PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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I think Sony took a 60 dollar loss per PS4 in the beginning. https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/09/20/sony-to-take-a-loss-on-playstation-4-sales/
And didnt they take a huge loss on ps3 in the beginning? Dunno about MS with 360 and X1
Yes, I think Sony (roughly) broke even on PS4 if you bought a PS+ sub or game - with PS3 I think it was a large ~$250 loss per unit hence the quick cut-backs (removal of hardware BC etc).
There's nothing to stop either company coming in at a loss, Sony are in a much better position next gen so can afford it more than this gen, but I think they won't do another PS3...maybe aim for $100 loss at most. MS could go more, but hey, they might release later anyway so have the more powerful machine (seeing as X was released a year after Pro and is much more capable they could get away with it but I'm not sure they'd want to give Sony a head start)
The PS3 loss was huge, like $250-300. I also heard the PS2 was initially sold at a $188 loss. The PS4 loss was very small though - I don't believe the amount was explicitly stated, Sony just said that a PS4 customer buying a game would bring them into the black. So I doubt it was $60.
However, while the tiny loss taken on PS4 could possibly be a sign that Sony will no longer be taking big losses, it could just as easily be due to them coming off the $5billion loss they suffered over the PS3 generation. Now that their subscriptions, games, and even the PS4 itself are bringing in plenty of money, they could easily go back to their old losses with more efficiency.
That and the fact that Sony as a company are in a much better financial position than in 2013.
This is true,they can cover any loss this time very fast thanks to the billions they make from PS+ subscribers and platform holder 30% digital tax.They had nothing like this before.
But i don't expect them to take any big loss,why should they?PS4 had mid range PC type specs in 2013 and it was huge success for them.They will release PS5 Pro when 5nm is ready and sell it to those that want higher end machine,like with Pro now.
Phil's comments just come across to me as the usual marketing positioning - making it clear they won't be doing TVTVTV again. Thats all I take away from it, with perhaps the tiniest sprinkling of 'ours will be worth waiting for' just to head off any potential earlier PS5 release, getting that idea planted in heads regardless of whether it can be backed up or not. And seems to be working which surprises me.
Are they? I knew the PlayStation Division had improved by leaps and bounds but wasn't sure how the whole company was going.
Funny, I've actually heard that while we're here quibbling and theorising about our video games, Sony's most profitable business venture is life insurance.
I have a feeling MS knows very well PS5 will be out before next Xbox.
We'll find out soon.
They are.They had biggest profit in the last 20 years last fiscal year, about $6.7 billion.
Gaming was last quarter more then 1/3 of entire company's profit.
How do you know the price of PS4 pro next year ? They haven't officially dropped the price at all.its 399 $€ and I doubt they will drop price by 150$€ in a year .they have never done that .
Pro will be gone once PS5 with BC is out,there is no reason for it to exist.
PS4 super slim will probably be $199 and i also expect PS5 at $399.
I think we've argued about this before, but the PS4's success with midrange PC hardware was due to its only competition being the same thing but flatly weaker and sold at a higher price. If Microsoft had gone with a more power-focused box with an X-style approach sold at a $100 loss, the PS4 would have been perceived as weak. Now, I'm pretty sure MS couldn't have done that as they were coming off their own multi-billion-dollar loss, but this time around, I'm betting they'll go for power at a loss. Unless Sony wants the Pro vs X situation to replicate itself in the mainstream console market - only with this time the X-equivalent being launched at the same time for the same price - they shouldn't rest on their laurels.
I agree,more or less...But i think with $399 price,full BC and ~1 year first mover advantage-they have nothing to worry about.
Why would they kill a sku that is 30% of total sale ? That doesn't make sense .
They can do ps4 199$ ,pro 299$ and ps5 449$or399$.a device for every price segment.
Yeah, listening back to the comment at X018, you could contextualise it in two or three different ways at least. Turning what he said into a promise about their next box being 'the most powerful' is actually unfair to him IMO. He could just as easily have meant that they're committed to the One X, or committed to doing hardware better than they did with the original Xbox One, or committed to always trying to bring better hardware with revisions in the future etc. I don't think he can make a guarantee right now with regard to what other companies are doing vs what they're doing, and I don't think he was - the comment and context was not so specific.
Yep another Pro vs X situation with base PS5 and Scarlet launching at the same time/price could hurt badly.
People who buy a PlayStation 4 Pro now would buy a PlayStation 5 instead if it was available.
And it's not really important. I think PlayStation 4 will continue to sell well less than one year after the PlayStation 5 launch, even at 150/200$.
I don't know about the price but i don't think they will launch at the same time,just like Pro and 1X.
I'm totally fine with 499$ PS5. I'll gladly give another 100$ to don't have an underpowered console.
Because that SKU is aimed at a market that will be better served by the PS5, and it existing just muddies the lineup.
I don't think power is everything (or even that important is a box is close enough to it's rival), Sony had the games and vision - they had all those indie devs on board etc. Xbox still sold pretty well at the start despite all it's negative start. I think a lot of people underestimate the PlayStation brand (or overestimate the importance of power)...not saying you're one of them BTW, just saying.
But why would MS cannabalize the sales of the X1X by releasing a brand new next-gen piece of hardware potentially 2 years after? At least Sony would be hitting the 3-4 year mark since Pro and makes sense. If both systems are going to be coming in fairly the same for the same price, then the next showdown would be games and exclusives and that's a battle MS will lose every time.
You do, however many other do not. Sony's main intention is to sell more consoles and profit mainly from games/services, so they'd rather go for a lower price even if it is underpowered, so they would be the market leader.
The only reason the Pro is ~30% of PS4 sales is because it is the best system on which to play PS4 games. The moment the PS5 releases with full BC (that plays every game in their Pro mode if they have one combined with a much better boost mode and possible PS5-mode patches), is the moment the Pro sales drop like a rock to maybe 5% of sales at best. That's not enough to justify the additional headache of selling and manufacturing another SKU.
Because you either cannibalize your marketshare or you have it eaten by someone else. They don't have a choice.
Power certainly isn't everything, and I agree that the sheer brand power of PlayStation would likely keep them on top in a global sense. But if Xbox can literally just say "More Power, Same Price", I think that would convert more customers than Sony would like.
Yeah, I think PlayStation 5 will launch at 399$. But they can launch at the same time a PlayStation 5 Pro at 499$, 549$ or 599$ for people who wants a more expansive console.
In addition to all the replies you recieved before, Sony will need to free up production lines for the PS5. We are already seeing the pro being supply constrained (possibly from a move to produce ps5 components if we are talking 2019) and a lack of BF sales, indicating sony are not really interested in selling a ps4pro anymore, due to the overlapping crowd of ps4pro and early ps5 consumers.
In any case there's a very big difference between being less powerful than a competitor and being underpowered.
I think in the end Sony will do their sums, their research, and come up with a price to target, and stick to that plan. This is how they approached the PS4. The PS4 strategy was not contingent upon being the most powerful system, and that wasn't a make or break goal for Sony in its design. End price was a hard goal, and making the best box they could for that price was a hard goal. Being the most powerful at any cost was not, and they did not know things would work out that way. The power advantage was just an after-the-fact marketing flourish, not a from-scratch constraint.
I don't expect the PS5 strategy to be any different. It'll be the best box they can make - perhaps the best box possible - at their target price - which I expect will be informed by research on what the market bears as affordable, and that may be no different than it was 5 years ago. In the end that may mean being more or less powerful than Microsoft's console. I would not expect it to be 'underpowered' in either case however, at least if Sony shows the same competency with chip design that they have shown since Vita/PS4.
I know but for a guess , you have to look at history .Sony has never , ever dropped the price of their console 150$ .
A pro at launch? Thats technically impossible, confusing to the consumers an expensive bet for sony amd hurting production lines for normal ps5s. Sony would probably do the same as this gen and release a ps5pro after 3 years (assuming we will get a size shrink to 5nm by then, which i am not hopeful of)
But technology won't be there . They need to wait for 5nm or 3nm for ps5 pro . And that's 2022 or 2023. If the Do a pro now(over clocked ps5 let's say since technology is the same ) ,then in 3 years they have to again discontinue that first ps5 pro and do a second pro ,which would not be great .
I am highly sceptical about this.Even more now when people are already locked in PS or Xbox ecosystem with bunch of digital games,friends,trophies,subscriptions and what not.Huge majority of people own only 1 console and when they upgrade they will want to stay in same ecosystem.They are not gonna dump all that cause other console has 1-2 TFs more.
MS fucked up things at the start of digital gen back in 2013 and there is no easy way out for them.
Pro shortage was because of all the bundles they wanted to do, from RDR2 bundle to spider Man bundle .and they did a hardware revision for pro (7200). Now there is absolutely no pro shortages .
And the rest of your talk about why they don't drop the price , cause they are dropping the base and offering a free game with it .they r hoping to make back Abit with the pro.and they will do a deal for pro in december.
There is always some weird belief that MS will be able to make a more powerful system for the same price. No reason to believe that, unless if sony will try to modify the hardware by adding some more exotic tech instead of performance improvements (like how sony added hdr abilities on the base ps4 back in 2013).
You may be right, but I wasn't thinking 1-2TF, I was thinking 30-50% more powerful across the board, a really noticeable difference in quality, for the same launch price. I agree that the state of modern digital ecosystems will retain a lot of customers, but not all. This isn't even getting into the marketing potential in that situation. Microsoft could make the loss they were taking a part of their ads, making it clear that they were the only one doing so. 'Arrogant Sony' is still a meme for some people, it wouldn't take much to add a 'Greedy' to that. It would pretty much just be a repeat of what they did with cross-play.
I'm not talking about Microsoft magically making a more powerful machine at the same price, I'm talking about them taking a loss and Sony selling at cost.
Why are some people believing that a Pro vs X situation can happen if they launch at the same time for thr same price?
That didn't even happen with the Pro/X. A year later and a $100 more but suddenly MS can do that at launch for a $100 cheaper?
That didn't even happen with the Pro/X. A year later and a $100 more but suddenly MS can do that at launch for a $100 cheaper?
I think both are launching in 2020. We are less than 3 months for a potential PS Metting and no leak so far, not even the codename.
If Sony produce the best box they can for a set cost in the same ballpark as launch PS4, based on the latest tech available, then they will secure a lot of customers for the whole of the next generation again beforehand the next Xbox releases. Even if that Xbox has better performance I just cannot see it mattering to most people. I don't think the X has brought all that many long term PlayStation owners away from Sony, seems anecdotally like it hasn't really made much of an impact.
Then we have the mid gen upgrades, if MS gain any momentum I imagine Sony could easily bring out a PS5 Pro to stave off any competition there, if need be. The precedent has been set and that would secure any waiverers.
This is all based on Sony releasing a decent chunk of time ahead of Microsoft of course. I see next gen as a pretty big uphill struggle for MS and I cannot see Sony being complacent. They have learned from past lessons and just need to carry on as they have been doing.
Then we have the mid gen upgrades, if MS gain any momentum I imagine Sony could easily bring out a PS5 Pro to stave off any competition there, if need be. The precedent has been set and that would secure any waiverers.
This is all based on Sony releasing a decent chunk of time ahead of Microsoft of course. I see next gen as a pretty big uphill struggle for MS and I cannot see Sony being complacent. They have learned from past lessons and just need to carry on as they have been doing.
This is big thing on gaming forum like this,how many average consumers give a damn about that or even know what it means?
And how many PS4 sales Sony lost this year cause of lack of cross-play? Come on now :)
If we are looking at the past sony were the ones to usually sell at a loss while MS don't. And in addition to that if the rumor that sony assisted development of Navi and are getting further price reductions compared to MS.
Also if you want proof that sony will take a loss just look at the expected revenue drop in their presentation. There is a bigger drop than 2013 ps4 launch when sony already took a hit to their ps4 price.
Yeah people get so caught up in forum talk , they mix reality with hardcore forums .
No average customer cares about any of that .
So with al the extra money ms seems to be spending on studios for Xbox and seem to have a bigger position in the MS corporation as a whole, does that mean that there wil also be a bigger budget for next gen consoles? Does that budget even have a big influence on what hardware will be in the console. Like selling with a loss or going for more expensive hardware, ray-tracing?
I'm no expert on this by any means. Just curious if the increase on budget for Xbox could effect the next Xbox console in any way and what kind of effect that could be. Anybody care to speculate.
Really excited for next gen because there are a lot of different factors now, like BC, streaming and google and maybe others joining the market.
I'm no expert on this by any means. Just curious if the increase on budget for Xbox could effect the next Xbox console in any way and what kind of effect that could be. Anybody care to speculate.
Really excited for next gen because there are a lot of different factors now, like BC, streaming and google and maybe others joining the market.
If i remember well,first Xbox made huge loss (it had expensive Intel and Nvidia cpu and gpu) and 360 as well,until Kinect was launched.
Yes, the ESRAM is part of the APU die. 363mm^2 vs PS4's 348mm^2, which would make it more expensive. Also less area covered in GPU, which can tolerate "specs of dust" or whatever causes manufacturing error that can be compensated by disabling a CU - also makes it more expensive.
Xbox One:
PS4:
About the bolded part.did u see the forecast of 2019 and 2020 for PlayStation division ? They expect a huge drop in profit .much bigger than 2012 and 2013.so they are definitely taking a loss but how much ? We are not sure .