Remember the time Clayface owned Wonder Woman after he realized she was made from clay? post your favorite examples of comic logic

CapNBritain · May 21, 2020

HStallion said:
They should just make a villain called retcon who changes people's past to make them easy to defeat.

This is actually genius. There have been stories of people from the real world going into the comic world, but why not also make it an unflattering look at toxic fandom? Think of what a sociopathic Lex Luther type from the real world who read comics as a kid and is suddenly dropped into DC or Marvel could do? I envision a miniseries where he ruthlessly builds power and takes down heroes one by one to rule the world.

Woozies · May 21, 2020

CapNBritain said:
I love when powers are used in interesting ways in battles. It's one of the things that is lacking in superhero fights these days. Early Claremont X-Men was full of shit like this.

As for the Wonder Woman example, how does Diana being made of clay actually help Clayface? Because she isn't made of clay anymore, and as far as I know, Clayface doesn't absorb or gain more power from clay, does he? Like, it'd be dope if his body touching hers began to revert her back into clay, which he could then control, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Is it just, she was clay, he is (sort of ) clay, so he does super-effective damage like Ghost types on Ghost types in Pokemon? Because that's not really that great.

I think during that time the concept was that Diana while being a demigod was so via persistent magic and if you fuck with that magic (positively or negatively) her golem aspects come to the forefront.

Now how Clayface, who isn't magic can do that... I can't tell you. But yeah.

HStallion · May 21, 2020

Woozies said:
I think during that time the concept was that Diana while being a demigod was so via persistent magic and if you fuck with that magic (positively or negatively) her golem aspects come to the forefront.

Now how Clayface, who isn't magic can do that... I can't tell you. But yeah.

The clayforce from the clay dimension.

devenger · May 21, 2020

y2kyle89 said:
That Thanos loses, even while wielding the Infinity Gauntlet and can warp reality to his whims, because on some level he feels like he should and subconsciously allows it to happen. Or something like that, I'm trying to remember a synopsis I read years ago.

Doom has a similar fate in the first Secret Wars. Successfully kills all of the heroes with the Beyonder's power. But Klaw tells him a bullshit what if story of how they could technically survive and come back. Just considering the suggestion makes it happen and Thor's hammer comes busting through the wall.

caliph95 · May 21, 2020

devenger said:
Doom has a similar fate in the first Secret Wars. Successfully kills all of the heroes with the Beyonder's power. But Klaw tells him a bullshit what if story of how they could technically survive and come back. Just considering the suggestion makes it happen and Thor's hammer comes busting through the wall.

Klaw was also possessed Beyonder so he knew how his powers work

He sabotages Doom

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
Crisis and their relative lack of popularity outside of Darkseid is the main problem here. Pre-Crisis, it was said that the average New God warrior was about as strong as Superman, a nobody like "Magnar" could compete with him. Afterwards though, most writers only make Darkseid a real threat and in some cases even Darkseid is treated as just Superman-level.

Shouldn't they be, like, much stronger than Superman? I think it was Peter David's (excellent) Supergirl that introduced the comic book theory that the Boom Tube actually shrunk the New Gods when they went to Earth, otherwise they'd be gigantic compared to humans.

But it's a problem with different writers and their interpretations of how powers work, especially overpowered characters. I'm not even sure they had a guide until they published stuff like the Marvel Handbook. And even after that, sometimes, say, Silver Surfer can do anything he can imagine and sometimes he's a chump.

Woozies · May 21, 2020

HStallion said:
The clayforce from the clay dimension.

You know what? Sure

caliph95 · May 21, 2020

mrmoose said:
Shouldn't they be, like, much stronger than Superman? I think it was Peter David's (excellent) Supergirl that introduced the comic book theory that the Boom Tube actually shrunk the New Gods when they went to Earth, otherwise they'd be gigantic compared to humans.

NeonZ said:
Crisis and their relative lack of popularity outside of Darkseid is the main problem here. Pre-Crisis, it was said that the average New God warrior was about as strong as Superman, a nobody like "Magnar" could compete with him. Afterwards though, most writers only make Darkseid a real threat and in some cases even Darkseid is treated as just Superman-level

They were supposed to be actual Gods so Superman shouldn't be able to fight them easily but people like using Darkseid so he can go from being able from bitchslapping the justice league to getting his ass kicked by Superman depending on the book

Grant Morrison went fuck it and retcons that the never fought the Real Darkseid just fragments so the real new gods are actual gods but their fragments can get their ass kicked by Superman

devenger · May 21, 2020

caliph95 said:
Klaw was also possessed Beyonder so he knew how his powers work

He sabotages Doom

Totally, I was keeping it short ;) I love it when Doom's all "Klaw, SHUT UP!"

Ignatz Mouse · May 21, 2020

Slayven said:
Holding 2 universes apart

Bah, Spectre did this in the 1960s!

caliph95 · May 21, 2020

devenger said:
Totally, I was keeping it short ;) I love it when Doom's all "Klaw, SHUT UP!"

Doom and Klaw the sitcom no one knew they wanted

Slayven · May 21, 2020

HStallion said:
They should just make a villain called retcon who changes people's past to make them easy to defeat.

There was a guy like that in Bleach

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

devenger said:
Doom has a similar fate in the first Secret Wars. Successfully kills all of the heroes with the Beyonder's power. But Klaw tells him a bullshit what if story of how they could technically survive and come back. Just considering the suggestion makes it happen and Thor's hammer comes busting through the wall.

This happened to other all powerful beings too. Like Korvac.

Speaking of power levels, Gladiator (from the Shiar Imperial Guard) went from being a Superboy/Superman analog and had his powers defined as his power level is almost limitless but he's only as powerful as his confidence level. I think Byrne introduced this in his FF run.

KingWillance · May 21, 2020

I know this is for western comics but JoJo is the king of this. Part 6 especially has some wildness in that regard. "I looked at the reflection of the daggers" or

Ignatz Mouse · May 21, 2020

mrmoose said:
This happened to other all powerful beings too. Like Korvac.

Speaking of power levels, Gladiator (from the Shiar Imperial Guard) went from being a Superboy/Superman analog and had his powers defined as his power level is almost limitless but he's only as powerful as his confidence level. I think Byrne introduced this in his FF run.

Basically Byrne fan-fictioning his ideas about Superman's powers being psionic in nature before he actually revamped Superman.

Ruisu · May 21, 2020

MonadL said:
Not going to lie, I've always really liked this. I enjoy introspective villain shit like this.

I would like it a lot more if comics usually didn't just drop this in a line of dialogue instead of actually building the character from an idea like that.

But I guess that can be hard when a lot of times comics can be one writer just trying to one up the previous or fix their mess.

NeonZ · May 21, 2020

mrmoose said:
Shouldn't they be, like, much stronger than Superman? I think it was Peter David's (excellent) Supergirl that introduced the comic book theory that the Boom Tube actually shrunk the New Gods when they went to Earth, otherwise they'd be gigantic compared to humans.

As far as how strong they're were originally supposed to be, like I said, Pre-Crisis in a story written by Jack Kirby himself, Superman shrugs off the attacks of some teens (who attack him thinking he was one of Darkseid's minions) but struggles against Magnar. This is kind of notable because Superman at this point was supposed to be completely invulnerable outside of his weaknesses and "Magnar" is a complete nobody, just a random guard protecting town.

caliph95 · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
As far as how strong they're were originally supposed to be, like I said, Pre-Crisis in a story written by Jack Kirby himself, Superman shrugs off the attacks of some teens (who attack him thinking he was one of Darkseid's minions) but struggles against Magnar. This is kind of notable because Superman at this point was supposed to be completely invulnerable outside of his weaknesses and "Magnar" is a complete nobody, just a random guard protecting town.

Superman now would just give him the backhand

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

Ignatz Mouse said:
Bah, Spectre did this in the 1960s!

He hit the Spectre so hard, in space, that he drove his legs into his body? At first I thought it was some weird perspective the artist was trying out.

I mean, it's his spirit form, and his form is apparently strong enough to hold earths apart, so that dude must be like super super strong, but he somehow beats him to Earth between panels. Though I do kind of miss old comics, this one page would've taken like a whole comic to tell while back in the day, the writers just filled in panel captions and thought balloons.

Ignatz Mouse · May 21, 2020

mrmoose said:
He hit the Spectre so hard, in space, that he drove his legs into his body? At first I thought it was some weird perspective the artist was trying out.

I mean, it's his spirit form, and his form is apparently strong enough to hold earths apart, so that dude must be like super super strong, but he somehow beats him to Earth between panels. Though I do kind of miss old comics, this one page would've taken like a whole comic to tell while back in the day, the writers just filled in panel captions and thought balloons.

This is one of the first Silver Age stories I read, and I don't think it's good, but I love how wild they'd be in just having crazy things happen.

Foltzie · May 21, 2020

Funky Papa said:
I'm guessing Green Lantern fans should not bother posting in this thread at all.

You shut your mouth, anything Alan Moore did with GL is gold.

Ignatz Mouse · May 21, 2020

Funky Papa said:
I'm guessing Green Lantern fans should not bother posting in this thread at all.

Seems like this would be a handy ability to have basically in any situation...

L4DANathan · May 21, 2020

Z-Beat said:
Remember when Batman strapped Barry to the hood of his car and drove it into the speed force?

You know, that actually totally fits Batman's personality. It's a legit logical conclusion of his crusade when he encounters the other members of the Justice League. Using them in order to further his own goals.

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

L4DANathan said:
You know, that actually totally fits Batman's personality. It's a legit logical conclusion of his crusade when he encounters the other members of the Justice League. Using them in order to further his own goals.

I think it's the Morrison-esque "science" that is being pointed out here, not the viability of an alternate universe Batman turning bad and killing the heroes for their powers (which is basically the subject of all the one shots, Batman kills and takes the powers of Green Lantern, Wonder Woman/Ares, etc..

Deleted member 24118 · May 21, 2020

Z-Beat · May 21, 2020

L4DANathan said:
You know, that actually totally fits Batman's personality. It's a legit logical conclusion of his crusade when he encounters the other members of the Justice League. Using them in order to further his own goals.

mrmoose said:
I think it's the Morrison-esque "science" that is being pointed out here, not the viability of an alternate universe Batman turning bad and killing the heroes for their powers (which is basically the subject of all the one shots, Batman kills and takes the powers of Green Lantern, Wonder Woman/Ares, etc..

Worth noting that he didn't actually kill Flash. He ended up fusing with him. Flash is still in there watching Batman do all this horrible shit with his powers and begging him not to.

L4DANathan · May 21, 2020

mrmoose said:
I think it's the Morrison-esque "science" that is being pointed out here, not the viability of an alternate universe Batman turning bad and killing the heroes for their powers (which is basically the subject of all the one shots, Batman kills and takes the powers of Green Lantern, Wonder Woman/Ares, etc..

Well, the very existence of the Speed Force already crosses that line, but I'm thinking it would be more in line with Batman to do something like this, where he doesn't actually kill them or hurt them, he just utilizes or manipulates them to use their powers for his own gain.

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

L4DANathan said:
Well, the very existence of the Speed Force already crosses that line, but I'm thinking it would be more in line with Batman to do something like this, where he doesn't actually kill them or hurt them, he just utilizes or manipulates them to use their powers for his own gain.

This incarnation of Batman is basically a murderer, though. It's probably just (happy?) coincidence that Barry didn't die.

NeonZ · May 21, 2020

In the main continuity, Batman actually made an armor infused with the powers of the entire Justice League. It kind of kills him to use it for long though.

Greg NYC3 · May 21, 2020

Slayven said:
There was a guy like that in Bleach

I almost forgot about that arc, the beginning was actually really good but too bad about where it went lol

Ragnorok64 · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
In the main continuity, Batman actually made an armor infused with the powers of the entire Justice League. It kind of kills him to use it for long though.

The heck is Aquaman contributing to that?

ThatPersonGuy · May 21, 2020

HStallion said:
They should just make a villain called retcon who changes people's past to make them easy to defeat.

Milk Wars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This already happened, actually

UnluckyKate · May 21, 2020

Ragnorok64 said:
The heck is Aquaman contributing to that?

Tempering ? lol

Dalek · May 21, 2020

devenger said:
Rock of Ages, Atom realizing Darkseid can see so one thing must get thru his forcefield: light. Ray then hitches a ride on a green arrow, hops onto a photon and dives into Darkseid's pupil.

This was so badass.

Dalek · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
In the main continuity, Batman actually made an armor infused with the powers of the entire Justice League. It kind of kills him to use it for long though.

Which run is this? Is it the Scott Snyder run?

Sibersk Esto · May 21, 2020

Dalek said:
Which run is this? Is it the Scott Snyder run?

The Tomasi and Gleason Batman & Robin run

Dalek · May 21, 2020

Sibersk Esto said:
The Tomasi and Gleason Batman & Robin run

Ah right. I remember now. That run is fantastic. Tomasi is the best Batman writer for me.

NeonZ · May 21, 2020

Dalek said:
Which run is this? Is it the Scott Snyder run?

Nah, it's from the old Tomasi Batman and Robin, it's specifically introduced during the time Damian was dead, but the comic it continued for a while with Batman teaming up with other characters before Damian returned.

It also briefly appeared in his Superman run and his current Detective Comics run.

alexlf · May 21, 2020

devenger said:
Rock of Ages, Atom realizing Darkseid can see so one thing must get thru his forcefield: light. Ray then hitches a ride on a green arrow, hops onto a photon and dives into Darkseid's pupil.

That's cool as hell.

TheMadTitan · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
Nah, it's from the old Tomasi Batman and Robin, it's specifically introduced during the time Damian was dead, but the comic it continued for a while with Batman teaming up with other characters before Damian returned.

It also briefly appeared in his Superman run and his current Detective Comics run.

That arc was hype. Darkseid stole Damian's body as revenge for Bats shooting him in Final Crisis.

Everyone always shows off this part:

main-qimg-008c363bdae5263eb5e72a11f58d995d-c

But they always neglect to mention that even with his fancy Iron Man armor made by Greek Gods and the Justice League, Darkseid beats the shit out of him.

魑魅魍魎 · May 21, 2020

Z-Beat said:
Remember when Batman strapped Barry to the hood of his car and drove it into the speed force?

What? Oh man I am glad I stopped buying comics.

GreenMamba · May 21, 2020

NeonZ said:
In the main continuity, Batman actually made an armor infused with the powers of the entire Justice League. It kind of kills him to use it for long though.

Is even one of them a trained armor smith?

TheMadTitan · May 21, 2020

Yagyujubei said:
What? Oh man I am glad I stopped buying comics.

Alternate universe evil Batman, it doesn't count.

GreenMamba said:
Is even one of them a trained armor smith?

The last panel with WW is in Hephaestus' blacksmithery thing. He's the one who actually assembled the thing.

mrmoose · May 21, 2020

Oh that's what the McFarlane Hellbat armor is based on. I just bought it because it looked cool.

TheMadTitan · May 21, 2020

Also, I love the fact that Batman has a Batcave on the moon.

Remember the time Clayface owned Wonder Woman after he realized she was made from clay? post your favorite examples of comic logic

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