• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
About 25 hours into Wizards & Warriors, this game is super awesome, the fact that nobody talks about it anymore and that it isn't available digitally is damn shame.

Honestly I think I like it more then Wizardry 8 at this point, we'll see how it goes as I progress but so far, so good.
I still need to play this. I played a a bit when it was new, but I couldn't really find my way into it. I re-bought it some time ago but never played it. Wizardry 8 is among the absolute best First-Person-CRPGs (together with Might & Magic 6) ever made. How high would you rank Wizardry 8 in your personal list?
 

Tebunker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,844
About 25 hours into Wizards & Warriors, this game is super awesome, the fact that nobody talks about it anymore and that it isn't available digitally is damn shame.

Honestly I think I like it more then Wizardry 8 at this point, we'll see how it goes as I progress but so far, so good.
I invariably install this every 5-6 years play till like the Pyramids, and then quit. I would love for an updated version or a remaster. I love these kinds of old school RPGs.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
I still need to play this. I played a a bit when it was new, but I couldn't really find my way into it. I re-bought it some time ago but never played it. Wizardry 8 is among the absolute best First-Person-CRPGs (together with Might & Magic 6) ever made. How high would you rank Wizardry 8 in your personal list?

Wizardry 8 is almost a brilliant game, but it has some of the most dull combat of any RPG ever made which really brings it down for me. The fights just take so damn long, but require so little mental effort to get through that it makes the game a real slog. Even with the wizfast mod running at 1000% speed a simple fight against some trash mobs can take like 30 minutes.

If Wiz 8 had fast combat like the rest of the series (and Wiz&War) I'd rank it as my second favorite behind 7, but because of the combat it's only above Wizardry 4 in my ranking of that series.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
Are Wizardrys and Might & Magics and such real time? I tried Legend of Grimrock all excited a while back just to find out it has this weird real-time combat system which I kinda disliked. I think I would've loved it if it had regular turn-based combat with regular attacks and spells and items to use and so on.
 

Deleted member 2102

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
692
Are Wizardrys and Might & Magics and such real time? I tried Legend of Grimrock all excited a while back just to find out it has this weird real-time combat system which I kinda disliked. I think I would've loved it if it had regular turn-based combat with regular attacks and spells and items to use and so on.
Not sure about Might & Magic, but Wizardy's a normal turn-based blobber.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
because of the combat it's only above Wizardry 4 in my ranking of that series.
That makes sense. Wizardry 4 is pretty short, the whole game is just that one room right?

I've only sampled Wiz 8 but Wizfast might just be the most necessary mod I've ever seen. I respect(?) anyone who managed to play through that vanilla.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Are Wizardrys and Might & Magics and such real time? I tried Legend of Grimrock all excited a while back just to find out it has this weird real-time combat system which I kinda disliked. I think I would've loved it if it had regular turn-based combat with regular attacks and spells and items to use and so on.
Might & Magic 3-5 are pure turn-based, in 6-8 you can change between realtime and turnbased, 10 is back to pure turn-based. Not sure about 9, but pretty sure it also has turnbased option.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
Are Wizardrys and Might & Magics and such real time? I tried Legend of Grimrock all excited a while back just to find out it has this weird real-time combat system which I kinda disliked. I think I would've loved it if it had regular turn-based combat with regular attacks and spells and items to use and so on.

Might and Magic 1 - 5 and X are strictly turn based. Might and Magic 6 - 9 are hybrids, you can freely switch between real time and turn based combat as you want.

All the Wizardry games are turn based.
 

Tebunker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,844
That makes sense. Wizardry 4 is pretty short, the whole game is just that one room right?

I've only sampled Wiz 8 but Wizfast might just be the most necessary mod I've ever seen. I respect(?) anyone who managed to play through that vanilla.

After like the 30th Bloodvines encounter or one where a group calls in help you just get exasperated.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
Might & Magic 3-5 are pure turn-based, in 6-8 you can change between realtime and turnbased, 10 is back to pure turn-based. Not sure about 9, but pretty sure it also has turnbased option.

Might and Magic 1 - 5 and X are strictly turn based. Might and Magic 6 - 9 are hybrids, you can freely switch between real time and turn based combat as you want.

All the Wizardry games are turn based.

Oh, nice. Both are household names in RPG discussions, but I've never played any of them. I've never seen anyone play them. I've never even been near them in any way.

But maybe I should fix that soon. What would be good starter games in both series for someone like me? Not a whole lot of blobber/dungeon crawler experience, and like I said, 0 with either series.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
Oh, nice. Both are household names in RPG discussions, but I've never played any of them. I've never seen anyone play them. I've never even been near them in any way.

But maybe I should fix that soon. What would be good starter games in both series for someone like me? Not a whole lot of blobber/dungeon crawler experience, and like I said, 0 with either series.

Might & Magic I'd start with 3, Wizardry... none of them are really beginner friendly, that's a series that goes out of it's way to crush the player beneath it's heel.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Oh, nice. Both are household names in RPG discussions, but I've never played any of them. I've never seen anyone play them. I've never even been near them in any way.

But maybe I should fix that soon. What would be good starter games in both series for someone like me? Not a whole lot of blobber/dungeon crawler experience, and like I said, 0 with either series.
I'd recommend starting with Might&Magic 6. It aged very well IMO. You can also try 3, but that's oldschool. Still very playable.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Based on my admittedly incomplete experience with Wizardry, you might be best off just starting at the first one.

The problem is that the next decent starting point is Wizardry 6 imo, at which point I think there's an assumption that you already have experience with the series going in.

Or I guess you could go straight to 7 or 8 and just disregard the fact that the trilogy starts with 6.

Also for Wiz 1-3, aesthetically and in terms of playability I actually like the SNES port the best overall. But it requires a fan translation.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
The PS1 versions of Wizardry 1 - 5 are really good too, they also have english built in, though you'll need to google the options to set in the menu to set them to english.
 

Tebunker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,844
Based on my admittedly incomplete experience with Wizardry, you might be best off just starting at the first one.

The problem is that the next decent starting point is Wizardry 6 imo, at which point I think there's an assumption that you already have experience with the series going in.

Or I guess you could go straight to 7 or 8 and just disregard the fact that the trilogy starts with 6.

Also for Wiz 1-3, aesthetically and in terms of playability I actually like the SNES port the best overall. But it requires a fan translation.
I also liked the Capcom port of Heart of the Maelstrom on SNES, but that game was still incomprehensible at times and hard as nails. Probably less so with save states and guides these days. What teenage me would have given up for that kind of stuff back in the early 90's.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
Cool, think I'm gonna flip a coin between M&M 3 and 6 and just... Try something with Wizardry lol. Thanks for the suggestions!
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,711
My nomination is Tale of Wuxia: Pre-Sequel

It would be cool to try out a Chinese rpg. It's available on Steam for €17. I haven't played it but I did play the other Tale of Wuxia game available on Steam. It's party based, turn-based combat on a hexagonal grid. It's fairly free-form in that you can visit different locations as you see fit. There's a world map to explore. If it's anything like the previous game, you can't recruit everyone and there are different endings.

Its weakness will be the translation.
Talking about chinese RPGs, has anyone here played The Gate of Firmament?

It looks interesting.

Faith of Danschant translation when
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Wizardry 8 is almost a brilliant game, but it has some of the most dull combat of any RPG ever made which really brings it down for me. The fights just take so damn long, but require so little mental effort to get through that it makes the game a real slog. Even with the wizfast mod running at 1000% speed a simple fight against some trash mobs can take like 30 minutes.
Wow,are you my brother in disguise? He said the same about the game after I recommended it to him. I was a bit sad because I LOVE the combat, lol. I really think it's among the best in the genre :D
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,024
Even with the wizfast mod running at 1000% speed a simple fight against some trash mobs can take like 30 minutes.

Is this.. An exaggeration?
1f914.png
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Is this.. An exaggeration?
1f914.png
I honestly can't remember ever fighting that long versus trash-mobs or even bosses. And I didn't use any mods.
But I know I restarted the game 20 hours in because my party felt so weak and slow. So maybe it's also a matter of party composition. Because my second party felt really strong and capable.

EDIT: And regarding Wizardry where to start. You should know that 6-8 form a Trilogy. I never played 6 (didn't age too well IMO. It's hard on the eyes). I only played a few hours of 7 and I finished 8. I certainly missed out on story-parts but it was still great fun.

I want to replay 7 though, because I think it's still a beautiful game. These 2D-graphics are timeless. IMO it looks even better than 8 - which is kinda ugly with those 3D-models.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,946
I need to get back into Chinese RPGs. About 10-15 years ago, I was studying Chinese pretty seriously and played a lot of older games, starting from the Legend of Sword and Fairy series, to Heroine Anthem and a few others. But I haven't really played anything released since then.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,969
South Carolina
I honestly can't remember ever fighting that long versus trash-mobs or even bosses. And I didn't use any mods.
But I know I restarted the game 20 hours in because my party felt so weak and slow. So maybe it's also a matter of party composition. Because my second party felt really strong and capable.

EDIT: And regarding Wizardry where to start. You should know that 6-8 form a Trilogy. I never played 6 (didn't age too well IMO. It's hard on the eyes). I only played a few hours of 7 and I finished 8. I certainly missed out on story-parts but it was still great fun.

I want to replay 7 though, because I think it's still a beautiful game. These 2D-graphics are timeless. IMO it looks even better than 8 - which is kinda ugly with those 3D-models.

Yeah, it's about circa 97/98-looking graphics, and yeah, even with Wizfast big parties are long fights if you won't/can't/shouldn't bomb with your mages, and yeah, the fact your party is a singular dot from which the camera pivots from means positioning is largely enemy-sourced with you hunting for doorways from which to initiate battle from, and yeah patrols are that bullshit flavor of visible ranbats, but maaaaaaaaaaan it does some real good stuff with questing, character building, world design, and general adventure goodness.
 

PixelParty

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
345
Does anyone have any recommendations for indie 2D rpgs on PC? Bonus points for lots of exploration.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
Does anyone have any recommendations for indie 2D rpgs on PC? Bonus points for lots of exploration.


UnderRail is absolutely phenomenal, though there is a large expansion in development so it might be worth waiting for that.


Lords of Xulima is another good one, basically a Might & Magic game but from an isometric viewpoint.
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
I started Comsic Star Heroine.
Haven't played it very much yet, but so far it's pretty good.
Gameplay is very promissing. It seems like a simple turn-based system, but there are several mechanic that you need to keep track of.
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,711
I started Comsic Star Heroine.
Haven't played it very much yet, but so far it's pretty good.
Gameplay is very promissing. It seems like a simple turn-based system, but there are several mechanic that you need to keep track of.
Cosmic Star Heroine is very good.
The Laura Shigihara song (it's the only one with vocals, you'll know it) is also really good.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,946
Interesting, I may look into this at some point. Would I lose online functionality?
...still on my way to HR999 in Monster Hunter 4 :S
I'm not sure. I remember hearing a few years back about some people getting banned, but it used to be common for a ton of people to share the same illegally downloaded ROM and that is supposed to be detectable, so those could be related. I personally don't play online, but I do use the eShop regularly and have never had an issue since I hacked my 3DS. If you want info specifically about that, you might want to ask on /r/3dshacks
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
Oh, I also got Xenoblade 2, but my gf has the switch right now, so I can't play it.
I will get it back once she is done with Odyssey and Kingdom Battle.
 

erd

Self-Requested Temporary Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,181
Heads up! Cutoff for nominations will be Saturday evening so get any others in if you haven't already.

Well, I was originally going to recommend Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, but:
  • Quite frankly, I doubt it stands much of a chance against the current lineup. Past votes seemed to indicate people prefer things that are relatively well known, and considering how much more popular the Ultima VII thread was compared to Glory of Heracles III it seems like well known things are much more popular. Which is pretty obvious when you think about it, and really isn't a bad thing at all - there's so many phenomenal games out there that, despite being well known, a lot of people haven't played yet. Ultima VII is a great example of that, and I really enjoyed going through it. With titles like Ys 1, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, Vagrant Story, and Gothic currently nominated I really doubt Devil Survivor would win. It's not particularly niche, and it has the SMT name behind it, but it doesn't seem to be all that popular of a game, despite being one of the best, most interesting SRPGs out there.
  • It's not as accessible as I'd like. Ultima VII was great because you could easily buy it on GOG and it would easily run on any computer. Devil Survivor needs a DS/3DS which isn't a huge deal, but might be too restrictive for some.
  • There was this thread that caught my eye recently. It's a pretty typical Japan vs the west style thread that's really not worth anyone's time, but it revealed that there's apparently a large amount of people who have never played a western game with good writing. At least one person from this thread even. Which is a bit saddening really, so why not try fixing that?
So I think I'm just going to nominate this instead:

Planescape Torment is definitely one of those games most people have heard of, but also one that's quite famous for the fact that almost no-one played it. So despite its popularity I feel it's enough of a "hidden" gem, especially in comparison to some other of the current nominations. It's also one of the most incredible games ever made, though I feel like that's common knowledge at this point, so I'll just add this: It might not look particularly inviting, but despite its looks it's very easy to get into, and it's not a hardcore game at all. It's also pretty good for a group play since the game is so imaginative and crazy that there's plenty to talk about. It's also easy to get on PC and mobile, so most people should have access to it.

And I also just really feel like replaying the game to be honest. It's been a while since I first played it and I wonder how I'd feel about it now.

Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone here has already played the game. Striking the balance between "well known enough for people to want to play it" and "so well known that everyone's already played it" is pretty hard.
 

Luminaire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,610
I've had this game for the longest time but never found the energy to play it. From what I can tell, in a nutshell it's a fairly simplistic 2D RPG with a dark and depressing story. Am I close?
It's very dark and depressing with a dry sense of humor. Combat is Earthbound-ish but you see your characters doing attacks. It's filled with horrible people doing horrible things, and the themes of the story are pretty messed up.

Exploration is 2D side scrolling with lots of verticality to it. The characters are rather humorous and it's a very emotional game that can make you laugh and then gut punch you thirty seconds later. There really is no good in the world of LISA, so it's best to be prepared going into that morally desolate wasteland.

It's worth a look.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
At least one person from this thread even.
I think I might have said that in that thread looking at it :P.

Part of my point iirc was that I don't know if I've ever played a game where the writing itself was good, period and I grew up on garbled translations so I was used to focusing beyond the text and upon underlying content.

But yeah, it'd be interesting to play a game with good writing perhaps. IDK. Beyond the video game thing I'm generally much more of an ideas person than a "how well is it expressed" person and good writing might just fly over my head.
 

erd

Self-Requested Temporary Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,181
I think I might have said that in that thread looking at it :P.

Part of my point iirc was that I don't know if I've ever played a game where the writing itself was good, period and I grew up on garbled translations so I was used to focusing beyond the text and upon underlying content.

But yeah, it'd be interesting to play a game with good writing perhaps. IDK. Beyond the video game thing I'm generally much more of an ideas person than a "how well is it expressed" person and good writing might just fly over my head.

You're in luck then, because Planescape is absolutely filled with great and unique ideas. I can think of very few games that are as interesting and imaginative as it is.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Striking the balance between "well known enough for people to want to play it" and "so well known that everyone's already played it" is pretty hard.
Yea this is difficult, mostly because of how subjective it is. Even looking at Ultima VII, that was a good pick considering how relatively few people on ERA seem to have played it, but at the same time CRPG veterans would say "nah U7 isn't even remotely 'hidden gem,' it's a classic."

This thread sprang up out of the discord lifeboat for the Essential RPG list and ultimately I think that list is the best litmus test for how well-known something is in this community, and how much of a "hidden gem" it is. If it made it on the list at some point then I consider it sufficiently well-known and played. So I would consider Planescape to be sufficiently well-known despite the fact that there are many members here who have never played it. On the other hand I would consider Ultima 7 more hidden because it never appeared on any version of the essential list iirc. And this is despite the fact that, on paper both of them are time-honored CRPG classics. Yet there is a tangible difference to me between how much Planescape is played in this community vs. Ultima 7. This ties into my belief that in this community, the absolute least-played major RPGs are CRPGs that pre-date the IE games of the late '90s.

That being said, I think it's ok for Planescape to be a nomination, ultimately the vote is the final determinant for what people consider to be an appropriate RPG to play through.

Also, re: Devil Survivor, I wouldn't worry too much about accessibility. I feel like requiring a 2DS/3DS is fine, sure it will restrict who can participate to an extent, but that will always be the case unless we just do a game available on PC over and over again, and even then some people won't have access to a PC that can run games decently.
 

erd

Self-Requested Temporary Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,181
Yea this is difficult, mostly because of how subjective it is. Even looking at Ultima VII, that was a good pick considering how relatively few people on ERA seem to have played it, but at the same time CRPG veterans would say "nah U7 isn't even remotely 'hidden gem,' it's a classic."

This thread sprang up out of the discord lifeboat for the Essential RPG list and ultimately I think that list is the best litmus test for how well-known something is in this community, and how much of a "hidden gem" it is. If it made it on the list at some point then I consider it sufficiently well-known and played. So I would consider Planescape to be sufficiently well-known despite the fact that there are many members here who have never played it. On the other hand I would consider Ultima 7 more hidden because it never appeared on any version of the essential list iirc. And this is despite the fact that, on paper both of them are time-honored CRPG classics. Yet there is a tangible difference to me between how much Planescape is played in this community vs. Ultima 7. This ties into my belief that in this community, the absolute least-played major RPGs are CRPGs that pre-date the IE games of the late '90s.

That being said, I think it's ok for Planescape to be a nomination, ultimately the vote is the final determinant for what people consider to be an appropriate RPG to play through.

Also, re: Devil Survivor, I wouldn't worry too much about accessibility. I feel like requiring a 2DS/3DS is fine, sure it will restrict who can participate to an extent, but that will always be the case unless we just do a game available on PC over and over again, and even then some people won't have access to a PC that can run games decently.

The thing is though, it doesn't only matter how well-known the game is in this thread, but outside of it as well. Well, It matters for the voting itself, obviously, but I really enjoyed the Ultima VII thread because it attracted a lot of people from outside this thread, which made it feel really lively - much livelier than the Glory of Heracles one. After all, Ultima VII only got 19 votes here (though I don't know the total number of votes, since it was multiple choice) and even fewer people actually played much of the game (which is to be expected, obviously - it's a pretty big time commitment). From that perspective, I quite like the idea of popular games winning the vote, since they expand the target audience.

I'll admit I forgot just how shockingly high Planescape ranked on that list though. I don't know if I'd nominate it if I remembered that.

I am quite curious about what people consider to be "too popular" though. The last vote showed there is relatively little interest for genuinely unknown things (poor Anvil of Dawn, not even a single vote). On the other hand, the current list is pretty packed with famous games and only has a couple of things that I'd really consider to not be well-known, so I'm curious what people will vote for.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
You're in luck then, because Planescape is absolutely filled with great and unique ideas. I can think of very few games that are as interesting and imaginative as it is.
Cool.

...

But yeah sometimes (often) I feel very dumb when it comes to aesthetics. Sometimes things just look/sound good to me and I have trouble interrogating that much further and distinguishing degrees of quality with much clarity.

Have a much easier time getting into narrative structure, themes, moral narratives, characters, etc. With these things I find opinions come to me more forcefully and are easier to articulate.

I don't think it is surprising then that I like DQ so much (or going back a page SMT) as at its heights it is really strong in at least these sorts of ways. (both are strong in other ways too :P)
 

Lucumo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
690
Finally finished Fallout 2, after sitting on it for around three weeks. Still not a fan of the setting. At least it had some nice moments, like when I punched some guy's eye out in the boxing ring in New Reno. Went a completely good route which pretty much gave me all the good endings. While it did have better scripting/events than the predecessor, it still had issues which the fan patch attempted to fix (there are still minor things left). The question is what to play next. Continue with Fallout Tactics into maybe Fallout: New Vegas to complete the series (3 and 4 don't count), when all the events that happened in the universe are still fresh in my memory? Or just play something else instead...mhm.
 

Deleted member 6137

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,386
Time to boot up Fallout: New Vegas in the near future.



This mod was previously titled Fallout: Project Brazil. It has voiced characters and several endings.

I've been searching for content mods for New Vegas and I remember this. Thought it was dead, though. Got to find more.

Maybe we could gamble on something like this for the rpg club in the some day.
 

Tebunker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,844
Hey all, I'll be closing nominations off at 12am EST (in 3 hours), so last call for them!
Dang, I missed this. Oh well I have three or four to nominate for next time, like Dark Messiah, Alpha Protocol, the earlier Mentioned Wizards and Warriors would be a good one, Anachronox and a newer one in Earthlock, as I don't think anyone really played this, it just got a big update, switch release and re-release on other platforms that fixed a lot of issues.

Looking forward to the final nomination list.