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Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,572
Remember when all of this was from the books people hold in such high regards. Lol

No. Try again.

Seasons 5 onward are poorly written fanfiction.

Homosexuality isn't even a taboo in the books.

Right? It's pretty telling how D&D insert all sorts of homophobia, constantly objectify women, and quadruple the amount of rape and misogyny in the series.

Loras, Renly, and Brienne are all three case studies in character assassination.
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
I don't get why but it seems after the author left the show HBO for some odd ass reason want to REALLY rush the final couple seasons, it makes no sense because it's such a huge show for them and makes them a ton of money so why rush the end of it? They could have easily stayed similar to the time/tone of the first few seasons and stretched the ending into another season or two and built up more things in the past two seasons that they glossed over or ignored by doing so.

Apparently too lazy to replace the dipshit showrunners. Which they absolutely should have done.
They basically got Qyburn to play Varys' role from the books and Cersei herself to do the rest.

I could see the Tyrells abandoning the Lannisters, leading to a sack of Highgarden nothing like what you see in the show. They could also just execute Margaery, which would break the alliance and lead to other stuff.

If you assume the show takes every book event George has laid out and constricts it, reinterprets it, or cuts it, we have to assume that the death of House Tyrell and King Tommen will happen gradually, piece by piece.

Sure, and Shireen may get burned alive in /some/ context, but it will not (it literally cannot) be anything like the show.
 

Setzer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
932
PNW
The show should really be at least ten seasons long to properly flesh out then plot and end the show.

This what baffles me. They could have easily done 2 to 3 more seasons to flesh out the story and fill in some major plot holes. It's not like the show isn't doing well for HBO. I guess they don't like money.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
I still can not get over how tame the reaction to Jon coming back is and little he changed...like what. I am expecting a completely different character after he comes back in the book, a man on mission completely focused and brutal in his decision making.

The show has lost all sense of actions having consequences. Season one still remains king, with the quality gradually getting worse bar some episodes here and there like Hardhome.
 

Typhoon20

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,568
Tyrions plan of getting one of the dead soldiers and bringing it to Cersei to persuade her to a temp truce was the point where I just couldnt even accept any form of logic. Something so illogical and out of character can ruin a season and/or show.
 

br0ken_shad0w

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Washington
I'll still watch it weekly, even though at this point I'm not really passionate about GOT/ASOIAF anymore. Though that's more to do with the lack of progress with TWOW and the chapters we did get from it were cut chapters from ADWD.

The time-skip would have been a better option imo even though I also agree with GRRM that it would have been a nightmare to actually write.
 

Typhoon20

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,568
I still love how in the span of 20 minutes, John is saved first by his aunt and then soon after by his uncle, and in the process his uncle dies and his aunt loses one of her kids. I'm sorry but the math tells me he isn't worth that level of loss, and that's before factoring in the kid his aunt loses ends up becoming a superweapon for the enemy.

Uhm Dany and Tyrion are to blame for both. I would say that Dany is the worst major character at this point. For the majority of S7 she behaved like a spoiled little child screaming '' me, me, me''. Tyrion came up with the stupidest idea ever that led to all of this. And Danys psychopathic obsession with the Throne and not believing Jon in the first place resulted in those things. Jon, Dany, Cersei. They all have plot armor. We knew they wouldn't be killed off until the last season. And I bet most of them ARE going to be killed off in the last episodes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
613
Oct 27, 2017
4,781
I'll still watch it weekly, even though at this point I'm not really passionate about GOT/ASOIAF anymore. Though that's more to do with the lack of progress with TWOW and the chapters we did get from it were cut chapters from ADWD.

The time-skip would have been a better option imo even though I also agree with GRRM that it would have been a nightmare to actually write.

This is where I am. I was really into ASOIAF for years, but now I'm kind of over it. I'll read the new book when it comes out, but I'm not really anticipating it like I have the previous books. And I loved the show at first, then hated it, but I got over it not being what I expected it to be and I can find enjoyment in its trashiness and immense stupidity.

If you'd have told me 10 years ago that I would be more excited for a continuation of the Karate Kid movies on youtube than the final season of an HBO show based on A Song of Ice and Fire, I would have laughed in your face.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,016
Uhm Dany and Tyrion are to blame for both. I would say that Dany is the worst major character at this point. For the majority of S7 she behaved like a spoiled little child screaming '' me, me, me''. Tyrion came up with the stupidest idea ever that led to all of this. And Danys psychopathic obsession with the Throne and not believing Jon in the first place resulted in those things. Jon, Dany, Cersei. They all have plot armor. We knew they wouldn't be killed off until the last season. And I bet most of them ARE going to be killed off in the last episodes.
To be fair it wasn't just Tyrion being stupid. Cersei and friends were everywhere at all times and could do no wrong. I don't understand why they first write her into a hopeless corner just to hand her nonsensical wins one after another.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
This is where I am. I was really into ASOIAF for years, but now I'm kind of over it. I'll read the new book when it comes out, but I'm not really anticipating it like I have the previous books. And I loved the show at first, then hated it, but I got over it not being what I expected it to be and I can find enjoyment in its trashiness and immense stupidity.

If you'd have told me 10 years ago that I would be more excited for a continuation of the Karate Kid movies on youtube than the final season of an HBO show based on A Song of Ice and Fire, I would have laughed in your face.

Karate Kid is legit. Season 2 when?
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,266
No. Try again.

Seasons 5 onward are poorly written fanfiction.



Right? It's pretty telling how D&D insert all sorts of homophobia, constantly objectify women, and quadruple the amount of rape and misogyny in the series.

Loras, Renly, and Brienne are all three case studies in character assassination.
Except all that stuff people were complaining about was in the books. You try again
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,619
All of Varys' actions are pointless without the golden company story line. So in the context of the show, allowing Ned to die was stupid.

Little finger also suffered for a lack of book material and Sansa's story suffered for being a Jeyne substitute.

LF and Varys start as the two most intriguing characters but end up underwhelming.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
But why is any of this happening? How does any of this have a cause and effect relationship? Why are there no consequence for any of this?

i hate to break it to you but Martin's books will probably be the same....and isn't that what ASOI&F is about and why people like it? That sometimes people (good or bad) die randomly but for seemingly no (good or bad) reason...i.e. just like the real world?

If you want a story that every villains got their due and every heroes got rewarded in the end, maybe Tolkien's will be the fitting story.

For me, i want to see Cersei sit on the throne while every stark children's dead by the end. But they probably won't be as they gotta think of the children audience.

Yes, you heard that right. I want to see the main bad guy win for a change instead of the typical heroes' triumph that's being perpetuating stories for MILLENNIAL.
 

SupremeWu

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
2,856
Tyrions plan of getting one of the dead soldiers and bringing it to Cersei to persuade her to a temp truce was the point where I just couldnt even accept any form of logic. Something so illogical and out of character can ruin a season and/or show.

Tyrion got jobbed to the point of hilarity, every piece of advice he gave was not only wrong but fundamentally stupid. Cersei will see reason and make nice, ever? Nope. The Lannisters still give a fuck about Casterly Rock enough to bait them into a trap? Hell nope. Don't use your dragons? So why have them.
 

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
10,305
The show's momentum really picked up. No one wants spinning tires so they've been dashing to the finish line not paying much attention to what breaks along the way. It still scratches the itch.
 

Sully

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
Him dying is not a surprise...it how it went down that made no sense. Arya and Sansa outsmarted him....LOL
I haven't read the books but the whole way that went down was soooo dumb. Like we are supposed to believe Arya and Sansa hate/distrust each other cause...reasons?
 

Ernest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,543
So.Cal.
So as the big climax and finale of game of thrones arrive soon, i did an entire season rewatch, I HAVE A MASSIVE PET PEEVE , it concerns the high sparrow and cersei arc
this fucking scene has no meaning in the end

so Cersei kills them all, slaughters, the sept full of commoners and royals, she is hated by everyone and suddenly no one cares, no comparisons to the mad king
no one saying how this could be lead to consequences
Because no one can prove it was her? She has plausible deniability.
I thought it was pretty cut & dry. *shrug*
 

Typhoon20

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,568
Tyrion got jobbed to the point of hilarity, every piece of advice he gave was not only wrong but fundamentally stupid. Cersei will see reason and make nice, ever? Nope. The Lannisters still give a fuck about Casterly Rock enough to bait them into a trap? Hell nope. Don't use your dragons? So why have them.

100% agree.
Tyrion was a great character but boy did they do him a disservice.

I still LOVE the show. But it's hard to overlook the glaring issues the show has with each season.

How about when Jon asks Benjen to come with him and he says '' There's no time''? He had plenty of time to get on that horse. All he had to say was' ' I can't' ' and I would have been ok with that scene but no time? Only takes 5 seconds to get on the horse. That whole Arya vs Sansa part was very weird as well at times. And how about Bran being super creepy to Sansa "It was beautiful that night," he says. "Snow falling, just like now. And you were so beautiful in your white wedding dress." I know he isn't really just Bran anymore but even for the Three Eyed Raven that's messed up to call the day your sister got raped as a beautiful day. S7 had a lot of great moments but some illogical WTF moments as well.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,577
i hate to break it to you but Martin's books will probably be the same....and isn't that what ASOI&F is about and why people like it? That sometimes people (good or bad) die randomly but for seemingly no (good or bad) reason...i.e. just like the real world?

If you want a story that every villains got their due and every heroes got rewarded in the end, maybe Tolkien's will be the fitting story.

For me, i want to see Cersei sit on the throne while every stark children's dead by the end. But they probably won't be as they gotta think of the children audience.

Yes, you heard that right. I want to see the main bad guy win for a change instead of the typical heroes' triumph that's being perpetuating stories for MILLENNIAL.
No. Martin deliberates on the consequences of nearly every action in his books.

E.g.: Dany burns the ruling class of Astapor, the city falls apart when she leaves. Dany strongarms Yunkai, they turn their fleets on her when Meereen is weak. Xaro is still giving her shit because she spurned him in Qarth. Jhaqo, Drogo's former bloodrider and the Khal who confronts Dany in ADWD/S5, has formed his own khalasar in the years after Drogo's death in AGOT/S1.

Martin agonizes over this shit. You can say whatever you want about the quality of the books, but these details do not escape him. He will, seemingly at random, inject catastrophic twists into his story, but those twists are always, always reckoned with. This is probably why the books have totally spiraled beyond his control. While Martin tries to navigate the weeds, D&D hack through them with a sword.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
All of Varys' actions are pointless without the golden company story line. So in the context of the show, allowing Ned to die was stupid.

Little finger also suffered for a lack of book material and Sansa's story suffered for being a Jeyne substitute.

LF and Varys start as the two most intriguing characters but end up underwhelming.

Yeah, LF basically ceased as a character after he left King's Landing. They gave him nothing, and the little they did give made him look like a monumental fucking idiot, not the Xanatos gambit character people liked on the show and in the books.

His death subsequently brought nothing as no one could possibly care about a non-character who became dumb after every scene. Because of this, Sansa and Arya earned no points at all for ending him. Literally zero.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,572
The faith militant stuff is just as bad in the book as it is in the show.

That's... not a response? It actually makes sense in the books, and there's no homophobia, because the Faith of the Seven isn't homophobic (and Westerosi society only cares about homosexuality insofar as it concerns their feudal primogeniture).

Not only did D&D caricature Loras (and Renly), where in the books they were three-dimensional and in a loving relationship, but they had Loras arrested on shoehorned homophobia after sleeping with a prostitute five seconds after his lover had died... as opposed to him joining the Kingsguard because "when the sun has set, no mere candle can replace it."

16-year-old Tommen failing to act as his adult wife is arrested in front of him is slightly different from 9-year-old Tommen being a malleable figurehead, and it only gets worse from there, culminating in the Sept explosion — or D&D writing off a bunch of characters as hastily as possible.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,104
Uhm Dany and Tyrion are to blame for both. I would say that Dany is the worst major character at this point. For the majority of S7 she behaved like a spoiled little child screaming '' me, me, me''. Tyrion came up with the stupidest idea ever that led to all of this. And Danys psychopathic obsession with the Throne and not believing Jon in the first place resulted in those things. Jon, Dany, Cersei. They all have plot armor. We knew they wouldn't be killed off until the last season. And I bet most of them ARE going to be killed off in the last episodes.
Dany's psychopathic obsession for the throne? Excuse me. If Dany was obsessed with the throne, she wouldn't have stayed in Mereen in order to insure the masters didn't retake it. If she was obsessed with the Throne, she wouldn't have allowed herself to be talked out of commiting to the quickest and most viable military manoeuvre to secure the throne. If she was obsessed with the throne, she wouldn't have risked everything to fly north to save Jon and his band of idiots. Jon and the North were not strategic pieces of hers that she needed to fight Cersei with.

The reason Tyrion suggested his dumb ass plan (that Jon and a bunch of other idiots agreed to), wasn't because Dany didn't believe Jon, but rather that even if she did, Cersei would attack from the rear the moment she moved her forces north. Have you forgotten who they were trying to convince with this bullshit plan to bring a zombie south? The goal was for Cersei to agree to a cease fire by showing her a zombie. Now of course Tyrion and Jon are stupid in thinking Cersei wouldn't stab them in the back anyways, but going beyond the wall had nothing to do with whether Dany believed Jon or not.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
i hate to break it to you but Martin's books will probably be the same....and isn't that what ASOI&F is about and why people like it? That sometimes people (good or bad) die randomly but for seemingly no (good or bad) reason...i.e. just like the real world?

If you want a story that every villains got their due and every heroes got rewarded in the end, maybe Tolkien's will be the fitting story.

For me, i want to see Cersei sit on the throne while every stark children's dead by the end. But they probably won't be as they gotta think of the children audience.

Yes, you heard that right. I want to see the main bad guy win for a change instead of the typical heroes' triumph that's being perpetuating stories for MILLENNIAL.
Nah, I think you made a bad read.

The consistent theme of ASoI&F, as I analyze it, is that the winner isn't about good or evil, it's about who's clever. The Starks constantly lose because they stick to the rules, and cheaters beat those who fight fair. Littlefinger was the entire personification of that, too.

Then you look at the show, and literally the entire remaining cast is just the idiots. Arya and Varys are the only ones with any brains, and one has been given plot armor to where you know she'll never lose a fight, and the other had his central storyline removed from the entire show and has no motivation. But the rest of the cast? Cersei, Jon, Dany, Clegane, Euron, Sansa--they're all blockheads by ASoI&F standards; and Tyrion apparently had a lobotomy for his decision making after S4.

GRRM's play was never about good triumphing over evil. It was about wit triumphing over muscle.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,893
The explanation is simple : the showrunners don't have the support of the books anymore. So they fuck things up to simplify their lives. At the expense of logic and quality.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,449
Remember when all of this was from the books people hold in such high regards. Lol
No it's not. This is a joke post right?
Except all that stuff people were complaining about was in the books. You try again
........Wait, you were serious?

None of this nonsense happens in the books. Loras is never arrested. Margaery is arrested for suspicion of adultery, not for knowing Loras has sex with men.

What on Westeros are you talking about?

constantly objectify women
So much this. The Sand Snakes are the most egregious examples, but the show also objectified Osha really badly, as well as numerous other minor characters, just for the gratuitous T&A. It's so tiresome and juvenile.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,266
No it's not. This is a joke post right?

........Wait, you were serious?

None of this nonsense happens in the books. Loras is never arrested. Margaery is arrested for suspicion of adultery, not for knowing Loras has sex with men.

What on Westeros are you talking about?


So much this. The Sand Snakes are the most egregious examples, but the show also objectified Osha really badly, as well as numerous other minor characters, just for the gratuitous T&A. It's so tiresome and juvenile.

It is all the same plot points with slightly different motivations. It drags the story to a halt in the books just like it does the show.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,095
I feel bad for all the people debating whether or not X or Y will happen in the books.

We'll probably never find out...
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
Game of Thrones is the Kobe Bryant of TV shows
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,086
My biggest problem with this is how wildly inconsistent it is with what happened at Highgarden, where Dany doesn't even learn about the attack until it's too late. Taking a fortified castle takes a long time. There should have been more than enough time to send a raven to Dany, so she could swoop in and save the day.
To be fair, it's established at some point (possibly books-only) that people tend to shoot down ravens during a siege.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
...You're gonna have to explain that to me cause all I can think of are inappropriate rape jokes.
>:O

it's wildly revered but everyone but its most dire fans acknowledge the last few seasons aren't it's best. as soon as it's over everyone will forget about it, and aside from the delusional stans people will forever omit it from top five GOAT lists and there will be contention as to whether it even belongs on that list at all. regardless of the merits of that conversation, we will all collectively agree to forget about the rap album associated with it

however i will concede that this analogy totally falls apart unless GoT totally sucks ass this season until the final episode, and then one side of the final battle completely gives up in order to give the winning side an artificially inflated body count