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Mocha Joe

Member
Jun 2, 2021
9,523
Quoted the relevant parts, its a pretty extensive article and worth reading the whole thing. Take with a grain of salt but I saw this yesterday and didn't see it posted here yet as a thread. There is some margin of error, which is mentioned in the author's analysis. But its got to be pretty close to the real number.

Data Sources, Caveats, & Methodology

The data used in this analysis is provided to The Game Post by Charlemagne, the Warmind of Discord, a third-party app that obtains it directly from Bungie's API for Destiny. How this works is that Charlemagne scans all unique Destiny profiles, which amounts to around 66 million, to track every account that has acquired the pre-order bonus emblems for the expansions. These emblems can only be acquired if a player pre-orders an expansion.

Important

That said, it's important to note that the data provided here may not be the exact representation of the official numbers as there are some limitations. For instance, Charlemagne cannot access the data of players who have set their profiles to private mode, which makes up approximately <1% (0.15%) of the total player base.
Additionally, the data does not reflect the pre-order emblems that are not acquired from the in-game vendors — Master Rahool, and Special Deliveries Kiosk As a result, there may be a difference between the numbers presented here and the official figures for the expansions.

We are comparing the pre-orders for four Destiny 2 expansions — Beyond Light, The Witch Queen, Lightfall, and The Final Shape. Let's take a look at the exclusive emblems available to players who pre-ordered any edition of these expansions.

The pre-order exclusive emblem for Beyond Light is called Beyond Light. For The Witch Queen, it is Lucidity. The exclusive emblem for Lightfall is Neomuna Nights, and for The Final Shape, it is Paracausal Path.

It's worth mentioning that the pre-order emblem for Shadowkeep Benighted Omen was only available with the Shadowkeep Deluxe Edition. Therefore, the data available for it is not as precise as that for the other expansions since the emblem wasn't included as a standard pre-order bonus with the Standard edition.

Comparing the Numbers: How Low Are The Final Shape Pre-Orders?

Based on The Game Post's analysis and data provided by Charlemagne on February 23, 2024, it seems that Beyond Light received the highest number of pre-orders among the four expansions. Lightfall follows in second place, with The Witch Queen in third place and The Final Shape having the lowest pre-orders.

To put this into perspective, Destiny 2's previous expansion, Lightfall, released in February 2023, has around 2.249 million estimated lifetime pre-orders, The Witch Queen, released in 2022, has 2.244 million lifetime pre-orders, and Beyond Light, released in 2020, has 3.189 million lifetime pre-orders.

Here are the estimated pre-order numbers for all four expansions based on our analysis:

  • Beyond Light: 3,189,075
  • The Witch Queen: 2,244,640
  • Lightfall: 2,249,679
  • The Final Shape: 407,601
analysis-d2-tfs-pre-orders-tgp-4-2048x1152.jpg

Worth mentioning that as of creating this thread, The Final Shape is #2033 in the Steam top sellers and #1416 in wishlists. Destiny in general is #68 in the Steam top sellers.

Marketing cycle hasn't kicked in since we are three months out but still, these are some pretty grim numbers. Especially when it was supposed to release this month. Lightfall / this year was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of the Destiny community. Seems like a lot of people are waiting, skipping the expansion and/or quitting the game.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,272
It is going to do fine. There is very little incentive to preorder it since the bonuses are not must have and with the delay many people's preorders were refunded. The long term players will come back for it since it is wrapping the story. What sort of long term engagement is it able to maintain is the real question.

No one in my raiding clan has pre-ordered but we have all put in our time off requests for day 1 raid weekend for example.
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
6,782
This is the first Destiny expansion I didn't pre order

Bungie has dropped the ball on Destiny, people are tired of doing the same thing year in year out. I think pvp support is only coming next month after years of stagnation.

Chances are I'll be there day 1, I've been there since the alpha, but I expect the playerbase to fucking tank after that. I don't think people will care about "episodes"

Make a Destiny 3
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,920
Using Charlemagne bot and emblems isn't 100% accurate but at least gives an idea on how sales are performing. But there are plenty of variants at play. I will 100% buy TFS but haven't pre-ordered yet.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,871
Didn't Lightfall already massively fail to meet expectations? Whoever at Bungie helped them secure their valuation during the acquisition was doing WORK
 
Nov 19, 2019
10,231
"Marketing cycle hasn't kicked in" is doing some fucking massive lifting here.

I could care less about Destiny but these comparisons are apples and oranges right now.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,898
Do they take into account that the expansion isnt out for another 3 months? Seems weird to compare like that when usually pre orders accelerate close to launch. You should compare how those expansion pre orders were doing circa November, not up to launch.
 
Jun 1, 2021
5,264
I'm fallen off Destiny 2 hard, but, surely people will start pre ordering the latest expansion closer to the time? I doubt it's as much of a disaster as this paints just yet.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,092
Without a comparison to other expansions at this point prior to release I don't think it means much. The Final Shape's numbers will probably decline from Lightfall, just due to the game's age if nothing else, but I doubt it will be anywhere near as steep as this would imply.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,485
Using Charlemagne bot and emblems isn't 100% accurate but at least gives an idea on how sales are performing. But there are plenty of variants at play. I will 100% buy TFS but haven't pre-ordered yet.

Yeah, I don't see a point in preordering TFS when it's six months out. I'll get to it when I get to it. Got other shit to spend my money on right now.
 

Vgorilla3774

Member
Sep 21, 2020
325
I cancelled mine. Lightfall was a big misstep, and seasons need a serious shakeup. The game just feels bland now, the treadmill is unrewarding, and their constant doubling-down on forcing pre-made groups for the best content have made the game harder to play over the years.

It feels a lot like they've placed their bets on Marathon, which feels like it may not pay off. They need to actually sell The Final Shape and they just…haven't!
 

joefro

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Jun 5, 2018
1,371
Louisiana
This is really grasping. Also, Lightfall had the best weapon in the game as a preorder bonus. The Final Shape's preorder weapon is dogshit in comparison.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,601
Brazil
I don't expect the figures to be precise but I'm not surprised. BL makes sense with Covid, WQ numbers make sense given the hit of sunsetting and vaulting from BL, LF numbers also make sense given WQ quality. This also gives context to the 45% miss… I doubt it was an astronomical projection, I just think LF has had a lingering effect over TFS in the same way previous expansions had on the next. Sucks for Bungie, but it's ultimately the consequence of what they decided to deliver with Lightfall and its campaign.

TFS will underperform regardless of the next 3 months and Bungie will have more layoffs. If the expansion is good enough, the effects will only be seen in a year or two.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,379
I don't know if this is a statement to the quality of the game, just that it's been going for so long. I personally can't imagine myself playing the same game for so long, they just need to move on to the next thing. Marathon will probably still be a hit.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,920
This is really grasping. Also, Lightfall had the best weapon in the game as a preorder bonus. The Final Shape's preorder weapon is dogshit in comparison.
I was gonna mention that. Quicksilver is a top tier Exotic, specially with Strand builds. Tesselation on the other hand...
 

Syinn

Member
Jun 14, 2021
506
Lots of reasons for that im sure but I'd say majority of the fan base has moved on, D1 was 2014. D2 2017. Only the hard-core have lasted this long.

I loved 1&2 but life and responsibility meant I couldn't play as much as I use to, it's not a game you csn take lots of breaks to and still enjoy IMO. Once weapon crafting came in I was done altogether.


Maybe the numbers will up closer to release but they should've dine D3 a long time ago.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,458
Im sure most preorders are just prior to launch. Unless you have data supporting 3+ months out with apples to apples not sure what this really tells you.
 

Remnants

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 18, 2019
810
If the expansion were coming out tomorrow this would be news worthy. This far out the numbers are gonna be low.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,613
Can we wait until there are some real numbers? Folks love to bury Destiny. Yet it keeps kicking on even if Final Shape is its last gasp in the short term.
 

FullWalter

Member
Mar 13, 2018
446
I don't think Bungie realized just how disastrous Lightfall's campaign and story was for the entire Destiny franchise as a whole. I was VERY invested in the game from Beyond Light up through the seasons that preceded Lightfall. Took multiple days of PTO for both the Witch Queen and Lightfall launches. I was raiding every weekend and reading lore on Reddit and listening to Byf, Mylin and EvanF videos on my commute daily.

Lightfall communicated so clearly that the story was being made up as they go, that anything could be retconned and that Bungie would retcon to meet financial plans - it completely evaporated the passion I had for the game and I haven't completely a season since the one that launched with Lightfall. This feels like Lost (the TV show) levels of dissatisfaction. I just completely fell off of the game and I can confidently say that it was Lightfall's campaign/story that made me all but drop the game for the past year.

I do have The Final Shape pre-ordered myself, mostly because I've played every campaign since D1 launch and at my most engaged I was raiding and completing season passes - I feel like I have to see this story through. But does it surprise me that a community felt like in the wake of Lightfall that none of the lore actually matters and that the integrity of the world that Bungie built with Destiny was disregarded by the company that created it? No, I'm not surprised at all.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,272
Lots of reasons for that im sure but I'd say majority of the fan base has moved on, D1 was 2014. D2 2017. Only the hard-core have lasted this long.

I loved 1&2 but life and responsibility meant I couldn't play as much as I use to, it's not a game you csn take lots of breaks to and still enjoy IMO. Once weapon crafting came in I was done altogether.


Maybe the numbers will up closer to release but they should've dine D3 a long time ago.
They set their peak player count during the most recent expansion, fyi. Unfortunately for Bungie it didn't lead to long term sustained engagement in the way they would have wanted since the quality wasn't as good as Witch Queen, but the player base has shown growth.
 

Faith

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,884
UK
Maybe it would be better to just wait until Final Shape is actually close to releasing? There is zero reason to preorder so early.

This is just clickbait shit and I say this as somebody who won't be getting final shape until it's deeply discounted.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,318
Unblock Deck compatibility and I might consider catching the sickness again 💀
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,343
I'm gonna get TFS + Season Pass a week before it launches.

Shouldn't have any problem logging into the game, since it is dead, nobody plays it and it's going to be delisted by the end of June or whatever narrative is going to get pushed in the following months in the D2 drama channels. That said, I don't blame for people being on the fence after Lightfall. The entire experience aside from the Strand subclass was pretty fucking bad.
 

Hero Prinny

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,192
Im interested but im definitely not pre ordering. Outside of the new power introduced (which apparently is just cut content from witch queen), lightfall was really bad imo. I'll wait for release and if its more like witch queen, I'll pick it up.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,346
This is a game that got numbers heavily skewed due to Covid and is now having a savage readjustment.
 

Kongroo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,980
Ottawa, Ontario, CA
This is what sucks about live service games. All the content is just made for people who actively play the game.

A sequel is much more conductive to making it so those of us who want a fresh jumping in point can play your game.
 

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
I would assume they'll pick up once we get to see more of what's going on with TFS, but yeah, it's hard to deny that Destiny 2 is in a rough, rough spot.

I really want this one to do well. Despite Bingie's terrible leadership, Destiny 2 is one of my favorite shooters of all time, and I want it to succeed.
 

greetdeath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
707
Yeah, they're not fooling me again. Lightfall was absolute trash and I haven't touched Destiny since. I previously had bought, and pre-ordered, every single Destiny expansion on both Xbox & PC.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,343
Can't help but think of the "tough" times ahead for content creators, D2 related or not. How many times can they spin the "Destiny is deaaaaaad" narrative since we're still like three months away from the release date?

Bungie really fucks up a lot, but content creators are eating pretty well for such a bad, horrible, failed game that should die in order for Destiny 3 to thrive. It's mindblowing.
 

DC5remy

Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,658
Denver co
Why would they expect high pre orders on a super far out delayed game? Plus, anyone that's joined this game lately knows how confusing and hard to follow it is.

They need a restart IMO. Let this one die.
 

Vincent4756

Member
Oct 27, 2017
544
My pre-order was refunded and I still have the items. I don't need to pre-order again till closer to Launch.
 
Feb 16, 2022
14,825
That's definitely a combination of various factors

1. Lightfall numbers were HUGE, especially coming off the Witch Queen year, and iirc LF had been their highest pre-orders for the franchise
2. The past year has been marred with negative news for them, worst of which was the layoffs
3. What they've shown of Final Shape has been frankly shit, and this is coming from a big "defender" of the game
4. The delay means the marketing hasn't been out in full force

Of course it doesn't paint a pretty picture. Would be surprised if it had.
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
6,782
IIRC lightfall sold fantastically, but micro transactions revenue "failed to meet goals" in the months after.
That's because the hype for Lightfall was huge but what we were delivered was a hot mess and engagement went off a cliff. When that happens the micro transactions take a dive as well. (Granted the MTX in Destiny were never great and I feel like way behind industry standards)