Police Fire at Hong Kong Protesters on Second Day of Extradition Bill Reading

Smoothcb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
128
Man China doesn’t even care about hurting/killing their own people. They’ll have no problem with hurting HKers.
The Chinese would be truly delusional if they don't think a violent suppression would have serious repercussions to their economy. I'd expect global sanctions--which would lead to the halting of economic growth and the downfall of the CCP.
 

Keuja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
967
Wow 1 in 4 protested and the overall total includes the kids, elderly etc. That's insane. You guys are inspiring.
 
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kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
The Chinese would be truly delusional if they don't think a violent suppression would have serious repercussions to their economy. I'd expect global sanctions--which would lead to the halting of economic growth and the downfall of the CCP.
I agree. They took one hell of a hit to their reputation back in the 80s when international news was much less of a focus, media coverage was less robust, etc... Repeating something similar in the age of social media and smartphones that would record the atrocities from thousands of angles would be a disaster for China.
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,887
I remember there was a time when it was blasphemous to think the PRC could take over Hong Kong because they need HK to be free to prevent an uprising.

Well who’s laughing now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,413
Hong Kong should become independent of China. The place will drastically change when China gets a firm grip on it. The world watches as an authoritarian government basically legislates its way to takeover. Shameful the rest of the world isn't pushing on China.
 

Somnid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,114
The Chinese would be truly delusional if they don't think a violent suppression would have serious repercussions to their economy. I'd expect global sanctions--which would lead to the halting of economic growth and the downfall of the CCP.
They're too powerful now. Nobody wants to risk China's economy because they are too attached to it and they continue to try and enter the market due to promises of wealth, enough that they ignore the human rights abuses that were already blatant. This was intentional, it's why the CCP have to keep up the illusion of growth because if it stalled then people start asking questions. But global sanctions are unlikely because it makes people uncomfortable, it's ironically, completely irrational stuff like the US tradewar that poses the largest threat because the US is taking that one on the chin out of spite and businesses are re-evaluating whether the status quo is safe.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
Is there anything the international community can do to keep CCP at bay?
Write to your representatives and ask them to speak out about the issue (extradition bill and police brutality) and push for sanctions/freezing of assets/visas of Hong Kong legislators supporting the bill.

Here is one example of the petitions worldwide being put forward by supporters of the protest:

 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
Yeah but my point is they won't be able to do it that openly in HK, compared to the persecution of the Uyghurs for example. Anyway just hoping this won't end in bloodshed.
Most likely they'll kidnap the main instigators back to mainland China to be tortured/never to be seen again. This is why a lot of these protests are not organised by a single body. Having someone in control at the top is a weakness that the CCP can exploit. Random people in large numbers is what is needed. There's no way Beijing can do much about that without sending in troops and tanks.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
The Hong Kong Governmemt released a statement saying that Chief Executive Carrie Lam has apologised to the Hong Kong people for not listening to them.

The government said in a statement on Sunday that the city’s leader has accepted responsibility for recent clashes that broke out between police and protesters opposing the controversial bill: “The chief executive admits that large-scale confrontation and conflict took place in Hong Kong society due to the inadequacy of the government’s work, causing many residents to be disappointed and saddened,” it read.

“The chief executive apologises to the public, and promises that [she] will accept criticism in the most sincere and humble way,” they added.

She has not however apologised for the police brutality and injuries caused to protesters on Wednesday and still refuses to stand down.

This is quite a turn of events, all in just one week! They totally ignored last Sunday's 1 million strong protest and went ahead with the second reading on Wednesday. She came out in a TV interview later that day during the police crackdown and unrest, comparing herself and the protesters to that of a mother teaching her children a lesson. On Saturday she held a press conference stating that the bill would be suspended for now, but she would not apologise as it was the right thing to do. Now a complete week later, today on Sunday with 2 million strong out there, she is already going back on it and apologising. I wouldn't be surprised if she resigned by the end of next week.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,830
I wouldn't be surprised if she resigned by the end of next week.
Aren't the demands now for her to resign?

Even if she did it won't make a difference. The largest power bloc in Hong Kong is pro mainland. She's replaceable.

The outlawing of the political blocs that supported the bill is the only solution but obviously that won't ever happen even though Lam has done so to her political opponents.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
Aren't the demands now for her to resign?

Even if she did it won't make a difference. The largest power bloc in Hong Kong is pro mainland. She's replaceable.

The outlawing of the political blocs that supported the bill is the only solution but obviously that won't ever happen even though Lam has done so to her political opponents.
The original demands were for her to resign and for the bill to be withdrawn completely.

She's replaceable, but it'll make other replacement candidates a bit more weary about how to steer this. It's literally political suicide because you risk ruining your career forever and also incurring the wrath of Xi Jinping because of the mess it has caused. I could actually see the bill being shelved completely because no one is taking her or any pro-bill persons' bullshit anymore.

Hong Kong is still somewhat semi democratic as 35/70 seats are up for elections. If the bill can be stalled until the 2020 Legislative Council elections and the Pan-Democrats take the majority of these seats, a big blow can be deal to pro-CCP power.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
Some pictures of today's march from Stand News HK:

Crowd from Hennessy Road:




Protesters move to let emergency services through the crowd:


Vigil for Mr Leung who jumped off the building yesterday:
 

MilesQ

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,980
The yellow jacket suicide is all everyone I know from HK is talking about. Seems to have triggered a lot more people to take part in the protests from what I can gather, but people are still cautious as fuck. Lots of people apparently aren't using their Octupus cards any more so the police can't track them back after the protests.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,830
The original demands were for her to resign and for the bill to be withdrawn completely.

She's replaceable, but it'll make other replacement candidates a bit more weary about how to steer this. It's literally political suicide because you risk ruining your career forever and also incurring the wrath of Xi Jinping because of the mess it has caused. I could actually see the bill being shelved completely because no one is taking her or any pro-bill persons' bullshit anymore.

Hong Kong is still somewhat semi democratic as 35/70 seats are up for elections. If the bill can be stalled until the 2020 Legislative Council elections and the Pan-Democrats take the majority of these seats, a big blow can be deal to pro-CCP power.
They don't even have to shelve it, right? Wasn't an early demand "pass it but exclude the mainland"?
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,167
So China will mass in protest and fight for their country but the US citizens will just sit on our buts and not fight for the children locked up in dog cages, malnutrition at the border?

Our country has some bad priorities...
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,242
So China will mass in protest and fight for their country but the US citizens will just sit on our buts and not fight for the children locked up in dog cages, malnutrition at the border?

Our country has some bad priorities...
You'd see it if most of the US lived in, say, Maryland. It's a density thing, for HK and for Paris. Their seats of government are in the most densely populated area in their jurisdiction. Our seat of government is smack dab in the middle of nowhere, this is by design actually.
 

VectorPrime

Member
Apr 4, 2018
8,385
So China will mass in protest and fight for their country but the US citizens will just sit on our buts and not fight for the children locked up in dog cages, malnutrition at the border?

Our country has some bad priorities...
It’s easier for an entire country to take to the streets when the entire population is as small and denser than that of New York City.
 

Hexa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,796
I read through some of the stuff some mainlanders were posting about it and was pretty surprised how similar it is to the type of stuff that was posted in relation to the Trump protests (paid protesters, foreign intelligence, political stunt, people with no jobs, etc.) Everyone drinks the kool-aid, just different flavors.
 
Apr 17, 2019
376
Viridia
I read through some of the stuff some mainlanders were posting about it and was pretty surprised how similar it is to the type of stuff that was posted in relation to the Trump protests (paid protesters, foreign intelligence, political stunt, people with no jobs, etc.) Everyone drinks the kool-aid, just different flavors.
Stupidity kool-aid is available everywhere for everyone sadly.
What else are the mainlanders going to say anyway? At least on their own internet, they're censored to hell and back. Hell even news about the protests were censored there no? This is part of the reason HK must not become just another mainlander city.

Just read about the suicide. I thought it was accidental at first but if he really martyred himself for the cause...damn.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,041
Why is china forcing it when they can just run out the clock?
This isnt some sports game with China in the lead. They know the longer they let HK practice western ideologies, the harder it will be to "integrate" HK in to their rule. They have already started by letting main landers infiltrate HK society by means of important social positions like goverment, police, teachers, etc. Its in their interest to slowly ramp up the pressure every year and just suffocate the dissenters.
 

Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,235
So many people standing up and refusing to let this go through is awe inspiring. Brave people, especially knowing what China once did to another famous protest. Not that they might be as heavy handed here but the memory remains. May the people of Hong Kong suceed.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,242
This isnt some sports game with China in the lead. They know the longer they let HK practice western ideologies, the harder it will be to "integrate" HK in to their rule. They have already started by letting main landers infiltrate HK society by means of important social positions like goverment, police, teachers, etc. Its in their interest to slowly ramp up the pressure every year and just suffocate the dissenters.
I was wondering too and this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
They don't even have to shelve it, right? Wasn't an early demand "pass it but exclude the mainland"?
I guess. But then it feels rather pointless from the Hong Kong Government's perspective because Carrie Lam keeps banging about how it is meant to plug the loophole in the one country two systems arrangement. She is basically losing all arguments to keep pushing it because Taiwan said they don't want the suspect if the law is passed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,106
This isnt some sports game with China in the lead. They know the longer they let HK practice western ideologies, the harder it will be to "integrate" HK in to their rule. They have already started by letting main landers infiltrate HK society by means of important social positions like goverment, police, teachers, etc. Its in their interest to slowly ramp up the pressure every year and just suffocate the dissenters.
makes sense, that way when the time comes HK will be really easy to integrate
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
This isnt some sports game with China in the lead. They know the longer they let HK practice western ideologies, the harder it will be to "integrate" HK in to their rule. They have already started by letting main landers infiltrate HK society by means of important social positions like goverment, police, teachers, etc. Its in their interest to slowly ramp up the pressure every year and just suffocate the dissenters.
makes sense, that way when the time comes HK will be really easy to integrate
But the fact is, Beijing's meddling has had the complete opposite effect and Hong Kongers are only doubling down on their efforts to remain more anti-CCP. If anything Beijing keeping quiet would've been a much safer choice. Poke your stick at the last moment when it matters. They've been constantly poking at Hong Kong ever since the handover and it's only taught them to raise their shields harder than ever before.

If it is to be believed that Carrie Lam herself instigated this bill, then she is in big trouble with Xi. The backlash has only made reintegration much harder and now the international community is watching Hong Kong much closely.
 

Kuma Bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,236
Japan
I'm curious about the situation in the long term. I think Hong Kong is to be run under a different system until 2050 or something like that.

In that year, China will run it under the same system they do for the rest of the country. In the short term these protests are great but I doubt it will have much impact to their situation in the long term.

I did read about Hong Kong trying being independent but I doubt China would allow such a thing to happen.

In conclusion, I view this as a battle in a war. It might be a win today but my mind focuses on the long term.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,056
The scope of these protests is completely awe inspiring. Hong Kong showing the rest of the world how it's done. Much respect to everyone in HK.
 
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Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
I'm curious about the situation in the long term. I think Hong Kong is to be run under a different system until 2050 or something like that.

In that year, China will run it under the same system they do for the rest of the country. In the short term these protests are great but I doubt it will have much impact to their situation in the long term.

I did read about Hong Kong trying being independent but I doubt China would allow such a thing to happen.

In conclusion, I view this as a battle in a war. It might be a win today but my mind focuses on the long term.
2047. Independence is but a pipe dream. It's not realistic. Especially considering all the fresh water comes from the mainland. What a lot of people are interested in and could possibly achieve (but still very difficult) is to maintain the 'one country, two system' arrangement past 2047. It's a good compromise if it could win near unanimous support from most of the population.

The long term is already very unstable because of what has happened. Hong Kong is meant to become more pro-CCP, not more anti-CCP. It's become more anti-CCP since the handover. There were even pro-communist riots in the 1960s! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1967_leftist_riots) These days it's hard to find a big group of CCP supporters who aren't paid for their support. Those who do, do it for the money lining their pockets, and not the ideology/loyalty. They are only loyal to wherever the money is.
 

teacup

Member
Oct 28, 2017
348
What is weirdly hilarious about all this is that if China just didn’t rock the boat and stopped meddling they would have their island enclave safe from CCP ideologies (and lets be honest they don’t care if HK are “true believers” - they care that it’s a great base for western money to come in safely) and the HKers would enjoy a healthy economy and... shock horror, not really care. If the HK economy is good and you don’t make stupid moves like this extradition stuff then eventually people won’t care.

Personally I wish there was some way to force China to let HK go but I know it won’t happen. Up thread someone said if China opened fire it’d cause international condemnation and be the downfall of the CCP- I doubt it. Russia took chunks out of Ukraine and got away with it. You think the second largest economy in the world can’t handle it? I’d be worried if I was in HK
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,495
HK will sadly end up been integrated fully in 30 years unless mainland China goes and overthrows the CCP which isn't happening anytime soon.
I am proud of Hong Kong and everyone who protested. I'm not sure I have ever seen a protesters gathering at such a scale be peaceful. i am not sure what the end game will be, but for HK it has to be a battle at a time to try to protect what freedom and rule of law we have.

30 years might go quickly but it's also a long time for HK and China. Who knows how China will be in a decade , let alone 3. And that's time for a whole new generation. The people of Hong Kong didn't use to care too much about politics, but somehow after handover, PRC have against their own wishes created a more politically minded and aware generation than ever existed before.