https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/23/18507750/fortnite-work-crunch-epic-games
All of this sound like a nightmare, crunching for a release date that never comes
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Polygon: How Fortnite’s success led to months of intense crunch at Epic Games
- Thread starter Robaperas
- Start date
https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/23/18507750/fortnite-work-crunch-epic-games
All of this sound like a nightmare, crunching for a release date that never comes
You would think they made enough money to hire enough developers to work on a game of that scale. Guess you never make enough money for that when you're a game exec.
Money spent on a B Team is money not spent on Moneyhats to take down STEAM'S EVIL MONOPOLY.
Absolutely. I'm very glad that they're giving creators some of this money in the form of the Epic games store payment cut, but if they're not treating their own people right, that feels like an empty gesture to me. Staff up! People aren't even effective workers when they're working 80 or 10 hours a week.
Fortnite is literally printing money. You would think Epic could find a way to reduce the workload on their employees. I know throwing extra manpower (i.e., FTEs not contractors) at problems isn't always the answer, but it couldn't hurt to try.
People have been yelling and complaining about Apex's (admittedly) horrible Battle Pass, but if the alternative results in working conditions as described in the article then I'd rather have a shitty BP or no BP at all.
People have been yelling and complaining about Apex's (admittedly) horrible Battle Pass, but if the alternative results in working conditions as described in the article then I'd rather have a shitty BP or no BP at all.
Yeah I figured something like this was happening with how the game was being updated.
They've basically worked themselves into a hole because it's what the audience expects now.
They've basically worked themselves into a hole because it's what the audience expects now.
When you hit a goldmine with a trend it's about sucking corpses dry as quickly and efficiently as possible until the bubble bursts/next trend emerges.
It's the story that never ends. Reminds me of the Uncharted 3 Behind The Scenes videos, or Mass Effect 3 for that matter.
Evil Executive Stereotype: "Your hard work of 3+ years of making said game turned out a 90 on metacritic? Oh, that must mean you must be some kind of golden goose! You have 1 year to ship the sequel, and we know you'll manage because you just proved how talented you are! Just give us more of that!" $$$$$$
Really awful that one success isn't allowed to come alone. This culture needs to learn to give developers some space after one hard cycle of crunch. I actually really respect the cases where a successful game shipped and didn't cause the developer to immediately chase the money they could squeeze out from keeping the success alive.
Evil Executive Stereotype: "Your hard work of 3+ years of making said game turned out a 90 on metacritic? Oh, that must mean you must be some kind of golden goose! You have 1 year to ship the sequel, and we know you'll manage because you just proved how talented you are! Just give us more of that!" $$$$$$
Really awful that one success isn't allowed to come alone. This culture needs to learn to give developers some space after one hard cycle of crunch. I actually really respect the cases where a successful game shipped and didn't cause the developer to immediately chase the money they could squeeze out from keeping the success alive.
Welp, you either get Apex level of support or you get fortnite level of support at this cost.
The solution isn't as easy as hire more people. It's never been a solution.
The solution isn't as easy as hire more people. It's never been a solution.
Well it didn't take long for a thread about insane work practices to get pulled into the "STEAM ISNT A MONOPOLY" direction.
usually I don't have a problem with crunching for a project finish as a principle *for any field of business*. I worked for a semi-conductor chip design company, and we had to crunch at the end of projects for maybe 2 or 3 months (every couple years or so). that's understandable to me, and anyone who criticizes that type of crunch is BS and just don't know business
but this particular case sounds bad, because there is no "final release date" to work toward. that's actually BS
but this particular case sounds bad, because there is no "final release date" to work toward. that's actually BS
Wouldn't epic get more done and faster with more employees doing 40-45 hours instead of less employees but doing 60+ hours
Throwing people at software development doesn't really work in some direct fashion; it's not like adding people to an assembly line or adding another register / employee at a store.
And in this perpetual state of crunch adding people can be nearly impossible.
The "solution" is for Epic to slow down updates for a while, add people during that time, which will slow things down even more for a while, then possibly in the future they can have a better work/life balance. Without slowing down the release cycle nobody is ever going to get a break.
Well great, now I don't want to play Fortnite anymore. I haven't in months, but I was thinking about enjoying the Avengers thing this week. Guess I'll be sitting that out now.
This sounds almost exactly like where I work at. Plenty of PTO, but can't "really" use it. Damn.
This is the problem. I don't see the situation changing anytime soon. That sound like some miserable working conditions.
This is horrible and crunch should never be condoned in any industry but as an interesting side-bar on this becoming a normal news story:
I think the game industry has come much further in publicity and whistleblowing for shitty management practices than a lot of other industries stuck in their old ways. I'm an engineer and in my 10 years I have been through a ton of crunch, sustained long crunch, and never once has someone outed the companies to media or has it become public. My lawyer friends put in constant ridiculous hours that could easily be alleviated by hiring more attorneys.
Props to gamers, whistleblowers, and media for holding their feet to the fire and hopefully causing a tipping point. Wish it occurred in my industry.
My last engineering company had to break their "200 hour max vacation roll-over" rule for a couple years because people were worked so hard they couldn't use vacation and they near rioted when the company told them they couldn't carry over more than 200 hours.
I think the game industry has come much further in publicity and whistleblowing for shitty management practices than a lot of other industries stuck in their old ways. I'm an engineer and in my 10 years I have been through a ton of crunch, sustained long crunch, and never once has someone outed the companies to media or has it become public. My lawyer friends put in constant ridiculous hours that could easily be alleviated by hiring more attorneys.
Props to gamers, whistleblowers, and media for holding their feet to the fire and hopefully causing a tipping point. Wish it occurred in my industry.
My last engineering company had to break their "200 hour max vacation roll-over" rule for a couple years because people were worked so hard they couldn't use vacation and they near rioted when the company told them they couldn't carry over more than 200 hours.
They getting overtime paid for this? If not simple do your contracted hours and walk out the door..
Near weekly updates have to come at a human cost. Fuck this shit. I fucking hate Epic yo. I know its a problem in the entire industry but Epic is already on my shit list, fuck the hire ups more. Especially Tim.
Why do we hear of this only now? Kinda remarkable the quality of the game hasn't taken a splunge with what turnover they must have.
Suddenly Apex Legends taking it slow doesn't feel so bad anymore.
It's right in the article. Tey're using peer pressure to force people into overtime.
Suddenly Apex Legends taking it slow doesn't feel so bad anymore.
It's right in the article. Tey're using peer pressure to force people into overtime.
It's very hard to hire that many people, that's why they moved all their other teams into Fortnite.
A better question is why don't they slow down the updates a bit, because the game probably wouldn't suffer that much.
It's not an instantaneous solution. But hiring more people will help you reduce crunch. What a weird shilly thing to say.
Crunching is terrible, but it seems people don't read articles anymore.
Regarding why not hiring more:
Regarding the employees:
The game industry is harsh af.
Regarding why not hiring more:
Regarding the employees:
The game industry is harsh af.
It is that easy. Hire contingent/contractor workers. The budget is there.
Because is a way to crush the competition and keep the people constantly coming back to the game.
Does the game really need weekly updates? Like there are easy solutions to this problem, and it being like the biggest game in the world I feel their employees should definitely be sitting pretty. THEY earned it.
