I just don't see it being adopted, gender is soo ingrained into the language and Spanish people are PROUD of Spanish, many of them have the mentality that it's a superior language to English.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Politico: "Democrats fall flat with ‘Latinx’ language"
- Thread starter RetroRunner
- Start date
- Status
I've constantly wondered about who they're polling with this kind of stuff, since I'm sure we'd see the same type of opinions with the population at large with the use of pronouns, and I always think, "Why should I care what the majority think when the people who need this aren't a part of that population?"
I appreciate you speaking on this.
Exactly. If someone explicitly says they're latinx I will use it for them. I would also ask what they think about latine out of curiosity and if that's okay too.
Too many responses read like they either don't know the term was created by and for trans and non binary community members or they do know and they don't care.
It definitely feels like we're being talked down to when politicians use it. That's about as far as my feelings with the word go.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary Around Inclusive Language
Always seemed like an unnatural, manufactured term made up by someone with no actual appreciation for the spanish language or its people.
And don't get me wrong, the intent may have been good, but the execution was terrible. Glad people are starting to see the term for what it is.
And don't get me wrong, the intent may have been good, but the execution was terrible. Glad people are starting to see the term for what it is.
i don't remember exactly which video that gif comes from, but the guy's name is amrit bains. He has an extensive filmography, and it's all lovely.
White Canadian here, I don't want really want to add any view of my own, in that I don't think it'd be worth anything.
Mostly I'm trying to understand the objection to the term, in that it's about using a gender neutral term in languages that are gendered. That's not something I really feel I could go Yay This, Nay That on anything involved, my only real thoughts on the term are in it strikes me as inclusive of non-binary folks who'd use it.
Like I guess the way I'm understanding it at the moment is that it's a term for NB people in a language that lacks one and that's really all I see it as, but I'm also someone lacking reference to the larger picture. Obviously this would not be as big a tussle if it was solely about gender neutral terminology for people who need it.
Mostly I'm trying to understand the objection to the term, in that it's about using a gender neutral term in languages that are gendered. That's not something I really feel I could go Yay This, Nay That on anything involved, my only real thoughts on the term are in it strikes me as inclusive of non-binary folks who'd use it.
Like I guess the way I'm understanding it at the moment is that it's a term for NB people in a language that lacks one and that's really all I see it as, but I'm also someone lacking reference to the larger picture. Obviously this would not be as big a tussle if it was solely about gender neutral terminology for people who need it.
I'm a cis pan Chicano and I use Latinx. Most Latinx people I know use Latinx or are indifferent (Southern California). Only one person I have ever met in person who hated it was a conservative Latina in my old master's cohort.
You really should read the thread before dropping nonsemse like this.
A lot of progressive language on this site is automatically attributed to white academia...in the same way that a lot of culture is appropriated by white people.
How the fuck are you supposed to say out loud "joto" or "puto" or "Maricón" and not sound stupid?
Get a good answer from those people who use those words, and get them to stop using those words, and I'll stop needing Latinx as a way to feel seen and safe around my people. All words are fucking made up. We make up new ones all the time. Spanish speakers have made up words to talk about new technological concepts as they've come up, just like they have everything else. Why is this the one area where the language can no longer evolve?
Very good point, and thank you. At least in the US, we know LGBT people aren't all that much of the population - so to the extent it is primarily LGBT Latinx people who use that word, of course the polling is going to reflect not much use. But nope nope nope, folks here are eager to erase us and say that such data means no one ever uses Latinx, and therefore no one ever should.
All I desperately want is to be part of my own people. Latinx is the only word that lets me do that. Fuck right off.
Thanks, folks (:
Hispanic feels is too broad most times, hell Latino is too broad a lot of the times to encapsulate the average way you discuss your background, heritage, etc in Spanish. Its difficult to make it a 1:1 translation into English in a way that is meaningful for non native Spanish speakers though. If I meet a Brazillian, neither of us is going to introduce ourselves as being Latino if we're shooting the shit. Hell, if I meet another Mexican, I'd expect for them to describe themselves as whatever part of Mexico they're from if we're talking in Spanish. Call one of my good friends el Michoacano for the very fact that he's from Michoacan. The way these things are talked about in Spanish always seems way too granular to ever make a meaningful distinction in English. At this point I assume if the average American is talking about Latinos, they're probably just thinking Mexican if they're closer to the west coast or some sort of Dominican on the east coast. The buckets are just too big vs the effort Americans are willing to put in to distinguish.
I think the term should be used with those who identify with it. Same with Latine. But I agree with you, trying to "ungender" Spanish is not going to happen without the language being fundamentally different. I think the issue at the heart of the pushback is the term being used to identify general groups instead of individuals, that was always going to end in a quagmire.
Nah, it's absolutely infused with a larger backlash against acceptance of certain identities, so-called political correctness, efforts to make language more gender inclusive, and so on. You don't see "latine" being targeted as much because the backlash is fundamentally visceral, unexamined, and that particular word just isn't infused with the sort of baggage "Latinx" has been.
The pronunciation thing is overstated. For one thing, language isn't that rigid: we absorb words with foreign pronunciations all the time, including Spanish, which has borrowed a large number of English words, and pronouncing Latinx perfectly is hardly essential to its utility. Either way, I think it's totally okay if Latinx is a term that mostly has currency in bilingual Hispanic American communities. That doesn't make it inherently offensive.
You're never going to fully "ungender" any language. That doesn't have to be the end result to make it useful to add gender neutral terms.
I only heard someone say "latinx" the other day for the first time and was shocked it was "latin-ecks" rather than "latin-cks."
I don't have a problem with latinx or Latino. Everyone has a right to the label that they feel best identifies them, and everyone else should respect that.
What I do have a problem with is when people use latinx as a catch-all label. People have a right to identify with whatever label they like, but that doesn't extend to a right to force everyone else to identify with any particular label; especially one that 98% of us don't identify with. It is the opposite of inclusivity. If you really want to be inclusive, say any permutation of "latino, latina and latinx".
I am not Hispanic but have a wife and child that fall into this discussion. Whenever possible, I tend to refer to people by their place of origin. Like they are Mexicano, Puerto Rican, Cuban, not Hispanic or Latino. If I do not know where they are from or their culture then maybe but I'd try to find out more info to give more credit to their background.
I would much rather people understand and refer to my family (again I am not this) as Mexican than Latino/Hispanic where possible. Each demographic has different issues and cultures so I tend to feel breaking it down by each group is good, though of course many issues are also universal too.
I would much rather people understand and refer to my family (again I am not this) as Mexican than Latino/Hispanic where possible. Each demographic has different issues and cultures so I tend to feel breaking it down by each group is good, though of course many issues are also universal too.
Joseph M. Pierce is the Associate Professor of Latin American and Indigenous Studies at Stony Brook University. He tweets about the Latinx controversies fairly often, and his arguments are worth checking out, but I found this article he mentions to be the most comprehensive take on it:
Mexican X Part X: What the Hex a 'Latinx'?
Mexican X Part X: What the Hex a 'Latinx'?
That's fair I guess. Respect their term and leave it at that. Thought it was a fair question but can see how my tone could be off. 👍
Another shit post. Jfc...Latino/Latina please, latinx sounds like we're XMen
Yeah the gif was too much, I deleted it and cleared it up.
Latinx I know was made for NB and yet, I think NB use Hispanic
It's still a terrible post mocking a term someone ITT has expressed is important to them.
You can ask to not be called it, but mocking it the way you did "sounds like we''re X-Men" is shit.
Whoa Latin@ is clever, tho unfortunately impossible to pronounce.
I don't know what to tell you, people who are not fans of the word are proposing "latine" in this very thread. I'm one of those, and for what is worth I'm gay and I have no intention of "protecting" the sanctity of gender or the Spanish language.
You're right, we have adopted lots of words from English - then proceeded to mispronounce them to death. No one in say, Mexico, pronounces Google, Netflix, or Starbucks the same way English speakers do. You end up with "gúgul" (a good example of how we suck at word that end in a consonant cluster), "yutub", "estarbocs", "netflis", etc.
It's a losing battle. It's not going to happen, at least in Spanish speaking countries. And that's not an attack against any identity.
Yes it is.
You do not yet to propose other words for people to use when they have one they idenify with. It doesn't matter, at all, about the way you think language should be.
Sadly, that's the case.
Mexico still use homophobic slurs in soccer games and while the comedy has toned down to exclude homophobia, it still edges to the surface.
If you're telling me to call someone "latinx" - I can do that, I speak English.
Would it be problematic if my mother mispronounces it?
Technically speaking there is a neutral gender in Spanish in some situations. It's not so clear like German for example but it does exist. Problem is neutral nouns are... masculine. You only change pronouns and articles. Sometimes. It's weird.
So latine seems like a good solution, latinx I don't know, all the latin people I've met refer themselves as latina/o and that's it. Better yet, by their country of origin.
So latine seems like a good solution, latinx I don't know, all the latin people I've met refer themselves as latina/o and that's it. Better yet, by their country of origin.
I agree, there is nothing wrong with adding them for general use, needed in fact. My point was that the push back comes from framing them as the correct broad identifier, that will just create needless friction. I think for the majority of Spanish speaking folks (who do not have the background in its origin or appreciation for its use) it does appear forced. We just need to keep working on educating folks so that they can dissipate the terms as affronts against their language and instead as extending it to be more inclusive.
I've seen it mainly used by trans people who speak Spanish and want representation. I have no problem with it.
I'm not sure this is the case when so many people even in this thread don't like the word at all.
I'm not sure this is the case when so many people even in this thread don't like the word at all.
No? We can't all pronounce words perfectly that are required to be respectful, we do our best.
The issue is was highlighting, that you sidestepped there, was that you do not have the right to propose alternatives to those who identify with it. That is really shit.
2% of people in the US. It's a wide world out there. There is a relatively large Brazilian population in my country and I've heard the term regularly. Also many times on different media.
I apologize. I took it down.
It's just I just know the Hispanic community has violently rejected it and it's just a battle that will sadly never be won. The latin community still can't comprehend the non binary spectrum.
They just see it as a term white folk made up.
I dunno what's the answer honestly.
I remember Biden or Harris used the term and it got this weird blowback like he said a slur.
I'm not coming up with any word myself, latine is already way more common with Mexican LGBT YouTubers.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Spreading Misinformation Around Inclusive Language
Never heard anyone use it who isn't white, female, extremely educated, and painfully conscientious. A solution for a problem that never was.
(I'm sorry this was an inconsiderate post, it reflected my limited perspective)
(I'm sorry this was an inconsiderate post, it reflected my limited perspective)
Last edited:
I'm going to have to disagree with that. You really think there is no issue with homophobia or transphobia in the entire Spanish speaking community.
Then they need to learn to listen to trans people and those who identity with the term.
Which is the entire fucking problem.
Another terrible post.
Read. The. Thread.
It doesn't fucking matter.... You do not get to propose another identify for those who already have one.
You truly cannot comprehend this?
While I'm aware of the origin of the word, to me it still feels kind of like it's from the same "groan and roll your eyes" genre of new terms as "womyn." Maybe I'm being ignorant
edit: sorry, should have read more of the thread before posting this. It seems like it's more widely used than I'd assumed, and I hadn't thought about some of the arguments brought up. It still sounds super wonky/artsy-fartsy to me, but if that's how people genuinely want to be referred to then I guess that's just my own ignorance after all.
edit: sorry, should have read more of the thread before posting this. It seems like it's more widely used than I'd assumed, and I hadn't thought about some of the arguments brought up. It still sounds super wonky/artsy-fartsy to me, but if that's how people genuinely want to be referred to then I guess that's just my own ignorance after all.
Last edited:
- Status