unlikely to ship.

Remember Pete Ellis? The former Naughty Dog dev who went to Firesprite to work as a game director for their narrative-driven horror game?
He left this month.

Over 100 developers left since Sony bought them, game development is chaotic and projects are getting canceled. The Sony acquisition has had a negative impact on the culture and leadership. Before the acquisition there were pretty much only positive reviews on Glassdoor.
Doesn't sound good.

Well, fuck. Someone wake me up in 5 years when PS Studios has got their shit together and successfully expanded so they're not left in the dust.
 
Jul 2, 2021
16,930
Well, fuck. Someone wake me up in 5 years when PS Studios has got their shit together and successfully expanded so they're not left in the dust.
Yeah it looks like SIE UK didn't really learn a lot after closing Studio Liverpool & Cambridge Studio.

Studio Liverpool, Cambridge Studio, Manchester Studio, London Studio and now Firesprite and even Media Molecule.
SIE UK has been "struggling" for a very long time with their 1st party studios and games.
 
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Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,497
I am VERY confused - how are people already connecting layoffs to GaaS?! Or Sony changing their strategy?
Some of you are really obsessed with GaaS lol

This seems like the more "typical" layoffs that the whole industry has been going through the whole year. It's the after-effect of the massive Corona hiring spree and the after-effects of the overall economy taking a hit.
Bungie was one of the companies that hired A LOT of people in these last 2-3 years. Seems like a logical conclusion that they would have to lay off employees. That studio had over 1000 employees. That's gigantic for a video game studio (and self-publisher)
Not sure how that has anything to do with GaaS. It's just cutting costs.
And that absolutely sucks for the people affected by it.
People always blame something they dont like it happen pretty much all the time now.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,497
RoboCop seems decent enough as well this dev really do know how to make license IP games at this point.
 

chroeser

Member
Oct 27, 2017
310
Germany
The big problem is and was that the damn acquisition "war" that MS started, forced PS to buy studios were a long term partnership would have been better.
There are studios that generally work well (Insomniac, Housemarque, Bluepoint), but others would have flourished more as a work for hire.
Then Sony as a company was influenced by investors to buy into this GAAS-hype and announce it. Normally they would have kept there cards closer to the chest and not shout it from the rooftops. It doesn't help that ND has a habit of scopecreep and had to reset there structure to rely less an crunch.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,413

The comments sound terrible, but this one mentions a new CEO, who is that?

As far as I can find, the co-founders were: Graeme Ankers (managing director; still there?), Lee Carus (art director; on hiatus as of 5 months ago), Chris Roberts (technical director; still there), Stuart Tilley (game director; still there), Stuart Lovegrove (programming director; still there). Confused on the jumped ship comment.
 

Markratos

Hermen Hulst's Secret Account
Member
Feb 15, 2020
3,133
And people keep saying: "Sony should start founding studios from scratch."
What they should do now is buy well-oiled machines that have proven their efficiency and quality (sorry SE).

With all this recent news, I'm becoming more and more excited about Concord. The first PlayStation Studios Triple A GaaS developed by a new studio (seems like a miracle).
 
Jul 2, 2021
16,930
The big problem is and was that the damn acquisition "war" that MS started, forced PS to buy studios were a long term partnership would have been better.
There are studios that generally work well (Insomniac, Housemarque, Bluepoint), but others would have flourished more as a work for hire.
I think it has more to do with these studios being "brandnew". Studios like Haven, Firewalk, Savage Game Studios or even Firesprite (founded in 2012 but they were mostly a small indie studio and support studio). These days you can see game dev veterans set up a new AAA studio just so they can sell their studio as soon as possible for profit (see my Firesprite post above: "Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes").
I doubt Sony would have issues to integrate veteran studios like Remedy or From Software.
And people keep saying: "Sony should start founding studios from scratch."
What they should do now is buy well-oiled machines that have proven their efficiency and quality.
Correct.
 
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Startropper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,058
Considering the level of autonomy that Bungie was implying they were given by SIE, my assumption was that it was "we need to cut our budget down by X% while we are doing poorly financially. You need to find a way to cut costs by X% for until TFS and Marathon can release." order. I'm unsure of if SIE management looks closely enough at the inner workings at Bungie to decide who gets laid off or not, though after the two delays I would guess that they'd want to manage things more closely going forward.

Yeah that seems like the most reasonable assumption. Sony has Hulst, Ryan, and Lempel on their board of directors, so they have some advisory within Bungie, but it's ultimately up to Parsons to act upon that advice however he sees fit. Unfortunately, a lot of really talented people were let go as a result of it.

Do you think the "high-burn rate" Microsoft identified with Bungie could have factored into this?

Source https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/26/...ungie-acquisition-targets-internal-email-xbox

Microsoft had identified a "high burn-rate" risk for Bungie, alongside NetEase's $100 million minority stake investment in 2018.

Does "high burn-rate" mean they burn through the budgets they're allocated for development?
 

bleits

Member
Oct 14, 2023
134
Just the current state of Firesprite according to what you can read online. You can hear stuff like:
- Management/leadership since Sony took over is awful. The last shipped project (Horizon VR?) was a nightmare to work with.
- The Sony acquisition has negatively impacted many departments. Since the acquisition they have lost over 100 employees and had Firesprite culture dismantled piece by piece. Sony implemented a hiring pause that put pressure on several teams and caused many staff to have complete burnout.
- Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes (after the Firesprite and Fabrik Games acquisition).
- People are afraid to even give input on their own work and disappear if they challenge the new studio heads.
- Understaffed projects that are often poorly managed.
- Projects in development hell.
- Chaotic production on almost every project. Resulting in wasted time and people running around like headless chickens crunching to get stuff in last minute. Lack of clear direction in many projects. Too many leads/directors (especially after the Sony acquisition). They bite off more than they can chew resulting in cancelled projects. All projects are understaffed resulting on a lot of people getting moved from project to project.
- Management and many employees have limited experience with Unreal Engine and a certain project is suffering as a result. Unlikely to ship.

Remember Pete Ellis? The former Naughty Dog dev who went to Firesprite to work as a game director for their narrative-driven horror game? He left this month.

Over 100 developers left since Sony bought them, game development is chaotic and projects are getting canceled. The Sony acquisition has had a negative impact on the culture and leadership. Before the acquisition there were pretty much only positive reviews on Glassdoor.
Doesn't sound good.
Didn't have high hopes for Firesprite but this is awful.
 

chroeser

Member
Oct 27, 2017
310
Germany
I think it has more to do with these studios being "brandnew". Studios like Haven, Firewalk or even Firesprite (founded in 2012 but they were mostly a small indie studio and support studio). These days you can see game dev veterans set up a new AAA studio just so they can sell their studio as soon as possible for profit (see my Firesprite post above: "Founders jumped ship after they got their golden parachutes").
I doubt Sony would have issues to intergrate veteran studios like Remedy or From Software.
Yeah that's true. I hope Haven atleast works well because Jade Raymond has demonstrated, that she knows her job.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,413
Yeah that's true. I hope Haven atleast works well because Jade Raymond has demonstrated, that she knows her job.

At least for Haven, granted it's only 13 reviews, but they are all 5/5 on Glassdoor and 100% recommend to a friend & approve of the CEO (Jade).

Some comments:

- At it's core, the company is composed of extremely talented people that have made their proofs in the industry by shipping an impressive amount of titles.
- Incredibly kind and friendly environment - which contrasts a lot with the impressive experience.
- Ambitious team that is willing to dream big, but also understand the implications of the objectives, and is willing to invest in the technology required to reach the objectives.
- Open culture, with management that is always available for comments and improvement suggestions, and that act on it.
- Already aware of the diversity bias that the game industry has, and is giving itself tools to improve the situation from the beginning.
- Team committed to flexibility of hybrid work - everybody has powerful laptops enabling us to work from home efficiently, and transfer to physical cowork space easily.

+ Most talented team in Montreal
+ Strong team values (Kindness, Adaptability, Courage and Excellence)
+ Sony is an awesome partner
+ Inspiring and ambitious project
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,092
What they should do now is buy well-oiled machines that have proven their efficiency and quality (sorry SE).

Id rather they not acquire anyone fitting that bill... and by that I mean Capcom. After reading the above stuff, I dont want any company getting in the way of what Capcom's doing.

Then again I also dont agree with the complete hands off Xbox approach either...

Ah how I hate acquisitions...
 

0insideofme

Member
Oct 26, 2023
197
After read some posts here, especially the Firesprite one, I have to said I'm really worried with PS leadership. Maybe Jim retire was not a retire in fact.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,676
Some of the *founders as you say from Firesprite* have took their golden parachute as you say, it sounds like to me that those founders where the real passion and skill there. Take these away and you lose all the culture etc.

One of those founders now I know that person had left and retired I can say I knew and I think that COTM was not the same game at one time it turned out to when released. Lots where changed.
Plus I heard that some of the tech guys from London Studio primarily the VR knowledge went there to help with making whatever VR projects where working on. I don't even know if they are there now.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,413
Looking at other Glassdoor studio reviews, and many aren't very good across the board (industry/platforms). Some clear stand outs like Insominac, Haven and SMS, but typically <4 stars. Granted, I haven't checked the most recent reviews.

Not to distract, more to state the industry being so shit and tumultuous seems to inherently drop faith in studios, thus reviews.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,413
Some of the *founders as you say from Firesprite* have took their golden parachute as you say, it sounds like to me that those founders where the real passion and skill where. Take these away and you lose all the culture etc.

One of those founders now I know that person had left and retired I can say I knew and I think that COTM was not the same game at one time it turned out to when released. Lots where changed.
Plus I heard that some of the tech guys from London Studio primarily the VR knowledge went there to help with making whatever VR projects where working on. I don't even know if they are there now.

Do you know which one of the founders left? The only one I could definitively confirm is Lee Cartus, and couldn't confirm one way or another where Graeme Ankers is.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,676
After hearing this now it does not fill me with lots of hope for Sony VR now. Even Sony at all. Maybe its Jim Ryan's doing all this and hence why he is *retiring* and Eric Lempel is in the driving seat now.
I think that now more than ever someone should nail Sony down and ask about what's next? Are they in a mess? If so are they fixing?
If this info is in public domain then it's not a good look for Sony at all.
 

dobahking91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,638
And people keep saying: "Sony should start founding studios from scratch."
What they should do now is buy well-oiled machines that have proven their efficiency and quality (sorry SE).
Bingo !
Some of us have been saying this for years....organic growth is painfull and VERY slow.
Go the MS way and buy "well-oiled machines" like you said.
 
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