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When will the first 'next gen' console arrive?

  • H2 2019

    Votes: 638 14.1%
  • H1 2020

    Votes: 724 16.0%
  • H2 2020

    Votes: 2,813 62.2%
  • H1 2021

    Votes: 141 3.1%
  • H2 2021

    Votes: 208 4.6%

  • Total voters
    4,524
  • Poll closed .

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,077
How big can the chiplets and MCM be, vs a regular APU? Thinking about the cost of a 350sqmm APU die on launch PS4/XB1, for a similar cost could you get more surface area (and therefor encore performance) for CPU/APU using two chiplets?

Kind of like discrete cpu/GPU but interconnected well enough to still allow unified memory etc.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,914
Maryland
Their was that rumour forever ago about the ps5 possibly having a discrete GPU....could it be true?

In this context it could mean discrete die vs discrete package.

How big can the chiplets and MCM be, vs a regular APU? Thinking about the cost of a 350sqmm APU die on launch PS4/XB1, for a similar cost could you get more surface area (and therefor encore performance) for CPU/APU using two chiplets?

Kind of like discrete cpu/GPU but interconnected well enough to still allow unified memory etc.

It's a trade off between yield per wafer and construction complexity, along with any performance detriments by having the locality decoupled (higher latency).
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,077
In this context it could mean discrete die vs discrete package.



It's a trade off between yield per wafer and construction complexity, along with any performance detriments by having the locality decoupled (higher latency).

So once we hear some more on CCX size and how many cores per CCX, and MCM size - we can start speculating possible size options for the GPU
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Well it is to be fair. It is a datacenter chip though.

DrWD0VTVAAAvYmI.jpg


ETA: One of those 'chiplets' with less cache and other tweaks would be very nice in the next-gen console APUs.

I bet Kutaragi would love something a la Rome in PS5... ;)

Combined with ~ 5 TF GPU and 4 gigs of HBM3 with bus width of 4096 bits or so.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,894
ATL
I bet Kutaragi would love something a la Rome in PS5... ;)

Combined with ~ 5 TF GPU and 4 gigs of HBM3 with bus width of 4096 bits or so.

Wait you are saying that anyone on planet earth would want a 64-core datacenter chip paired with an underpowered 5TF GPU for a next-gen console?

I must be misunderstanding you lol.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Wait you are saying that anyone on planet earth would want a 64-core datacenter chip paired with an underpowered 5TF GPU for a next-gen console?

I must be misunderstanding you lol.

It was an old joke what Ken loved to put in his consoles: strong CPUs,underpowered GPUs and low amount of ultra fast memory,that's how story goes :)
 

Nachtmaer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
347
So once we hear some more on CCX size and how many cores per CCX, and MCM size - we can start speculating possible size options for the GPU
I've said it before, but I'm still betting on it staying at 4 cores per CCX. Adding a complete overhaul to the inter-CCX communication on top of all the changes they've mentioned so far seems way too crazy. After this talk it seems even more likely that AMD is more committed to improve IF's bandwidth and reduce the penalty of having to talk to other ones instead of adding more cores.

I have to admit that I thought the same about the whole chiplet + I/O die rumor that had been floating around since forever, so that was an interesting surprise. Although on paper it made a lot of sense, it just seemed early with 7nm being so new.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
On what planet is this happening?
On Planet ERA, where people who want overpriced consoles think they can "compromise", by releasing two SKUs.
As in, they don't consider the massive costs that such a dual release would incur, as well as the limitations the games would have to be to cater to the weaker hardware, making the expensive console pointless.

Sometimes I wonder why there is such a crowd who are absolutely fearful of PCs, and yet trying to push PC standards onto consoles. Consoles and PCs are separate for a good reason. Both have merits, but merging the two just gives you the worst of both words.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
On Planet ERA, where people who want overpriced consoles think they can "compromise", by releasing two SKUs.
As in, they don't consider the massive costs that such a dual release would incur, as well as the limitations the games would have to be to cater to the weaker hardware, making the expensive console pointless.

Sometimes I wonder why there is such a crowd who are absolutely fearful of PCs, and yet trying to push PC standards onto consoles. Consoles and PCs are separate for a good reason. Both have merits, but merging the two just gives you the worst of both words.
Dude lol. People really act like multiple SKUs aren't a thing platforms tried literally a gen ago and realized one was infinitely better lol
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
People asking for vastly different SKUs quite frankly don't understand economies of scale and how not simple or cheap it is
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,914
Maryland
IPC gains in the footnotes:

Estimated increase in instructions per cycle (IPC) is based on AMD internal testing for "Zen 2" across microbenchmarks, measured at 4.53 IPC for DKERN +RSA compared to prior "Zen 1" generation CPU (measured at 3.5 IPC for DKERN + RSA) using combined floating point and integer benchmarks.

That's a 29% gain over Zen. 23% over Zen+. I don't know the applicability of DKERN, but those are extremely promising numbers.


And based on this post, a Zen 2 die is only about 70-80mm^2. That includes PCIe but not memory controllers, and presumably up to 32MB cache. That's extremely good news for next gen consoles.
 
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SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,518
Chicagoland
I wouldn't be surprised if PS5, and/or the traditional next-gen Xbox use a Chiplet design, meaning several chip dies for CPU/GPU instead of a single monolithic APU.

If not, then certainly for PS5 Pro and Xbox Scarlett X, assuming there will be mid-gen upgrades 3-4 years after the base consoles release.

I don't think there will be multi tier SKUs at the same time, not counting the Scarlett streaming console.

21st February 2017:

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp...a_exascale_mega_apu_in_a_new_academic_paper/1
Building a large chip using several smaller CPU and GPU dies is a smart move from AMD, allowing them to create separate components on manufacturing processes that are optimised and best suited to each separate component and allows each constituent piece to be used in several different CPU, GPU or APU products.

For example, CPUs could be built on a performance optimised node, while the GPU clusters can be optimised for enhanced silicon density, with interposers being created using a cheaper process due to their simplistic functions that do not require cutting edge process technology.

This design method could be the future of how AMD creates all of their products, with both high-end and low-end GPUs being made from different numbers of the same chiplets and future consoles, desktop APUs and server products using many of the same CPU or GPU chiplets/components.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
IPC gains in the footnotes:



That's a 29% gain over Zen. 23% over Zen+. I don't know the applicability of DKERN, but those are extremely promising numbers.


And based on this post, a Zen 2 die is only about 70-80mm^2. That includes PCIe but not memory controllers, and presumably up to 32MB cache. That's extremely good news for next gen consoles.

That's really nice. Jaguar to Zen 2 is gonna be a huge jump.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
How i feel after spending $500 on the 9900k

200.gif

I hear you. This is why I scoffed at what they put their prices at compared to AMD. And when you factor in what boards cost for z390, you are better off waiting. I'm happy my b350 board will work with zen 2. Depending on what boards they have and what memory speeds they support. But even so bringing over my ddr4 3200 aint no thing.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
IPC gains in the footnotes:



That's a 29% gain over Zen. 23% over Zen+. I don't know the applicability of DKERN, but those are extremely promising numbers.


And based on this post, a Zen 2 die is only about 70-80mm^2. That includes PCIe but not memory controllers, and presumably up to 32MB cache. That's extremely good news for next gen consoles.
Could you translate this into how advanced fish AI will be next-gen?
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,765
Would this Chiplet design make it more feasible for say, Sony to integrate necessary hardware into their other electronics to make them compatible with their streaming service? For example, say Sony wants to make all of their Bravia TVs capable of accessing PS Now, would it now be a lot more cost effective to pick and choose whatever necessary elements from the Chiplet design to integrate into their TVs to make that possible?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,840
Australia
I wouldn't be surprised if PS5, and/or the traditional next-gen Xbox use a Chiplet design, meaning several chip dies for CPU/GPU instead of a single monolithic APU.

If not, then certainly for PS5 Pro and Xbox Scarlett X, assuming there will be mid-gen upgrades 3-4 years after the base consoles release.

I don't think there will be multi tier SKUs at the same time, not counting the Scarlett streaming console.

21st February 2017:

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp...a_exascale_mega_apu_in_a_new_academic_paper/1

I remember being told a while ago in this thread that GPU chiplets have performance issues that would make them unfeasible - is this no longer the case?

FWIW, at the time I was asking if it was possible for the PS5 to be made from a couple of 4c/8t Zen 2 CCXs, 4 3TF GPU pieces and 8-16 GDDR6 chips, with a PS4 Super Slim being made from 1 of those CCXs, 1 GPU 'piece' and 2-4 GDDR6 chips, using the same basic tech as the PS5 to run PS4 games.
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
601
I remember being told a while ago in this thread that GPU chiplets have performance issues that would make them unfeasible - is this no longer the case?

FWIW, at the time I was asking if it was possible for the PS5 to be made from a couple of 4c/8t Zen 2 CCXs, 4 3TF GPU pieces and 8-16 GDDR6 chips, with a PS4 Super Slim being made from 1 of those CCXs, 1 GPU 'piece' and 2-4 GDDR6 chips, using the same basic tech as the PS5 to run PS4 games.

Why going for that atrocity when you can put one ZEN2 8c/16t and a 12TF GPU?
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
601
That's why I think PS5 will probably use a conventional APU and if (IF) there's a PS5 Pro, it might use a Chiplet / MCM design, since going from 7nm to 5nm (with 7nm+ in between) won't be much of a shrink/performance increase, and 3nm is probably too far away.

It might use an APU but with the I/O stuff moved away from the monolithic die.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,840
Australia
Why going for that atrocity when you can put one ZEN2 8c/16t and a 12TF GPU?

I was under the impression that what I described would be exactly that, just built from separate pieces - or chiplets, if I'm understanding them correctly. The point would be that then, instead of having to pay to convert the PS4 architecture to 7nm, they would be able to make very large individual orders of these chiplets, and then make the PS4 Super Slim and the PS5 out of the same components, rather than making separate medium-sized orders of different components. Plus, a likely lower failure rate in manufacturing.

What I was asking was whether the chiplet design would be inferior to the monolithic design in other respects - if it would, then yes, I agree, not a good idea.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
I was under the impression that what I described would be exactly that, just built from separate pieces - or chiplets, if I'm understanding them correctly. The point would be that then, instead of having to pay to convert the PS4 architecture to 7nm, they would be able to make very large individual orders of these chiplets, and then make the PS4 Super Slim and the PS5 out of the same components, rather than making separate medium-sized orders of different components. Plus, a likely lower failure rate in manufacturing.

What I was asking was whether the chiplet design would be inferior to the monolithic design in other respects - if it would, then yes, I agree, not a good idea.

AMD has been working towards this chiplet paradigm for a long time. If the infinity fabric and I/O controller stuff works well enough they could easily be used in a next gen console. The 8 core Zen chiplet could be effectively off the shelf and easily upgraded as AMD continues to manufacture improvements.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Afaik the problem with chiplets is the connection between the parts. For CPUs, you don't need that much bandwidth (~100GB/s), so they are fine, but for GPUs you need a lot of bandwidth (~400-600GB/s). And that's just the connection to the memory. There might be much higher requirements regarding bandwidth / latency when it comes to the links between GPU chiplets.

That's probably why AMD is currently only using this technology for CPUs. But PS5 is rumored to "only" have 8 cores, which already exists in a single Zen 2 die. And with the GPU also only using one die, and limited I/O requirements, it might still be the best idea to just use an APU design, which will probably also provide additional advantages regarding latency and stuff. And yield improvements for using separate dies might not be that important, when the CPU part isn't that big in the first place.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
So with these info from zen2 , any hints to ps5 being 2019 or 2020 ?

Zen 2 is in the sampling stage and Navi is still in the design stage, with both probably launching by mid to late 2019 for consumers? So Sony doesn't really have much lead time for the APU or whatever they're doing to launch in the same year. I feel like it's unlikely, as much as I want it to.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Zen 2 is in the sampling stage and Navi is still in the design stage, with both probably launching by mid to late 2019 for consumers? So Sony doesn't really have much lead time for the APU or whatever they're doing to launch in the same year. I feel like it's unlikely, as much as I want it to.
Yeah that's how I feel as well. First batch will be ready towards the end of 2019 by amd and Sony needs Abit of time after that to assemble the Apu and put it in Mass production .so holiday 2020 is more likely .
Issue for 2019 is both cpu and gpu are not ready yet .
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Zen 2 is in the sampling stage and Navi is still in the design stage, with both probably launching by mid to late 2019 for consumers? So Sony doesn't really have much lead time for the APU or whatever they're doing to launch in the same year. I feel like it's unlikely, as much as I want it to.

Zen2 and Navi retail product launches in the PC space have little bearing on availability for Sony and MS as semi-custom customers.

Both architectural designs will be complete already, and at the current time AMD will be doing system engineering design for whatever products they intend to push out in 2019, for their semi-custom business or otherwise.

There little here to indicate towards a next gen console release date either-way.

It'l be 2020
 

FSmallhands

Member
Nov 3, 2017
356
Jesus. What the fuck does this all mean?

It means I really dont see how the next consoles cant be announced in the near term.

The thought it could the second half of 2020 (24 months potentially) before any kind of new hardware is released seems bonkers.

I still half suspect a surprise announce as a "just one more thing" at this mexico xbox thing regarding their next offering. To tease it at E3 and then go into a black hole for potentially 18 months seems ludicrous.
 

Ozorov

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,983
So what can we expect from NextBox and PS5s CPUs after this information? Will it be a huge leap from current generation? And did we get any Navi information?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,077
Jesus. What the fuck does this all mean?

AMDs new CPUs are more efficient than the last ones - even original would be a big step forward compared to jaguar so thats a good thing.

On PS4/XB1 you had CPU/GPU all on one big chip. Big chips are relatively expensive compared to small ones, as they're all cut from a big round wafer. any defects on that wafer mean the chip can fail and can't be used - increasing the cost of the good ones. The bigger the chip, the more likely a defect will hit it, and the larger the waste (and therefore cost).

So keeping chips as small as possible is more efficient and cheaper.

This new approach from AMD looks to potentially separate CPU and GPU into 'chiplets'. These are then combined onto a common package so they can behave to the overall system like they're one thing, but you're building them out of blocks rather than as one unit. By separating the CPU and GPU into 'chiplets' potentially each one can be smaller and cheaper. Or possibly allows a larger GPU as it doesn't need to share space with the CPU (but this depends on the design of the package and what limits it might have)

Further efficiencies come from having the 'boring stuff' (IO handling etc) outside of those chiplets on the main package. This is done at a larger process (14nm) so should be cheap and mature. And again leaves more of the 7nm chiplet area to be dedicated to the good stuff - actual CPU and GPU processing units, not wasting area on housekeeping.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,077
So what can we expect from NextBox and PS5s CPUs after this information? Will it be a huge leap from current generation? And did we get any Navi information?

Its nothing specific, just some nice foundational stuff that all looks positive - Zen was good, Zen 2 looks better. MCM/chiplet architecture seems a nice way to get big die performance with smaller dies and better yields.


It means I really dont see how the next consoles cant be announced in the near term.

The thought it could the second half of 2020 (24 months potentially) before any kind of new hardware is released seems bonkers.

I still half suspect a surprise announce as a "just one more thing" at this mexico xbox thing regarding their next offering. To tease it at E3 and then go into a black hole for potentially 18 months seems ludicrous.

IMO MS' comments about scarlett were more about marketing XB1X than actually marketing XB2. They need to be seen to be talking about power, so they're talking about power. Right now its just messaging - trying to get into peoples heads. Partly in case Sony announce something for 2019 they want people to think 'but what about scarlett?'. A bit like Sony spoiling Dreamcast launch even though they weren't ready with their own console yet.

Technically a console release for both companies seems very possible in 2019. But both have other issues that may lead to 2020
- Sony have the current success of PS4 to consider. While the market for PS5 does not really overlap with PS4 (early adopters vs price concious/mass market), launching PS5 may undermine PS4 slightly. Personally I'd still go for it in 2019. PS pro was 3 years after PS4 and partly designed to stop early adopters migrating away to PC. So that surely is still a risk 3 years later? PS5 stops them moving to PC.

- MS have XB1X to consider. Launching a year later than Sony, and 4 years after XB1, a 2019 XB2 launch would only be 2 years since their last console and risks frustrating early adopters who may feel abandoned after just spending a lot of money on a premium console. Personally I think that is quite a risk for MS, but they've dumped consoles early before.

I think Sony is more likely to release in 2019 than MS, and a combination of a smooth launch + 12 months early would nail the generation. But they may be confident enough to launch alongside MS and take that extra year of PS4 sales and possible risk of losing some early PS4 buyers to PC.
 

Intersect

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
451
AMDs new CPUs are more efficient than the last ones - even original would be a big step forward compared to jaguar so thats a good thing.

On PS4/XB1 you had CPU/GPU all on one big chip. Big chips are relatively expensive compared to small ones, as they're all cut from a big round wafer. any defects on that wafer mean the chip can fail and can't be used - increasing the cost of the good ones. The bigger the chip, the more likely a defect will hit it, and the larger the waste (and therefore cost).

So keeping chips as small as possible is more efficient and cheaper.

This new approach from AMD looks to potentially separate CPU and GPU into 'chiplets'. These are then combined onto a common package so they can behave to the overall system like they're one thing, but you're building them out of blocks rather than as one unit. By separating the CPU and GPU into 'chiplets' potentially each one can be smaller and cheaper. Or possibly allows a larger GPU as it doesn't need to share space with the CPU (but this depends on the design of the package and what limits it might have)

Further efficiencies come from having the 'boring stuff' (IO handling etc) outside of those chiplets on the main package. This is done at a larger process (14nm) so should be cheap and mature. And again leaves more of the 7nm chiplet area to be dedicated to the good stuff - actual CPU and GPU processing units, not wasting area on housekeeping.
Very good description. AMD currently has the "uncore" (I/O) @ 12nm using Global Foundries.

I'd add that DARPA has paid AMD to develop Chiplet building blocks for their projects by 2020-2021. The US Department of Energy has paid AMD to develop a Exa-scale computer that will be built with 10,000 APUs that are assembled from GPU and CPU chiplets without video I/O.

The crux of the DARPA program is to develop a new technological framework in which different functionalities and blocks of intellectual property—among them data storage, computation, signal processing, and managing the form and flow of data—can be segregated into small chiplets, which then can be mixed, matched, and combined onto an interposer, somewhat like joining the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Conceivably an entire conventional circuit board with a variety of different but full-sized chips could be shrunk down onto a much smaller interposer hosting a huddle of yet far smaller chiplets.

AMD is in the running for Department Of Energy Invests $258 Million To Build An Exascale Supercomputer
On Thursday, the United States Department of Energy's Exascale Computing Project announced it was awarding six companies -- AMD, Cray, HPE, IBM, Intel and Nvidia -- $258 million to research building the nation's first exascale supercomputer.

An exascale supercomputer would be capable of computing 1 million trillion floating-point operations per second.

The funding will be doled out over a three-year period. The Obama Administration made the first commitment to an exascale supercomputer in 2015. This new set of investments accelerates the time frame from 2023 to 2021.

21065703899l.png
 
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VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Zen 2 is in the sampling stage and Navi is still in the design stage, with both probably launching by mid to late 2019 for consumers? So Sony doesn't really have much lead time for the APU or whatever they're doing to launch in the same year. I feel like it's unlikely, as much as I want it to.

I disagree.Pro in 2016 had Polaris class GPU with some Vega features before Polaris was even out as a PC card,not to mention Vega.
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
So next gen gonna be all about the CPU jump. there will not be any current CPU bottlenecks anymore and we can have big worlds with fully dynamic situations/events. I'm very excited to see next generation AI based on Zen2. Next gen Naughty Dog game gonna have human-like NPCs.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,082
AMDs new CPUs are more efficient than the last ones - even original would be a big step forward compared to jaguar so thats a good thing.

On PS4/XB1 you had CPU/GPU all on one big chip. Big chips are relatively expensive compared to small ones, as they're all cut from a big round wafer. any defects on that wafer mean the chip can fail and can't be used - increasing the cost of the good ones. The bigger the chip, the more likely a defect will hit it, and the larger the waste (and therefore cost).

So keeping chips as small as possible is more efficient and cheaper.

This new approach from AMD looks to potentially separate CPU and GPU into 'chiplets'. These are then combined onto a common package so they can behave to the overall system like they're one thing, but you're building them out of blocks rather than as one unit. By separating the CPU and GPU into 'chiplets' potentially each one can be smaller and cheaper. Or possibly allows a larger GPU as it doesn't need to share space with the CPU (but this depends on the design of the package and what limits it might have)

Further efficiencies come from having the 'boring stuff' (IO handling etc) outside of those chiplets on the main package. This is done at a larger process (14nm) so should be cheap and mature. And again leaves more of the 7nm chiplet area to be dedicated to the good stuff - actual CPU and GPU processing units, not wasting area on housekeeping.

We've been speculating under the assumption that hardware is locked down 2 years before launch.

Does this modular set up mean that hardware changes are possible later then that?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,077
We've been speculating under the assumption that hardware is locked down 2 years before launch.

Does this modular set up mean that hardware changes are possible later then that?

I don't think it necessarily provides more flexibility to make late changes, more that it may help derisk volume 7nm production as individual chiplets would be smaller than one big APU
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
This is probably a very stupid question but I'm wondering.. does this new information mean that the upcoming next gen consoles could very well be a leap over PC technology at the beginning? Or is all this stuff coming to PCs as well on the CPU side?

It just sounds like some exotic new ways of doing things that might proliferate on consoles before it all comes to (affordable) PC builds.. Or am I way off. I don't really know what I'm talking about, lol, it's just exciting thinking that consoles might actually be very of-the-moment tech at launch and not lagging behind like they have been for a while in raw power stakes.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
This is probably a very stupid question but I'm wondering.. does this new information mean that the upcoming next gen consoles could very well be a leap over PC technology at the beginning? Or is all this stuff coming to PCs as well on the CPU side?

It just sounds like some exotic new ways of doing things that might proliferate on consoles before it all comes to (affordable) PC builds.. Or am I way off. I don't really know what I'm talking about, lol, it's just exciting thinking that consoles might actually be very of-the-moment tech at launch and not lagging behind like they have been for a while in raw power stakes.

They will come on the same time or before on PC.
 

Intersect

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
451
I disagree.Pro in 2016 had Polaris class GPU with some Vega features before Polaris was even out as a PC card,not to mention Vega.
And we have Sony and AMD in a rush to design Navi when Vega was still up in the air. Why would Sony be involved in the Navi design, I think this is a key to understanding what's coming. We have been hearing rumors that BC is not now totally hardware based as seen in the Pro which would be the case if what's coming is not as semi-custom, more off the shelf.

Considering AMD is moving to chiplet designs and by 2021 is likely required to have 5nm CPU and GPU chiplets for DARPA and the US department of energy, they have to solve the Infinity Fabric efficiency issue as right now a monolithic APU/SoC is more efficient. NoC and new cache/memory controllers might be how this is solved.

Sony might have a roadmap for a future 5nm PS5 iteration using building blocks designed for DARPA or the department of energy and the holiday 2019 based on Navi is the first step.