• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
17,446
what is more visible than at the top of every page
A thread in a high traffic forum with a title people will actually click on. I bet most people reflexively close those announcements because most of them are about server downtimes or contests or whatever. An existential discussion on the forum shouldn't get the same treatment as an Amiibo giveaway.

And again, I'm totally at a loss why you can't do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Okay, but I emphasize again, you're not telling me Cerium or admins said this, you're just telling me 'a lot of people' said they expected it. Even if that's true and you could bring back those discord rooms, a bunch of people assuming something isn't substantial evidence that's how that thing is or that it was even presented as that thing. It can just mean that they were making a bad assumption (not just bad as in it turns out to be untrue, but bad as in they had no cause for believing it in the first place)

I am saying either Cerium or the admins (most likely the admins, because Cerium was always just in the background) absolutely said this. Yes, it's been four years and I don't remember the specifics, but yes, it was said. The assumption didn't come from out of the ether, it came from actual conversations about the structure of the new forum and was one of the main draws to follow the group of Admins that were vouching for Cerium.
 
Sep 20, 2021
186
A thread in a high traffic forum with a title people will actually click on. I bet most people reflexively close those announcements because most of them are about server downtimes or contests or whatever. An existential discussion on the forum shouldn't get the same treatment as an Amiibo giveaway.

And again, I'm totally at a loss why you can't do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

This.
 

weblaus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
933
Yeah we're gonna sneak through a 4.5 million dollar acquisition.

The 4.5 million dollars that weren't mentioned (same with all other financial and owneership details) in the announcement at all and only really came more into view when someone dug up MOBAs press release near the end of the first page?
 

Ikaruga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,055
Austria
Half a mill in profits per year, gatdamm, ResetEra should have been plated in gold with diamond sprinkles before Cerium left.

Why wasn't any of that cash poured back into ResetEra for all that good stuff we have been asking for for years:

Likes
Animated avatars
Signatures
This stuff doesn't cost a penny. Likes can be implemented within seconds, signatures as well, they are base line of this kind of board software, they weren't implemented for a reason I guess. Same with animated avatars, though most boards don't allow them.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,923
So does this mean a new place will form? sorry i'm not reading 88 pages

I mean probably not. I'm sure some people will wander off, but that's no different than any other month.

A total exodus on the back of this announcement would feel pretty kneejerk and probably just result in a bunch of low-population splinter forums nobody will be happy with.

This stuff doesn't cost a penny. Likes can be implemented within seconds, signatures as well, they are base line of this kind of board software, they weren't implemented for a reason I guess. Same with animated avatars, though most boards don't allow them.

I can't imagine anyone seriously wants signatures. That's like 2002-era nonsense.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I am saying either Cerium or the admins (most likely the admins, because Cerium was always just in the background) absolutely said this. Yes, it's been four years and I don't remember the specifics, but yes, it was said. The assumption didn't come from out of the ether, it came from actual conversations about the structure of the new forum and was one of the main draws to follow the group of Admins that were vouching for Cerium.
I don't have screenshots and my memory isn't that good in my advanced age, plus it all happened very fast and in a bunch of places, but I'm willing to bet all my money that if at the time it was clearly communicated that this forum would run as for profit venture which is aimed to maximize profits that go mostly to one person it would have not succeeded in (mostly) inheriting GAF's user base.

I'm also willing to bet not nearly as many people would have had their adblock turned off on ERA if they knew how profitable it is and where the profits go to.

But with that being said, I think it's fair to say that people should never assume such things as long as the owners aren't willing to open the books and be transparent about finances, and I hope people learn that lesson moving forward.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
So you just closed the banner message about the change of ownership, and now you're complaining about it?

Meanwhile, enough people have actually read the banner that they've managed to generate an 89-page discussion about it. If the intention was to completely bury the announcement then you'd have to say that someone did a poor job of it.
There's a regular flow of banner messages on this site often "notifying" posters to things as benign as site maintenance. I don't know how the banner looks on desktop, but I completely passed it as something small and not worth my attention as a mobile poster. Something that reads "here's some information about an update in site ownership" sounds similar to a ToS update. Like "hey there was a small change that won't impact anything".

In reality, Resetera was sold for $4.5 million to a company that runs a variety of other boards. This information, or at least this thread, should be pinned to the top of every sub forum on Era.

But it won't be.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
I think most people are taking a wait-and-see stance regarding how things will changes with the new MOBA ownership.

I mean, it's massively pre-mature to assume shit's going to hit the fan purely because they own some questionable boards.

They would be stupid business people if they tried to massively changed what ERA is. You don't throw down millions to just completely destroy it.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,249
No, it started because Evilore made the old platform uninhabitable. We needed a new platform and Resetera became that, but it was never the communities because we don't have a legal framework under which a domain like Resetera can be communally owned. It's less "conspiracy" or "grift" and more like "How are we supposed to comply with tax laws". So the result is that Resetera was owned like any other LLC was, by a group of wealthy individuals.

As for the forum's philosophical ideals, that came from it's userbase being leftist leaning, but as Nepenthe mentioned, there was a good portion of time where Neogaf residue stayed on and they allowed plenty of shitty things to be said because that was just the community at the time.

This whole idea that "We were based on the principles of community owned property" is pure fanfiction. And if you think that's wrong, prove it. Where was this said that the community owned this platform?

I disagree that ResetEra couldn't be community-owned. I'm no business law expert, but I'm sure there could have been some system like a private corp where we could optionally buy-in to voting shares.

Back in 2017-2018 there were some of us who were already concerned with the lack of transparency and the profit motivations of the leadership, but most people didn't care to think about it. I had suggested back then that ResetEra become a not-for-profit org and all excess revenue be donated to charities. I think some sort of foundation, similar to open source foundations and the like, would have served the long-term interests of the community much better than Cerium's profit-focused motivations.

But we never even got the chance to have that discussion with Cerium. He wasn't interested in the community.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
I mean, it's massively pre-mature to assume shit's going to hit the fan purely because they own some questionable boards.

They would be stupid business people if they tried to massively changed what ERA is. You don't throw down millions to just completely destroy it.
Unless you're EA.

200.gif
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,799
I mean probably not. I'm sure some people will wander off, but that's no different than any other month.

A total exodus on the back of this announcement would feel pretty kneejerk and probably just result in a bunch of low-population splinter forums nobody will be happy with.



I can't imagine anyone seriously wants signatures. That's like 2002-era nonsense.
People deserve to know which animes I am watching
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,738
The 4.5 million dollars that weren't mentioned (same with all other financial and owneership details) in the announcement at all and only really came more into view when someone dug up MOBAs press release near the end of the first page?
Some of y'all legit talk back just to talk back.

The point was even if we wanted to hide this, we couldn't. Nothing we do here is "a criminal fuckin' conspiracy."
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,468
Norn Iron
If it truly was sold in the interest of the community, and not mainly for the payout, why wasn't the wider community given a heads-up that more people were needed to help keep things running (in terms of effort as we can see the funding was coming in fine), with the warning that we were heading towards potentially losing our community's independence if we didn't pull together, before looking for external buyers who we can now only hope won't change things for the worse?
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,715
I am saying either Cerium or the admins (most likely the admins, because Cerium was always just in the background) absolutely said this. Yes, it's been four years and I don't remember the specifics, but yes, it was said. The assumption didn't come from out of the ether, it came from actual conversations about the structure of the new forum and was one of the main draws to follow the group of Admins that were vouching for Cerium.
Well, as someone who was involved in 2 discords following the migration, one of them being one of the bigger ones, I can tell you don't recall anything like this. And rumors like this can, in fact, spin out of the ether, or atleast as close to the ether as it gets. Someone says they wonder how think Restera will be owned, another person suggests that Cerium could sell it to them afterwards as a hypothetical idea they get, a week later someone else asked and they go "I think someone told me Cerium said that he's gonna sell it to admins afterwards" and through the game of telephone that's the statement htat gets popular when no admin said anything of the sort.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but without actual evidence, it's as equal a possibility as anything else. Assuming that even THAT actually happened and this whole thing isn't a memory error at all. Confabulation is a thing that happens, after all.

But without any memories of the event myself, I don't think it's right to promote the idea that Resetera 'sold itself as' communally owned. It was and is still community caring. That's it.
 
Last edited:

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,677
I vehemently disagree on that front.
So either Poodlestrike is a liar, or you are somehow in a better position to know this sort of thing and obviously have the metrics and examples to back up your claim which you will provide shortly.

I think the person who is literally on the staff would know what they are talking about.
 
Sep 20, 2021
186
If it truly was sold in the interest of the community, and not mainly for the payout, why wasn't the wider community given a heads-up that more people were needed to help keep things running (in terms of effort as we can see the funding was coming in fine), with the warning that we were heading towards potentially losing our community's independence if we didn't pull together, before looking for external buyers who we can now only hope won't change things for the worse?

I can think of 4.5 million reasons why that didn't happen...
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,775
I'm struggling to figure out what is genuine worry at this point, and what is concern trolling. There are a lot of people out there who hate Era and what the community stands for, and we know they've got accounts here too.

When the only way of knowing about this is some small banner at the top of the page about an "update on ownership" that actually leads to an 88 page thread that can't be found anywhere else? Yeah forgive me for thinking Cerium and others just wanted to sneak this announcement through.
Here is how you sneak it through----you don't make an announcement. At all. I'm not saying there isn't some validity to wanting this in Off Topic, even if I disagree, but I'm getting frustrated at folks looking for the worst possible interpretations in regards to the sell and announcement, and then letting that worst possible view spread to the point where they're essentially shit talking admins and mods in here.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Why is it that the "different opinions" that will get people banned are always in topics centering on race, bigotry, equality, and sexual representation?
Seriously with this? It's literally because of what I said already: Most people don't want to post differing opinions in most threads because of the inconsistent enforcement of rules and the heavy-handed moderation. It's not a difficult concept. You are being completely disingenuous if you're going to sit there and honestly say that people are banned for differing viewpoints only in those types of topics you listed. That's a flat out lie.

And if your remarks to me are some not-at-all subtle attempt to paint me as someone who holds shit views on topics of race, bigotry, equality, and sexual representation then you could not be further off the mark.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,715
I disagree that ResetEra couldn't be community-owned. I'm no business law expert, but I'm sure there could have been some system like a private corp where we could optionally buy-in to voting shares.

Back in 2017-2018 there were some of us who were already concerned with the lack of transparency and the profit motivations of the leadership, but most people didn't care to think about it. I had suggested back then that ResetEra become a not-for-profit org and all excess revenue be donated to charities. I think some sort of foundation, similar to open source foundations and the like, would have served the long-term interests of the community much better than Cerium's profit-focused motivations.

But we never even got the chance to have that discussion with Cerium. He wasn't interested in the community.
If you're asking me about whether Resetera could or should be community owned, then sure, I am am more than open to that and assuming some business law lawyers came in to make sure everything was legally stable, I would have supported that kind of path for Resetera moving forward. There would be downsides and concerns, mostly technical as the benefits of corperate ownership is what Cerium listed before and couldn't seem to provide on his own. But yeah, I'm for it. No objections on the idea from me.

But what I am arguing against and disputing is that Resetera was sold as being communally owned, which makes Ceriums reneging on that commitment a betrayal. He never made such a commitment, even if I can agree that it might have been good if he did.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
So either Poodlestrike is a liar, or you are somehow in a better position to know this sort of thing and obviously have the metrics and examples to back up your claim which you will provide shortly.

I think the person who is literally on the staff would know what they are talking about.
I've seen enough bad bans to know I disagree with that and let's leave it at that.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,232
Dark Space
Seriously with this? It's literally because of what I said already: Most people don't want to post differing opinions in most threads because of the inconsistent enforcement of rules and the heavy-handed moderation. It's not a difficult concept. You are being completely disingenuous if you're going to sit there and honestly say that people are banned for differing viewpoints only in those types of topics you listed. That's a flat out lie.

And if your remarks to me are some not-at-all subtle attempt to paint me as someone who holds shit views on topics of race, bigotry, equality, and sexual representation then you could not be further off the mark.
You are the one painting the board as some echo chamber where just disagreeing on a topic will get you banned.

Give me an example which falls outside of those topics I listed where, when not expressing your view like an asshole, you could cop a ban simply for having a different opinion.

The TOS is what it is. People disagree civilly all day. You literally can't just disagree with someone on some mundane topic and get banned, that is utter bullshit.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,894
A thread in a high traffic forum with a title people will actually click on. I bet most people reflexively close those announcements because most of them are about server downtimes or contests or whatever. An existential discussion on the forum shouldn't get the same treatment as an Amiibo giveaway.

And again, I'm totally at a loss why you can't do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
I actually do see and read those banners. They work.

What def. doesn't work is pretty much any "sticky" or "pinned" thread.

Those, for years in forum/forum-esque places, definitely have the opposite effect.

I wouldn't go as far as labeling the phenomenon a cobra effect or perverse incentive – but pinned & sticky topics are pretty much universally ignored in a similar way to a ToS agreement.

There are better ways to keep a topic's attention... attentive.
 

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,344
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
If outside discussion and summaries are prohibited, this thread could stand to be more organized for the sake of new readers. It's 89 pages long with 1 threadmark, created three days ago, while staff have answered numerous important questions to the best of their ability in the time since.

To get even the beginning of a full picture of the sale, a forum visitor has to click the pop-up banner, read the OP and scroll down to post #46 to hopefully spot a link to the press release by ResetEra's new owner.
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,575
If this MOBA Group did do their due diligence and is aware of Era's history, they're probably banking on people clinging to the idea of a last big forum bastion that won't be able to be replicated -- and will milk that sentiment while they can, ramping up ads and profit, while maybe avoiding the outright alt right sensibilities of their every other forum.

You've had some good thoughts in this mega thread and I've appreciated your commentary. I've been thinking about the business value of buying a website like ResetEra and what I would do as the new owner of this asset. In a world of declining forum engagement, what's Era's "competitive advantage"?

For one, it's a big forum that covers a wide range of topics related to video games. I actually like the fact that I can browse posts that cover new releases, then scroll down a bit and see something related to a niche retro subject. Having to sign up and manage 5-10 smaller websites just to cover my interests is not very appealing.

Another advantage is the commitment to a bigotry-free environment. It's honestly the thing that I value the most because so many other places are just disgusting cesspits that I wouldn't spend 30 seconds on. I can't think of any other site of this size that comes close. Yeah, there have been some bungled interactions with specific communities, but I don't know of anyone else even attempting these things.

Now, if I just spent several million on a rather unique website, why would I come in and try to throw all this away and make it conform to my other websites? Sites that appear to have their own struggling membership issues. I'd view this as a bit of diversification and lean into ResetEra's strengths while trying to improve the things that clearly aren't working. There's obviously a market for it. Why would I buy Era just to turn it into yet another alt-right safe space (driving away the existing users) when I could have easily just invested that money in one of my other shitty MOBA/MMO websites?

Anyway, I'm IT guy and not a business pro, so that's just my best attempt to see a positive way for this to work out in the long term. Changes will definitely come, and I expect a lot more monetization, but maybe it won't turn into a racist wasteland. It will be interesting to look back at this thread a year from now and reflect on how it all played out.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I disagree that ResetEra couldn't be community-owned. I'm no business law expert, but I'm sure there could have been some system like a private corp where we could optionally buy-in to voting shares.

I did see an Era related forum transfer ownership into some kind of charity status, sounds like it was a fair bit of legal work though.
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,974
A thread in a high traffic forum with a title people will actually click on. I bet most people reflexively close those announcements because most of them are about server downtimes or contests or whatever. An existential discussion on the forum shouldn't get the same treatment as an Amiibo giveaway.

And again, I'm totally at a loss why you can't do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Yuuuup.

Notice how much more active this thread got after that other thread was up for only 10 minutes or so.

Once the MOBA Network branding, ad takeovers, and cross-linking kicks in, it'll be a liiiiiittle bit harder to ignore.

8F86L7Z.png


IBwXL4u.jpg
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
A thread in a high traffic forum with a title people will actually click on. I bet most people reflexively close those announcements because most of them are about server downtimes or contests or whatever. An existential discussion on the forum shouldn't get the same treatment as an Amiibo giveaway.

And again, I'm totally at a loss why you can't do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
it doesn't help that the Announcements forum may as well be invisible. As far as I can tell, it and the vault subforum only show up on the home page? They're not in the sidebar or dropdown navigation so it's incredibly easy to spend a million hours on this site and never look at the front page, since you can just bookmark the gaming/etc forum and use the top/sidebar navigation to jump to the other subforums (minus those two).
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,249
If you're asking me about whether Resetera could or should be community owned, then sure, I am am more than open to that and assuming some business law lawyers came in to make sure everything was legally stable, I would have supported that kind of path for Resetera moving forward. There would be downsides and concerns, mostly technical as the benefits of corperate ownership is what Cerium listed before and couldn't seem to provide on his own. But yeah, I'm for it. No objections on the idea from me.

But what I am arguing against and disputing is that Resetera was sold as being communally owned, which makes Ceriums reneging on that commitment a betrayal. He never made such a commitment, even if I can agree that it might have been good if he did.

Yeah I don't remember any specific statements about Era being community-owned, other than a few people who floated that idea. Certainly Era being community driven was floated around often in the early days. There was a recurring idea from a lot of us that organizationally we wanted to be different from GAF. And yet from the very beginning I don't think Cerium and whoever else co-owned the site at that time was engaging the community on those topics, especially around financials or ownership status. Organizationally it quickly became more like GAF than not, and eventually the community-driven dream faded away in the collective mindset. I think there was also a different, more community/family vibe when it was just the people who came over in the lifeboats, vs. when they made Era open registration.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,738
If it truly was sold in the interest of the community, and not mainly for the payout, why wasn't the wider community given a heads-up that more people were needed to help keep things running (in terms of effort as we can see the funding was coming in fine), with the warning that we were heading towards potentially losing our community's independence if we didn't pull together, before looking for external buyers who we can now only hope won't change things for the worse?
Let's ignore the facts that:

- Staff have said plenty of times we're understaffed for years and most no one gave a shit.
- That plenty of people we invite don't want to come aboard either because they're too busy or because they don't be want to deal with all of the effort it takes to maintain this place.
- That the effort is honestly less the physical workload than the mental health effects of trying in earnest to get a place like Era to work and having that earnestness dismissed or even taken advantage of by trolls and drama mongers.
- That members have outright said on numerous occasions, including in this very thread, that our mental health literally just does not matter.

Again, the ownership doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day. The communal aspect of Era comes down to the relationship between the staff and members, not whether the guy at the tippy-top is indeed a guy, a board, or a corporation. People were under the impression that it was option number 2 all this time and either still hated the place and its staff, or didn't care because it didn't affect them much.

So honestly... what does this buyout matter in the moment beyond worst-case, most cynical hypotheticals you can think of?
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,323
Yuuuup.

Notice how much more active this thread got after that other thread was up for only 10 minutes or so.

Once the MOBA Network branding, ad takeovers, and cross-linking kicks in, it'll be a liiiiiittle bit harder to ignore.

8F86L7Z.png


IBwXL4u.jpg
There's full site wraps when you haven't logged in here lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Well, as someone who was involved in 2 discords following the migration, one of them being one of the bigger ones, I can tell you don't recall anything like this. And rumors like this can, in fact, spin out of the ether, or atleast as close to the ether as it gets. Someone says they wonder how think Restera will be owned, another person suggests that Cerium could sell it to them afterwards as a hypothetical idea they get, a week later someone else asked and they go "I think Cerium said that he's gonna sell it to admins afterwards" and through the game of telephone that's the statement htat gets spread with no basis in reality.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but without actual evidence, it's as equal a possibility as anything else. Assuming that even THAT actually happened and this whole thing isn't a memory error at all. Confabulation is a thing that happens, after all.

But without any memories of the event myself, I don't think it's right to promote the idea that Resetera 'sold itself as' communally owned. It was and is still community caring. That's it.

That's fair. I guess the closest we'll get is the thread that was just linked:

www.resetera.com

Resetera revenue should go back to the community and gaming charity causes

It’s one person’s site plain and simple. There will eventually be ads and someone will profit and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just don’t click the ads if you don’t like them or use an ad-blocker. Patreon isn’t going to happen for ethical reasons - can create a major conflict of interest if...

It was locked after two days with this comment:

We appreciate everyone's input into this matter. All of your suggestions have been read and will be taken into consideration in any future direction this board may take. Thanks again!

It's possible that I really believed it would be taken into consideration once the site started generating a profit. And I feel like I believed that based on similar discussions on the discords that involved the leaders making the transition possible. Apparently none of that was taken into serious consideration, and the Admins appear to be fine with that.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,923
It's possible that I really believed it would be taken into consideration once the site started generating a profit. And I feel like I believed that based on similar discussions on the discords that involved the leaders making the transition possible. Apparently none of that was taken into serious consideration, and the Admins appear to be fine with that.

Taking something into consideration doesn't automatically mean that they're going to do that thing, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.