Poland Defense Minister says they are ready to deport ukranian war refugees so they can be forcibly conscripted

[AcademicSaucer]

Poland has suggested it will help transfer Ukrainian men of fighting age back to their homeland, as Kyiv seeks to shore up its depleted armed forces.

Wladyslaw Kosiniak-Kamysz, the defence minister of Poland, said he was ready to take whatever steps necessary to move tens of thousands of men of military fighting age back to Ukraine.

"We have suggested for a long time that we can help the Ukrainian side ensure that people subject to compulsory military service go to Ukraine," he told Polsat, a Polish TV network.

Asked if this would involve a request from Ukraine to transport men of fighting age, he added: "Everything is possible."

It was not immediately clear what steps Poland might take to transfer the Ukrainians, such as deportation or a bilateral agreement with Kyiv.

There are nearly a million Ukrainian refugees registered in Poland, of whom around 16 per cent are males of fighting age.

"Staying abroad does not relieve a citizen of his or her duties to the homeland," Dmytro Kuleba, the Ukrainian foreign minister, said in a recent post on social media.

Poland Ready to Help Ukraine Return Conscription-Age Men Home

Poland’s defense chief said the country is prepared to assist Ukraine in getting fighting-age men to return to the war-battered country after Kyiv tightened conscription rules.

www.bloomberg.com

Poland could deport Ukrainians for conscription

Defence minister says country will intervene if necessary to support Kyiv as it struggles with dwindling numbers of soldiers

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Volimar]

I recognize that the government is desperate in the face of a literal invasion.

Still against compulsory service though.

 

[Fridaynightcatlady]

I can't say I agree with this, sorry.

 

[Grenchel]

Fucked up.

 

[jph139]

Call me a coward, but if my choice is between dying on the battlefield and letting my country fall to foreign invaders, I'm personally letting my country fall every day of the week - so I'm very sympathetic to anyone dodging a draft here even if it's a "just war" from the Ukrainian perspective.

 

[TaySan]

I'm not okay with this at all. Forcing people to fight against their will

 

[ScoutDave]

I recognize that the government is desperate in the face of a literal invasion.

Still against compulsory service though.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, kinda where im at. I feel like they are just throwing bodies to wolves at that point. Cause really, how effective could a terrified young man be in a field of war? At the same time, the Ukraine govt probably doesnt know what else to do.

 

[Koukalaka]

A difficult decision - there's an argument to be made that Ukrainians outside the country have the luxury of being able to avoid conscription in a way their countryman can't, but at the end of the day it's still forced service.

Worth noting that a large number of Ukrainians living abroad did go home to volunteer when the war kicked off.

 

[P-MAC]

I'm not okay with this at all. Forcing people to fight against their will

Click to shrink...

I don't agree with this either but it's important to remember the people forcing people to fight against their will are the Russians and the Russians only.

Ukraine is just doing what it thinks it has to to survive here.

To be honest I can't see this actually happening any time soon anyway, it's only helpful to them if they're struggling to get the manpower they need at home, and they haven't tried that much yet. They have at least one whole round of mobilisation to go through before this is a worthwhile question to ask, probably several more.

And of course Poland has said this, as much as they are against Russia they have been hating the refugee influx the whole time too. Whether Ukraine actually asks them to do it is another question.

 

[Koukalaka]

Yeah, kinda where im at. I feel like they are just throwing bodies to wolves at that point. Cause really, how effective could a terrified young man be in a field of war? At the same time, the Ukraine govt probably doesnt know what else to do.

Click to shrink...

There's an argument to be made that a more comprehensive conscription policy would mean soldiers can get rotated out more often, and would also get more training and opportunities to refresh and re-equip.

 

[Keikaku]

War sucks but there is no other choice. When you get conscripted, you go fight for your country. If Russia wins we'll all suffer and there's going to be no place to hide.

 

[Landy828]

War sucks but there is no other choice. When you get conscripted, you go fight for your country. If Russia wins we'll all suffer and there's going to be no place to hide.

Click to shrink...

There's always a choice.

No one has to die for any country or cause it they don't want to.

Forced military service is wrong.

 

[Falchion]

Yeah this really sucks.

 

[ScoutDave]

There's an argument to be made that a more comprehensive conscription policy would mean soldiers can get rotated out more often, and would also get more training and opportunities to refresh and re-equip.

Click to shrink...

I feel like regardless how much training someone gets, if they dont want to fight and are scared to death of dying...the training might help them live a little longer, but they will be still scared to death...cause its war. And the chances are they will die.

 

[PatAndTheCat]

Sucks, but is necessary. Ukraine is fighting an existential war and it needs more soldiers.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I hope everyone saying there's no other choice isn't from a country (like the US) that basically has a 0% chance of ever getting invaded.

 

[mbpm]

So it's going that badly then

Glad it's not me

 

[Reckheim]

I hope everyone saying there's no other choice isn't from a country (like the US) that basically has a 0% chance of ever getting invaded.

Click to shrink...

its always easy to say 'there is no choice' when your life isn't on the line; there is always a choice. Hopefully they can somehow get to Germany.

I certainly wouldn't willingly join to go fight for any country.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

its always easy to say 'there is no choice' when your life isn't on the line.

I certainly wouldn't willingly join to go fight for any country.

Click to shrink...

The "no other choice" people should go volunteer. Clearly they care more about Ukraine than the people who fled to Poland.

 

[Koukalaka]

I hope everyone saying there's no other choice isn't from a country (like the US) that basically has a 0% chance of ever getting invaded.

Click to shrink...

While I think it's ethically unsound to force people to fight that absolutely don't want to - it's also difficult to argue that some citizens should be spared from the impact of an existential defensive war simply by virtue of living abroad (which in many cases will be wealthier folks). I certainly don't agree with it as a policy but I can understand some of the thinking behind it.

Ukraine announced they were limiting access to consular services to fighting age citizens living abroad which seems like the right thing to do.

 

[PatAndTheCat]

So it's going that badly then

Glad it's not me

Click to shrink...

Nah not really. We just gave them 60 billion. Russia can't win. Ukraine just needs more men to ride out the rest of the war

 

[Darkwing Duck]

While I think it's ethically unsound to force people to fight that absolutely don't want to - it's also difficult to argue that some citizens should be spared from the impact of an existential defensive war simply by virtue of living abroad (which in many cases will be wealthier folks).

Ukraine announced they were limiting access to consular services to fighting age citizens living abroad which seems like the right thing to do.

Click to shrink...

It's highly unethical to force someone to give up their life for a piece of land if they don't want to.

Nah not really. We just gave them 60 billion. Russia can't win. Ukraine just needs more men to ride out the rest of the war

Click to shrink...

You should go volunteer.

 

[Tagyhag]

It really sucks because those who left are cowards (not a bad thing, I would have been one of them) who don't know or don't want to fight. Do your really want those people next to you in the trenches?

But it's also like, they NEED people. What good is all these toys that people are sending over if there is no one to man them?

There is no right and wrong here, but that's war. It's not righteous, it's not heroic, it's a bunch of young kids being sent out to die by old fucks.

There's always a choice.

No one has to die for any country or cause it they don't want to.

Forced military service is wrong.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, Poland has a choice as well, these aren't their citizens. If another country wants to take them, then they should, but Poland shouldn't be forced to keep them.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Gotta feel bad for the people falling into Putins hands...or not.

 

[mbpm]

Nah not really. We just gave them 60 billion. Russia can't win. Ukraine just needs more men to ride out the rest of the war

Click to shrink...

So if they don't get them, they're on the verge?

 

[Yahsper]

I hope everyone saying there's no other choice isn't from a country (like the US) that basically has a 0% chance of ever getting invaded.

Click to shrink...

Always irks me. Having grown up around Flanders Fields, that shit isn't even my generation but the effects of an invasion and having to fight for the survival of your country is felt through the ages. It feels like Americans when they think of war always think about 'the boys being send overseas for war' and if they don't want to fight, they shouldn't have to. Fair enough. But there's a difference between that and not fighting while it's your friends children being kidnapped and shipped of to the invading country, your grandparents starving, your childhood home being bombed, every place you have memories attached to obliterated and everyone you know being impacted. The shit my grandparents had to live through..Not as soldiers but as citizens. Yeah, you have a choice. But also not really.

Some general war stuff that actually happened but you don't generally hear about when people talk about war: my paternal grandmother, with two toddlers, not being able to get enough food because she, as a devout catholic, refuses to give blowjobs to the only farmer in the neighborhood that still had crops while her husband, my grandfather who was a miner, was sent to Germany to do forced labor in a factory. My maternal grandmother's sister, who lived through two world wars, only to get hit by a jeep driven by drunk American soldiers celebrating their victory and dying during the liberation. My ex-girlfriends family house being confiscated by German officers because it offered a view on the North Sea and thus was a good HQ for them.

 

[PatAndTheCat]

So if they don't get them, they're on the verge?

Click to shrink...

It's highly unethical to force someone to give up their life for a piece of land if they don't want to.



You should go volunteer.

Click to shrink...

nice try. Ukraine isn't accepting foreign volunteers with no military training.
Does this forum want Russia to win?

 

[gozu]

Shitty situation to be in all around...

Thanks Putin!

 

[TheGummyBear]

While I think it's ethically unsound to force people to fight that absolutely don't want to - it's also difficult to argue that some citizens should be spared from the impact of an existential defensive war simply by virtue of living abroad (which in many cases will be wealthier folks). I certainly don't agree with it as a policy but I can understand some of the thinking behind it.

Ukraine announced they were limiting access to consular services to fighting age citizens living abroad which seems like the right thing to do.

Click to shrink...

The issue there is that the wealthy aren't likely to be the ones impacted by the consular service restrictions, but the people who managed to get out of the country before the border was closed, and possibly men who were previously given exemption from conscription fleeing the country to care for dependents.

Even if this were to target wealthy Ukrainians of conscription age, its still entirely unethical to force them into a meat grinder of a war against their will.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

I'm mainly opposed to this for sexism reasons - if you're going to force people to fight, women shouldn't be excluded.

 

[Morgan1994]

nice try. Ukraine isn't accepting foreign volunteers with no military training.
Does this forum want Russia to win?

Click to shrink...

Um, do you think Ukrainians are born battle-ready? Like you just described Ukrainians living abroad. They don't have military experience. Weird comment.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

To be fair, Poland has a choice as well, these aren't their citizens. If another country wants to take them, then they should, but Poland shouldn't be forced to keep them.

Click to shrink...

They are refugees, under UE law that Poland is under, they have to keep them.

 

[Alavard]

Does this forum want Russia to win?

Click to shrink...

How dare you make an accusation like this. Like, what could you possibly be thinking here?

 

[charmeleon]

nice try. Ukraine isn't accepting foreign volunteers with no military training.
Does this forum want Russia to win?

Click to shrink...

Join the Brave

International Legion for the Defence of Ukraine formed by Presidential decree right after the outbreak of full-scale russian invasion, the Legion has taken part in the majority of the crucial campaigns and battles of the war. The International Legion consists of infantry and special task...

ildu.com.ua

• Military or relevant experience is an advantage
  Military experience is not required but would increase the chances of being accepted. Other relevant experiences might include law enforcement, paramilitary organizations, firefighting, etc.
• Combat experience is an advantage
  Combat experience is not required but would increase the chances of being accepted. Combat experience might include paramilitary or militias.

 

[Koukalaka]

It's highly unethical to force someone to give up their life for a piece of land if they don't want to.

Click to shrink...

Broadly I agree with you, forcing someone to fight with a gun at their back is absolutely unethical - and I genuinely don't know how I'd act in the same circumstances, but I can get why states (and many people living in them) feel like the burden of mobilisation shouldn't only fall on certain people.

Also, it's not just some magically uninhabited land, it's 40m+ people that would be subjected to all kinds of brutality (including rape, torture, arbitrary detention and murder) and an ongoing programme of ethnic cleansing that's literally happening right now in the areas that Russia has "liberated".

This is an existential war in its purest form - you don't need pundits or analysts to tell you that, almost any Ukrainian will.

 

[EagleClaw]

I'm pretty sure Poland can't decide to deport Ukrainians.
People fleeing Ukraine have protection status inside the EU.

And even if Poland would try to deport Ukrainians they could just go to another EU member state,
because People fleeing Ukraine have free movement inside the EU.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

nice try. Ukraine isn't accepting foreign volunteers with no military training.
Does this forum want Russia to win?

Click to shrink...

International Legion (Ukraine) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do I want Russia to win? No. Do I also think it's fine to force someone to fight in a war against their will? No. If that causes Russia win, that's how the cookie crumbles.

I provided a link to help you with your foreign volunteer service, you're eligible. Look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.

Selection criteria have broadened since 2022, and now the International Legion accepts those without any experience in military organizations, so long as they demonstrate a willingness to serve.

Click to shrink...

 

[Xando]

War sucks but there is no other choice. When you get conscripted, you go fight for your country. If Russia wins we'll all suffer and there's going to be no place to hide.

Click to shrink...

It's always the same, people want the benefits but not the disadvantages. I doubt the guys on the frontlines want to be there but they are. As you say this is not some shitty war where you get sent somewhere across the world to invade. The ukrainians are litterally fighting for the survival of their own country and culture.

 

[Raftina]

It really sucks because those who left are cowards (not a bad thing, I would have been one of them) who don't know or don't want to fight. Do your really want those people next to you in the trenches?

But it's also like, they NEED people. What good is all these toys that people are sending over if there is no one to man them?

There is no right and wrong here, but that's war. It's not righteous, it's not heroic, it's a bunch of young kids being sent out to die by old fucks.

Click to shrink...

There is certainly a right and wrong here. Poland is a party to the refugee convention. They have an obligation to take refugees. If Poland cannot find another country to take then, then Poland must keep them, not ship them out to a country where they are in danger of being persecuted on account of their nationality or race.

You don't get to ignore international law just because it is too inconvenient for the war you want to fight.

 

[Koukalaka]

So if they don't get them, they're on the verge?

Click to shrink...

I've seen differing opinions on Russia's manpower situation (and their war economy), but the Russian Government has basically swept the prisons and thrown ludicrous amounts of money (by Russian standards) at every criminally neglected and underdeveloped backwater (ethnic minority groups from these regions are hugely overrepresented in both deployed figures and casualties).

They've also tried to convince or outright trick people from all over the world, especially from South Asia, into military service. Not the actions of a country that can just "use numbers" to win - the only mobilisation the Kremlin carried out caused massive numbers to flee the country.

 

[Alavard]

It's always the same, people want the benefits but not the disadvantages.

Click to shrink...

This is a really gross way to characterize people that don't want to be killed or forced to take a life all due to the circumstances of where they were born.

 

[BringBackSonics]

It's an existential fight for survival. I'm typically against compulsory service, but when it's for the defense of your country. That changes things

 

[KillerMan91]

Yeah. I don't envy the situation and I say that as someone that has gone trough conscription and would be expected to fight if war broke out ( I am finnish). That is why I actually didn't really sleep that well during opening days of Russian invasion of Ukraine as I was wondering it Russia got quick victory we could be next.

 

[Melpomene]

Lot of people who are not currently being conscripted responding to conscription with "COPE!!!" right now.

 

[PatAndTheCat]

How dare you make an accusation like this. Like, what could you possibly be thinking here?

Click to shrink...

That people can't accept the hard truth that Ukrainians who have stayed and fight need help and those that fled should come home to help fight? This is an existential war against a country that is genociding Ukrainians and want to reabsorb Eastern Europe. It's a shitty situation for Ukrainians abroad.

 

[Thordinson]

It really sucks because those who left are cowards (not a bad thing, I would have been one of them) who don't know or don't want to fight. Do your really want those people next to you in the trenches?

But it's also like, they NEED people. What good is all these toys that people are sending over if there is no one to man them?

There is no right and wrong here, but that's war. It's not righteous, it's not heroic, it's a bunch of young kids being sent out to die by old fucks.



To be fair, Poland has a choice as well, these aren't their citizens. If another country wants to take them, then they should, but Poland shouldn't be forced to keep them.

Click to shrink...

Nah. They aren't cowards. If folks don't want to fight, they should never be forced to.

Poland should be forced to keep refugees because that's kinda the point of having international law around refugees.

That people can't accept the hard truth that Ukrainians who have stayed and fight need help and those that fled should come home to help fight? This is an existential war against a country that is genociding Ukrainians and want to reabsorb Eastern Europe. It's a shitty situation for Ukrainians abroad.

Click to shrink...

Yes, it's an existential war for Ukraine but that doesn't mean folks have to fight in it if they don't want to.

It's an existential fight for survival. I'm typically against compulsory service, but when it's for the defense of your country. That changes things

Click to shrink...

Compulsory service is always for defense of a country. It's not for funsies.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

That people can't accept the hard truth that Ukrainians who have stayed and fight need help and those that fled should come home to help fight? This is an existential war against a country that is genociding Ukrainians and want to reabsorb Eastern Europe. It's a shitty situation for Ukrainians abroad.

Click to shrink...

Then go volunteer, you were provided a link.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'm mainly opposed to this for sexism reasons - if you're going to force people to fight, women shouldn't be excluded.

Click to shrink...

there are plenty of women in the Ukrainian armed forces.

Um, do you think Ukrainians are born battle-ready? Like you just described Ukrainians living abroad. They don't have military experience. Weird comment.

Click to shrink...

it's also unfair to leave the bulk of the fighting to the people who stayed in Ukraine. if they don't fight there's no more Ukraine and then they get absorbed into the russian forces to attack other countries.

 

[BringBackSonics]

Do I want Russia to win? No. Do I also think it's fine to force someone to fight in a war against their will? No. If that causes Russia win, that's how the cookie crumbles.

Click to shrink...

When your stance is being okay with genocide because you don't think a country facing an existential crisis like this, shouldn't be able to force its own citizens to take a hand in their people's very survival, might be time for some reflection.

And describing genocide with the 'that's the way cookie crumbles'. Is in poor taste imho

 

[PatAndTheCat]

Nah. They aren't cowards. If folks don't want to fight, they should never be forced to.



Yes, it's an existential war for Ukraine but that doesn't mean folks have to fight in it if they don't want to.



Compulsory service is always for defense of a country. It's not for funsies.

Click to shrink...

no one wants to fight in a war throughout all of history. Sometimes governments must do the difficult thing and require their people to fight. Russia cannot be allowed to win this war. The Western way of life in Europe is at stake.