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ResetEra Ownership Update
- Thread starter Cerium
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And then when the stranger throws their hands up and says "fine then; you pay me if you feel it's important," the topic dies.
it honestly reads less like people are upset the mods need money and are just using the mods as leverage to attack Era and cerium for selling.
some people need to be honest over what they're mad about, and it isn't treatment of the mods. Their unfairness detectors are going off but it's not the mods that suddenly caused all the posting about money.
it's the money.
some people need to be honest over what they're mad about, and it isn't treatment of the mods. Their unfairness detectors are going off but it's not the mods that suddenly caused all the posting about money.
it's the money.
You're not supposed to do anything (that's the point of this whole topic; fundamentally nothing has changed for members or staffers). The point was that you all felt it was extremely important that staff get paid for our labor. So I, being an intrepid little bean, set up a way for you all to directly contribute since you all seem to care a lot about our financial well-being. Like, I provided a solution to the problem.
Now you're hemming and hawwing.
Do you want us to have money or nah?
It's fortunate then that ResetEra was acquired by a public company that's already operating internationally and has the resources to do all the above.
An intern can use the experience they acquire, a mod not really.
They are both exploitative but certainly not at the same level. Mods volunteering for a humble community is one thing. But what is happening here is like someone who wants to support coffee culture working for free at Starbucks.
Did the topic die? Or are you just ignoring people who point out that the two things have nothing to do with each other? Because I've seen a lot of the latter still.
Also, are you not paid as an admin? Like, at all? I hope you are. That would seem to be the minimum level of fairness given the gobs of money this site makes each year and the amount of time you invest.
The interns actually like working for free because they love the company. No issue.
Like when the boss takes the tip jar. No biggie. You were supporting the company when you gave your monthly suscription. Nothing in the thanks for your support label implies its going to the person you interacted with. Maybe you should just give them the money directly via bank transfer next time instead of expecting that their boss pays them.
Like when the boss takes the tip jar. No biggie. You were supporting the company when you gave your monthly suscription. Nothing in the thanks for your support label implies its going to the person you interacted with. Maybe you should just give them the money directly via bank transfer next time instead of expecting that their boss pays them.
I actually used my mod experience handling reports etc and applied those to my IRL job using Zendesk.
The two things have everything to do with each other. You all pointed out a problem. I provided a solution. Most people have not taken the solution.
So when people complain that Bezos underpays his amazon warehouse workers they should just paypal those workers their own money? I feel like the responsibilities get mixed up there.
so it's settled then.
more about leverage and less about the welfare of era volunteers.
SOME people do have some fair points about community expectations, openness, and buy-in, but fucking hell are they lost in this mess, hidden way way way beneath all the bullshit people are treading all over the place.
why the fuck are you comparing volunteer moderator positions to amazon and jeff bezos
Both of them apparently send people to the emergency room (?)
And they're completely different, the amazon employee got a wage.
Presumably, those warehouse workers want Bezos to pay them more.
We're not equivalent to payrolled employees. We're volunteers. Anyone can make the argument that we should become payrolled, of course, but that isn't the current situation we're dealing with here right at this moment. At the moment, you all believe us volunteers should be paid. I'm asking "What is stopping you?" If it's because you don't feel like it's your responsibility to pay us anything, despite the fact that ultimately we are providing you- the members- with a service that is laborious specifically because of the harassment and bad-faith engagement we get from some of the members...
Then just say that?
To illustrate the point that the person who is making the profit is obviously the one with the responsibility.
Maybe the community should stick together and issue an ultimatum to the people in charge. Pay the mods with a few % of ad revenue, 1 or 2% IDK, or we leave. The community paying the mods themselves is a disaster waiting to happen. The people donating the most will receive more warnings before being banned. This will produce a very toxic environment in the long run.
Okay, I'm gonna bite because you actually keep going with this like it's a gotcha - certainly, you must know that the argument is for ResetEra: The Business to pay you, right? I can't grab the ad revenue and hand it to you myself.
FWIW I actually don't think I mind the idea of staff having tip jars or whatever, but that's got nothing to do with the responsibility of your employer to compensate fairly.
Why do people want the mods to be paid? They're using their free time to volunteer to moderate an internet forum. Other people use their free time to volunteer picking up garbage, helping the homeless, protesting for rights etc. If you're going to pay someone to volunteer, why not do so for people that actually improve society?
I use a lot of forums and never understood the fascination with forum moderating. I respect them and moderators of all forums using their free time to do it, but that's about it.
I use a lot of forums and never understood the fascination with forum moderating. I respect them and moderators of all forums using their free time to do it, but that's about it.
You know, I think back to Neogaf how the staff was evasive about being paid for so long until one of the mods broke down and admitted to it purely being a volunteer position. But so many people chased after that mod position, for that shiny red text and the validation of being "elevated" above the rest of the website. It's wild to think the same sort of thing happened on Era too.
Naturally, we want people who work hard to get the pay they deserve
But with Era raking in so much money, shouldn't you all have been provided for? You were all fucked over by greed.
Naturally, we want people who work hard to get the pay they deserve
But with Era raking in so much money, shouldn't you all have been provided for? You were all fucked over by greed.
Equating corralling gamers console warring to helping the homeless. Lmao.
I think everyone should get paid, but the reason why nonprofits rely on volunteers is because their revenue goes back into accomplishing their mission. They are literally not allowed to generate profit for the owners. Pay is determined by a board of directors who decide what work is necessary.
This is not the case for era. It's a for-profit that exploited free labor.
If I were properly payrolled yes. But... I'm not. I'm a volunteer. If you want me to be payrolled, that is a different discussion for the long haul, and it's not a discussion I am above having. But right now you all are asking volunteers to be compensated.... Like...volunteer has a very specific definition.
The entire argument also underscores the fact that staff really aren't being listened to. What we want most is for our members to just treat us more kindly.
That's it.
That's all we want.
The community wants you to have the money the community already generated for the owner who cashed out. That's what people are arguing. People are saying they already gave the site income by creating, consuming, and curating content, which is using your work to help run it, and want that money to go to you because people are equating volunteers to employees, which is where the slippery slope starts and the muddiness begins.
People are not saying they should be paying you directly after the fact this was all revealed. Especially given the transparency and such. That's completely changing their argument. They are 100% talking about past income generated that is now in the previous owners hands.
I don't even care if you guys wanna volunteer for free or not, that is totally up to you. I just see the staff and regular members here arguing past eachother and it's bugging me because it makes this place feel like it's falling apart.
The standing mods do not want to be paid. You're fighting for a cause that doesn't want it and that's completely up to them. We also don't get to see the total inner workings behind the scenes, so we have a limited view of what's really going on. It's a muddy issue because that income was also generated from us, the users. At what point does a paid employee, volunteer, and income generating user intersect? Especially since we don't know the strictness of duties and actual position responsibilities that would get you in trouble ourselves. It's a muddy slope.
This is my take anyways. Maybe I'm wrong.
Dividing up the twenty in my pocket, can it come close to covering the 4.5 million dollary-doos extracted from this place for the benefit of one person?
But hey, if someone's shaking out Cerium's pockets and staff doesn't want any, I'll take some without shame. Both because that'd be much more effective than soliciting small era donations (which afaik has historically not been allowed to individuals anyway) and will go a considerably longer way to cover a lot of expensive life necessities like medicine and keeping the weather out. Because what's stopping me from being the personal benefactor of everyone whose passion gets taken advantage of for extensive unpaid work is that I find it difficult enough to consistently cover those necessities to begin with. Ya'll should be paid and I won't be shamed or shut up with glib accusations of miserliness because I won't take food out of my mouth to do it. If that was nobody's intent, then go in peace.
Ya'll deserve money for your labor. That's it. That's the point. And seeing such a hoard walk away in a single man's pocket just underlines that belief.
But hey, if someone's shaking out Cerium's pockets and staff doesn't want any, I'll take some without shame. Both because that'd be much more effective than soliciting small era donations (which afaik has historically not been allowed to individuals anyway) and will go a considerably longer way to cover a lot of expensive life necessities like medicine and keeping the weather out. Because what's stopping me from being the personal benefactor of everyone whose passion gets taken advantage of for extensive unpaid work is that I find it difficult enough to consistently cover those necessities to begin with. Ya'll should be paid and I won't be shamed or shut up with glib accusations of miserliness because I won't take food out of my mouth to do it. If that was nobody's intent, then go in peace.
Ya'll deserve money for your labor. That's it. That's the point. And seeing such a hoard walk away in a single man's pocket just underlines that belief.
The members provide this site with income via ad revenue and some via the era clear membership, and also provide the sites content via posting. Moderators work to provide a non hateful environment for people to open more pageviews and post more content. It follows that money made would presumably be paid to people that keep the place running smoothly.
I believe due to the Resetera LLC implied co op stuff when the site started people were operating under this assumption. I think any site that starts volunteer run that starts making big bucks should kick back something to the volunteers. Even game devs that get bought out pay bonuses to staff lol
You don't think it's fucked up that money goes to someone most people never interact with instead of the day to day workers that actually run the place? Why was anyone posting here to make some guy they don't talk to or interact with in any way a millionare instead of one of the many other, smaller forums that might need that revenue to keep the lights on? While they people they actually interact with are not only unpaid but apparently miserable under emergency room visit inducing stress?
It is what it is I guess. No one is forcing moderators to stay on unpaid.
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I think the disconnect here is a matter of emphasis. Some are emphasizing the structural issue of ownership exploiting the unpaid labor of volunteers, and from that perspective, these "ok, pay me then" takes would definitely be missing the point. Others are emphasizing that the staff here doesn't want to be paid. "Okay, pay me then" wasn't the original response to bringing up the payment thing, "I don't want this to be a paid position" was, and "okay, pay me then" was the response to those of us who kept bringing it up anyway.
The idea that online spaces don't have a role in improving society seems pretty myopic.
If I were properly payrolled yes. But... I'm not. I'm a volunteer. If you want me to be payrolled, that is a different discussion for the long haul, and it's not a discussion I am above having. But right now you all are asking volunteers to be compensated.... Like...volunteer has a very specific definition.
The entire argument also underscores the fact that staff really aren't being listened to. What we want most is for our members to just treat us more kindly.
That's it.
That's all we want.
Okay, I can probably concede that if volunteers want to stay that way, let them have that pathway. But it left no path for those who think they should have a paid position.
Let me ask you this, if I may:
When the acquisition was announced to you by Cerium, if he had said "the new owners will implement that all staff positions will be paid now", how would you have responded? Specifically, in the 'definition' of your role changing, if it had come from the top down.
So why people are so mad? Capitalism won? Do we lose something? Is Era going to charge for something? Why are people so mad ? I really don't understand. It would be cool if mods and admins were paid. If people are so concerned with them why don't implement a "tip" button like twitter?
Attacking the mods for volunteering their free time and not demanding compensation is weird. Waiting for one of these posters to create a gofundme for them.
I and many others feel like the site has been on a huge slide downwards for a while now. And those of us that came from GAF really hoped it would have gone a different way. Feels like this go around there was even LESS transparency about thing than the old place; and on top of the feeling of decline, the entirety of the forum gets up and sold to some rando corp for 4.5m?
This is a community that has meltdowns over people owning property and renting it out as a landlord. I have no idea how one could be confused about how many would take this. Its frustrating, and it definitely feels like the slow clap starting preceding the conclusion of a final scene of a play or something. In just the last year we have had major exodus in Sales-ERA, The Politics ERA threads and more. The mood is morose asf. I cannot imagine anyone jumping to applaud now that some company buys it wholesale and we find out mods still arent compensated while the buying company talks about its hopes of future monetization and 'changes'.
Bleh. Forums are pretty much dead, and I get that; but being able to tell myself that this place would hold on allowed me to kinda put off embracing that reality and it just sucks to get hit with it like this. Not that it wasn't somewhat forecasted, but still. If there were other left leaning (or at least anti hate and not totally right wing looney) forums/communities that I knew about I might not even care so much. But they are rare.
I didn't need to tell them that I was a moderator, for starters (well, former at the time). Without going too deep into it, the report system and some other mod tools this forum software currently uses is incredibly similar to what Zendesk is like currently. So when I started the job and they began training me, I took to Zendesk incredibly fast because of my time here.
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