Some of you people are acting like you built a pyramid or something lol
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ResetEra Ownership Update
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
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I felt it was clear it was a hustle from the start. It was pretty straight forward that the people in charge of taking over Gaf were basically going to be making similar to what Evilore was pulling in, a bit less from various losses in terms of members and industry clout, but still similar. Even I wanted to jump in on it but didn't have nearly the connections, influences, knowhow, ect. but absolutely saw that opportunity.
Why the FUCK would mods not want to get paid? Here's an idea: pay the mods appropriately except for the ones who want to be hairy potter house elves for some reason dumb reason.
I want to share an idea with you.
Some human beings, yes including mods, get out of their beds every day, shower, apply makeup, dress, leave their houses, and engage in activities that might be considered by an onlooker as labor...............for free.
It is the utmost practice of cynicism for cynicism's sake to believe that mods could/would only engage in the way that we do for money. A lot of us care about these communities. A lot of us agreed to steward these communities because we want to see them thrive. Because we believe in the grand experiment.
Many of us made the decisions we did without thinking about money. Because our everyday decisions don't revolve around money.
Just stop. You obviously have no ideawhat it's like to live paycheck to paycheck or to go without to provide for you kids. Struggling is real hell many of resetera posters LIVE THAT. Too hear you claim 4.5 million and owning property/houses isn't really all that much is so damn insulting.
do people not realize there's a huge disparity between a community volunteer role where you're under no strict pressure and make your own hours vs. a job with expectations, management, set hours, legal ramifications, etc
Roy already said it great but if I can add another perspective to it as well, when you get paid for something it can suck the fun out of it, it becomes an obligation, expectations may increase, you may have to sacrifice more personal info, a lot of people are cool with it being a hobby.
Not once did I say this lmao. Please read. Not once did I say they shouldn't be paid, but I have theorized on why they probably don't want to be. And said if they don't care I don't, cause it's weirdo shit to do otherwise.
"Also, here's another funny concept. Have yall considered that the mods don't want to paid? Cause ya know, makes this shit feel like a job when they got jobs."
"Sure I want labor to be paid but if niggas wanna VOLUNTEER and do work for free I (important) do not care."
Read this line carefully and you'll find the answers you seek.
Hey I know yall mods feelings and thoughts about how the site should be run but here's MY way the site should be run and golly gee it is FOR SURE BETTER.
Question, are you a mod?
Do you? Could you tell me why people do volunteer work then?
I swear whenever someone holds up a mirror to the community they wanna scream they're not the problem but everything else is.
Well, have fun generating hundreds of thousands in profit for a faceless corporation. If that's cool with you, whatever. But the people who want to be paid for the hours they put in should have a seat at the damn table.
I know most of you guys are in the US and such, but outside there are different types of contracts.
The work some mods do is above and beyond what you'd need on a "services provided" contract here in Colombia. They'd do the same thing but get paid for it.
I'm not saying things should change, just stating it's not that ridiculous.
It's a shame the forum couldn't have stayed in the hands of the community, but I can't honestly say for sure that I wouldn't sell if I found myself in Cerium's position. 4.5 million is a life-changing amount of money, and we all only get one trip around.
Speaking for myself, I was able to be a part of something greater as a staff member. I had no interest in the money at all. My time as both a moderator and an admin helped me grow significantly as a person, relate my own struggles with disability and gender identity to others, and nourished friendships and relationships that have lasted to this day. While there was definitely conflict and struggle while I was on staff, I still have some incredible, life changing memories. The skills I obtained also carried over into my actual job, once I got into my field too. So in that sense, what I did at Era prepared me for life later on.
Being paid would have changed the dynamics of everything that happened significantly, and wouldn't have necessarily made anything easier or better for me.
I don't regret being a part of staff at all as a volunteer, and I have no reason to be concerned about the ownership update myself.
The most amusing thing about the "pay your mods" argument is how we're all pretending that, if it were implemented, the framing isn't going to change from "Mods deserve to be paid for their work" to "Mods are only doing what they do for money, they don't give a shit about the community" the nanosecond the next kerfuffle happens
I hate spoilers. You really shouldn't read ahead in the book :(
here's the thing, what you're bringing up is that your country has a different type of contract. I believe there's mods from at least 10 different countries on Era. imagine the legal cost to figure out contracts specific to that many different countries. that alone is probably an expensive fucking lawyer and accountant and time consuming to say the least. that's not to say they couldn't afford it, but the logistics of paying an international staff is not easy. how much you pay your staff is really only half the expense (if that). like not even all money, it's just a huge pain to do and at that point you're probably just paying a few people from one country to work in shifts. and as a moderator you're on the other side of that signing international contracts so you can get paid $5 for deleting a post where someone called someone else a loser for their opinion on a game (which is probably me)
who are you talking about, I think so far only one mod has said they'd want to get paid, and that's only from the new owner
You guys have a table? Is it round or is it a big rectangular one?
Gotta say that suddenly learning about half a dozen splinter forums really stinks. I know its selfish of me, who barely posts an really isn't part of any/the community here, but I would super miss the big catch all forum this was if it dissolves into a million tiny specific boards -_-
As for being on a board owned by a corporation? Whatevers. I'm on gamefaqs for ages an thats owned by a corp. Seems this particular one owns alot of places based around multi-player games, while Era's shown time an time again its largely about single player. This must be whats known as diversifying on the new owners part? Still pretty lame how everything sells out these days, an lamer still how people are all "gg on making that bank" O.o
As for the mods I dun get the hate but thats cause I'm outside the community(s). I barely notice 'em post much less interact with 'em. I'd wager the good they've done as a whole far outweigh any hiccups big or small so give 'em a break.
As for being on a board owned by a corporation? Whatevers. I'm on gamefaqs for ages an thats owned by a corp. Seems this particular one owns alot of places based around multi-player games, while Era's shown time an time again its largely about single player. This must be whats known as diversifying on the new owners part? Still pretty lame how everything sells out these days, an lamer still how people are all "gg on making that bank" O.o
As for the mods I dun get the hate but thats cause I'm outside the community(s). I barely notice 'em post much less interact with 'em. I'd wager the good they've done as a whole far outweigh any hiccups big or small so give 'em a break.
If some of the mods don't care about being unpaid, that's their prerogative, but you era mods are not a monolith. Perhaps some on the current staff would like to get paid. But no, what irritates me more than the unpaid mod situation is Cerium reaping the majority of wealth and taking off, and that's while staying largely detached from the community for years. That should piss the living fuck out of all you mods, ffs. The congratulatory rhetoric from some people is strange. That wasn't wealth earned. It was off the backs of many people who made this forum what it was.
...You literally cannot "disagree" with how I feel about myself. TF?
This is elementary.
Open source / free software has been a thing for decades with people devoting huge amounts of code without pay, just a desire to help create something nice for the world. Seems like a community forum would be no different.
Well I have my doubts the site will make it another 4 years. I plan to stick around for a bit, but I might have to start hedging my bets if this place goes to shit.
I guess one good thing about this thread was people reminding me that I need to update my email, so i at least have put in a ticket for that.
I guess one good thing about this thread was people reminding me that I need to update my email, so i at least have put in a ticket for that.
How are you gonna fuckin tell someone they don't respect themselves like you know anything about them? Ignorant.
I mean the site could also be set up with a different structure and less aggressive monetization. There's nothing inherently wrong about volunteer modding. It's when you rely on unpaid mods on a highly profitable website where it starts to feel exploitative. If Era was only running enough ads to pay for the servers and technical staff and some overhead for rainy day funds, etc. it would be a totally different situation than one where the sole owner can fetch a a 4.5 million dollar payday.
This is bang-on. The general attitude of people here suddenly caring deeply about the mods when any other day they'd be singing a very different tune is pretty amusing.
I mean, the mods have mostly clearly said they'd rather not be paid so I'll leave this here, but as someone who constantly works with international companies, that's barely an issue.
User Banned (Permanent): Troll Account
There's no need for foul language.
folks look at rathesungod's account, they're just an alt/troll
uhuh, and I'm sure you'll know $700k a year for an international company with a roster of 20+ staff members would be completely unsustainable
The fuck there isn't when you make stupid declarations like that. I'm even pro pay the mods, but, come on.
You are saying it indirectly. You're saying if they want to do volunteer work, they shouldn't be paid, then theorized maybe they don't want to be paid as a justification for why they shouldn't. You're doing what you can to obfuscate that, but that is your argument at its core.
So, again, since most of my co-workers are anti-union, should I also be anti-union? You sidestepped this question
You can see this in my name.
Volunteer work is unpaid work. But as I said, I don't think this job should be volunteer work personally. You sidestepped this
More meaningless rhetoric that sounds good but has nothing to do with this conversation. Like most of your argument, this sidesteps most of what I said for insults and shifting the conversation to something else. I can already anticipate where you're going next since I imagine you'll say my argument is meaningless since I'm not a mod. And hey, if that's you're argument, sure. Since you can't actually counter anything in any real way it seems to be your only avenue
HR and taxes would still need to be factored in whether you're talking full-time or part-time workers.
no, but looking at the mod list which is actually 30, not 20 as I guessed, you would know as someone who works with international businesses that hiring 30 international part timers is horribly cost inefficient. managing that many staff getting paid peanuts would just be a waste of everyone's time.
My thoughts on this:
1) I can't really shame OP for what they did. They saw a business opportunity and capitalized on it. They also put in the investment and work so it's not like they didn't do anything to "earn" it.
2) People shouldn't be surprised the site was making money - it was clear from the first 6 months it was going to and there was monetization beyond even what the old site was doing
3) For those (including the mods) who think there won't be eventual changes to the site in various forms are probably going to be in for a rude awakening. It may not be grand sweeping changes all at once, but I think if one were to look at the site now and what it will be 5 years from now it will be very different.
Regarding #1 and 2 - this will sound jaded, but would be a good life lesson to be mindful of in the future.
1) I can't really shame OP for what they did. They saw a business opportunity and capitalized on it. They also put in the investment and work so it's not like they didn't do anything to "earn" it.
2) People shouldn't be surprised the site was making money - it was clear from the first 6 months it was going to and there was monetization beyond even what the old site was doing
3) For those (including the mods) who think there won't be eventual changes to the site in various forms are probably going to be in for a rude awakening. It may not be grand sweeping changes all at once, but I think if one were to look at the site now and what it will be 5 years from now it will be very different.
Regarding #1 and 2 - this will sound jaded, but would be a good life lesson to be mindful of in the future.
When a corporation bought Audacity in order to monetize it, a bunch of developers who contributed to it for free got super upset and immediately made their own fork not associated with the company.
I know you banned for you can eat a dick fuck nigga. Don't come for the homie like that.
Mods collectively decided to work for free, and that was that. How would you support an individual mod demanding to get paid for their work?
A lot of people seem to forget why Resetera exists. It baffles me that so many people came together behind the idea that they wanted a safer, more inclusive, place to discuss video-games and other interests in a way that didn't support a terrible person and in a place where moderation was more open about its process so that both those who get punished and those that read the forum could get a better understand of what they should or shouldn't do.
I don't always agree with the decisions mods make. I've felt misunderstood and scrutinized for things that, from my perspective, seemed benign but the more you hang around somewhere the more you tend to see patterns and for me, once I overcame my own dissatisfaction I came to realize that my concerns were all too similar to the constant weaponized harassment that many minority members and the staff have to deal with on a daily basis.
Being a moderator is, in the best of cases, a thankless job.
Being a moderator in Era is a self-defeating, self-destructive task.
It's telling that so few of the people that founded the site with passion and excitement to make it a better place for everyone have either stepped down, retired or moved away from the forum entirely. Despite how many times Mods or former mods will step to say it, it just doesn't seem to get through people's heads that it simply is, and never was, about the money.
I've been going back throughout the day and reading and re-reading Finale Fireworker's post on the matter and while I can't begin to understand the amount of harassment and the mess that each individual Moderator goes with, the sentiment of trying your best to help make something better and being beaten down repeatedly to the point where it damages you permanently is something I can empathize with in more ways than I'd care to admit. I know what it feels like to become damaged goods, it's how I feel on most days.
I'm just going to quote a couple of Finale Fireworker's post because he put it much better, and understands the core of the problem, much better than I can and I highly highly recommend that anyone reading this thread late to please go back and read his entire response because all of it is important. All of it speaks to the nature of moderating and all of it describes what the outcome of it is.
You're not helping any moderator by saying they should be paid, by saying they were robbed or by insinuating something much worse. If you want to help moderators, show them a little bit of respect instead of feigning that you care about them because they didn't get nice money check after years of being mentally tormented by all of us.
I don't envy what any of the moderators have to do. It saddens me that despite their best efforts there's still a harrowing stigma against them and a general negative attitude that looms over the overwhelming majority of this forum and against them but I admire the work they do and I sincerely thank them for their efforts.
I can't make this forum better, but I try to be a better member to make their lives easier. That, in my opinion, is the least we can do to show our appreciation. No amount of money can compensate for or pay for the amount of vitriol thrown their way every single day. You don't even need to look outside this thread to see it. So if you want to pretend you don't see what the larger issue at hand is, then you should stop typing before pretending that you speak with the mod team's best interests at heart while you ignore what they've been repeatedly saying.
Be a decent person to them and to each other. It's that simple.
I don't always agree with the decisions mods make. I've felt misunderstood and scrutinized for things that, from my perspective, seemed benign but the more you hang around somewhere the more you tend to see patterns and for me, once I overcame my own dissatisfaction I came to realize that my concerns were all too similar to the constant weaponized harassment that many minority members and the staff have to deal with on a daily basis.
Being a moderator is, in the best of cases, a thankless job.
Being a moderator in Era is a self-defeating, self-destructive task.
It's telling that so few of the people that founded the site with passion and excitement to make it a better place for everyone have either stepped down, retired or moved away from the forum entirely. Despite how many times Mods or former mods will step to say it, it just doesn't seem to get through people's heads that it simply is, and never was, about the money.
I've been going back throughout the day and reading and re-reading Finale Fireworker's post on the matter and while I can't begin to understand the amount of harassment and the mess that each individual Moderator goes with, the sentiment of trying your best to help make something better and being beaten down repeatedly to the point where it damages you permanently is something I can empathize with in more ways than I'd care to admit. I know what it feels like to become damaged goods, it's how I feel on most days.
I'm just going to quote a couple of Finale Fireworker's post because he put it much better, and understands the core of the problem, much better than I can and I highly highly recommend that anyone reading this thread late to please go back and read his entire response because all of it is important. All of it speaks to the nature of moderating and all of it describes what the outcome of it is.
You're not helping any moderator by saying they should be paid, by saying they were robbed or by insinuating something much worse. If you want to help moderators, show them a little bit of respect instead of feigning that you care about them because they didn't get nice money check after years of being mentally tormented by all of us.
I don't envy what any of the moderators have to do. It saddens me that despite their best efforts there's still a harrowing stigma against them and a general negative attitude that looms over the overwhelming majority of this forum and against them but I admire the work they do and I sincerely thank them for their efforts.
I can't make this forum better, but I try to be a better member to make their lives easier. That, in my opinion, is the least we can do to show our appreciation. No amount of money can compensate for or pay for the amount of vitriol thrown their way every single day. You don't even need to look outside this thread to see it. So if you want to pretend you don't see what the larger issue at hand is, then you should stop typing before pretending that you speak with the mod team's best interests at heart while you ignore what they've been repeatedly saying.
Be a decent person to them and to each other. It's that simple.
Welp, it's amazing this worked out without resetera having "fire" or "league" somewhere in the name. Does that happen now?
Ignoring the debate of mods not even getting anything which is horrendous based off what this community started as,, let's look at the damn tech team that has been keeping this website functionally operational and now have to "figure out" where they are getting a paycheck from if at all.
By hearing them, making space for their voices, and supporting their decisions.
Have you heard otherwise?
Certain Members: Tell us how you feel, staffers.
Staffers: Okay.
Certain Members: No not like that.
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