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ResetEra Ownership Update
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
- Status
I'd argue that early era was more of a snapshot of pre-splinter GAF (re: everything after Bish got done dirty) more than anything else, and that was honestly always a terrible version of GAF to emulate.
At this point, the only Charity that is getting any of that money is going to be working at a strip club
Yeah, the wording on the Era Clear subscription page changed! Was it just after these news? To be honest, that page should have been deleted the moment this news came out.
I would still like to know if anyone in the admin/mod team knew the forum was generating up to 700k/year. I refuse to believe that they knew and still let Era Clear become a thing. I guess we were all taken for the same ride.
We were initially hoping for a more looser and less restrictive atmosphere.
I'd say within 3-4 months that vision changed.
A lot of the voices the staff reached out to wanted harsher moderation and Era started ramping it up as a result.
Maybe Cerium will be ready to respond by the time it opens up again!
It's apparently turned from a thread to shout at the old owner for not paying their past and current mods to a thread to shit on and attack past and current mods.
hey lexony,
I just feel worthless all the time, and more so now.... I should not care since the Cyberpunk fiasco really affected my mental health and I stepped away for a long time. I tried to only interact in a positive way, community threads and the like, you know. but I felt bad for not standing up for things that I felt strongly about, I started to become more involved in other threads, finally being able to come out as trans to ERA, wonderful ERA meeting truly wonderful people who made me feel real, and authentic and me and not worthless and via them other ERA originated groups who accepted me as me, and embraced me and made me want to live and be involved and be happy and just give back...
I just wanted to fight to keep that ERA so the next poor fuck would have that same chance, and I will not apologise for thinking that an owner with a plethroa of websites with ties to blizzard which allow bigotry openly may have influenced decisions to moderate that publisher.
Dude get off the internet, get out, and detox for a week. This isn't the world.
Thanks for the reminder, I do remember the backlash too. But ultimately I think it made people really proud to be part of this site. I don't think that type of thing should be stopped and can only help. But I get why some people don't want to put themselves out there to do that again. It's unfortunate that people have to act that way which goes back to my original post of this site being in a dark place. But the more things that make this feel like a community the better of a chance it has of righting itself.
Era Clear came out like 4 months after the sites inception? $700k was just last year. They were probably still recouping costs and/or not profitable if I had to guess. The issue is that the message never changed, but I'm guessing the initial message was genuine.
The risk of this is that people will go up in arms and start creating threads all over the forum about the topic. And blame the mods, of course.
That is...a valid question 😬
700k/year is a redonkulous amount of money for a forum that doesn't pay staff.
Hey Hecht saw you responding to some peeps about things and had some quick questions I was hoping you might be able to answer if that's cool.
From what I can tell most of the the mod team/staff with a presence in this thread has come out in full support of Cerium and the recent sale, and have made it known they were given a heads up as to what was going down.
My question is did mods/staff have any idea prior to this sale business being put into motion just how much money the site was pulling in?
And separate from just that number, did the mods/staff have any insight into like...these are the server costs this billing cycle, here's how much the site has brought in during that time, here's how much from ads, here's how much from era clear, here's the excess profit after paying tech staff and server costs, here's what's being done with said excess profit, etc?
Or are you all learning any such details with the rest of us via the reports on the sale?
Thanks in advance!
From what I can tell most of the the mod team/staff with a presence in this thread has come out in full support of Cerium and the recent sale, and have made it known they were given a heads up as to what was going down.
My question is did mods/staff have any idea prior to this sale business being put into motion just how much money the site was pulling in?
And separate from just that number, did the mods/staff have any insight into like...these are the server costs this billing cycle, here's how much the site has brought in during that time, here's how much from ads, here's how much from era clear, here's the excess profit after paying tech staff and server costs, here's what's being done with said excess profit, etc?
Or are you all learning any such details with the rest of us via the reports on the sale?
Thanks in advance!
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ERA and transERA especially are directly responsible for me not killing myself around this time last year coincidently. so for you it may not be the world, but for me it is.
This thread is a mess. The original purpose is just completely gone with people devolving to shit flinging toward individual users, current and ex mods... emotions are running high for obvious reasons here, but not a lot of things discussed are actually connected to the ownership of the site.
Yea, I'm not going to advocate for mods anymore getting some of the pie since I guess most of them said they don't want it. I will advocate for the tech team that now finds themselves in a crap situation, but for this post I won't touch on it. When I came here from neogaf after that whole shit in October 2017<Jesus its been a while>, this placed was billed as a "for the gamers", a community owned board and to see so many posters here try to claim and rewrite history that is was always just a single guy ownership and that it was never a community run board is so freaking disingenuous its aggravating. I'm mostly a lurker not like most of you that have posts in the thousands BUT finding out cerium consolidated and owns the whole thing then sells to something called MOBA for millions of dollars and said MOBA runs multiple boards of right wing nonsense and hate, ugh. Very disappointed, and can we please stop trying to rewrite the origin for why resetera became resetera. We all left neogaf and came here, users are what gave cerium 4.5 million dollars. It's disgusting to see some of you posters that I have come to know<oh its planetsmasher or so and ao based on the avatar yup>trying to put down and ignore people's frustration and contempt for this whole situation as nonsense.
Also: I don't know why you all have this idea about Era Clear being done explicitly to help support the site or that people were ripped off for buying it.
Note the highlighted portion in the link above (bolded here):
It was always about just removing ads from your experience.
Note the highlighted portion in the link above (bolded here):
It was always about just removing ads from your experience.
This is honestly a tiny peek at the impossibly binary struggle of moderating this place. "Fun" on the internet can often lead to minorities being trampled with harmful rhetoric - intentionally or not. Creating a perfect safe space for minorities can often require swift moderation, which invokes cries of oppression, censorship, and/or power-tripping.
We can even look at the oft-referenced community exoduses in this thread. Obviously, all of these posters left due to grievances with moderation. But AsianERA and TransERA left because they felt this place was under-moderated. I would wager that communities like Nintendo, Xbox, PC, Poli, and Sales ERA left because they felt this place was over-moderated. A simplification to be sure, but still a reflection of the difficult situation for the mods to handle.
OK so this was a super long comment so you'll have to forgive me for cutting out all the bits that weren't direct response to my comment. The first thing I will say is thank you for your clarification, it's been a while since it all happened across many different threads so you'll have to forgive me if I missed this specific clarification in this much detail before. I read the rest of your comment as well and genuinely I appreciate it.
But getting back to the empathy bit now that I fully understand your point of view, try putting yourself in my shoes. I saw a thread and users I was found of (I wouldn't describe any of them as friends in the way you have described some users here but think of them like that if it helps you empathise) being IMO rightfully unhappy with how they were being treated, and I spent most of a full day I had attempting to stick up for them and salvage what was clearly a rapidly deteriorating situation as best I could, even though many of the said users were quickly banned. When I went to bed, I wasn't banned despite posting numerous times.
When I wake up, I am banned and unable to further participate for the next 7 days bar putting in a useless ticket which I've already elaborated on, and several hours later, after I finish a full shift at work in my time zone was when your Discord messages were posted. Now you may say it was obvious that you weren't referring to me (me being someone who didn't post any insulting comments/demand resignations or any of that nonsense) with them but I certainly didn't see it like that and many others didn't, I saw it as me being bad mouthed/insulted/derided by the same/similar staff members who were preventing me from participating/helping out in what little ways I could whilst they wielded a proverbial sword of Damocles over many other of my 'friends'. By the time I'm back the damage has been long done and there's literally nothing I can do.
So yeah I certainly didn't feel very like my situation was treated with much empathy, if any. Like I still don't really get why my post was sanctioned so harshly? There were a lot of obvious trolls who came in after the initial ban wave that caught Mazi, Friendcode and a few others who only got 3 day bans or something despite taking pot shots at people there and I show good intentions all day and got treated much harsher by comparison.
I dunno if any of this got through to you at all, I doubt it TBH as I'm not as good with words as I wish I was, but I just want to reiterate I appreciate what you wrote. I didn't want to set you off at all, I just wanted to correct a comment I strongly disagreed with compared to one comment on here that summarised the situation perfectly which I similarly highlighted you know?
If nothing else I appreciate all this as well as cvxfreak's apology which I also only saw for the first time today which was generally amazing. If you're not ashamed of those comments then there's nothing else to discuss except maybe the bit about the user you had it out for which is conspicuously omitted from you explanations all this time, more power to you.
Shit...and to think i made Era logo for free because it was a community effort to get everybody together under one organized place again.
Seeing those numbers is not a good look for sure, i can't imagine volunteering for years.
In my humble opinion grabbing the bag alone is not a classy move.
Seeing those numbers is not a good look for sure, i can't imagine volunteering for years.
In my humble opinion grabbing the bag alone is not a classy move.
That's something I've been thinking about from reading this thread, but stronger moderation was inevitable.
You can't have a safer, more inclusive space without having clearer lines about what is and isn't acceptable. A safe space needs high walls. It sounds oxymoronic maybe, but that's how it ends up right? That's why you'd need the ISP-email to remain, so that not any random troll can get in. People may complain about it, especially after being actioned themselves, but as you mentioned that's also what many people want. It's an interesting balance to find.
I would imagine the "giving back" aspect would be the main driver since ad-removal is as simple as installing ublock
The members of SalesERA did not leave this site because of a one day ban. They left this site because they felt that a mod abused his power, targeted a specific user, went on a Discord to brag to his friends about how he'd shown that 'whiny loser,' and then seemingly suffered no consequences since he got to continue being a mod afterward. Whether you think that was all justified or accurate to how that mod acted is one thing, but the situation was not 'this guy got a 1 day ban and that community ran away.'
I agree the thread has lost its purpose, if it ever had a clear one, with discussions like this and I'm just adding to that, but I dislike the fud being spread about that situation. Because regardless of how you feel about what cvxfreak did in that thread, the way in which the situation was handled was not good and a textbook example of how to not handle an escalating situation. And that thread still exists in the archives so people can judge for themselves, though I think a lot of the Discord messages were deleted.
I agree the thread has lost its purpose, if it ever had a clear one, with discussions like this and I'm just adding to that, but I dislike the fud being spread about that situation. Because regardless of how you feel about what cvxfreak did in that thread, the way in which the situation was handled was not good and a textbook example of how to not handle an escalating situation. And that thread still exists in the archives so people can judge for themselves, though I think a lot of the Discord messages were deleted.
That was the end goal, yes, but that wasn't the wording used. When you went to the Era Clear subscription page it clearly said "help support the community you love" or something generic like that.
Era Clear is not the issue, we don't even know how many users subscribed that. It's just an argument to show the discrepancy between the forum discourse (by and for the community, help us keep the lights on, etc) and the reality that we came to know after the buyout.
That makes sense and I imagine one of the first changes the new owners will make is to reduce moderation.
Yeah you're definitely right. I just fall on the side of having fun with less moderation.
I think the best you can do is to talk someone in RL if possible or online in a private conversation with a person you trust. What you are doing here is self-destructive and talking against a wall.
I unfortunately don't know the full story to all those threads. But regardless how difficult the work of the mod team was, I know that they weren't handled well, especially when it leads to the destruction of communities that should be save here.
But it dosen't seem that the discussion seem to help right know. It just leads to more toxicity. That is not worth to get yourself down.
Hey, Lamptramp - speaking as someone who has gone through, and is continuing to go through, a lot this year, and Era has helped a lot with it, I know where you're coming from. It also seems like you're hurting a LOT right now, though. It might help you to take some time away from the thread to breathe. I got super super angry yesterday morning, and I needed to just get away from my computer for a little bit so I got in the car and drove around the neighborhood for a few minutes with a stupid song from a musical blasting. I don't know if something like that would help you, but it helps me.
This topic will be here when you get back, and I really think you could benefit from stepping away for a little bit. Please know that this isn't me telling you to leave - I'm just worried about you. If you need to talk to someone, you can PM me too, I'm around.
I think one problem is that it's impossible to hit EVERYBODY's preferred level of moderation activity. Some posters think the mods are overaggressive tyrants who constantly abuse their power, and other people think the mods are lackadaisical nobodies who sit around and let bad actors ruin the site. How can both of these things be true at the same time?
The reality of the situation is that Era is made of dozens if not hundreds of tiny microcommunities who all have their own expectations of the mods, and those expectations are foundationally incompatible with each other. It's simply not possible for a human moderation staff to account for every community's expectations.
nah, might as well leave this thread open as a heat sink. let the angry people vent and keep it from boiling over into the sub forums. the vast majority of posters probably didn't notice or care anyway. then dotamoba.org can get down to the business of slowly hemorrhaging money over the next few years because who the hell buys an internet forum in 2021.
I wasn't here when the site was being put together (joined shortly after it opened), but if what you are saying is true, then geez. Cerium done you hella dirty. There's literally no excuse for it.
Ugh I mean the site is pulling in 700k a year with hardly any monetizing efforts. Those are rookie numbers I'm sure they can get a return in the investment in under two years.
Your quoted portion literally talks about "taking pride in giving back" to the forum.
In reality, the forum seems to have already been generating more than enough revenue that it didn't need any charity from its users? Ergo, Era Clear was a rather unjustifiable grift to further line one person's pockets.
What part is being misunderstood here? I'd love to know if I'm incorrect, but from an outside perspective the above is the only conclusion I can draw.
This forum should have been a non-profit, and the selling of individuals' shares in it should've been offered to the community rather than giving Cerium the option to sell us out for millions.
People had been asking if there was a way they could support the site, everyone wanted to chip in to help but we're being turned down. Fast forward and the Era Clear announcement came out with "You've all been asking how you can help, here's how!" So a little more gray area than that.
The post is under the Announcement Archives and it's a little more leaning towards "helping" versus just getting no Ads. But again this was 4 months after site inception, it's entirely possible they weren't even profitable yet.
I mentioned in my post that it was also because of "trolls", not just the ban. Even so, if you think leaving and literally creating a new forum was a proportionate response to the one day ban and perceived trolling by a few members, I really don't know what to say.
Pretty much. Any other "reason" given is pure transparent deflection.
Yep well said, don't forget the overwhelmingly unpopular thread guidelines that were posted by the mod you refer to without any discussion with the community or even just Chris himself about their implementation beforehand, as well as the proverbial sword of Damocles I referred to in my previous comment that some users who genuinely didn't even have a single infraction across thousands of posts felt due to how many bans were being issued.
Like I dunno if I'll post here again but it's just... disappointing that these points are just not brought up at all by 2 former staff members when they want to summarise the situation. Like it was as simple as Chris saying something snarky/hostile/whatever, getting banned and then that was it. Nothing else contributed to the ill feeling for dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of users, they all just threw a tantrum because of a 1 day ban.
That bold section seems to be communicating that moderation will be applied equally to all members regardless of paying for Era Clear; it is not a free pass to be an ass or a get out of jail free card. "Giving back" has a strong implication of providing this option as a means to support the site.
right, I'm not freaking out and its not like I dont trust the mods, I actually do. my question is not an attack on the mods, I get that everyone is on the defense right now due to the response but I promise I'm asking in good faith.
I 100% believe if bad decisions started happening mods would walk. but thats also what I'm worried about. I want to know the execs have no interest in softening up the bans, not the mods. we all have experiences of things being ruined by buyouts, it actually feels inevitable in a world ran by money.
I fully appreciate that the mods dont want to place to change, but how much power do they really have at the end of the day in this new structure?
I actually agree with this. Knowing how staff generally operates, I think it will be addressed eventually but we need to be patient.
Cheers. But to address your last bit since you really want to know, all I can say it was a particularly nasty user who was not SalesEra at all and just joined in the drama, and they had been harassing multiple other members over the years, basically a bad faith drama vulture who likes to show up when fires start to gloat and dogpile etc. I'm not 100% sure what happened to them in the end, but I'm honestly not sorry for what I said, people like this member are a blight on this site.
Gotcha, that's fair.
Yeah that's absolutely true. The equilibrium can be so fine there's not even the guarantee it exists. As time goes on and different communities decide it's not working for them I'm not sure if we reach the point where "everyone still here is happy and no more exoduses will happen now".
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