It just means they both have requested features that AMD are working on implementing.
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PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
- Start date
It just means they both have requested features that AMD are working on implementing.
Yeah, I dunno. I personally interpreted it as work that has already been done e.g. RPM and [whatever the name of that thing that helps with the dynamic resolution upscaling stuff] for pro, and custom jaguar cores for X. Still though, could also reference future work as well
Good find, 2017 compliance reports were published 2/2018 and Navigation mode dropped 15 watts from the 2016 tests and now comply. According to a summary, Clock and power gating was first introduced in 2016 which accounts for the 15 watt drop between the 2016 and 2017 PS4 Navigation power.
July 2017 was too late to have Tier 4 apply to 2017 but Tier 4 could have applied in 2018 so why the delay till 2019 for Tier 4 to apply? New console definitions and full UHD (4K) compliance coming in 2019?
The description for Game Consoles has changed from UHD Capable Console (2016) to UHD console (2017) with two new Console definitions; UHD Media Console and Gaming Console (SRI 2.6 2018).
If a new PS4 is the Tier 4 (2019) UHD media Console, it's UHD media power cap is now the same as the HD media cap which the 2017 PS4 could not offer and the Pro could not do. If the PS4 Pro is the gaming console it complies. 2017 XB1 S and XB1 X comply with Tier 4 (2019) power caps and they appear to be UHD Media (XB1 S) and Gaming Console (XB1 X). Again, there is no reason Tier 4 could not apply for 2018.
The above could again be Sony not supporting 4K on the PS4 but still calling it a UHD console because it supports up to 1080P + HDR which require HDCP 2.2 and UHD definitions only fully apply for Microsoft?
Edit: Or the 2017 PS4s are fully 4K compliant and the new SRI 2.6 and 2019 Tier 4 applies to it also. HDMI 2.0 port was available, AMD shipped their first VM security GPU in 2016.
It's getting a little late to not support UHD 4K on the PS4. Since Sony does not have a ARM TEE and uses the GPU for codecs they are limited to trusted boot which only supports up to 1080P media so even the Pro has issues supporting 4K media DRM. If a new PS4 CPU and GPU supports Infinity fabric Security and has a memory controller that supports the same then the PS4 can fully support 4K DRM. It's assumed a GDDR6 memory controller developed by AMD would support Infinity Fabric security.
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The Su special.
Speaking seriously, I think she pretty much confirmed AMD is in both next gen consoles.
The general idea for my dream PS5's secret sauce
Too many yield and thermal concerns right now. We'll get there, maybe in time for next next gen.
For something like this, where might the RTX-style dedicated ray-tracing tech go? Assuming it'll still be needed/useful by then.
It's part of the GPU cores, whether they be called CUDA cores or whatever. Nvidia misled people and made it seem like a distinct chunk of silicon on die when it's really part of the repeated execution unit structure.
Oh, interesting. Yeah, I had also gotten the impression it was done kind of additional dedicated chip. Thanks for clearing it up.
I think is better to think in terms of Streaming Multiprocessor as the repeated unit of a Nvidia GPU at least until the Pascal architecture. However, I'm not sure how the tensor cores and the RTX cores are clustered in the Turing architecture. If I have to guess I would say that they are also grouped within the various SM.
edit: yep, they are clustered in the new Turing SM: https://videocardz.com/77895/the-new-features-of-nvidia-turing-architecture
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Yes, they're grouped by SM. I had forgotten about this tweet:
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Here's a cool chart of GPU size (and process technology) over time. In general, we're getting more GPU performance because GPUs are getting bigger in addition to process improvements. It remains to be seen if this means bigger die are becoming more economical, but I'd say the explosion of GPUs for research and other price-insensitive applications has enabled this jump. That would be good news for consoles if bigger die are becoming more feasible.
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https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/...-gaming-partnerships-with-sony-microsoft.html
AMD CEO Confirms Next Xbox & PS5 using 2 different secret sauces
AMD CEO Confirms Next Xbox & PS5 using 2 different secret sauces
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Could be its own thread? May generate a lot of discussion, idk.
Her actual statement is vague enough at she could be referring to the current consoles. I don't think she is, but the statement is vpague enough to excite people without confirming anything.
Not really vague just choosing words carefully. She clearly states they are working with (present tense) Sony and Microsoft and each have their own secret sauce (custom) requirements.
It does confirm Microsoft definitely are AMD and Nvidia are off the table (odds of both AMD/NV in the same console? 5000/1 anyone?)
Yea. I found that interesting and she seemed to imply that they were working with MS on it.
Pretty sure she's referring to Azure
https://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/microsoft-azure-becomes-2017dec05.aspx
https://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/microsoft-azure-becomes-2017dec05.aspx
https://www.globalfoundries.com/new...n-growing-demand-for-differentiated-offerings
GF is putting its 7nm FinFET program on hold indefinitely
Yes. Samsung is the only other option,
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Oh I think most people, including myself, agree she is referring to future consoles. The last one AMD did was Xbox One X, released 10 months ago, and announced over 2 years ago (Project Scorpio @ E3 2016).
And like I said, I too think she is talking about next gen consoles, but "confirmed" is too strong a word. She left room for plausible deniability.
And when she says that Mad Money's chyron says:
So...Mad Money's producers clearly didn't think she was referring to next gen consoles.
Two Words: Plausible Deniability
Lisa Su said:
And when she says that Mad Money's chyron says:
So...Mad Money's producers clearly didn't think she was referring to next gen consoles.
Two Words: Plausible Deniability
Huh, that was pretty obvious from the start... No one would have bothered Glofail.
I have always wondered about where the SoCs in the consoles are made. There was a single report from around 6 months into this gen where Wccftech said GF were about to make the console chips but never could back that up as happening. I also remember Microsoft only confirming Xbox One S SoCs would be made at TSMC the remainder of the year (2016) implying another source like, I assume, GF. Again no confirmation the chips have been made anywhere other than TSMC?
Another thing I can't work out is a phrase imprinted on both PS4 and Xbox One SoCs; "Diffused in Taiwan, Made in Malaysia". If Taiwan refers to TSMC then who does Malaysia refer to? TSMC don't make chips in Malaysia, right? If someone can explain this phrase I'd love to hear it.
The secret sauces are probably to the extent of ps4/xbox and the secret sauce element I doubht will give much of a performance boost compared to equivilent PC hardware.
Will be interesting how they market them and if either company will return to the hyperbolic marketing of the past.
Will be interesting how they market them and if either company will return to the hyperbolic marketing of the past.
What kind of 'secret sauce' we had in this current generation consoles? she definitely is talking about next gen consoles.
No need for that. I believe there is at least one Wccftech writer that is verified here. Maybe they could comment about that specific point?
Correct, first I also thought that the RT-Core might be part of one Sub-Core like Tensor Cores but they are implemented per SM not per Sub-Core.
AMD said they could produce at Samsung if necessary:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patric...14nm-manufacturing-with-samsung/#57483dc14e99
I'm not sure if it could be proved that some dies where produced at Samsung's 14nm Fab in Austin Texas but people looked at their batching code:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg/ryzen_reading_your_production_batch_number/
Interesting, thanks for the info. It would have been easier then given the GloFo/Samsung technology sharing agreement.
Again, "secret sauce" is vague. It could be anything: Extra L2 Cache for the Scorpio Engine or PS4 Pro's ID Buffer or some unknown next-gen sauce.
And again, I agree that Su is probably talking about next-gen consoles, but I do not agree that what she says "confirms" that AMD is working on next-gen consoles for both Sony and Microsoft. She is being intentionally vague.
If the next-gen consoles are due anytime before 2022, they need to be doing more than just talking to Sony and MS.
Ergo, AMD having the contracts is the only possible answer as far as I'm concerned.
(TBH, imo it's a given regardless of the comments. I don't really know what we're questioning it at this point.)
What I am questioning it people watching Su's Mad Money interview and going "Confirmed! Confirmed!" The interview lacked any substance. It's just Su hinting at what we all suspect already.
It's the fact that Su's usual guarded nature and refusal to talk about semi-custom wins was dispensed of. She deviated from established behavior, so vague references become a lot more impactful.
If the extra L2 cache for the scorpio engine or PS4 Pro's ID buffer could be secret sauce so PS4 Pro and it's Vega features like half-float operations (FP16) are the biggest secret sauces we've ever seen in console, right? imo, secret sauce should be something like discrete gpu or some kind of module to operate ray tracing etc.
I think the whole ESRAM thing in XB1 would be the biggest, though not necessarily effective, secret sauce.
I think the days of true secret sauces are gone. The PS3 had an entire CPU architecture built for it (and Xenon was derived from it). The Sega Saturn had a Byzantine organization of chips in it. The N64's GPU may not have made it to market were it not for the console.ESRAM is essentially EDRAM Mach 2 from X360.
There may end up being a long list of customizations in PS5/XB2, but they're still largely going to be Navi and Zen 2.
There may end up being a long list of customizations in PS5/XB2, but they're still largely going to be Navi and Zen 2.
Some new (?) info from reddit, nothing too special but might be interesting (also some stuff about 7nm/CPU/GPU at the link):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/9frgvu/amd_cfo_devinder_kumar_presents_at_2018_deutsche/
The way he phrases that makes it sound like neither Sony nor Microsoft have decided yet on going with AMD for next-gen consoles. But of course there have been many instances where companies have publicly said similar things, and behind the scenes, work was already in full progress or even complete. I think there can be several interpretations / explanations for his statement, and I guess as a publicly traded company, it's always some kind of balancing act between keeping confidential information secret and informing their investors.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/9frgvu/amd_cfo_devinder_kumar_presents_at_2018_deutsche/
The way he phrases that makes it sound like neither Sony nor Microsoft have decided yet on going with AMD for next-gen consoles. But of course there have been many instances where companies have publicly said similar things, and behind the scenes, work was already in full progress or even complete. I think there can be several interpretations / explanations for his statement, and I guess as a publicly traded company, it's always some kind of balancing act between keeping confidential information secret and informing their investors.
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So I just joined the combo and voted. What I'm actually surprised is at the amount of votes 2020 gets. If you don't mind me asking but what makes you think that 2020 is the year of the next gen?
I voted H1 2021. It just feels a more round date seeing how PS4 still piling on the money
I voted H1 2021. It just feels a more round date seeing how PS4 still piling on the money
2050 is the most round IMHO. Has a "2" for Xbox 2 and a "5" for PS5.
Oh come on :) If this was said few years ago-then yes,otherwise i can't take it seriously.
Interesting alternative to what Su stated on Cramer's show.
I think it's quite possible that either Sony or MS could compete the design in the architecure phase. Maybe AMD will call it a win when the product hits tapeout and there's a commitment to buy test and production masks (a several million dollar inflection point in the design and fabrication process).
Obviously they can't tapeout yet because Navi may not even have taped out yet, but Zen 2 has been described as "design complete."
I can't see how anyone could take his (understandable) non-answer as meaning they haven't even signed a contract with Sony/MS to design the chips.
The designs of these chips, assuming most here believe these consoles will release in 2020, are very close to or already complete never mind contracts being signed!
Matt , if you are reading this thread could you impart your wisdom on the timeline of these things once and for all?
The designs of these chips, assuming most here believe these consoles will release in 2020, are very close to or already complete never mind contracts being signed!
Matt , if you are reading this thread could you impart your wisdom on the timeline of these things once and for all?
