It's funny to say this and then go back and not have to deal with the actions of actually being in a war. Also, it's funny how it's only men who will have to be forced into this. It's all words no actions here. That's why pro-draft people have no backbone. You wouldn't do the same thing trust me.
"You should abandon your family and fight for your country", say people who know they will never have to
I would say. What's stopping anyone here?
Everyone involved knows whats at stake here. The men who fled Ukraine instead of joining the military and fighting, know whats at stake, and chose to save themselves, instead of fighting for the cause.
I'm not pro-conscription, but I think the answer here is obvious. It's not our country being invaded. I'd be willing to fight if it was my country at risk, I'm not willing to go to war for some other country. That's likely everyone's answer to this question.
Massive yikes is people living far away from this confict trying taking moral high ground because it's easy to say as it will not affect them.
Unless the border runs straight through the village which non ukrainians are neighbors with ukrainians? First and foremost it's up to ukrainians to defend their own culture, language and national identity.
I agree with you here (and most of your posts actually)
Yeah, it's a tough situation and I think people are mostly commenting on what they would do in similar circumstances. I don't believe in shaming people for not going to war, but I do see why people here are in favor of the concept of conscription given the circumstances.
But there isn't a choice really. Someone has to die, either by fighting or allowing the enemy to annihilate your citizens. War is wrong, conscription merely a necessary evil.
I agree, it's easy to say and modern warfare truly terrifies me. We should be sending troops to help Ukraine, but sadly our leaders are scared of Putin.
I thought about it when the invasion started, but I'm currently relieved from reserve during peace time, due to health reasons. If I'm fit to serve in the future, I'll think about it again.
Yup, Russia is basically Nazi Germany 2.0 now, but the concentration camps haven't been built.. yet.
Most of us didn't, we were too naive to think that Russia could change. Never again.
You could just as easily say that it's very easy to dismiss conscription as wrong or disgusting when it's not your own country being threatened by an invader.
Exactly. Like this nonsense:
This is the kind of self-righteous, binary thinking that completely ignores the reality of war, particularly from the perspective of the people suffering from hostile invaders. Go tell Finns who still have a Finland today thanks to conscription, or survivors of the nazis, how disgusting they are. That is, if they can even hear you all the way down from your moral high horse.
Is this some weird personal attack or something? This is my only main account, and yeah you don't seem to have any backbone saying this stuff at the safety of your pc.
It's also just a really dumb gotcha, because the idea being defended here is conscription to fight to defend your own country from invaders, not joining another country's defense...
----
----
---
---
----
The fact that you would feel very differently about fighting for your country depending on which country you lived in is exactly my point.
I don't think we really disagree, I just took a bit of issue with your "its way way easier to say that on video game forum 1,000s of miles away from the conflict", since it can be applied to both sides of the debate.
Posts talking about the morality of Ukraine's draft ignores the present problem. Poland (and any other country hosting Ukrainian refugees) have to decide whether to let them stay or deport them. Under international law, a refugee is someone who fled their country because of genuine fear of persecution based on their race, religion, or nationality. This means every genuine refugee is the result of wrongdoing by someone else. It is incompatible with the purpose of the refugee convention to violate it by deporting refugees to force them to fight against their oppressors, then blame your choice on the oppressor.
To clarify, I completely understand opposition to the draft too, and have said as much repeatedly. I just don't agree with painting those defending the idea of Ukraine using conscripts as evil and disgusting or whatever.
Yeah this is where I'm at.
Nobody should have to be forced to fight in a war. But when the war comes to you you are forced to fight or die in it anyway. If tanks rolled into my city I hope I wouldn't just pack up and tell the people I care about "well I'm off, see those of you who are still here when the dust settles later".
