Rich, White NYC Parents Enraged by Plan to Increase Diversity in Local Schools

[Powdered Egg]

I'm sure those parents' future hedge fund manager and assistant VP of business development children will be able to handle being around a poor kid in school for a year or two before they graduate and spend the rest of their lives doing everything in their power to make their lives worse.

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They will never forget that humiliating pickup basketball game loss to Dayquan and get their revenge in the boardroom lol.

Sounds like shit parents who will raise the next Trump, Milo, Coulter, etc.

Fuck them.

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These parents are White Liberals. There kids will grow up to vote for Chelsea Clinton or Sasha Obama and will clutch their purses or cross the street at the site of "thugs".

 

[PanickyFool]

This is why the parents are mad, and while it may make them selfish, it doesn't make them racists or terrible people as some in this thread seemed quick to label them, and i have a hard time believing most people here wouldnt act the same way in their circumstances.

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Actions can be both in a person's self interest and racist. The intent does not distinguish itself from the outcomes.

 

[vicisac]

It's not just racial diversity. It looks bad for one school to pass standardized testing with flying colors while another school struggles to pass. I'm not sure about New York, but around here if a school underperforms by too much, the parents are allowed by law to pull out their kids and send them somewhere else in the district.

By forcing such a large percentage to be underperforming students, you'll lower the overall performance of the school, but you'll raise the performance of the other schools that receive the displaced students.

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Ah, thanks for clarifying, it was a confusing point. In that case, it's quite clear the motivation behind this for the parents to oppose it, whoever the school authority is, is trying to make their school worse, reducing opportunities for their own kids.

Frankly, I'd do the same. It's an easy solution for the board too, make education worse for everyone rather than improve the underperforming schools.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

They will never forget that humiliating pickup basketball game loss to Dayquan and get their revenge in the boardroom lol.

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Oh man, this made me laugh out loud for real because of all my experiences with young executives. Kudos.

 

[Tiger Priest]

As one of those tutors who primarily serves über-wealthy Upper East and Upper West Side kids I can tell you - not a single one of them attends a neighborhood public school. They are all in private schools (which are crazy small - 100-200 people per grade max) or one of the magnet public schools like Hunter, Stuyvesant, or Bronx Science. Those in regular public school are not the ultra wealthy and competition is cutthroat. My cousin, for instance, who has a 93 average in a public school, was not accepted into ANY public high school in NYC - think about that! So I'm not surprised that these parents are desperate to preserve as many spots as possible for their kids.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

If they're kids so smart, why they so worried?

 

[Zoe]

My cousin, for instance, who has a 93 average in a public school, was not accepted into ANY public high school in NYC - think about that!

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That's crazy. What happens then?

 

[Apath]

A lot of people choose where they live based on the schools and pay a lot of money in taxes as a result to fund those schools. It is absolutely natural and not the least bit surprising for parents to be furious at any decision which could compromise their kid getting into the school they want.

 

[darkhunger]

A lot of people choose where they live based on the schools and pay a lot of money in taxes as a result to fund those schools. It is absolutely natural and not the least bit surprising for parents to be furious at any decision which could compromise their kid getting into the school they want.

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Yup, good school districts also tend to cost more to rent/buy into too, simply because NYC schools are so competitive (it can be tougher from an admissions perspective to get into some good NYC schools than into Harvard University, for instance), so it can be a way for parents to secure a good education for their kids.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

A lot of people choose where they live based on the schools and pay a lot of money in taxes as a result to fund those schools. It is absolutely natural and not the least bit surprising for parents to be furious at any decision which could compromise their kid getting into the school they want.

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this will happen regardless of interventionist diversity initiatives as everyone wealthy enough is moving near good districts which then results in those districts becoming overcrowded and thus students losing seats no matter what their families wanted for them.

 

[Tiger Priest]

I agree with this, tutoring for shit like the SAT and ACT is generally worthless, or marginal at best.

I was referring more to tutoring for actual academic subjects. I did very well in school, 4s and 5s on every AP test, but struggled to "get" physics. My uncle, an aerospace engineer, sat me down and taught it to me like a tutor. His time was easily worth thousands, and it was the difference for me between foregoing anything in the physics field and my current career in aerospace.

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Nonsense. Most of my students improve 4-5 points on the ACT and I've had one improve 14 points. It's a huge advantage to have a good private tutor - the issue is that there are so many unqualified ones or ones who coast on their credentials and charge a fortune without developing an effective method.

That's crazy. What happens then?

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Now she has to appeal the decision and is applying late to private schools (which she can't actually afford and which are all basically filled already). Even if the appeal is successful she may have to be bused like an hour and a half to a substandard school. And she's a very bright kid!

 

[Cranston]

I assure you, those parents are not Trump supporters. Trump New Yorkers would simply send their kids private and laugh at the do-gooders.

What you are witnessing is the modern day, Twitter liberal - equality and diversity is the greatest thing ever, until it's your kid that has to give up his seat. For what it's worth, I actually do sympathize with them; I have two boys, six and three, and I'm resigned to the fact that I will have to pay for their education. The states that aren't super selective are absolutely awful.

 

[Dude Abides]

Samantha bee's husband is one of them. He was opposed to a similar idea for desegregating upper west side schools a few years ago.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled...s_latest_school_integration_battleground.html

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This is what i was referring to earlier, but i had the wrong school number.

A lot of people are discussing race here but didn't the begining of the video indicate it was kids who were below grade level, why are posters saying 'white people this' and things such as the below:

Am I missing something here because the parents are being dicks but race seems to be factoring in to a lot of people's reactions.

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This is also true. The concern is that the lower-performing kids will hold the class back to the detriment of the higher performing kids. If the kids coming in were non-white but coming from wealthy backgrounds with high test scores, the parent's wouldn't be freaking out nearly as much.

 

[Deleted member 29676]

this will happen regardless of interventionist diversity initiatives as everyone wealthy enough is moving near good districts which then results in those districts becoming overcrowded and thus students losing seats no matter what their families wanted for them.

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This is why nimby oppose density increases. As long as no new housing is built school enrollment won't increase much. Also why new development often has to show impact on local district enrollment before it is approved.

 

[Theshow84]

Why would they care about an old old wooden ship used during the civil war era?

 

[Deleted member 6230]

This is why nimby oppose density increases. As long as no new housing is built school enrollment won't increase much. Also why new development often has to show impact on local district enrollment before it is approved.

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that's silly because nimby leads to this situation.

 

[CrocM]

These are the same people that protest and sue when affordable housing gets built in their neighborhood.

 

[The Llama]

As one of those tutors who primarily serves über-wealthy Upper East and Upper West Side kids I can tell you - not a single one of them attends a neighborhood public school. They are all in private schools (which are crazy small - 100-200 people per grade max) or one of the magnet public schools like Hunter, Stuyvesant, or Bronx Science. Those in regular public school are not the ultra wealthy and competition is cutthroat. My cousin, for instance, who has a 93 average in a public school, was not accepted into ANY public high school in NYC - think about that! So I'm not surprised that these parents are desperate to preserve as many spots as possible for their kids.

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What the hell is going on in NYC public schools?!

 

[gcwy]

I hope this goes through. It reminds me of when the busing system was introduced in Charlotte, it helped decrease segregation and increase diversity, and it was going pretty well, until they had to jettison the whole thing because of some parents who thought their kids were at a disadvantage, and of course, due to racism. There's a great report on this:

 

[bangai-o]

What the hell is going on in NYC public schools?!

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Seems like a lot of test score driven education.

 

[Pikachu]

What the hell is going on in NYC public schools?!

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IMO you need to personally mess up not to match with a school in the first round. Fairly certain every borough but Manhattan has zoned schools (AKA you're guaranteed admission even if you rank it 12th).

https://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/...missions-process-only-works-most-of-the-time/

Brief description of how it works.

When I applied to high school I listed five schools and got matched with my first choice, which was a lottery only school (no grade requirements).

 

[Messofanego]

So you're a liberal or prorgressive white person and are pro-diversity or pro-integration. But you're not in favour of a mandate. Diversity shouldn't be forced on you, it should be organic. But how can organic diversity happen when there is active segregation and discrimination on mostly minorities?

So you are racially colour-blind. Why don't students in majority black or hispanic schools just do better at test scores so that they can join these better schools? Why do good schools have to accept underperforming kids? Oh wait that school is in a poorer area. It doesn't have the funding for better teaching and resources to help these minority kids out of there. It seems from evidence that getting schools more integrated doesn't come at the cost of white kids' test scores. Just because there are poorer or underperforming students in your mostly white class, doesn't mean they will drag down everyone else's scores. The opposite seems to happen, everyone's test scores go up.

School segregation is synonymous with housing segregation. These minorities are just unlucky that they live in the poorer areas. What if white people had to sacrifice a little so that schools could become desegregated? Minorities have sacrificed loads for ages. So you moved to a more affluent area just for the better schools and demand for your kid to be put in the best. Well, what about the minority kids? What did they do to deserve being in worse schools and areas?

A little sacrifice has to happen if diversity has to be put into action instead of just being a nice thought.

If you cant see it from the perspective of disadvantaged children, then that is pure selfishness and no empathy. Sorry but that makes you come off as just liberal/progressive in name only.

 

[Vishnoo]

As one of those tutors who primarily serves über-wealthy Upper East and Upper West Side kids I can tell you - not a single one of them attends a neighborhood public school. They are all in private schools (which are crazy small - 100-200 people per grade max) or one of the magnet public schools like Hunter, Stuyvesant, or Bronx Science. Those in regular public school are not the ultra wealthy and competition is cutthroat. My cousin, for instance, who has a 93 average in a public school, was not accepted into ANY public high school in NYC - think about that! So I'm not surprised that these parents are desperate to preserve as many spots as possible for their kids.

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Unless somethings changed drastically since 2004 you were pretty much guaranteed a spot to a highschool attached to your zipcode. Something seems off about her situation.

 

[entremet]

Unless somethings changed drastically since 2004 you were pretty much guaranteed a spot to a highschool attached to your zipcode. Something seems off about her situation.

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I'm thinking they're talking about the specialized high schools? NYC has a few them and some require tests.

 

[Pikachu]

I'm thinking they're talking about the specialized high schools? NYC has a few them and some require tests.

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I mean, most people don't get into those, so it shouldn't be that shocking. But specialized high schools are run separately. You apply to those and rank as many of them as you want but you also still do your list of 12 regular schools.

 

[entremet]

I mean, most people don't get into those, so it shouldn't be that shocking. But specialized high schools are run separately. You apply to those and rank as many of them as you want but you also still do your list of 12 regular schools.

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Yeah I know. I'm just trying to understand the confusion of that original post. Because it sounds unlikely.

 

[Davidion]

I'm thinking they're talking about the specialized high schools? NYC has a few them and some require tests.

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Right, that's what I thought as well, plus some of the other schools have special qualifiers. Your grade isn't the sole, or even main qualifier in those cases.

 

[PanickyFool]

I mean, most people don't get into those, so it shouldn't be that shocking. But specialized high schools are run separately. You apply to those and rank as many of them as you want but you also still do your list of 12 regular schools.

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The magnet schools go into their own can of worms over diversity.

 

[Pikachu]

The magnet schools go into their own can of worms over diversity.

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Yeah, it's a big thing, but sue me for being one of the people who thinks admissions shouldn't be changed. The test is the ultimate arbiter. There are literally hundreds of high schools in NYC with tens of admission standards - IMO these, like, eight schools don't need to be touched. (I say this as someone who didn't get in by one point on the test in 8th grade, and then in 9th grade got in by 20+ and turned it down.)

 

[entremet]

Yeah, it's a big thing, but sue me for being one of the people who thinks admissions shouldn't be changed. The test is the ultimate arbiter. There are literally hundreds of high schools in NYC with tens of admission standards - IMO these, like, eight schools don't need to be touched. (I say this as someone who didn't get in by one point on the test in 8th grade, and then in 9th grade got in by 20+ and turned it down.)

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Which school? Stuyvesant?

 

[Pikachu]

Which school? Stuyvesant?

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SI Tech.

 

[Davidion]

So you're a liberal or prorgressive white person and are pro-diversity or pro-integration. But you're not in favour of a mandate. Diversity shouldn't be forced on you, it should be organic. But how can organic diversity happen when there is active segregation and discrimination on mostly minorities?

So you are racially colour-blind. Why don't students in majority black or hispanic schools just do better at test scores so that they can join these better schools? Why do good schools have to accept underperforming kids? Oh wait that school is in a poorer area. It doesn't have the funding for better teaching and resources to help these minority kids out of there. It seems from evidence that getting schools more integrated doesn't come at the cost of white kids' test scores. Just because there are poorer or underperforming students in your mostly white class, doesn't mean they will drag down everyone else's scores. The opposite seems to happen, everyone's test scores go up.

School segregation is synonymous with housing segregation. These minorities are just unlucky that they live in the poorer areas. What if white people had to sacrifice a little so that schools could become desegregated? Minorities have sacrificed loads for ages. So you moved to a more affluent area just for the better schools and demand for your kid to be put in the best. Well, what about the minority kids? What did they do to deserve being in worse schools and areas?

A little sacrifice has to happen if diversity has to be put into action instead of just being a nice thought.

If you cant see it from the perspective of disadvantaged children, then that is pure selfishness and no empathy. Sorry but that makes you come off as just liberal/progressive in name only.

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This about says it all

 

[Carlius]

Ah yes,i remember going to york prep upper west side as a latino. Worst years of my life. Horrendous atmosphere.

 

[Deleted member 11262]

Henry Zymeck is a great dude. This world needs more people like him. Being able to feel empathy and standing up to societal inequities is just so incredibly rare unfortunately.

 

[Dropping Dimes]

So you're a liberal or prorgressive white person and are pro-diversity or pro-integration. But you're not in favour of a mandate. Diversity shouldn't be forced on you, it should be organic. But how can organic diversity happen when there is active segregation and discrimination on mostly minorities?

So you are racially colour-blind. Why don't students in majority black or hispanic schools just do better at test scores so that they can join these better schools? Why do good schools have to accept underperforming kids? Oh wait that school is in a poorer area. It doesn't have the funding for better teaching and resources to help these minority kids out of there. It seems from evidence that getting schools more integrated doesn't come at the cost of white kids' test scores. Just because there are poorer or underperforming students in your mostly white class, doesn't mean they will drag down everyone else's scores. The opposite seems to happen, everyone's test scores go up.

School segregation is synonymous with housing segregation. These minorities are just unlucky that they live in the poorer areas. What if white people had to sacrifice a little so that schools could become desegregated? Minorities have sacrificed loads for ages. So you moved to a more affluent area just for the better schools and demand for your kid to be put in the best. Well, what about the minority kids? What did they do to deserve being in worse schools and areas?

A little sacrifice has to happen if diversity has to be put into action instead of just being a nice thought.

If you cant see it from the perspective of disadvantaged children, then that is pure selfishness and no empathy. Sorry but that makes you come off as just liberal/progressive in name only.

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To me, it makes them come off as a parent.
What parent is going to disadvantage their own child to benefit another kid?

You want to make the statement that you're only liberal if you hurt your family to help others? That mindset pushes good people away from the cause.

Edit: I think it's a good idea, I'm not opposed to it in the slightest. I think that the parents shouldn't be hated on God their response though.
Many are putting 40%+ of their income in order to rent in these neighborhoods primarily for their children's future. They're not necessarily bad people. Imagine making a move like that, and finding out your child was one of the 25% who now won't get in. It would be devastating.

 

[Daschiel]

I'm sorry but when I applied for my kid we had to pick a dozen schools. I don't have any middle age school children but I'm sure rich White kids have options. This is the only good school within walking distance? If there's less seats for rich kids then its about time they work their asses off and earn something in life for once.

I was being a sarcasm. I'm aware of NYCs segregation.

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My apologies then.

 

[EdibleKnife]

To me, it makes them come off as a parent.
What parent is going to disadvantage their own child to benefit another kid?

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As already mentioned, the evidence literally shows that the idea that the children in the school somehow lose something by integration is a myth. There are parents all over that convince themselves of something entirely untrue just because of their warped perspective about how it'll "hurt" their own children without actually taking reality into consideration.

 

[Dropping Dimes]

As already mentioned, the evidence literally shows that the idea that the children in the school somehow lose something by integration is a myth. There are parents all over that convince themselves of something entirely untrue just because of their warped perspective about how it'll "hurt" their own children without actually taking reality into consideration.

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I edited my post to add more. I already said earlier in the thread that the underperforming kids can easily turn it around when in a better school with proper support.
Some of these parents won't even be able to put their kids into these schools if this goes through though. For every one in, there will be one out. Are those parents not allowed to be upset without being called fake liberals?

 

[Fulminator]

We put all the best magnet schools (which students have to apply to get into) in the poorest neighborhoods. This attracts affluent families to send their kids to these neighborhoods, bringing money with them. The best teachers want to work with the best students, so they all gravitate to these schools. The best part is that like half of the students at any school have to come from the local neighborhood, so underprivileged kids who normally couldn't apply into these sorts of schools still get to go to nice schools with lots of programs and great teachers. I might be getting some specifics wrong but this is generally the idea.

It's an awesome system so of course there are people trying to dismantle it.

EDIT: Other great things include the fact that we bus students from anywhere to anywhere if you get into a magnet program (parents might not let students apply to that really awesome school because they can't drop them off/pick them up that far away, removing that barrier) and they're moving towards making all meals free for all students (both helping all families and removing the stigma of being on free lunch).

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this sounds like a really good solution, better than the one that is being talked about in the article

 

[GuyIncognito]

Actions can be both in a person's self interest and racist. The intent does not distinguish itself from the outcomes.

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So a parent wanting the best for their kid and being upset about having to send their kid to a worse school is racist now? Some of the statements and labels being thrown around in this thread are absurd

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I think the anger comes from students being able to get into said schools without meeting the academic requirement. The principle makes a good point though, however surely the solution would therefore be to improve the standard of schooling in some of these other schools. Having a set of students competing hard to meet the academic requirements and another set not having to meet those requirements is only going to create friction.

 

[Prophaniti]

A lot of people choose where they live based on the schools and pay a lot of money in taxes as a result to fund those schools. It is absolutely natural and not the least bit surprising for parents to be furious at any decision which could compromise their kid getting into the school they want.

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Yeah I really don't understand the meltdown about it in this thread. I'd be furious if my kids didn't get into the school I moved into a neighbourhood for.

 

[PanickyFool]

So a parent wanting the best for their kid and being upset about having to send their kid to a worse school is racist now? Some of the statements and labels being thrown around in this thread are absurd

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The outcome is racist. Yes.

I am not assigning malicious intent.

The fact does remain that how society allocates schooling leads to racist outcomes. Fixing "their" schools does not actually improve outcomes. Integration has been shown to be the most effective means minimize racial outcome differences.

 

[Zoe]

As already mentioned, the evidence literally shows that the idea that the children in the school somehow lose something by integration is a myth. There are parents all over that convince themselves of something entirely untrue just because of their warped perspective about how it'll "hurt" their own children without actually taking reality into consideration.

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It's not the children who remain in the school who would get hurt. In all likelihood, these underperforming students would be in different class levels.

It's the well-performing students who get sent to other schools that might not be capable of serving the same level they were accustomed to.

 

[Red Cadet 015]

Lol. There's actually very little evidence that a well supported child going to a school with low test scores is significantly worse off. However, there is evidence that a not so well supported child going to a school with high test scores will do better because the teacher has plenty of time to help kids that are behind, and the kid's peers will exert some unconcious pressure for the kid to perform better. Basically, these parents are supporting white supremacy and don't really even understand how.

 

[Deleted member 36086]

I don't understand the rage these parents have. Research shows that integration helps higher and lower acheiving students. I'm glad the principal pointed out how utterly ridiculous these parents are being.

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Because these parents dont give a flying fuck about any kids other than their own. If the district said straight up seats in schools would be reduced by 25%, they'd be stabbing each other in the back to ensure their kid gets one of the coveted seats.

 

[nel e nel]

Only if people hear are making the claim that children who have lower acamedic ability are likely to be non-white. Not to imply they're being racist but I'm not American or from New York so access to good schools very well could have a racial factor and thus white children are more likely to have higher grades.

This isn't racism, it's classism. They don't want their children around poor kids, not minorites. Or, at lest it seems that way. They think lots of poor, dumb kids will come in and ruin their children's education.

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Race and class are so intertwined in the US you can't really have a conversation about one without the other.

Poverty rates affect black and Latino communities at a higher rate. Schools are funded by property taxes. So it's more often than not that black and Latino neighborhoods have underfunded schools, which leads to underperforming students.

 

[haimon]

I don't understand the rage these parents have. Research shows that integration helps higher and lower acheiving students. I'm glad the principal pointed out how utterly ridiculous these parents are being.

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If they are paying high taxes and chose areas for schools for thier kids and then 25% of the families will have thier kids sent to other schools, of course they will be upset.

I have kids and I live in an area with high municipal taxes. I pay them because I want my kids to have a good education. If they did not get that benefit I would not have moved here in the first place.

 

[Socivol]

If they are paying high taxes and chose areas for schools for thier kids and then 25% of the families will have thier kids sent to other schools, of course they will be upset.

I have kids and I live in an area with high municipal taxes. I pay them because I want my kids to have a good education. If they did not get that benefit I would not have moved here in the first place.

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From my understanding it seems like they would be putting kids from the same district in the schools so it wouldn't really matter. Wealth should not determine who gets to go to good public schools and who does not in the same school district. If they want to control the demographics of the schools their kids go to then they should put them in private school.

 

[Tiger Priest]

I'm thinking they're talking about the specialized high schools? NYC has a few them and some require tests.

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Wrong. Basic public school. Specialized is just based on SHSAT.

You rank your top choices and they are supposed to match you somewhere using your rankings. She got into 0 of her choices and they have not assigned her a school so they are now petitioning the city to assign her somewhere. Competition is fierce even for basic public schools so I'm unsurprised that people are up in arms that there are now even fewer spots available for qualified students.