Rockstar employees were working "100 hour weeks" for RDR 2 [UPDATE: Rockstar's response]
- Thread starter Odesu
- Start date
The days of the John Carmacks making Quake in their dorm rooms on home brew software are long dead.
Your perspective completely disregards things like publishing contracts and responsibility to shareholders.
Yeah it's horrible you become like a zombie, I was on contract from an agency so we got overtime pay but the was still poor.
Also no one at the company is going to talk about it because you have strict ndas that last a decade beyond you le employment.
Normal devs are salaried so I doubt they get anything extra other than keeping their job, ad others have said people are falling over themselves to work in the industry and even more so for a place as well known as rockstar.
What kind of work are you doing? Because there's a difference in working 14 hours a day for a week, and doing it for a year or longer. Especially for a video game.
Read the content of the post i replied too. They said about to remove crunch etc a dev cycle would need to go to 8 years etc and it wouldnt be cost efficient on studio for thst length.
So i said and the implications of it are. Stop doing cinematic games that try to chase movie industry with huge budgets and pushing graphics to extreme etc dial things back a bit so. So your studio isnt riding on this game being a big blockbuster. Less cost developing a game less expenses on studio. Less time making engine or time making game thus in somewhat will make games development shorter and crunch not as needed.
Ive already posted before in this thread how crunch is bad and shit needs to stop
Uhh youre doing something for humanity and good for you for doing it. They're making a video game and are basically slaves. It's just not really comparable. I'm sure they do want to make an amazing and immersive experience and they probably did. How many of them do you think want to do it in this manner though?
I see Rockstar Games haven't changed at all since the RDR1 controversy...
Awful stance and methods.
How the hell can you apologise this kind of crunch...?
Awful stance and methods.
You're one of the reasons working conditions get worse for everyone, congrats.
How the hell can you apologise this kind of crunch...?
you are on Resetera.. a place where MANY dream of working in the games industry. For many it is a childhood dream, and when an opportunity at one of the most renown companies knocks on your door, sure you will answer the door and follow your childhood dream.
By that time you have no idea how the work environment is.. and once you have started a job, you just don't stop it from one day to another.
Crunch is bullshit, it is a company abusing their power to get some work done that was badly managed in the first place.
Quote from this old story (2004) that made EA change their stance on crunch. Incidentally EA is now one of the best places to work in the video game industry.
These passionate people are being deliberatly abused because rockstar knows they can get away with it.
We need a rockstar_spouse if rockstar truly has terrible working conditions.
Normal people dont even know this things occur, they simply go to stores and buy games.
And even if they knew. People on ResetERA who know will still buy the game.
Unfortunately, there are still too many warm bodies that want to work on these games. So, that means everyone is replaceable, and if everyone is replaceable then everyone is expendable. I think the industry may require some kind of governmental intervention. I hate that the media I love relies so heavily on exploitation.
You can because working 14h on average per day is not healthy. It's messed up and not okay.
No one leave this person in charge of anything PLEASE.
Are you being serious?
Cos contrary to belief on the internet (inc. here) video games are not serious business.... Clean up after Hurricanes are serious business...
Your analogy is really bad.
Grinding Devs into the ground to ship a dumb video game isn't the same as people pushing themselves to make a difference after a natural disaster
I was nearing a burnout around 45 hours a week, and that's without communte time that took me 2+ hours from and back on a good day, if it rained or the bus didn't drive it was more. There was not much room nor energy to do anything else when finally home at the end of the day, I was lucky I still lived at home. I can't imagine working so much, getting home and having to care for a family or other social obligations.
They are not slaves. These are highly specialized individuals choosing to work for Rockstar Games. Crunch is shit but let's not go overboard here.
Consumers aren't responsible for businesses acting ethically.
I know you're joking, but this really does nail it for me. It's not enough that crunch is standard - Rockstar has to exacerbate the issue by running the most excessive production possible. This - these working conditions - are what I'm thinking of when they start talking about horse testicles or mud staying on your clothes.
That's fine if they do. Some value a lot of money for short term hurt.
All preferences, seems ridiculous to tell me to fuck off for being able to work like that?
True. Point I was trying to make is that there's a lot nasty stuff going on, and that people don't care for that.
Depending on the state, nobody has to pay you anything extra if you're "salaried." At that point, companies believe they own you and your skills and mind, so they're not paying for your time.
I guess you have more to lose working under 100 hour week than earning your paycheck. Getting overtime or not.
It's like property law being applied to people , right? There's another name for that.
Having worked in the games industry for about 20 years in the UK, in QA, crunch is nothing new. I did 100+ hour weeks back in the 90s, including some 24 hour shifts. I did get paid overtime though then.
I've also worked for some dev studios though that didn't pay OT as QA was considered part of Dev there, so did 80+ weeks for about 6 months on several projects and didn't get any paid overtime for them which is crushing. I did a 27 hour shift one time which was brutal, and only got paid for 8 hours. I left that place quickly.
I've also worked for some dev studios though that didn't pay OT as QA was considered part of Dev there, so did 80+ weeks for about 6 months on several projects and didn't get any paid overtime for them which is crushing. I did a 27 hour shift one time which was brutal, and only got paid for 8 hours. I left that place quickly.
There are some that think it's okay because of the team and project they're working on... how about fuck that and get treated better as employees and people instead of paid slaves?
Sorry, you're right they are not literal slaves at all. I wish I knew a better word to call it. It just sucks that they can get up and walk away, but at what cost to them/their families?
That's adorable and I don't mean this in jest.
Reality looks different just ask people working in the healthcare sector. I did my residency in Germany and I did more 80+ hours a week than not in six years.
If you care about this issue, you should consider not purchasing it or at least purchasing secondhand. Sales matter more than anything else, and good sales act to implicitly condone this behavior.
I know it takes immense man power and work hours to create Rockstar type games.
Considering video games are fucking difficult to make in the first place, the extremely detailed worlds Rockstar tend to create must be a nightmare to design, test and polish.
A better happy medium needs to be arrived at where we can get these awesome worlds but perhaps not at the cost of 100 hour work weeks.
The only way out of this imo is unionization.
But in this case we have consumers on Era who know the fucked up work hours and act horrified, only to be day one on RDR2.
It's just a bit weird.
As for me I make no bones about it, I know blood, sweat and tears went into the game and I'm happy playing it without depriving myself a potential generation defining title.
Selfish perhaps but true.
Considering video games are fucking difficult to make in the first place, the extremely detailed worlds Rockstar tend to create must be a nightmare to design, test and polish.
A better happy medium needs to be arrived at where we can get these awesome worlds but perhaps not at the cost of 100 hour work weeks.
The only way out of this imo is unionization.
But in this case we have consumers on Era who know the fucked up work hours and act horrified, only to be day one on RDR2.
It's just a bit weird.
As for me I make no bones about it, I know blood, sweat and tears went into the game and I'm happy playing it without depriving myself a potential generation defining title.
Selfish perhaps but true.
Unless you're being paid for that OT, you need to get a different job.
I was thinking this perception has to do with the demand and pursuit of hi-def graphics the consumer base expects in the video gaming industry.
Yeah I'm sure crunching is always voluntary and just a preference.
Well, you and me are here, on Resetera, and we do have a general idea of the work conditions on the videogame industry, right?. But ok, let's take the case of the naive guy who goes into the industry without knowing. You don't quit a job the first day unless something really awful happens, I accept that. But what about after the first month?, second month?, third month?. Once you are inside you talk with your coworkers and you learn that's how things are. If you accept the conditions and continue to work there it's because you think it's worth it. It's a choice. You may not agree with it but not everybody has the same life priorities.
I'm going to be honest. If I had the opportunity and the necessary skills (which I don't) to have an important job at Nintendo, Rockstar, Naughty dog or any of the other great devs, I would take it. Of course, I would complain to my friends about the long hours and earning less that I do now but it would be worth it. Just to be able to say that you took a part on making something like RDR 2, BOTW or TLOU 2. Something that is enjoyed and brings a smile to millions of people around the world. That matters. And I wouldn't like you or others to get angry on my behalf, because it would be my choice.
Really guys, shouldn't we be focused on improving work conditions for people who work awful, terrible paid jobs out of necessity instead of out of choice?.
They get fired if R* is in an at will state or moved to shitty positions/deps to punish them so they quit on their own
If they're salary, they're getting paid exactly the same amount of money had they only worked the normal 8 hours
Hard to do that when developers make it as hard as shit to do so.