• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
I think that forum discourse has significantly improved in quality over the past 20 years. There is less asinine console war drama, and there is nothing like the original impressions of Windwaker's graphics. Not to mention the lack of activities like forum raids.

Back in high school and college I had a similar experience at other forums where I "knew" virtually every poster on the sites I frequented, but things are more tightly moderated and more polite here. I also don't think reg date matters that much.

"Good old days" chat just doesn't carry much weight for me.

Meh. Console warring seems just as bad, if not worse to me. Back in the day sites were busier and tended to be divided up into platform-specific subforums with rules about only talking about that platform. So the console warring was more limited unless you went to poorly moderated places or the places with catch all gaming forums.

In any case, there was just much less complaining about gaming in general than there are these days and a lot more of people just positively chatting about the games they were currently loving. At least on the forums I spent time on. That still exits, it's just in discord's, smaller subReddits and other more curated places rather than traditional forums.

Add in all the added warring between the political divides that wasn't really there in the gaming community in any great frequency prior to Gamergate and then the 2016 election etc., and things are just very hostile and tense anymore for what is supposed to be a fun hobby.

But like I said, it just is what it is. I'll either find enough utility and enjoyment from forums in their current form, or just quit them entirely. With the latter being the most likely outcome given dropped every forum but this one.

Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying forums were ever amazing or overly civil places. From pretty much day 1 anonymous internet communities have been havens for trolls, assholes and losers who just want to share their misery as most "normal" people are interacting in real life and not on hobbyist forums. The ratio of toxic to good posters has just further shifted toward the former as there's so many other, more curated and easy to use options for people who want to avoid all that to go with social media, subReddits, Discords, group threads in text messaging apps etc. than there was back in the day. There's less reason for the positive folks to wade through all the crap to find the good posts than ever before.
 
Last edited:
Dec 13, 2017
887
I wonder if they'll hit similarly insane numbers on the next mainline game on Switch (I'm assuming there will be at least 1 more) if they hold the line on like...everything...that many consider to be outdated, archaic, and stale about the franchise. I'm in the camp of hoping for modernization but history isn't on my side.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,203
I wonder if they'll hit similarly insane numbers on the next mainline game on Switch (I'm assuming there will be at least 1 more) if they hold the line on like...everything...that many consider to be outdated, archaic, and stale about the franchise. I'm in the camp of hoping for modernization but history isn't on my side.
What modernisation would you like? I keep seeing this and the only response I seem to get is to scrap the turn-based, which is nuts.
 

Deleted member 29464

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,121
I hope this doesn't mean there will be no incentive to polish or just well outright fix their online. I was shocked at how poor the quality control was.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I hope this doesn't mean there will be no incentive to polish or just well outright fix their online. I was shocked at how poor the quality control was.
I pray they take the time to enhance their engine so the next game doesn't look flat as a washboard. AO and proper shadows goes a long way. maybe throw in some physically based materials. but that might necessitate a whole new engine
 

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
What modernisation would you like? I keep seeing this and the only response I seem to get is to scrap the turn-based, which is nuts.

I don't know if it's modernization, but even having only played Y and Let's Go Pikachu and currently Sword (and Pokemon Go, which is very different of course) I'm a bit tired of the follow the paths, fight the gym leaders and then elite 4 structure of the game. I wouldn't mind seeing them make it more of a traditional RPG with more narrative, either an open world or several open zones (like several wild areas) etc.

But I get that will probably never change as the lore is all about the Pokemon league and becoming champion, they want to keep it mostly linear to make it easier for kids and casuals to finish etc., and I do still enjoy it.
 
Last edited:

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Sword and Shield are totally going to get definitive editions to boost those already impressive sales numbers.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,659
Sword and Shield are totally going to get definitive editions to boost those already impressive sales numbers.
Nah, not at least until the last year of the Switch's life or something. Pokemon games (main ones anyway) almost never drop in price and them bundling the passes will only rob them of a big amount of revenue. Nintendo and TPC know that this is "free" money. Don't forget this passes the barrier all publishers hate more than any; used copies. DLC is pure profit for the company, hell it may even provide more profit than the main game at least at retail, with shipping fees and retailer cuts, and the like not being considered.
 

goodretina

Member
Dec 30, 2018
1,711
Even though there were a lot of disappointing features of SwSh, I remain hopeful that we will see an improvement in future games in terms of performance, pacing, and content. If only a portion of the team is working on the DLC for the coming year, then it should give them more development time for the presumed Sinnoh remakes and the next generation.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I don't know if it's modernization, but even having only played Y and Let's Go Pikachu (and Pokemon Go, which is very different of course) I'm a bit tired of the follow the paths, fight the gym leaders and then elite 4 structure of the game. I wouldn't mind seeing them make it more of a traditional RPG with more narrative, either an open world or several open zones (like several wild areas) etc.

But I get that will probably never change as the lore is all about the Pokemon league and becoming champion, they want to keep it mostly linear to make it easier for kids and casuals to finish etc., and I do still enjoy it.
They did change up the formula a bit in Sun & Moon. Those games had trials rather than gym leaders and was more story focused. Sword/Shield actually was a return to gyms as well as making them far more of a spectacle compared to past games.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,358
They did change up the formula a bit in Sun & Moon. Those games had trials rather than gym leaders and was more story focused. Sword/Shield actually was a return to gyms as well as making them far more of a spectacle compared to past games.
They seem to be going for a "first gen on new hardware is classic, second gen shakes things up" approach based on what they've said in interviews. It was certainly true on the DS and 3DS and since they took the gym formula to its extreme I'm expecting them to go really wild with gen 9
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
What modernisation would you like? I keep seeing this and the only response I seem to get is to scrap the turn-based, which is nuts.
For me at least, what i'd like to see:
I'd like to see the overworld take ques from Xenoblade, with every route basically being it's own separate wild area. (Honestly, I get the feeling GF is gonna eventually go this way anyway, unless they scrap the Wild Area next gen)
Turn Based is great, but I think they need to make doubles the new standard for all battles, leaving singles as a legacy option for multiplayer and the Battle Tower(I suppose it'd be useful for wild battles too).
It's such a basic thing and it infuriates me that they don't do this. They even scrapped triples last gen!
And an incredibly important modernization would be some properly implemented and balanced difficulty modes for the story.

From a story perspective, they really need to shake things up, good and proper. I've played though the "Beat up 8 gym leaders, then the evil team, then become champ, while also beating your rival" so many times and it is beyond stale now. The biggest shake up they did was SuMo, and basically all it did was swap out gyms for trials. Just because the games are aimed at kids doesn't mean the writing has to be so formulaic and frankly rather crap. Plenty of content aimed at kids have incredible stories, just take a look at Pixar, or hell, if you wanna stay within the same IP, just look at explorers of sky. I wanna see GF go nuts with the story. Go big or go home.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Every time i see "botw pokemon" i just shake my head so hard. People really want to just walk empty fields from city to city with maybe 2 or 3 groups of pokemon in the way? Because that's what that sounds like to me.

No, the reason why BOTW is so good as a Zelda game is because it's inspired by the original Zelda and takes all the imagination from that game and puts it into a real product. A BOTW-moment for Pokemon would be something that takes the concept that couldn't be realized on Gameboy and expands it into a full product.

Routes that are complex and varied and not a straight 20 meter line that shows you the next town in the very same screen. Sprawling caves and complex towers and labyrinths that really make you feel like you might get lost. Full 3D camera across the whole game. Animations that actually look like the moves. Sound design that actually sound like the Pokemon should. Pokemon accurately scaled to the size of the world.

Pokemon has had some sort of 3D models for over 20 years now and they haven't built up an animation library? When they outsource these "future proofed models" why aren't they also outsourcing high quality animations? It's 2020 and Double Kick is still the static model hopping twice. For the largest media franchise in the world, hell yeah we want a BOTW moment. But that's never gonna happen.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I wouldn't mind them dropping the contemporary world design for something more fantastical. Would allow them to be more imaginative with towns. There's a reason Ballonlea was the most interesting town in SS (and the one most indicative of how bad quest design got)
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
No, the reason why BOTW is so good as a Zelda game is because it's inspired by the original Zelda and takes all the imagination from that game and puts it into a real product. A BOTW-moment for Pokemon would be something that takes the concept that couldn't be realized on Gameboy and expands it into a full product.

Routes that are complex and varied and not a straight 20 meter line that shows you the next town in the very same screen. Sprawling caves and complex towers and labyrinths that really make you feel like you might get lost. Full 3D camera across the whole game. Animations that actually look like the moves. Sound design that actually sound like the Pokemon should. Pokemon accurately scaled to the size of the world.

Pokemon has had some sort of 3D models for over 20 years now and they haven't built up an animation library? When they outsource these "future proofed models" why aren't they also outsourcing high quality animations? It's 2020 and Double Kick is still the static model hopping twice. For the largest media franchise in the world, hell yeah we want a BOTW moment. But that's never gonna happen.
This would be great, but it'd take a decently sized team a few years to make, and GF runs a pretty tight release schedule.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,954
No, the reason why BOTW is so good as a Zelda game is because it's inspired by the original Zelda and takes all the imagination from that game and puts it into a real product. A BOTW-moment for Pokemon would be something that takes the concept that couldn't be realized on Gameboy and expands it into a full product.

Routes that are complex and varied and not a straight 20 meter line that shows you the next town in the very same screen. Sprawling caves and complex towers and labyrinths that really make you feel like you might get lost. Full 3D camera across the whole game. Animations that actually look like the moves. Sound design that actually sound like the Pokemon should. Pokemon accurately scaled to the size of the world.

Pokemon has had some sort of 3D models for over 20 years now and they haven't built up an animation library? When they outsource these "future proofed models" why aren't they also outsourcing high quality animations? It's 2020 and Double Kick is still the static model hopping twice. For the largest media franchise in the world, hell yeah we want a BOTW moment. But that's never gonna happen.
Then they should actually articulate like that, and not just use buzzwords to describe what they think they want. And also i highly doubt most of those posters think like what you're descriving. I'm very sure myself that what they want is a big open world like zelda with pokemon spread on it, which sounds like the worst chore in the world for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
But the DLC is going to be just that, barren open worlds chugging at 15fps with launch PS3 graphics where Pokemon only pop-in when you are 10 feet away from them, so you'll be getting your worst chore anyways.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
is the game any good? Lost interest after sun/moon and never completed it. Should I bite?
what didn't you like about SM? was the story pace? cause this game game also stops you frequently, but overall it moves much faster than SM ever did (and there's practically no story until the end).

or was it the level design? cause this game is just as bad

the catching, raising, and battling is much better though
 

CrocoDuck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,287
what didn't you like about SM? was the story pace? cause this game game also stops you frequently, but overall it moves much faster than SM ever did (and there's practically no story until the end).

or was it the level design? cause this game is just as bad

the catching, raising, and battling is much better though

It was the linearity and how incredibly easy and terrible the level design (thinking of the "puzzles") was. I also felt that many of the Pokemon were just rehashes of gen 1 and I didn't see enough of the new ones. I thought Sun/Moon was an improvement on X/Y, which I heavily disliked due to the art style, but it still lacked a challenge and the world felt "small".
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
It was the linearity and how incredibly easy and terrible the level design (thinking of the "puzzles") was. I also felt that many of the Pokemon were just rehashes of gen 1 and I didn't see enough of the new ones. I thought Sun/Moon was an improvement on X/Y, which I heavily disliked due to the art style, but it still lacked a challenge and the world felt "small".
then you're not gonna like this. the new pokemon are great and are in ample supply (though not in the wild area for some reason). but the level design is garbage still. there are no puzzles, and no dungeons (though the DLC implies there will be "dungeons"). and the game is still piss easy
 

Cjdamon042

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,325
Edinburgh
It was the linearity and how incredibly easy and terrible the level design (thinking of the "puzzles") was. I also felt that many of the Pokemon were just rehashes of gen 1 and I didn't see enough of the new ones. I thought Sun/Moon was an improvement on X/Y, which I heavily disliked due to the art style, but it still lacked a challenge and the world felt "small".

I would say the linearity and difficulty are the two worse things about SwSh, the third being the "story".

For the most part you will be running in a straight line from town to town with little to no exploration. There are some areas that may have a path or two that deviate from the main path, and then obviously you have the wild area, but overall there's not much to it. There are basically no dungeons either, it's actually impressive how they managed that. Regarding difficulty, the only battle I had any remote difficulty with was against the champion, but not to the point where I thought I might lose or anything.

The Pokémon designs were the best part for me; I thought they were excellent.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Wdym by fixing beat up/justified?
beat up attacks as many times as pokemon are in your party
Justified boosts attack stat every time you're hit by a dark type move
the combo plays out like this
  • attack animation
  • hit animation
  • stat boost animation
  • stat boost text
  • repeat for however many pokemon in your party
shit plays out excruciatingly long. there are other examples of this bad pacing, especially when stacked, including stuff like damaging status afflictions (poison burn), and entry hazards (spikes, rocks, toxic spikes)
 

Yukiko

Member
Feb 21, 2019
904
Spain
beat up attacks as many times as pokemon are in your party
Justified boosts attack stat every time you're hit by a dark type move
the combo plays out like this
  • attack animation
  • hit animation
  • stat boost animation
  • stat boost text
  • repeat for however many pokemon in your party
shit plays out excruciatingly long. there are other examples of this bad pacing, especially when stacked, including stuff like damaging status afflictions (poison burn), and entry hazards (spikes, rocks, toxic spikes)

I guess you could say the same about using water shuriken on a stamina Mudsdale.

I play VGC so I know about it and yeah it's kinda slow but there's not much they can do about it. I have to say status and hazards have gotten a lot faster, specially since the hp bar now moves way faster compared to, let's say, gen 4
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I guess you could say the same about using water shuriken on a stamina Mudsdale.

I play VGC so I know about it and yeah it's kinda slow but there's not much they can do about it. I have to say status and hazards have gotten a lot faster, specially since the hp bar now moves way faster compared to, let's say, gen 4
having multi-hit attacks play out, then have the cumulative damage remove from the bar and stat boosts (like "attack increased x4) would speed things up considerably.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,428
I've played almost every Pokemon game but don't consider myself a hardcore fan. I loved this entry. Still want my fast forward button because sometimes it's painfully slow but other than that, it was was almost everything I wanted really. Pretty delightful. I think I've played through it 4 or 5 times.
 

Yukiko

Member
Feb 21, 2019
904
Spain
having multi-hit attacks play out, then have the cumulative damage remove from the bar and stat boosts (like "attack increased x4) would speed things up considerably.

Yeah I figured It'd be something among those lines, thing is, it doesn't sound particularly easy to code since you'd have to change how justified/stamina works, and do the same for future abilities that work the same way. It's not impossible that's for sure
 

milkyway

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 17, 2018
3,018
Well despite some disappointment in SWSH and Home (from myself included), Pokemon seems to be very alive and well. I hope they invest all the money they're making into an impressive 9th generation entry. Still excited for the DLC and hope high sales can demonstrate that people do appreciate having access to many Pokemon and post-game content.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Yeah I figured It'd be something among those lines, thing is, it doesn't sound particularly easy to code since you'd have to change how justified/stamina works, and do the same for future abilities that work the same way. It's not impossible that's for sure
it's less a problem with the move an ability and more a problem with the general order of attacks, texts, and effects. they probably do have to rewrite all of that to properly stack things, but I've been at a point where they should rebuilt a lot of their systems anyway

or at least add a fast forward button
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,680
The worst is the narrative they have about how this news means that Gamefreak will add Lootboxes, like how do you even add that to an RPG like Pokemon? When i asked about examples in r/pokemon people could only come up with free to play games, honestly the news broke some people, that and having nothing else to hate on about
Xenoblade 2 had gacha mechanics, without charging for them.
It can easily be done.
 

Soulsis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
Insane. I'm so amused by our complicated relationship with Pokemon. Chronically underwhelmed with each iteration but fanatically buying them anyway. Playing through Shield I cycled through adoration and heavy frustration. The game is great for what it is, but it's deflating to think of all the potential there is and the developer is absolutely not interested in chasing it. It's just out of character for an IP of this magnitude.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Insane. I'm so amused by our complicated relationship with Pokemon. Chronically underwhelmed with each iteration but fanatically buying them anyway. Playing through Shield I cycled through adoration and heavy frustration. The game is great for what it is, but it's deflating to think of all the potential there is and the developer is absolutely not interested in chasing it. It's just out of character for an IP of this magnitude.
since they're moving closer to EPD Tokyo, maybe they'll use the same engine as Mario. it's not a fix for the gameplay stuff, but it's a start
 

Cjdamon042

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,325
Edinburgh
it's less a problem with the move an ability and more a problem with the general order of attacks, texts, and effects. they probably do have to rewrite all of that to properly stack things, but I've been at a point where they should rebuilt a lot of their systems anyway

or at least add a fast forward button

Temtem tried to make some of this stuff faster and they've done things I wanted Pokémon to do for years. Super effective moves show a green x2 or x4 icon next to the Temtem when it gets hit, and similarly not very effective moves show a red x0.5 or x0.25 icon. Alongside this, whenever stats are increased or decreased it displays an icon next to the Temtem showing which stat was effected and uses differing numbers of coloured arrows to show how much by. And say both of your Temtem are inflicted with poison or burn, both are damaged at the same time at the end of a turn, not individually.

It removes the need for text boxes and helps keep the flow going. If Pokémon were to add the same thing I think it would help greatly. Add an orange 'Crit!' icon or something next to the Pokémon if it was a critical hit, and do what Temtem does for effectiveness/stats, and voila.

For moves that do multiple attacks, just wait for the whole thing to be over and then display what is necessary. I agree it might be difficult due to some move/ability combinations but I reckon it is doable. Anything to help keep the flow going would do wonders.
 

ZaddyMattty

Member
Dec 4, 2017
738
New York City
What modernisation would you like? I keep seeing this and the only response I seem to get is to scrap the turn-based, which is nuts.

  • Camera control throughout the game
  • Anti-aliasing
  • Graphics, don't care if its cartoon-like (TemTem) or more realistic just pick something
  • The difficulty, it's incredibly easy, to the point where I am falling asleep playing
  • Better UI
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,954
But the DLC is going to be just that, barren open worlds chugging at 15fps with launch PS3 graphics where Pokemon only pop-in when you are 10 feet away from them, so you'll be getting your worst chore anyways.
You should quote me, or else i wouldn't know you were continuing the conversation.

And the fact that the dlc will/can have problems means nothing to my point. Open worlds are boring, all of them, and i don't want that in pokemon. I want my linear paths and short times from city to city.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,252
Xenoblade 2 had gacha mechanics, without charging for them.
It can easily be done.
Not really, this is a bad comparison because unlike what people like DistantKingdom want the pessimist to believe that Gamefreak will do is different of what Xenoblade did:
  1. Unlike Pokemon which is a monster collection RPG, Xenoblade is a more straightforward one
  2. Unlike normal gacha games where you can get multiple copies of the same object, character or weapon in Xenoblade after you get a Unique Blade it disappears from the pool making getting more than one impossible
  3. And the most important one YOU CAN'T BUY MORE WITH REAL MONEY, everything can only be gotten in-game
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,680
Not really, this is a bad comparison because unlike what people like DistantKingdom want the pessimist to believe that Gamefreak will do is different of what Xenoblade did:
  1. Unlike Pokemon which is a monster collection RPG, Xenoblade is a more straightforward one
  2. Unlike normal gacha games where you can get multiple copies of the same object, character or weapon in Xenoblade after you get a Unique Blade it disappears from the pool making getting more than one impossible
  3. And the most important one YOU CAN'T BUY MORE WITH REAL MONEY, everything can only be gotten in-game
I mean you wanted an example of how gacha mechanics would work in a traditional RPG, it's been done.
If they wantrd to charge money for it, they could have, and Gamefreak could do the same.
Middle Earth Shadows of War and Mass Effect 3 also had lootboxes, and they charged for them.

I don't think they will, but it's not like it's unprecedented.