Power battle - Final Fantasy 7 (Cloud/Sephiroth) vs Final Fantasy 16 (Clive/Ultima)
- Thread starter Master Chuuster
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11 and 14 Protags are way way above Lighting, like Multiversal.
While Lighting Ends up about below Universal along with Bhunivelze.
11 and 14 protags are above Ultemecia and Neo-Exdeath which are the strongest non MMO Characters (Well i guess not counting characters like Omega and Shinryu who travel the FF multiverse)
He was for roughly 20 minutes of his life, he straight up rewrote the rules of the world
They all get beaten in under 5 seconds by XI's protag..haha.
14's is a bit weird, because some of it is other characters doing things for you than enable you and others are you are just too filled with determination to lose.
But then you get your ass whooped by the most random of things because the game doesn't really separate out power all that well, which is why I think they aren't quite as powerful as people think they are. Hell, the XIV protag went to the end of the universe and almost lost a fist fight to someone who wasn't THAT powerful, comparison wise.
XIV's protag is very much powered by friendship, for better or worse.
I don't know, XIII-2 and LR gets pretty insane. In XIII-2 she becomes an agent of the Goddess and is forced to fight in Valhalla against a god killer in an endless loop, 24/7, for centuries. Then in LR she's basically Jesus Christ, and by the end of the game, 1v1's a god who has a Universe buster, Hypernova.
To be fair that fist fight happens literally after they just get done fighting a being that could actually be considered a god even compared to anything else in the story
Look I'm a FFXI stan, but leave the MMO folk out of this, it's just unfair :P
Though if we count NT scaling (lol) every Protag before Clive is Multiversal.
MMOs are weird, XI right now is being devoured by a force nothing can stop.
The Void canonically has connection to the MMO games and spans ann the FF games and spinoffs
XIV essentially consists of infinite different timelines existing separately from one another and so does XI.
Shit can get wild
Not that strong of a feat cosnidering what some of the FF protags (Cloud, Squall, Lighting have access to).
MMOs are weird, XI right now is being devoured by a force nothing can stop.
The Void canonically has connection to the MMO games and spans ann the FF games and spinoffs
XIV essentially consists of infinite different timelines existing separately from one another and so does XI.
Shit can get wild
While true, it does highlight my point that the XIV protag is very, very reliant on others (as they would have died otherwise).
This isn't a bad thing at all as it makes for a solid story, obviously.
They mentioned XIVs!
XI's world is always being devoured by a force nothing can stop (Atomos, Cloud of Darkness, etc.)
Its just a Tuesday for them.
Well, we didn't actually see Dion finish casting it, so we don't really know what it would've done to him.
Being reliant on others isnt that big of a flaw when you can just squeeze your orange crack rock and summon a squad LOL But yes they would have died
Yea, its definitely not a flaw at all, but it does keep the WOL at a "lower" power level since they rely so much on others and calling in the calvary for help.
Like I said, not a bad thing, its actually a good thing because its likely going to avoid a lot of where XI's story ends up going in terms of running out of plausible things to throw into your path that you cant just dismantle.
It does seem like Sephiroth is cooking up some high tier bullshit in Remake power wise. Like rewriting the timeline shit. So even if you beat him he will pull something out his ass and try again.
Clive has a similar feat I guess, but he needed God to set it up for him and it seemed to be too much for his body in the end.
Due to 13 Cosmology Bhunivelze (Lighting at the end and them are the strongest in there universe) and such taking 500 or so years to create the universe there on the lower end of the spectrum of Universal but Ultemicia was pretty much condensing time & space (pretty much merging with those concepts in that universe) within the universe pretty much tearing apart the fabric of the universe as she was gonna create her own till Squall and co beat her.
Just want to throw out there that Cloud beat Sephiroth in a 1v1 three times. Nibelheim at 16 years old (literally just tosses the fucker down a reactor Emperor style), end of FFVII, and Advent Children. I think Remake is the first time Sephiroth actually gets a win on him and even then he knows Cloud will get back there.
It's why these types of "who is stronger" questions never fully work. No matter how overpowered the villain is, if we see the hero beat them in the end, we already know who is stronger.
The 2nd spoiler is only a thing because Clive forgot to get an Eikon.
With it none of that would be a problem (theoretically).
Its why so many assume the next DLC is going to give 16 a new ending.
Sephiroth takes the win over Clive. FF16 was definitely flashier in set pieces but when it comes to raw feats/abilities, 16 falls behind.
Dissidia, unfortunately, can never include some of the most powerful characters in the franchise just because of bandwidth and the fact that some games would need a zillion reps.
Plus, going by Dissidia 1 & 2 - Exdeath is a literal idiot who even at level 99 falls for one move spammed over and over.
Now look here, if we're talking about endgame status, then Lightning is just a normal french girl taking a train ride in the real world.
Ah good point, though I kinda took that more as he wasn't the true perfect vessel, but just pretty close to it so the final spell was the point it broke vs absorbing the Eikons. Though that's more based on me thinking Ultima waiting thousands (? I forget if they actually say how long) years for "the one™️" was them just having evolution run it's course, which is why they basically just fucked off after awhile instead of it being something they had full control off.
Are we talking human Sephiroth or are we going full Safer Sephiroth? I feel like Clive takes Human Sephiroth but if we're going full lifestream mutated Safer Sephiroth that's a bigger question.
At the very least, Safer Sephiroth would require a full power Ifrit transformation.
haven't you seen Amélie? nothing in the universe is more powerful than a french girl who's a bit quirky
Oh come on now. You can't bring Manic Pixie Dream Girl power into this thread. That's just unfair.
The end of FFVII isn't a real fight, it's a metaphorical representation of Cloud overcoming Sephiroth's influence over him. The real fight against Sephiroth is with the full party (Bizarro -> Sepher). The black screen fight is just metaphor.
and he has a title drop, something no other FF main character could even dream of
bro literally kills Warrior of Light in an endless loop
I mean you don't even need that for Cloud to bisect any version of Clive
If we're including the Risen version then he's kind of broken. I don't think any other character can instant transmission through space while dodging hundreds of kamehameha blasts. Yes im using DBZ lingo because that's what it looked like. Ifrit also kind of opens his hand to create an explosion that caused this crater.
Cloud doesn't have feats of strength warranting this statement that's what these convos are based on
Clive got bodied by Barny with 1 arm behind his back, then when Clive came back for more he got bodied so bad the game gave Barny a victory screen. The only time he was able to beat Barny was when Barny was actually trying to lose.
Clive can't fight his way out of a paper bag.
Seph ez W ggwp
Clive can't fight his way out of a paper bag.
Seph ez W ggwp
They are also actually fighting though. Just because the fight has thematic elements doesn't mean the events within didn't happen. And even if you wanted to discount that for some reason, he still beats him in Advent Children.
LOL yes he does.
Going be even data books and Summon explanations, canonically Safer Sephiroth creates a universe to use Supernova which Cloud and co Survive along with Summons like KOTR summoning and destroying an universe when they are summoned and attack.
Zack during his invasion of Wutai when he defeats Bahamut is stronger then FF16.
Clive and Ultima only hit out at Planet level at the max end of the game, they get washed by any of the FF7 Weapons.
Not to mention Cloud has poison manipulation, barrier creation, Shapeshifting (Toad, Mini, Frog Song, etc), Time Manipulation (Haste, Slow, Stop) Petrification, etc.
Its not a knock on 16 I like the game, but it has no business fighting any of the high tier FF games.
Warrior of light even with infinite (?) time loops to get stronger and literally being GIVEN his ultimate equipment as a handicap never actually becomes powerful enough to take Jack out. He loses every time.
The "A different future" DLC ending (in which jack casually beats down
the emperor from FF2
There's uh...no version of Cloud or Clive that touches that guy. He smacks both down while casually walking off to Limp Bizkit victory music. Lightning Returns era Lightning is a "maybe."
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The Eikon versions of time manipulation, barriers and freezing etc were all accessible without much/any cast time in 16. Rift slip was an instant time stop on everything not named Clive which could be cast every few seconds. They gave him a GGST roman cancel.
It was more than just stop. Flying through it head on and through the other guy like Goku through King Piccolo.
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It really isn't lol.
Its mid tier at its strongest.
Meteor isn't the same in either verse.
Jack gets crazy strong in the end.
Up there with folks like Exdeath in the multiverse