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The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
We only know how many Pokemon were cut, which ones were cut, the lack of GTS, and the lack of post-game areas thanks to leakers.

Combine that with Game Freak barely sending out any review copies and only announcing that Pokemon would be cut at all in an off the cuff statement during the Treehouse livestream at E3, I'm not sure how you can say they're being transparent about this huge change to the series.

Wait? There is no GTS? Then how we will be able to trade Pokémon online?
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,527
Portugal
Transparency and delivering bad news has historically be "bad for business" which is why Nintendo ran PR under this mindset for a very long time

As well as many other companies to this day

Im not defending it but its still pretty much the norm
i do wonder if this is "true".
For example HOI IV was heavily crticized at the start for the lack of several features + several problems. After 1 year of patches + DLC the game had as many plays as it had at launch.
warhammer 2 also has retained around 75% of the playerbase for each DLC despite some problems at the start as well as requiring another game to fully use all the features it has. (the game has 2 years so that is pretty imrpessive)

From my limited knowledge of the video game industry being honest is only "bad for business" if you have 0 reputation of fixing your games, which let's be honest is almost all AAA games.

I have no doubts that if game freak said we have these at launch because we are increasing quality of the pokemons witht he rest being added for free in the next 2 years, i'd bet the backlash would be much smaller. Specially if they made pokemon bank free for those that bought the new game.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Expect one of these three things soon:
- someone posts /vp/ screenshots of points no one in this thread has made to discredit people's opinions
- someone calls someone else a GF shill
- someone complains about Vanillite
- someone calls the discourse toxic while also comparing valid criticism to gamergate
oh wait
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Actually if they explained Home, the dexit stuff wouldn't have blown up this much.

If Home is a pokemon showdown thing that any pokemon can join it'd be amazing.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,137
Yeah, either spread across 2 different games across 2 different console generations or stuck in a dumb phone app instead of a real game, what a great choice.



Let's not kid ourselves and say that the dex cull is the only problem.

If there was no dex cull I'd still be sore about how stagnant and uninteresting the series has become, but I probably wouldn't be actively complaining about it because I'd still have my collection.
HOME is on the Switch, not just a "dumb phone app"

Also ever consider maybe Pokémon isn't for you if you don't like the games anymore?

I don't like Halo anymore. I used to, but I don't. However I'm not screaming at 343 and Microsoft about it. I just stopped buying it and stopped playing it. Maybe I'm just crazy for doing that and should yell more.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
As someone who hasn't been completely spoiled but been hearing random folks thoughts of the game; I'm really confused by the discussion of the games on the pst couple of days. In the beginning of these leaks the consensus seemed to be that this is the best iteration of the games despite dex cuts, but after the real number of Pokémon available shown, and the recent leak this morning, the vibe feels like this is actually the worst showing for a console Pokémon game.

Which is it? Is the gripes about dexit really offsetting what folks were initially excited about? Granted I skim most of this discussion, but it really feels like there's been a complete 180 on the game's overall quality because of the quantity of the dex.

Is the QoL updates, story and other things actually bad? I thought we weren't getting hand-holdy tutorial beginnings... is that a lie too? Just wrapping my head about this because it really is hampering my ability to engage in these discussions if it's only about the dex.

Pretty easy to avoid story spoilers in the leak thread

Venture on down there and see for yourself ;)
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,190
As someone who hasn't been completely spoiled but been hearing random folks thoughts of the game; I'm really confused by the discussion of the games on the pst couple of days. In the beginning of these leaks the consensus seemed to be that this is the best iteration of the games despite dex cuts, but after the real number of Pokémon available shown, and the recent leak this morning, the vibe feels like this is actually the worst showing for a console Pokémon game.

Which is it? Is the gripes about dexit really offsetting what folks were initially excited about? Granted I skim most of this discussion, but it really feels like there's been a complete 180 on the game's overall quality because of the quantity of the dex.

Is the QoL updates, story and other things actually bad? I thought we weren't getting hand-holdy tutorial beginnings... is that a lie too? Just wrapping my head about this because it really is hampering my ability to engage in these discussions if it's only about the dex.
I don't really know the answer but personally, what makes me sad is despite the massive cut (which I can understand) 3D Pokémon games still have no respectable post-games. Since X/Y, I'm constantly disappointed everytime I hear the next game won't be better in that area. Sw/Sh is actually worse because it's missing something really important in the end-game as well.
 

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,086
And just think, we get to repeat this whole song and dance for every new game. Heated times ahead for everyone involved.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Wait? There is no GTS? Then how we will be able to trade Pokémon online?
You exchange link codes of course.

Although as Joe pointed out, it's certainly possible they restore all of these missing features with a patch, even though they've never done that before and said they won't do it this time. There's still a chance though so let's calm down.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
If there is none, then link codes.
You exchange link codes of course.

Although as Joe pointed out, it's certainly possible they restore all of these missing features with a patch, even though they've never done that before and said they won't do it this time. There's still a chance though so let's calm down.

I can't believe this. Why remove such an important feature since gen 4? Wow.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Lots of people, according to my Twitter mentions.



And many more across Twitter. Just look at the morale thread and tweets about the morale story.

People are being absolute assholes. I will not stand for it. I don't care if people think I'm a shill for it.

It has made me ashamed of the community

Take that up with the people making those statements then. Stop painting with a broad brush because it fits the narrative you're pushing.

And who says they're not going to do that for Gen 8?
Game Freak, as you're well aware.

No it wouldn't have.

They tried to be open, they even stated reasons. However, in that case you have people with no knowledge of game development insisting they are lying.
They never revealed the scope of the cuts.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
You exchange link codes of course.

Although as Joe pointed out, it's certainly possible they restore all of these missing features with a patch, even though they've never done that before and said they won't do it this time. There's still a chance though so let's calm down.
maybe there will be a huge content patched linked with a movie
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,508
You exchange link codes of course.

Although as Joe pointed out, it's certainly possible they restore all of these missing features with a patch, even though they've never done that before and said they won't do it this time. There's still a chance though so let's calm down.

Well isn't one of the goals of Fervent criticism to get them to take SOME kind of action in response and change course?

I mean why else would we talk about it for months instead of just say it once and move on?
 

Barahir_mjh

Member
Feb 18, 2018
178
1. People can't seem to differentiate between criticism and harassment. I tweeted my discontent at people who have been harassing Game Freak staff and got the responses akin to "Oh so we can't criticise now?"
This goes both ways though, some criticism goes too far but there are also people saying anyone dissatisfied with this game is equivalent to Gamergate harassment (someone in this topic grouped "boycotts and death threats" as if they're basically the same). I say that as someone who only dabbles in Pokemon occasionally and doesn't a have a large stake in this.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Gotta love people bringing unrelated tweets to paint all criticism of gamefreak and the games in the same terrible light.
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,925
Lots of people, according to my Twitter mentions.



And many more across Twitter. Just look at the morale thread and tweets about the morale story.

People are being absolute assholes. I will not stand for it. I don't care if people think I'm a shill for it.

It has made me ashamed of the community

Are they in this thread right now?
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Well isn't one of the goals of Fervent criticism to get them to take SOME kind of action in response and change course?

I mean why else would we talk about it for months instead of just say it once and move on?
Unfortunately no. Kids will buy it anyway and the people criticizing it are just a vocal minority of childish internet trolls making death threats, so there's no point to criticizing. Game Freak doesn't owe us anything after all.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,812
Actually if they explained Home, the dexit stuff wouldn't have blown up this much.

If Home is a pokemon showdown thing that any pokemon can join it'd be amazing.

If Home has battles and is using the current Pokemon assets (i.e. including the Galar Pokemon), it would just beg the question of why that isn't in the main game or why patches or DLC aren't on the horizon, especially since balance was stated as an issue. I'm just expecting something like Camping + PokePelago, but in an app. But I agree, it would be nice to have a trailer demonstrating some sort of valuable interactivity with one's collection.
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,431
Also ever consider maybe Pokémon isn't for you if you don't like the games anymore?

Yes, I've considered it a fucking lot, considering for the last 2 years I was told that "this game isn't for you, wait for next years game" and now we've moved on to "This franchise isn't for you"

Yeah, it's not for me anymore, I'm not giving them any more money, that doesn't mean I can't lament that they could do so much better with what used to be one of my favourite franchises.

I mean, for fucks sake are people going to start telling me next year that video games aren't for me anymore? because it feels like every year it escalates to another excuse.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
We don't know for a fact GTS is out and there's actually a plausible reason for it not to be visible.

Brace for the worst, but let's not take it as a given just yet.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,085
Melbourne, Australia
Things can change, as evidenced by this happening here. I wouldn't be surprised if things change in the future.
And what could spark that change? People quietly accepting it? No. Backlash is the only thing companies respond to. (and no not harassment before someone starts).

Things like the hashtag spamming were good ways to voice the complaint, but lots of 'fans' were constantly labeling even that as harassment.

All that said, I'm nowhere near as optimistic as you that anything will change even if the response gets worse.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
HOME is on the Switch, not just a "dumb phone app"

Also ever consider maybe Pokémon isn't for you if you don't like the games anymore?

I don't like Halo anymore. I used to, but I don't. However I'm not screaming at 343 and Microsoft about it. I just stopped buying it and stopped playing it. Maybe I'm just crazy for doing that and should yell more.
God this is just so disingenuous it hurts
 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,009
Actually if they explained Home, the dexit stuff wouldn't have blown up this much.

If Home is a pokemon showdown thing that any pokemon can join it'd be amazing.
Frankly, if they went through all this trouble to not include all Pokemon in Sword and Shield, only for them to turn around and put all Pokemon and a battle mode exclusively in a paid subscription service, that probably wouldn't go over very well.
 

Herb Alpert

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,035
Paris, France
Wow Pokemon is serious matter.
Some upset people should take a little break , take a big breath and think back about the seriousness of the case.

From my point of view, which is one of somebody not into Pokemon, this whole affaire seems quite pathetic...
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,812
Things can change, as evidenced by this happening here. I wouldn't be surprised if things change in the future.

Also ever consider maybe Pokémon isn't for you if you don't like the games anymore?
I don't like Halo anymore. I used to, but I don't. However I'm not screaming at 343 and Microsoft about it. I just stopped buying it and stopped playing it. Maybe I'm just crazy for doing that and should yell more.

These feel like contradictory points. They've explicitly stated their approach is a limited regional dex for upcoming games. A reason this might change is due to fan feedback.

You characterize it as 'yelling/screaming' and I understand your frustration but tone is generally hard to gauge on the internet so discontent can be expressed a variety of different ways.
 
Absolutely not, they deserve nothing of that.

However, well worded criticisms are legitimate over the issues that were brought out during these last months.

It's important not to put both critics and extremes in the same basket.
For many of us around Friday is where we'll have better idea of how the game is. At most any thing they post will be up to debate but not enough for full criticism.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Frankly, if they went through all this trouble to not include all Pokemon in Sword and Shield, only for them to turn around and put all Pokemon and a battle mode in a paid subscription service, that probably wouldn't go over very well.

It'd be better than what we are getting, though. At least we could have a mode to incorporate the 60% that was cut...
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,137
And what could spark that change? People quietly accepting it? No. Backlash is the only thing companies respond to. (and no not harassment before someone starts).

Things like the hashtag spamming were good ways to voice the complaint, but lots of 'fans' were constantly labeling even that as harassment.

All that said, I'm nowhere near as optimistic as you that anything will change even if the response gets worse.
Like I have said.

Criticism is fine. Backlash is fine.

What has been happening is not fine. It has gone way beyond. it's downright insulting to people and it's tarnishing the community. Like I said, I'm ashamed and disgusted with how parts of the community have been acting of late
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
And what could spark that change? People quietly accepting it? No. Backlash is the only thing companies respond to. (and no not harassment before someone starts).

Things like the hashtag spamming were good ways to voice the complaint, but lots of 'fans' were constantly labeling even that as harassment.

All that said, I'm nowhere near as optimistic as you that anything will change even if the response gets worse.

There's obviously real harassment going on, but when some people started talking about youtube dislikes and hashtag spam (on official company accounts) as harassment I couldn't help but roll my eyes
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,122
Like I have said.

Criticism is fine. Backlash is fine.

What has been happening is not fine. It has gone way beyond. it's downright insulting to people and it's tarnishing the community. Like I said, I'm ashamed and disgusted with how parts of the community have been acting of late
Both sides are a dumpster fire.
 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,009
It'd be better than what we are getting, though. At least we could have a mode to incorporate the 60% that was cut...
My point was that if they could do that in Home then there would be zero reason to not allow transfers into Sword and Shield, other than money grubbing for Home subscriptions.
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,481
How is it disingenuous? It's me showing you can not like things and not go to ridiculous levels about it

Giant uproar and overreaction over every feature and change they don't like that Game freak reveals/leaks seems to be the only thing that makes sense to them.

I guess anything else is "disingenuous."
 
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