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EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,749
Even the US provides "just" more long-range air defense missiles instead of another battery.

Maybe there are not enough long-range air defense missiles available to keep more air defense batteries in constant operation and no one wants to speak out on that.
That would actually make more sense then just ignoring Ukraines begging for more batteries while pointing out some possible risks.

Beside available stockpiles there doesn't seem to be "much"
...
The company (Raytheon) is producing roughly 20 missiles a month ...
Four NATO countries — Germany, Romania, Spain and the Netherlands — are coming together to buy 1,000 PAC-2 GEM-T missiles and will do a large amount of production in those countries, primarily Germany. ... to reach (a worldwide production total of) 35 missiles a month by the end of 2027...


I guess SAMP-T (Aster) missile production is not even reaching 20 per month.
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2019
7,534
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If you worry about tit for tat, the tit has already happened, even before the tat.

Putin signed a decree transferring the Russian subsidiaries of Bosch and Ariston to the Gazprom subsidiary Gazprom Household Systems.
 
Nov 23, 2019
7,534
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Nov 23, 2019
7,534
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"Landesverräter" means traitor and it is a fitting term, but their revelations are even worse. The far-right AfD not only takes money from Russia and China, their manifest was even written in Moscow.

1.5 years ago the Russian government was developing a strategy paper how the AfD can get votes in Germany. The core method was to saw division and hate, exactly what the AfD is doing. Top members were caught using the content of this manifest, almost word by word.


View: https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1784125060858479092


apnews.com

German lawmakers assail far-right party over alleged China, Russia links following spying arrest

The German government and opposition lawmakers have assailed the far-right Alternative for Germany for its alleged closeness to Russia and China after an assistant to a legislator for the party was arrested on suspicion of spying for Beijing.
 
Nov 23, 2019
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threadreaderapp.com

Thread by @RALee85 on Thread Reader App

@RALee85: Some thoughts about the supplemental bill. This is good news, but it will primarily help Ukraine defend in 2024 and into 2025. Russia will still likely make further gains this year, and it doesn't fix all...…

The bill and first PDA aid package announced this week will provide a quick boost to Ukraine's defenses. But it is important to keep in mind that the limitations aren't just appropriated funds but also production capacity and size of stockpiles. Greater artillery ammunition deliveries will help reduce Russia's 5-6:1 artillery advantage, but it will not give Ukraine parity.
The PDA package will also provide other critical ammunition like anti-tank mines and Javelin/TOW ATGMs. Recent Russian advances have demonstrated that increased numbers of FPVs cannot replace artillery, mines, and ATGMs. Russia's assault on Vuhledar in 2023 and Ukraine's offensive last summer demonstrated how effective mines can be for defending forces.


Air defense is another critical Ukrainian need. Russia has resumed its missile campaign against Ukrainian energy infrastructure and UMPK glide bombs, which played a key role in Russia's seizure of Avdiivka, are a serious problem. More recently, Russian Su-25 attack aircraft have been operating closer to the front than normal, which indicates a lack of SHORAD and MANPADS.
The USAI package announced today includes Patriot and NASAMS missiles and the PDA included Stinger MANPADS and RIM-7/AIM-9M missiles reportedly for FrankeSAM systems. Stingers could help push Su-25 further from the front line, and Patriots are critical both for defending cities and infrastructure from Russian ballistic missiles and also to counter Russian Su-34 bombers that drop UMPK glide bombs.

Even with increased ammunition deliveries/expenditure, Ukraine might not be able to hold Chasiv Yar and other of these towns/cities, and Russia faces more favorable terrain once they get past Chasiv Yar, which could lead to an increase in the rate of advance. If Chasiv Yar falls, it will also put Ukrainian positions south of the city at risk. This is true for further Russian advances elsewhere. The delays in aid/mobilization have been costly.
If Ukraine can stabilize the front and fix the manpower situation in 2024 when Russia has a number of advantages, 2025 could be more favorable because Western production capacity will increase and Russian equipment losses could become a greater issue. If the manpower situation does not improve, then the second half of 2024 will likely be more difficult for Ukraine than the first half.
 
Nov 23, 2019
7,534
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View: https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1784132682399592778

It will take time to recover from the difficult first months of this year, and then more before Ukraine starts to benefit fully from new supplies of equipment and from increased European and US production of artillery shells. Fresh units need to be trained and there are still command issues left over from last year's disappointing counteroffensive, notably about how to co-ordinate large-scale operations. Though the Ukrainian armed forces do not want to completely cede the initiative, and want the Russians to start worrying about their own positions rather than focus on how best to attack those of Ukraine, it is going to be some time before they will have the strength to start liberating substantial amounts of territory.
Last year's counteroffensive was advertised well in advance, and Russia was surprised neither by its direction nor by its timing. Ukrainian forces suffered as a consequence. Kyiv might face pressure to have serious military gains to show in time for the November elections in the US to help justify the assistance, but it dare not allow its next major push to conclude with meagre results. It still needs to husband resources because it cannot be sure of future levels of support, especially if Donald Trump wins the presidency. Apart from his legal troubles, one explanation for Trump's staying relatively silent as Congress agreed on the new support is that he would not be able to accuse Biden of wasting money on Ukraine if it was not there to waste.
For now, Ukraine's best way of keeping up the fight against Russia is to carry on with the sort of attacks it has been mounting regularly of late. These have used long-range drones against oil refineries and other targets with some strategic value in Russia. Ukraine won't be able to use the long-range ATACMS missiles, or the extra Storm Shadow cruise missiles promised by Sunak in Warsaw this week, to attack targets in Russia proper. However, there are many military-related targets available in occupied Ukrainian territory, including Crimea.

It will become harder for Vladimir Putin to see how he can bring the war to an early conclusion, which was certainly his hope before the vote in Congress. He might have hoped that the loss of a big city such as Kharkiv would push Ukraine into a downward spiral. Now we return to the prospect of a never-ending war. True, Putin has prepared for this. But the scale of recent Russian losses for limited gains, and the embarrassment of not being able to stop Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory, means that he still lacks an obvious route to victory.
Even if Trump wins the presidential election in November, that does not guarantee Putin a satisfactory outcome. Trump will want to push his peace plan but, from what has been reported, Putin will find the details as unacceptable as will Zelenskyy. Having publicly boasted for the past six months that Russia had seized the initiative in the war, Putin must now contemplate the possibility that it might yet again swing towards Ukraine.
 

Arilian

Member
Oct 29, 2020
2,366
Are you really trying to tell me that France will position all of its long-range air defense batteries around the Olympic games to be secure against ballistic missiles ?
I just telling you that games will also take place outside of Ile de France and could require more SAMP-T systems than the one you decided should be enough.

Like I said, it's just a guess on my part, informed by a couple of facts:
- SAMP/T systems were used in the past to protect events in France, so it would not be surprising to see them deployed to protect the biggest event happening this year in France.
- Macron is going all-in regarding the Olympic Games, hoping to take advantage of them, which means others French politicians will try to use the situation against him (to, as an example, say that Macron is weakening France security by sending costly systems at a time of heightened tension, etc).
- On the subject of cost, I shared an article by Le Monde a couple of weeks ago showing that funding the 3 billions announced for this year was becoming a funding nightmare (deficit is bigger than thought, bumbling ambition for 2027 by Bruno Le Maire, etc).
 

Steeven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,445
Long but important thread by Rob Lee. Long story short: Ukraine will probably lose Chasiv Yar and surrounding territories, but it will cost Russia. Much is to blame on the delayed aid but also due to manpower shortages.


View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1783972910333407356

Ukraine has had three main problems since Russia seized the initiative in October: ammunition, manpower, and fortifications. Ukraine is making progress building fortifications and multiple defensive lines, but defenses on many of the key parts of the front are still underdeveloped, contributing to Russian advances. 2/

The bill and first PDA aid package announced this week will provide a quick boost to Ukraine's defenses. But it is important to keep in mind that the limitations aren't just appropriated funds but also production capacity and size of stockpiles. Greater artillery ammunition deliveries will help reduce Russia's 5-6:1 artillery advantage, but it will not give Ukraine parity. 3/

The PDA package will also provide other critical ammunition like anti-tank mines and Javelin/TOW ATGMs. Recent Russian advances have demonstrated that increased numbers of FPVs cannot replace artillery, mines, and ATGMs. Russia's assault on Vuhledar in 2023 and Ukraine's offensive last summer demonstrated how effective mines can be for defending forces. 4/

Further deliveries of armored vehicles will also be important. Many Ukrainian brigades don't have sufficient armored vehicles, and combat losses often aren't replaced. This leads to higher casualties. Bradleys are very popular, armored humvees will help, and further M113 would be very useful for CASEVAC. 5/

Air defense is another critical Ukrainian need. Russia has resumed its missile campaign against Ukrainian energy infrastructure and UMPK glide bombs, which played a key role in Russia's seizure of Avdiivka, are a serious problem. More recently, Russian Su-25 attack aircraft have been operating closer to the front than normal, which indicates a lack of SHORAD and MANPADS. 6/

The USAI package announced today includes Patriot and NASAMS missiles and the PDA included Stinger MANPADS and RIM-7/AIM-9M missiles reportedly for FrankeSAM systems. Stingers could help push Su-25 further from the front line, and Patriots are critical both for defending cities and infrastructure from Russian ballistic missiles and also to counter Russian Su-34 bombers that drop UMPK glide bombs. 7/

The question is whether production of these missiles is sufficient to meet Ukraine's continued air defense needs over time, especially with increased Russian production of Shahed UAS and missiles. F-16 fighters and their airbases will be another priority target for Russian missiles that will require air defense coverage. It also depends how successful the various FrankenSAM programs prove to be. 8/

Manpower has become the most pressing issue though, which was exacerbated by reduced deliveries of ammunition and equipment over the winter. Ukraine's summer offensive primarily culminated when it ran out of infantry, and Ukraine has struggled to replace combat losses since then. 9/

This means that Ukrainian brigades are understrength, and Ukraine lacks sufficient reserves to respond to Russian advances, so units are pulled from one part of the front to attempt to stop advances elsewhere. Ukrainian infantry need to be rotated more often or there will be a growing risk of exhaustion. 10/

Ukraine has passed a new mobilization bill that provides incentives for volunteers and increases the pool of men available to be drafted. Hopefully, this will improve the manpower situation, but it will take time to mobilize and train soldiers/units. 11/

More concerning is that the manpower issue has been known for some time, but has not been fixed. The longer it takes to improve the manpower situation, the less likely it becomes that Ukraine can conduct a offensive in 2025. The new NATO-trained/equipped brigades last summer did not have enough time to train together, and Russian defenses will still be strong. New soldiers/units need to be mobilized to replace current losses and trained for 2025. 12/

At the same time, one of the most important factors in the war last year was that Russia was able to significantly improve its manpower situation, recruiting more than 300,000 volunteers. 13/

It isn't just involuntary mobilized soldiers and prisoners, they are mostly getting volunteers who are willing to go into costly assaults. The quality, of course, varies, but the quantitative advantage is a serious problem. 14/

Without this manpower advantage, Russia's artillery and airpower advantage would not be sufficient for Russia to make gains on the battlefield. The relative manpower situation is likely the most important factor that will determine the war's trajectory, particularly if Russia can sustain recruiting 20-30k a month. 15/

The immediate problem is that Russia continues to advance on the battlefield, and has reached important locations while Ukraine faced ammunition shortages. Russia is bringing up reserves to Chasiv Yar, and will likely soon begin an assault on the city. 16/

Russian forces are also expanding their foothold in Ocheretyne, which threatens Ukrainian positions nearby, and they have advanced into Krasnohrivka and have made recent gains on the Marinka-Novomykhailivka front. 17/

Even with increased ammunition deliveries/expenditure, Ukraine might not be able to hold Chasiv Yar and other of these towns/cities, and Russia faces more favorable terrain once they get past Chasiv Yar, which could lead to an increase in the rate of advance. If Chasiv Yar falls, it will also put Ukrainian positions south of the city at risk. This is true for further Russian advances elsewhere. The delays in aid/mobilization have been costly. 18/

If Ukraine can stabilize the front and fix the manpower situation in 2024 when Russia has a number of advantages, 2025 could be more favorable because Western production capacity will increase and Russian equipment losses could become a greater issue. If the manpower situation does not improve, then the second half of 2024 will likely be more difficult for Ukraine than the first half. 19/

This bill will be vital, but it needs to be part of a broader long-term strategy for Ukraine. Western countries need to consider how to help Ukraine compensate for Russia's current advantages, including increased deliveries of long-range missiles. 20/
 
Nov 23, 2019
7,534
RRT4 ▶︎▶︎▶︎

View: https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1784157184047161444

GMKcLJyXkAAg2Qv


GMKgKf5W8AEH9HC
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,749
I just telling you that games will also take place outside of Ile de France and could require more SAMP-T systems than the one you decided should be enough.

Like I said, it's just a guess on my part, informed by a couple of facts:
- SAMP/T systems were used in the past to protect events in France, so it would not be surprising to see them deployed to protect the biggest event happening this year in France.
- Macron is going all-in regarding the Olympic Games, hoping to take advantage of them, which means others French politicians will try to use the situation against him (to, as an example, say that Macron is weakening France security by sending costly systems at a time of heightened tension, etc).
- On the subject of cost, I shared an article by Le Monde a couple of weeks ago showing that funding the 3 billions announced for this year was becoming a funding nightmare (deficit is bigger than thought, bumbling ambition for 2027 by Bruno Le Maire, etc).

Well, lets hope after the closing ceremony of this big event more French long-range air defense can save some lifes and infrastructure in Ukraine.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,030
Long but important thread by Rob Lee. Long story short: Ukraine will probably lose Chasiv Yar and surrounding territories, but it will cost Russia. Much is to blame on the delayed aid but also due to manpower shortages.


View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1783972910333407356

Ukraine has had three main problems since Russia seized the initiative in October: ammunition, manpower, and fortifications. Ukraine is making progress building fortifications and multiple defensive lines, but defenses on many of the key parts of the front are still underdeveloped, contributing to Russian advances. 2/

The bill and first PDA aid package announced this week will provide a quick boost to Ukraine's defenses. But it is important to keep in mind that the limitations aren't just appropriated funds but also production capacity and size of stockpiles. Greater artillery ammunition deliveries will help reduce Russia's 5-6:1 artillery advantage, but it will not give Ukraine parity. 3/

The PDA package will also provide other critical ammunition like anti-tank mines and Javelin/TOW ATGMs. Recent Russian advances have demonstrated that increased numbers of FPVs cannot replace artillery, mines, and ATGMs. Russia's assault on Vuhledar in 2023 and Ukraine's offensive last summer demonstrated how effective mines can be for defending forces. 4/

Further deliveries of armored vehicles will also be important. Many Ukrainian brigades don't have sufficient armored vehicles, and combat losses often aren't replaced. This leads to higher casualties. Bradleys are very popular, armored humvees will help, and further M113 would be very useful for CASEVAC. 5/

Air defense is another critical Ukrainian need. Russia has resumed its missile campaign against Ukrainian energy infrastructure and UMPK glide bombs, which played a key role in Russia's seizure of Avdiivka, are a serious problem. More recently, Russian Su-25 attack aircraft have been operating closer to the front than normal, which indicates a lack of SHORAD and MANPADS. 6/

The USAI package announced today includes Patriot and NASAMS missiles and the PDA included Stinger MANPADS and RIM-7/AIM-9M missiles reportedly for FrankeSAM systems. Stingers could help push Su-25 further from the front line, and Patriots are critical both for defending cities and infrastructure from Russian ballistic missiles and also to counter Russian Su-34 bombers that drop UMPK glide bombs. 7/

The question is whether production of these missiles is sufficient to meet Ukraine's continued air defense needs over time, especially with increased Russian production of Shahed UAS and missiles. F-16 fighters and their airbases will be another priority target for Russian missiles that will require air defense coverage. It also depends how successful the various FrankenSAM programs prove to be. 8/

Manpower has become the most pressing issue though, which was exacerbated by reduced deliveries of ammunition and equipment over the winter. Ukraine's summer offensive primarily culminated when it ran out of infantry, and Ukraine has struggled to replace combat losses since then. 9/

This means that Ukrainian brigades are understrength, and Ukraine lacks sufficient reserves to respond to Russian advances, so units are pulled from one part of the front to attempt to stop advances elsewhere. Ukrainian infantry need to be rotated more often or there will be a growing risk of exhaustion. 10/

Ukraine has passed a new mobilization bill that provides incentives for volunteers and increases the pool of men available to be drafted. Hopefully, this will improve the manpower situation, but it will take time to mobilize and train soldiers/units. 11/

More concerning is that the manpower issue has been known for some time, but has not been fixed. The longer it takes to improve the manpower situation, the less likely it becomes that Ukraine can conduct a offensive in 2025. The new NATO-trained/equipped brigades last summer did not have enough time to train together, and Russian defenses will still be strong. New soldiers/units need to be mobilized to replace current losses and trained for 2025. 12/

At the same time, one of the most important factors in the war last year was that Russia was able to significantly improve its manpower situation, recruiting more than 300,000 volunteers. 13/

It isn't just involuntary mobilized soldiers and prisoners, they are mostly getting volunteers who are willing to go into costly assaults. The quality, of course, varies, but the quantitative advantage is a serious problem. 14/

Without this manpower advantage, Russia's artillery and airpower advantage would not be sufficient for Russia to make gains on the battlefield. The relative manpower situation is likely the most important factor that will determine the war's trajectory, particularly if Russia can sustain recruiting 20-30k a month. 15/

The immediate problem is that Russia continues to advance on the battlefield, and has reached important locations while Ukraine faced ammunition shortages. Russia is bringing up reserves to Chasiv Yar, and will likely soon begin an assault on the city. 16/

Russian forces are also expanding their foothold in Ocheretyne, which threatens Ukrainian positions nearby, and they have advanced into Krasnohrivka and have made recent gains on the Marinka-Novomykhailivka front. 17/

Even with increased ammunition deliveries/expenditure, Ukraine might not be able to hold Chasiv Yar and other of these towns/cities, and Russia faces more favorable terrain once they get past Chasiv Yar, which could lead to an increase in the rate of advance. If Chasiv Yar falls, it will also put Ukrainian positions south of the city at risk. This is true for further Russian advances elsewhere. The delays in aid/mobilization have been costly. 18/

If Ukraine can stabilize the front and fix the manpower situation in 2024 when Russia has a number of advantages, 2025 could be more favorable because Western production capacity will increase and Russian equipment losses could become a greater issue. If the manpower situation does not improve, then the second half of 2024 will likely be more difficult for Ukraine than the first half. 19/

This bill will be vital, but it needs to be part of a broader long-term strategy for Ukraine. Western countries need to consider how to help Ukraine compensate for Russia's current advantages, including increased deliveries of long-range missiles. 20/

They would need to take this quick in my view because hot spots are going to get artillery shells first and this is one of them. Over the next two months, Ukraine is going to see a big uptick in shell availability that is probably going to catch the Russians by surprise since they aren't used to it for the last 6 months.

Due to its height, this area also makes great Javelin firing positions as well so we'll see. Rob has always been too bullish on Russian capability in my view.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,491
FIN
I wonder if Russians are generally aware of numbers like this.

Surely even if it's hidden or obfuscated, there must be an awareness among families about the number of men that aren't coming home.

Russia pulls a lot of the men that are sent into Ukraine from very remote locations of Russia. That way people in population centers like Moscow wont pay attention and more importantly outside of those towns and villages no one really knows. There has been some cases here and there of mothers demanding to know where their sons are etc., but nothing bigger hasn't come from those to hit wider awareness of Russians.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,422
I wonder if Russians are generally aware of numbers like this.

Surely even if it's hidden or obfuscated, there must be an awareness among families about the number of men that aren't coming home.
A lot of them seem to be russian minorities so i reckon while the local communities know the regime will be quite successful in hiding those deaths from the russian public.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,900
Russia pulls a lot of the men that are sent into Ukraine from very remote locations of Russia. That way people in population centers like Moscow wont pay attention and more importantly outside of those towns and villages no one really knows. There has been some cases here and there of mothers demanding to know where their sons are etc., but nothing bigger hasn't come from those to hit wider awareness of Russians.
It's not just remote areas, they also target ethnic and religious minorities for conscription. The point being, "It's happening to them and not to me."
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,717
It's not just remote areas, they also target ethnic and religious minorities for conscription. The point being, "It's happening to them and not to me."
Two attempted ethnic cleansings / genocides at the same time. Putin is by far the most evil fucker of our lifetime. I feel like most people don't really understand that that is going on here.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,958
Belgium
Belgium announced it will deliver the first f-16's this year. It was normally scheduled to start next year when the f35's arrived.
It also pledged 200million anti air.

This is important because we habe elections in june, and we are traditionally very slow in forming new governments due to the complexity of our country and no new budgets are approved in the period in between.


 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,228
This is important because we habe elections in june, and we are traditionally very slow in forming new governments due to the complexity of our country and no new budgets are approved in the period in between.

A bit OT, but didn't Belgium not have a government for a non-insignificant amount of time recently ?